No party can change quota policy, says Modi

[prasad1]

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At his poll meeting at Naubatpur in Patna, the last on Sunday, Prime Minister Narendra Modi broke his silence on the issue of reservation, saying no party today could afford to make any change in the reservation policy enshrined in the Constitution.
He said that on this issue, he was with Nitish Kumar, Lalu Prasad and other leaders. “There will be no change in the reservation policy that Babasaheb Ambedkar espoused in the Constitution… In fact, no party today can afford to make any change,” he said. “Rights given by Babasaheb Ambedkar for the socially backward classes will never be taken away by my government … ” Mr. Modi said.

In the States where the BJP was in power quotas had not been tampered with, he said.

“I’ve been Chief Minister of Gujarat for 15 years… We’ve government in Madhya Pradesh, Rajasthan, Maharashtra, Haryana and in other States as well but nowhere reservation has been touched.”
Striking a personal note, he said: “Sometimes I wonder had Babasaheb Ambedkar not been there, what would have happened to Narendra Modi, who was selling tea in trains in his childhood.”

http://www.thehindu.com/elections/b...ota-policy-says-modi/article7803696.ece?w=spa


So the claim that we will change the "reservation" regime is shattered once for all.

 

[sangom]

So the claim that we will change the "reservation" regime is shattered once for all.

I will not trust these hindutwa spokesmen on anything. Modi has seen his fortunes in Bihar taking a nosedive and that is the reason for this announcement and may be, more to follow. Once the gullible public are taken in by these and vote for BJP, then you will see the "fireworks starting" as one hindutva troll wrote in the post!

We need not be surprised if Modi goes to a Muslim majority constituency and placates them saying that killing cows and eating beef are a must for development!

 

[CHANDRU1849]

NDA is in confusion mode in Bihar. The statement of a RSS spokesperson regarding reservation, which is deliberate or not, embarrassed the NDA leaders. They are searching suitable words to off-set the statement.

 

[Brahmanyan]

I am not in favour of continuing Reservations and Quotas for any reason. Such a vast number of Castes and Communities, quota will never succeed in its aim. Only parameter for successful Governance is efficient Administrators. Any form of protection beyond a brief period will harm natural growth.

Similarly it is my view that doling out freebees will kill the initiative of human endevour to earn their living.

Let us look into the words of Mr S S Gill, Secretary of Mandal Commission says in his Article under caption: "What Mandal Really Wanted":

"Nobody seems to be raising the basic issue: Why do we still require the crutch of reservations to enable students from the deprived sections to stand on their feet even 60 years after Independence?"

In his writeup he further says:
"During its discussions the Commission was fully aware that reservations were only a palliative, and 27 per cent reservation in educational institutions and government jobs was only one of several recommendations. Briefly, the other important recommendations were: the radical alteration in production relations through progressive land reforms; special educational facilities to upgrade the cultural environment of the students, with special emphasis on vocational training; separate coaching facilities for students aspiring to enter technical and professional institutions; creation of adequate facilities for improving the skills of village artisans; subsidised loans for setting up small-scale industries; the setting up of a separate chain of financial and technical bodies to assist OBC entrepreneurs."

For full article please open the following web-link:
http://www.outlookindia.com/article/what-mandal-really-wanted/230916



Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

This is how reservation system works in India.

As long as castes like yadavs, kurmis, vanniyars, thevars etc torment dalits, reservation will continue for castes like yadvas, kurmis, vanniyars and thevars.

So it is a self sustaining system and cannot be removed.

The supporters of this system may not fret!

 

[renuka]

I feel having a reservation policy is not beneficial in the long run cos the best of brains from any community can go untapped.

The country will lose out its full potential eventually.

These days when education is stressed as important for every community almost everyone from any community is scoring high marks and doing well in studies..no one single community dominates anymore.

So why have a reservation based on caste/community when everyone is as good as the other?

No doubt the totally underprivileged can be given extra opportunity till they catch up and once they have caught up the privilege can be removed.

Everyone should work hard to succeed and not have a take it easy policy that leads to under-performance.

Also the per capita income of family needs to be taken into consideration..let the poorer sections have a slight advantage over the rest.

Those who are intelligent and rich should use their own money to get a higher education.

 

[yesmohan]

"Making the child cry and comforting it then " like strategy is used to impress upon the innocent / ignorant.

 

[sangom]

I feel having a reservation policy is not beneficial in the long run cos the best of brains from any community can go untapped.

