Nature of Reality

[tks]

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In the last century there are handful of scientific breakthrough that over time have had given rise to technological progress that has been truly dramatic in addition to uncovering what the nature of reality itself is.

These include:

1. Theory of Relativity - General and Special Relativity which fundamentally altered the scientific view of space and time (and in my view bringing them more in alignment with Vedantic notions of space and time. )

Space and time were found to be not absolute quantities, If a person were to travel at a very high speed (fraction of speed of light ) and came back within 15 minutes of travel such a person would find that all people had even aged by 50 years, many even passed away thought this person had aged only 15 minutes during the travel. This startling view of space and time is verified every day in atomic reactors

2. Equivalence of Mass and Energy

3. Nature of reality as described by a field called quantum mechanics. All semiconductors and IT revolutions happened as a result of basic understanding of this reality. However Quantum Mechanics asserts that until something is measured state of object measured is not known. There is a famous mental experiment called 'Shrodinger cat' conceived to explain the apparent absurdity of what Quantum Mechanics asserts.

These are well known over 100+_ years. The two pillars namely General Relativity and quantum Mechanics have not been unified even today to show that they arise from the same underlying reality yet.

In fact Einstein was not able to buy into the Quantum Mechanics and proposed a paradox (and thought experiment) to show how it will violate the understanding of reality stated by Theory of Relativity..

In 1964 a person by name Bell described an experiment to validate this paradox which is about action at a distant between two entities instantly even if they are apart billions and trillions of miles apart. This would violate the assertion of the Theory of relativity that no information can travel faster than light,

This experiment was shown to work proving action at a distance some years ago.

A more direct verification of this experiment took place recently and an article appeared in NY Times this week about this experiment which I will copy and paste in the next post.

 

[tks]

Sorry, Einstein. Quantum Study Suggests ‘Spooky Action’ Is Real.

Source:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/22/s...t-said-to-prove-spooky-interactions.html?_r=0




In a landmark study, scientists at Delft University of Technology in the Netherlands reported that they had conducted an experiment that they say proved one of the most fundamental claims of quantum theory — that objects separated by great distance can instantaneously affect each other’s behavior.





The finding is another blow to one of the bedrock principles of standard physics known as “locality,” which states that an object is directly influenced only by its immediate surroundings. The Delft study, published Wednesday in the journal Nature, lends further credence to an idea that Einstein famously rejected. He said quantum theory necessitated “spooky action at a distance,” and he refused to accept the notion that the universe could behave in such a strange and apparently random fashion.




Bas Hensen, left, and Ronald Hanson helped show that objects apart can instantly affect each other. Credit Frank Auperle/Delft University of Technology

Einstein was deeply unhappy with the uncertainty introduced by quantum theory and described its implications as akin to God’s playing dice.

But since the 1970s, a series of precise experiments by physicists are increasingly erasing doubt — alternative explanations that are referred to as loopholes — that two previously entangled particles, even if separated by the width of the universe, could instantly interact.

The new experiment, conducted by a group led by Ronald Hanson, a physicist at the Dutch university’s Kavli Institute of Nanoscience, and joined by scientists from Spain and England, is the strongest evidence yet to support the most fundamental claims of the theory of quantum mechanics about the existence of an odd world formed by a fabric of subatomic particles, where matter does not take form until it is observed and time runs backward as well as forward.

The researchers describe their experiment as a “loophole-free Bell test” in a reference to an experiment proposed in 1964 by the physicist John Stewart Bell as a way of proving that “spooky action at a distance” is real.
“These tests have been done since the late ’70s but always in the way that additional assumptions were needed,” Dr. Hanson said. “Now we have confirmed that there is spooky action at distance.”


According to the scientists, they have now ruled out all possible so-called hidden variables that would offer explanations of long-distance entanglement based on the laws of classical physics.
The Delft researchers were able to entangle two electrons separated by a distance of 1.3 kilometers, slightly less than a mile, and then share information between them. Physicists use the term “entanglement” to refer to pairs of particles that are generated in such a way that they cannot be described independently. The scientists placed two diamonds on opposite sides of the Delft University campus, 1.3 kilometers apart.
Each diamond contained a tiny trap for single electrons, which have a magnetic property called a “spin.” Pulses of microwave and laser energy are then used to entangle and measure the “spin” of the electrons.


