Non brahmin Archaka trained students jobs in jeopardy

[vgane]

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I think the Government should give jobs to the Non brahmin students who are trained as Archakas...
Karunanidhi played havoc with the students lives knowing well that this may not be accepted...Instead of making the students rebels suggest if these students are given alternate jobs...Should the atheist EVR followers decide who should be an Archaka

//www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/slide-show-1-how-can-untouchability-in-temples-be-justified/20130208.htm

 

[sangom]

I think the Government should give jobs to the Non brahmin students who are trained as Archakas...
Karunanidhi played havoc with the students lives knowing well that this may not be accepted...Instead of making the students rebels suggest if these students are given alternate jobs...Should the atheist EVR followers decide who should be an Archaka

//www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/slide-show-1-how-can-untouchability-in-temples-be-justified/20130208.htm

Shri gane sir,

This is a problem in which some NBs have been trained for the job of archakars and they are being denied those jobs on caste grounds. I feel the court will have no option but to allow them.

In Kerala also the NSS (Nair Service Society) is making a similar claim and it will most probably be accepted before the next Lok Sabha elections. EVR comes in the picture (and the flux banner also) because he was the forerunner of caste eradication or at least brahmin eradication movement in TN and these jobless people will make him their mascot to deal with AIADMK/DMK govts., both parties owning allegiance the Dravidian movement which actuaaly was anti-aryan (read anti-brahmin) movements in reality.

Hence irrespective of wishes, it is EVR's followers who will decide.

 

[sarang]

What has not come out is the real situational details.
1. Was there a vacancy and advertisement for the jobs?
2. How many are or were willing to accept job in any temple and relocate?
3. How many are willing to accept any job in any temple and get into priesthood when vacancies occur.
4. There are thousands of temples in which the priests are not brahmins (many in the high income category). Why not join them for a start?
5. Government has opened many teacher training colleges, and a large percentage of qualified teachers are not even absorbed in schools in any position, leave alone teaching.
6. Karunanidhi is very clever; when there is a dispute between caste hindus (I do not want to differentiate high and low), he says - what can I do if they don't listen?
7. Government has enough authority to create new posts of archakars in temples under their control. Who stops them.
8. Many temples are managed by DMK partymen. Why can't they employ the new graduates?
9. Similar problem exists in churches and mosques. Perhaps it is none of our business.

 

[vgane]

This whole thing was started by Karunanidhi with an ulterior motive...The objective was not holy...In any case this needs a resolution before it is too late

 

[sangom]

Personally I feel it does not matter who is an archaka in a temple.

 

[Brahmanyan]

Interesting, in many Temples the the next generation members of the present Archakars have migrated to other avenues of employment. Many of them have gone abroad also. I do not understand what prevents from the Government and HRE filling in the vacancies with the trained people without reference to Caste or community.

Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[sarang]

The govt. can and cannot. There is a big document, listing the posts available inside and outside the temple from, Executive officer to asst. pahan to sweepers, applicable designations, qualifications, exemptions, method of recruitment and so on. As the procedure is quite involved, there are many adhoc employment and contract labour. That is a different world. Anyway to give jobs (adhoc and not permanent) to 300 odd people is not difficult, if the priests are willing to work in any temple, rural or village. But all of them will expect and accept positions only in city temples or big temples.

Last month the TN government gave employment orders to over 10000 teachers in a grand public function. This was done in a rush to meet the CM's deadline. Within two days it came to light that more than half the applicants were bogus and the jobs were put in abeyance.

I feel it is better to start them in small temples and transfer them as per govt. rules to bigger temples.

Interesting, in many Temples the the next generation members of the present Archakars have migrated to other avenues of employment. Many of them have gone abroad also. I do not understand what prevents from the Government and HRE filling in the vacancies with the trained people without reference to Caste or community.

Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[tbs]

hi
just another political drama and vote bank tactics of MK....nothing else....just make mockery to paarpaan and get vote bank

from dalits....no real interest/or reform...when there is nothing to say/or some real caste problem with amma...he starts

against brahmins once in six months....afterlost power he kept quiet....

 

[P.J.]

hi
just another political drama and vote bank tactics of MK....nothing else....just make mockery to paarpaan and get vote bank

from dalits....no real interest/or reform...when there is nothing to say/or some real caste problem with amma...he starts

against brahmins once in six months....afterlost power he kept quiet....

tbs sir

Those members who have some revolutionary idea of keeping female purohits, and do away with Pada sala, etc open an employment exchange for these Trained Pujaris and take them to US or help find jobs for them in India itself.