The country will lose out its full potential eventually.

These days when education is stressed as important for every community almost everyone from any community is scoring high marks and doing well in studies..no one single community dominates anymore.

So why have a reservation based on caste/community when everyone is as good as the other?

No doubt the totally underprivileged can be given extra opportunity till they catch up and once they have caught up the privilege can be removed.

Everyone should work hard to succeed and not have a take it easy policy that leads to under-performance.

Also the per capita income of family needs to be taken into consideration..let the poorer sections have a slight advantage over the rest.

Those who are intelligent and rich should use their own money to get a higher education.

The hindu population consisted of the three higher castes and a vast majority of people comprising the Sudras and still lower castes including the untouchables. It is probable that, as per the 2011 caste census, the total of the three higher caste groups within Hindus is just around 10 to 15% while the rest of 85% comprise the sudras and others, on an all-India basis.

The disingenuous idea of "middle castes" bandied about in this forum, is a product of the minds of some of our hindutwa ideologues, I feel, because in most other parts of India, there are no such "middle castes". yadvas, kurmis, vanniyars and thevars. Yadavs comprise what were "Ahir," "Gwala," "Goala", "Gavli", "Konar" etc., people in different parts of the country. From the 19th. century or so these pastoral, cattle - keeping and milk vending castes have claimed their descent from Yadu, the mythical king and have sought to improve their caste status based on this premise. But so far they continue outside the three higher castes and are considered as part of Sudras only.

Kurmis are mainly a farming caste and they were valued at a time when jungles had to be cleared and brought under stable agriculture. The kurmis of Awadh were thwarted from getting Kshatriya status (to be granted by Asaf-ud-Dowlah, the fourth Nawab of Oudh) by the combined opposition of the Rajputs (who themselves had been granted Kshatriya status only some time before from being a "farmer soldier" status, and the Bhmihars, both of whom were established landowning classes already.

As early as in 1833, the Vanniyar, who were then known as Pallis, had ceased to accept their "low caste" status,...They tried to get an order in Pondicherry that by descent they were not a low agricultural caste. In preparation for the 1871 Indian census they petitioned to be recognised as being of the kshatriya (warrior) varna of Hindu society. By 1931, due to their successful politicking (a process known as sanskritisation), the term Palli was removed from the Madras census, with the term Vanniya Kula Kshatriya appearing instead.

The Pallis formed a number of caste organisations using their preferred name, with the Vanniyakula Kshatriya Maha Sangam appearing in Madras in 1888. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanniyar)

The Thevars comprise the Agamudaiyars, Kallars and Maravas; the second and third categories were considered as sudras in the bordering districts of Travancore and Madras Presidency (Tamil Nadu, now). But due to their political strength etc., they have got a common caste name of Thevar. Nothing is known about their way of livelihood but it is probable that in ancient Tamil country, they formed the 'peasant soldier' who were common in those ancient times (peasants ordinarily, but taking up arms for their ruler in times of war).

Except Yadavs and Kurmis, there are no counterparts in other parts of India; even Yadavs and Kurmis do not enjoy the "middle caste" status which is a product of the Dravidian revolution of T. Nadu, I feel. The Dalits elsewhere in India are used as serfs by the kshatriya and equivalent zamindar castes/groups.

In the Indian condition, the privilege of reservations cannot be withdrawn because the ancient caste system was the original sin and its after effects will have to be experienced, as per the Karma theory.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

I feel having a reservation policy is not beneficial in the long run cos the best of brains from any community can go untapped.

The country will lose out its full potential eventually.

These days when education is stressed as important for every community almost everyone from any community is scoring high marks and doing well in studies..no one single community dominates anymore.

So why have a reservation based on caste/community when everyone is as good as the other?

No doubt the totally underprivileged can be given extra opportunity till they catch up and once they have caught up the privilege can be removed.

Everyone should work hard to succeed and not have a take it easy policy that leads to under-performance.

Also the per capita income of family needs to be taken into consideration..let the poorer sections have a slight advantage over the rest.

Those who are intelligent and rich should use their own money to get a higher education.

Reservation Policy has been politicized in such away that it becomes one of the 'vote bank' elements, like Kaveri water, Mullaiperiyar, Tamil Eelam, Secularism, which is very hard to remove.