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[sravna]

Dear Shri TKS,

I think both relativity and Quantum mechanics reflect truth. Since both have empirical support the paradox has to be resolved at a higher level.On the surface, it seems relativity brings out the illusory aspect of nature, by showing that space and time are not absolute , quantum mechanics on the other hand gives glimpse into the interconnectedness of reality showing the real aspect of nature.

Our vedas can be used to study this angle in depth and maybe resolve paradoxes between the two very important works in physics.

 

[sangom]

In my humble view, "Reality" is what is made to appear before our senses, mind and intellect, by that Superior Force which manifests as Life. Once Life is transcended (if that is possible at all!) all this reality will vanish and whatever remains will be that Superior Force which, perhaps, our Acharyas perceive/denoted as the "Brahman". Hence, matter getting a steady form only when it is observed, gels with the above view. Science, let us hope, cracks this problem successfully one day!

 

[auh]

Space and time were found to be not absolute quantities, If a person were to travel at a very high speed (fraction of speed of light ) and came back within 15 minutes of travel such a person would find that all people had even aged by 50 years, many even passed away thought this person had aged only 15 minutes during the travel. This startling view of space and time is verified every day in atomic reactors

I may not know much physics as you obviously do but the above seems a little jarring:

1) if a person travels in space for 15 minutes (of our time) and returns, how can it be that he is aged less than any of the mortals in the earth? Does the body recognize the difference in space and function accordingly?

2) if it is space time (I don't know if such a thing exists), then again all that happens is that the person travels at an incredible speed and returns during the time interval. How can he age at a different rate from the rest? Is there something that is not explained?

Regards,

 

[sravna]

I may not know much physics as you obviously do but the above seems a little jarring:

1) if a person travels in space for 15 minutes (of our time) and returns, how can it be that he is aged less than any of the mortals in the earth? Does the body recognize the difference in space and function accordingly?

2) if it is space time (I don't know if such a thing exists), then again all that happens is that the person travels at an incredible speed and returns during the time interval. How can he age at a different rate from the rest? Is there something that is not explained?

Regards,

The idea is time perceptibly slows down when you are travelling at high speed. That is, an event which would take a certain duration of time now takes longer to complete. That would explain why the body ages slower.

But that is only in thought. I have a problem with that. At very high speed, I think matter would begin to disintegrate and when one is travelling at a speed approaching that of light, he would be shred to pieces . Definitely not look younger I suppose.

Any thoughts on the above?

 

[tks]

Dear Shri TKS,

I think both relativity and Quantum mechanics reflect truth. Since both have empirical support the paradox has to be resolved at a higher level.On the surface, it seems relativity brings out the illusory aspect of nature, by showing that space and time are not absolute , quantum mechanics on the other hand gives glimpse into the interconnectedness of reality showing the real aspect of nature.

Our vedas can be used to study this angle in depth and maybe resolve paradoxes between the two very important works in physics.

Sri Sravana,

There are no issues at Paramarthika truth expounded by Vedanta.

In vyvaharika world, these two theories need to be resolved in a rigorous manner for anything useful to be achieved.

 

[tks]

In my humble view, "Reality" is what is made to appear before our senses, mind and intellect, by that Superior Force which manifests as Life. Once Life is transcended (if that is possible at all!) all this reality will vanish and whatever remains will be that Superior Force which, perhaps, our Acharyas perceive/denoted as the "Brahman". Hence, matter getting a steady form only when it is observed, gels with the above view. Science, let us hope, cracks this problem successfully one day!

Our senses and intellect are also part of nature and not outside of it.
There is no vanishing of reality, but vanishing only of ignorance.
Superior force whatever it may be does not exist because all that exists is Brahman only.

 

[tks]

I may not know much physics as you obviously do but the above seems a little jarring:

1) if a person travels in space for 15 minutes (of our time) and returns, how can it be that he is aged less than any of the mortals in the earth? Does the body recognize the difference in space and function accordingly?