 

[tbs]

tbs sir

Those members who have some revolutionary idea of keeping female purohits, and do away with Pada sala, etc open an employment exchange for these Trained Pujaris and take them to US or help find jobs for them in India itself.

hi
if govt seriously interested in NB pujaries....they can do it...becoz alll major temple under govt control...under HRCE....then

where is the problem?....they know very welll....customers are hindu devotees in temples....custimer satisfaction is important....

there are many villlage NB pujaries are suffering for economical development....mainly these politicians want destory gurukkals

like palani/madurai/srirangam /rameshwaram temples.....these are real intentions....even they want capture the CHIDAMBARAM

temple....but chidambaram dikshithars are strongest/vibrant community...they are ready to go to court and challlenging the

govt orders..but govt never fully succeeded....

 

[prasad1]

tbs sir

Those members who have some revolutionary idea of keeping female purohits, and do away with Pada sala, etc open an employment exchange for these Trained Pujaris and take them to US or help find jobs for them in India itself.

Mr. Pj,
You seem bitter about the prospect that women are working and competing with Brahmin men for "brahmin men's" jobs. I know you wants these jobs protected for Brahmin men (may be even our own family members). But in a changing society and a democracy at that there should not be any "protected" jobs.

Ideally speaking it should be purely merit based selection.

 

[kunjuppu]

I am really saddened, when we consider priesthood in our faith, and are not inclusive. Are the women or dalits not part of our faith? We are not talking about muslims or Christians. It is these people who go to the same temples as us. Who worship our same deities.

What do they need to do to qualify to enter the karuvarai? Should not education and training be enough? How many Brahmins are as qualified as these dalit boys, who are under so much pressure – not just to qualify, but to break the taboo, and be vanguards of change.

For those of us, who are familiar with U.S. civil rights, did we not cheer Rosa Parks or James Meredith. Yet how can we turn around, and give excuse for our version of apartheid, against our own.

It is only in Hinduism of India, that caste is a blinder, that colours all aspects of human behavior and interaction. So sad.

 

[P.J.]

I am really saddened, when we consider priesthood in our faith, and are not inclusive. Are the women or dalits not part of our faith? We are not talking about muslims or Christians. It is these people who go to the same temples as us. Who worship our same deities.

What do they need to do to qualify to enter the karuvarai? Should not education and training be enough? How many Brahmins are as qualified as these dalit boys, who are under so much pressure – not just to qualify, but to break the taboo, and be vanguards of change.

For those of us, who are familiar with U.S. civil rights, did we not cheer Rosa Parks or James Meredith. Yet how can we turn around, and give excuse for our version of apartheid, against our own.

It is only in Hinduism of India, that caste is a blinder, that colours all aspects of human behavior and interaction. So sad.

Kunjuppu Sir

Any profession needs some training; if females can learn under the guidance of a competent Guru for a prescribed period, after completing the eligibility criterion of having Yangopaveetham, they can be Purohits.

 

[Govinda]

There are so many small temples, in the corner of every road. I have seen these NB archakas esp. serving those various amman temples, simply do karpUra aarti and distribute kumkum prasadam. Those qualified archakas, may serve these temples. They can also bring awareness to those NB customer devotees on slokas, daily worship at home. But, for the big temples, and for the family rituals/festivals (samskAram), NBs would prefer Brahmin priests.

Anceint tamil kings built temples, our great CMS build flyovers. These archakas could have been employed to do poojas to these new buildings every anniversary, and a share of the scam could have been deposited as wages. They didn't. What a hypocrisy!

 

[prasad1]

I am really saddened, when we consider priesthood in our faith, and are not inclusive. Are the women or dalits not part of our faith? We are not talking about muslims or Christians. It is these people who go to the same temples as us. Who worship our same deities.

What do they need to do to qualify to enter the karuvarai? Should not education and training be enough? How many Brahmins are as qualified as these dalit boys, who are under so much pressure – not just to qualify, but to break the taboo, and be vanguards of change.

For those of us, who are familiar with U.S. civil rights, did we not cheer Rosa Parks or James Meredith. Yet how can we turn around, and give excuse for our version of apartheid, against our own.

It is only in Hinduism of India, that caste is a blinder, that colours all aspects of human behavior and interaction. So sad.

Said like a compassionate humanist.

completing the eligibility criterion of having Yangopaveetham

Seems like a deliberate impediment.

Here is USA to keep the neighborhood only for "whies" in 1980, a subdivision devised an elaborate scheme, to get around equal housing. They made membership of the country club a prerequisite for buying a house. The membership of the country club was exclusive, and a minimum of 3 existing members were required to sponsor a new member. Court saw through the scheme and was squashed.

To me this requirement of Yangopaveetham is a just ruse. They might as well have defined anatomical body parts.