As 'varnasaradharma' is being cited as the reason for reservation, it actually affects only the FC community, predominantly Bs. At the time of implementation, since there was no serious resistance from FC castes, and Bs as usual are very self-centered, without bothering about the consequences, it is being twisted to suit the convenience of majority of castes, some of them would have come under Pshatriya and Vysya clan.

If 'Karma Theory' plays its part, how is it that castes from Pshtriya and Vysya clan also enjoy the benefit. Karma is actually surrendered in front of clever manipulation and political pressure. Reservation policy is the best example to prove there is no 'karma' but only 'karumam.'

 

[renuka]

Dear Sangom ji,

Its clear that Brahmins exist in India but it seems to me that Kshatriyas and Vaishyas hardly exist since almost every Non Brahmin is technically a Shudra but just being reclassified as a pseudo kshatriya and pseudo vaishya.

Can you name me the communities in India that are the real Kshatriyas and Vaishyas?

 

[கால பைரவன்]

I feel, just like the term "higher" and "lower" are used here as a relative term, the term "middle" is used. It is not different from the usage of terms such as "lower" and "very lower" found in Sangom's post itself but a mind from the "jihadi-jesus" stable would obviously assign everything to a "hindutwa" mindset!

The term "middle" is used to differentiate from the "lower" only because the hardships suffered by the "lower" castes are recognized and hence cannot be simply clubbed with the castes who enjoy political, social, and economic clout and those who got themselves a bigger pie of these special privileges through these very same clout.

Once a narrative is established i.e. "lower" castes suffering because of "higher" castes, every caste wants to be bracketed as a "lower" caste and tries to pose as a victim of one sort or another and that is why we hear about this enormous percentage of population coming under this "lower" and "very lower" categories. It helps to achieve multiple objectives. You get the moral high ground. You get to enjoy the special privileges as a matter of right. You get to continue to overlord the "very lower" categories without any consequences. These are simple truths realizable by anyone but for those with extreme prejudice and hatred against brahmins!

 

[prasad1]

Rajput as Kshatriyas.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajput

The Vaishya community consist of several jāti or subcastes, notably the Agrahari,[SUP][/SUP] Agrawals,[SUP][/SUP] Barnwals, Gahois, Kasuadhans, Khandelwals, Lohanas and Maheshwaris of the north.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaishya

In southern India, the Chettiars and Mudaliars are prominent Vaishya communities.

 

[sangom]

Dear Sangom ji,

Its clear that Brahmins exist in India but it seems to me that Kshatriyas and Vaishyas hardly exist since almost every Non Brahmin is technically a Shudra but just being reclassified as a pseudo kshatriya and pseudo vaishya.

Can you name me the communities in India that are the real Kshatriyas and Vaishyas?

You are right, in a way. We do not know at this point of time as to who were the original Surya Vamsa, Chandra Vamsa Kshatriyas and which caste groups formed the original Vaishya class. The word vaisya, as you may well know, means 'a man who occupies the soil' and so it originally referred to the farming class of people. However, as time passed, the agriculturist class got slowly demoted to Sudra category and the trading, mercantile class of people exclusively came to be known as vaisyas.

In all of the old Travancore and Cochin states there are no vaisyas and the only kshatriya king was that of Cochin, not of Travancore which was ruled by the "Ay" kings who were essentially konars who got kshatriya status.

That is why I believe that if we talk of India as a whole, the myth that a certain group of middle castes everywhere heap atrocities on Dalits and that the very same middle castes benefit unduly from the reservation policy. For example, in UP, Bihar etc., many of the brahmins also are skilled shooters and the Dalits who have their living standards marginally improved, due to the reservation system and try to get rid of their serfdom from the land owning classes, are persecuted by the very land owning classes. It may be true that the Vanniars and Thevars are the biggest land owning castes in present day TN, it was not always so; similarly the rajputs, bhumihars, and sometimes even brahmin zamindars plunder, rape and kill dalits because they believe that without the slavery of these Dalits their existence will be in jeopardy. In all these discussions it must be remembered that the root cause is the window of reservations open to the Dalits which is now available, plus, to some extent the work of the jihadi-jesus media in bringing this window within the reach of the Dalits.

The classification of most castes and sub-castes has undergone changes with the times, due to the Sanskritization efforts in one direction and the efforts of the higher castes to ward off any more groups within their club by demoting the caste status to Sudras and untouchables. During the British rule much work was done by Thurston and others to study our caste system but their findings may not hold good today.