2) if it is space time (I don't know if such a thing exists), then again all that happens is that the person travels at an incredible speed and returns during the time interval. How can he age at a different rate from the rest? Is there something that is not explained?

Regards,

I gave that example to show that basic quantities such as Time are not absolute though in our day today life we take then as such (and it is valid). Time itself slows down and the experience of a person traveling fast is that only few minutes have elapsed for them and in other place elapsed time is of the order of years.

This is counter intuitive and challenged the scientists about basic notions of space/time/mass etc but measurements at atomic levels confirm the accuracy of this theory. In fact there was even an experiment to directly verify time dilation in the 1970s. If one is not baffled by this theory or of quantum mechanics it means they do not understand ( a modified quote of Bohr )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yirQ4YXZZVk

 

[tks]

The idea is time perceptibly slows down when you are travelling at high speed. That is, an event which would take a certain duration of time now takes longer to complete. That would explain why the body ages slower.

But that is only in thought. I have a problem with that. At very high speed, I think matter would begin to disintegrate and when one is travelling at a speed approaching that of light, he would be shred to pieces . Definitely not look younger I suppose.

Any thoughts on the above?

Nothing disintegrates high speed. Things disintegrate during acceleration only since force is required. I used a made up example to illustrate how our understanding of time does not jive with what is known from rigorous science.

If one were to travel in space acceleration will have to be lot less and it may take a while to reach speeds comparable to speed of light and such technologies do not exist right now.

 

[auh]

I gave that example to show that basic quantities such as Time are not absolute though in our day today life we take then as such (and it is valid). Time itself slows down and the experience of a person traveling fast is that only few minutes have elapsed for them and in other place elapsed time is of the order of years.

This is counter intuitive and challenged the scientists about basic notions of space/time/mass etc but measurements at atomic levels confirm the accuracy of this theory. In fact there was even an experiment to directly verify time dilation in the 1970s. If one is not baffled by this theory or of quantum mechanics it means they do not understand ( a modified quote of Bohr )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yirQ4YXZZVk

I find it difficult to type from a smartphone and will respond to the above, and that of Sravns's, next week...

Cheers

 

[yesmohan]

" Reality and truth " are all within the man; It could not be traced by searching around or at space by travelling in an imaginary time-machine, at a speed which is greater than that of light.

 

[sravna]

Nothing disintegrates high speed. Things disintegrate during acceleration only since force is required. I used a made up example to illustrate how our understanding of time does not jive with what is known from rigorous science.

Dear Shri TKS,

I stand corrected. It is during acceleration that disintegration happens.

 

[Jaykay767]

First off, the origin of Space time continuum comes from the Vedic ages. Haven’t we all heard that 1 day in Brahma lokam translates to many centuries/years for the humans in Bhulokam ?

Einstein obviously came up with the space time continuum based on the various Vedic stories of people living in different planes/worlds with different time scales not to mention immortality – ageless body & timeless mind.

Isnt it surprising that people come back with the same concept 1000s of years later as in today & regurgitate the same with some facny title as theory of relativity.. LOL !!

Objects at vast distance an instantly affect each other is no big shakes either. Don’t we know if we keep thinking about someone for long, they start thinking about us even if separated by continents? so how come people can think of each other without any medium of communication. So the key is the human consciousness, that’s why there is so much focus in our philosophical texts.

Clearly human consciousness can affect each other at vast distances & there is a universal consciousness to which all our consciousness connects to at a sub conscious level. So all past, current & future events are preserved in this universal mind/consciousness or otherwise known as Akashic records. Haven’t our ancestors talked about tapping into the universal consciousness/mind/akashic records to know the future events & there by affecting them by intervening in the present ?

Vedic Religion/Culture was/is the pinnacle of truth & knowledge and in it is the “secret of life”, though they dramatized into common stories for people to follow.

 

[Jaykay767]

To my knowledge, the only thing our Vedic texts are completely silent on, is the ability to travel back in time, but they talk extensively about different timescales in different worlds, immortality, ageless body, timeless mind, etc..