 

[Iyer]

As recorded in the Bible, the Israelites when wandering in the wilderness for forty years after exile from Egypt, were divided by their God into 12 tribes after the twelve sons of Yakoob, son of Ishaaq, son of Brhm. One of the tribe is the tribe of Levites, named after Levi, one of the sons of Yakoob. The God of the Israelites so ordained that only the Levites were designated the task of priesthood and others so obeyed their God, not one from among the other tribes dared to contend for the priesthood. An entire book in Old Testament is dedicated to priestly duties and named Leviticus. Even Jesus, who belongs to the tribe of Judah, never sought for priest position in the synagogue. To this day the Israelites have been obedient to their God as regards priesthood.

The Hindu society was divided into varnas in ancient times and each varna assigned a specific task. The Brahmins were designated the priesthood. May I know why the other varnas are battling for the priesthood? Why don't they mind their own business?

 

[Acharya]

Priesthood is not a profession or vocation for any Tom, Dick and Harry (or for any Muniyandi, Mayandi and Karuppuswamy) to pursue after. It is in the gene. Priesthood is predestined. One must be a descendant of a Rishi, must belong to one of the Brahmin Gotras.

 

[Iyer]

I am really saddened, when we consider priesthood in our faith, and are not inclusive. Are the women or dalits not part of our faith? We are not talking about muslims or Christians. It is these people who go to the same temples as us. Who worship our same deities.What do they need to do to qualify to enter the karuvarai? Should not education and training be enough? How many Brahmins are as qualified as these dalit boys, who are under so much pressure – not just to qualify, but to break the taboo, and be vanguards of change. For those of us, who are familiar with U.S. civil rights, did we not cheer Rosa Parks or James Meredith. Yet how can we turn around, and give excuse for our version of apartheid, against our own.It is only in Hinduism of India, that caste is a blinder, that colours all aspects of human behavior and interaction. So sad.

Principles governing Spiritual life are diametrically opposite to and contrast the principles governing material (civil) life. Mere education and training does not make one a priest as much as mere MBBS and House Surgeon training does not make a good physician.

 

[sarang]

There is no need to feel sad. Caste is a binder (not blinder); and one can do what he thinks is right and what is in his power.

1. One can stop worshiping in or even entering a temple which has a brahmin priest.
2. One can stop attending functions - marriage in any community, religious functions, social functions which employ brahmins for the services.
3. One can stop entering any office, government or private, which used or still use brahmin priests for their functions - vastu, pujas and the like.
4. One can refuse to watch films which used brahmin priests for the startup puja or music release puja.
5. One can stop watching tv serials which show temples with brahmin priests doing archanai and say 'sarva mangalam astu'.
6. One can enforce in his own house the discipline of not using a brahmin priest for any function - birth to death.
7. Paradesa vasis, who are not bound to follow indian customs, can ensure that only non brahmin priests are employed in offshore temples.

There are thousand 'satvik', non-violent, and rational paths for the concerned. Why not adopt these instead of claiming holier than thou or US civil rights follower attitude.

Our sanatana dharma allows coexistence of totally contradictory views and practices. People who disagreed with the philosophy and practices have always branched out and made their own laws. Two options are available - social boycott or form a new jati to pursue a new agenda. Sword is not the answer.

I am really saddened, when we consider priesthood in our faith, and are not inclusive. Are the women or dalits not part of our faith? We are not talking about muslims or Christians. It is these people who go to the same temples as us. Who worship our same deities.

What do they need to do to qualify to enter the karuvarai? Should not education and training be enough? How many Brahmins are as qualified as these dalit boys, who are under so much pressure – not just to qualify, but to break the taboo, and be vanguards of change.

For those of us, who are familiar with U.S. civil rights, did we not cheer Rosa Parks or James Meredith. Yet how can we turn around, and give excuse for our version of apartheid, against our own.

It is only in Hinduism of India, that caste is a blinder, that colours all aspects of human behavior and interaction. So sad.

 

[sangom]

As recorded in the Bible, the Israelites when wandering in the wilderness for forty years after exile from Egypt, were divided by their God into 12 tribes after the twelve sons of Yakoob, son of Ishaaq, son of Brhm. One of the tribe is the tribe of Levites, named after Levi, one of the sons of Yakoob. The God of the Israelites so ordained that only the Levites were designated the task of priesthood and others so obeyed their God, not one from among the other tribes dared to contend for the priesthood. An entire book in Old Testament is dedicated to priestly duties and named Leviticus. Even Jesus, who belongs to the tribe of Judah, never sought for priest position in the synagogue. To this day the Israelites have been obedient to their God as regards priesthood.

The Hindu society was divided into varnas in ancient times and each varna assigned a specific task. The Brahmins were designated the priesthood. May I know why the other varnas are battling for the priesthood? Why don't they mind their own business?