So even if one can travel beyond speed of light, it may not be possible to travel back in time & affect the past event/s.

 

[renuka]

To my knowledge, the only thing our Vedic texts are completely silent on, is the ability to travel back in time, but they talk extensively about different timescales in different worlds, immortality, ageless body, timeless mind, etc..

So even if one can travel beyond speed of light, it may not be possible to travel back in time & affect the past event/s.

One does not have to travel beyond the speed of light to travel "back" in time.

Our mind stores all data of all past events including previous lives..so no need to break the light speed barrier..one just needs to hack into the memory data bank.

But even then of what use is it to even travel back in time or tap into the past? No use.

 

[zebra16]

Our mind stores all data of all past events including previous lives...

What is the use of storing data when it can not be retrieved when necessary?

 

[renuka]

What is the use of storing data when it can not be retrieved when necessary?

The data that is usable has been stored in basic instinct mode..that can be used and retrieved anytime.

 

[Vaagmi]

அடடா, வந்துட்டாருப்பா வந்துட்டாரு நம்ம அறிவுக்கொழுந்து, இந்த இணையதளத்து நாட்டாமை a-TB.

அவரு ஒரு தரம் சொன்னா நூறு தரம் சொன்னா மாதிரி தான்.

எல்லாரும் ஒப்புக்கொள்ளுங்கப்பா அவரு சொல்லுறத. அவரு தீர்ப்பு சொல்றதுல அனுபவமுள்ள எலி, சாரி புலி புலி.

யாராச்சும் ஏ நாட்டாம தீர்ப்ப மாத்தி எளுதுன்னு சொன்னீங்கன்னா நாட்டம என்ன செய்வாருன்னு சொல்ல முடியாது. சொல்லிப்புட்டேன்பா. சாக்கிரத.

LOL.

 

[a-TB]

அடடா, வந்துட்டாருப்பா வந்துட்டாரு நம்ம அறிவுக்கொழுந்து, இந்த இணையதளத்து நாட்டாமை a-TB.

அவரு ஒரு தரம் சொன்னா நூறு தரம் சொன்னா மாதிரி தான்.

எல்லாரும் ஒப்புக்கொள்ளுங்கப்பா அவரு சொல்லுறத. அவரு தீர்ப்பு சொல்றதுல அனுபவமுள்ள எலி, சாரி புலி புலி.

யாராச்சும் ஏ நாட்டாம தீர்ப்ப மாத்தி எளுதுன்னு சொன்னீங்கன்னா நாட்டம என்ன செய்வாருன்னு சொல்ல முடியாது. சொல்லிப்புட்டேன்பா. சாக்கிரத.

LOL.

What reality are we in, O, Lord!
Your devotee thought he surrendered to you but ended up surrendering to Theeppori Munisami instead . Now he talks like him .. Help Narayana

LOL LOL

 

[yesmohan]

Coming back to reality, if there are two TBs in a place there would be three contradictory opinions. It is the reality.

 

[tks]

I find it difficult to type from a smartphone and will respond to the above, and that of Sravns's, next week...

Cheers

Sri auh,

I assume your queries are resolved by now since you have not responded for a while


All - Topics of this kind are normally not subject to opinions (it would be like saying "in my opinion I will fall if I jump from a tree") .

Topic area is concrete and subject to scientific methods. In addition the established fields have yielded applications that have changed life of human beings.

The underlying reality as understood today and is foundation of many technological application is indeed baffling. If one is not astonished about these findings they do not understand the area and may need more background and preparation. In any case one needs to be committed to understanding how nature reveals itself.

There are many stories - science fiction, religious scriptures including Puranas that have nothing to do with the material of the first two posts.

Human beings are endowed with faculty of imagination which may have some value I suppose though I have no interest in them.

Only those Puranic stories whose symbolism have strong correlation with underlying reality as described in Upanishads and subject to understanding (and hence validation) have any usefulness. All others are probably distortions and are no different than stories like those that appear in Arabian Nights.

I will ask Sri Praveen to close this thread at this point.