Shri Iyer,


The above argument would have been very justified if the brahmins had confined themselves to the 6 duties or avocations specified for them, viz.,

[h=3]“Adhyaapanam Adhyayanam[/h] [h=3]Yajanam Yaajanam Tathaa[/h] [h=3]Daanam Pratigraham Chaiva[/h] [h=3]Brahmanaanaamakalpayaat”[/h]
But don't you agree that we brahmins have taken over very many other avocations including the "nishiddha" duties of surgeon, nurse, gynaecologist and so on and so forth? Also, you will observe that the archakar's job is not one of the permitted duties for brahmanas. And, in fact when the orthodoxy was at its height, (like 200 or 300 years ago) tabras never performed the pujari/archaka job and if any one did so (except in his Kuladeivam temple) such families were ostracized. That is why even today a vadama or any other sub-caste of tabras will not intermarry with the gurukkal/poojari sub-castes, if possible.

The right to flout the dicta of scriptures is not only for brahmins, imo, but for all hindus.

Secondly, during the real vedic times there was no idol worship, nor any temples of god. "Na tasya pratima asti" "There is no likeness of Him." declares the Svetasvatara Upanishad 4:19-3. But we brahmins have thrown such scriptures also to the winds and have followed our own "manmaani" unguided ways, all in the name of religion by making (mis)use of the high position which the brahmin caste enjoyed in the olden days. Does any nithyaahnika, grihyasutra talk about temple-going? You will find only "pilgrimage" to "punyateerthas/punyasthalas" like Kasi, Gaya etc. Thus temple was not a part of brahminic/vedic way of life at all.

To talk of priesthood in the matter of vedic rites is not the same as poojari/archakar's job in the temple.

 

[zebra16]

Dear Sri Sangom,

Shri Iyer,

Secondly, during the real vedic times there was no idol worship, nor any temples of god. "Na tasya pratima asti" "There is no likeness of Him." declares the Svetasvatara Upanishad 4:19-3. But we brahmins have thrown such scriptures also to the winds and have followed our own "manmaani" unguided ways, all in the name of religion by making (mis)use of the high position which the brahmin caste enjoyed in the olden days. Does any nithyaahnika, grihyasutra talk about temple-going? You will find only "pilgrimage" to "punyateerthas/punyasthalas" like Kasi, Gaya etc. Thus temple was not a part of brahminic/vedic way of life at all.

If you talk of grihya sutras, you may not be completely correct.

If the svetasvatara upaniSad quotation is to be taken at its face value and as a literal translation, which you want us to do and as also you talk about grihya sutras, then you will have to say whether mahanyasam as per Bodhayana paddathi is genuine or whether it is an interpolation.

If Bodhayana knew about svetasvatara upaniSad and his interpretation is the same as yours, why there is a dhyana sloka addressed to Lord Siva which would simply defy the concept of " na tasya pratima asti"

 

[sarang]

This is the prime duty and not necessarily the only duty or occupation. One can find zillions of instances of brahmins employed in other vocations. There are palakkad brahmins, kongu brahmins, kanchi brahmins and from himalayas to dwaraka to kalinga who have excelled in many professions. In addition they followed their hollowed traditions and respected others as well.

Vigraha worship is accepted and practiced by all including brahmins. There is a theory and philosophy behind every practice. Hence, such misquotes will not prove anything. All acharyas have strived to see a pattern (or patterns). Has Sankaracharya prohibited vigraha worship; it is claimed that he installed many including Mookambika devi in kollur.

“Adhyaapanam Adhyayanam

Yajanam Yaajanam Tathaa

Daanam Pratigraham Chaiva

Brahmanaanaamakalpayaat”

 

[P.J.]

If a main gate of a house faces a Road opposite to it, it is customary to fix a Theru Koothu Pillayar
near the gate , and daily one time Pooja and Neivethyam is done. There are many small time Gurukkal who do it for many homes bringing Neivetham , flowers etc and doing it daily.
As our home in Chennai faces a Road opposite to it, as per the advice of Engineer, we also have a THERU KOOTHU PILLAYAR near our front Gate and a Gurukal is paid to do daily one time Pooja with Neivedayam etc.
We are paying for his services monthly. One Gurukal is doing Pooja for many such Theru Koothu Pillayar, plus a he is also helping as assistant in a big Temple.

Even Non Brahmins having such Theru koothu Pillayar prefer only Bramin Gurukal to do daily poojas.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

We have discussed the problem faced by Brahmin Archakas in the past.

The fact is that there is no love lost between the Brahmin Archakas (Kurukkal ) and the Brahmin community in general.

The Kurukkal Community was never treated as equal. Then they changed their title to Sivacharya and later to Adi Saivas.

The basic problem is that they are Saivas. Followers of Saiva Siddhanta and Saiva Agamas. The Smarthas never accepted the Agamas as equal to Vedas. Is there any member here who can trace any ancestors to Temple Priests?

Non-Brahmins would be accepted as temple priests only when the Kurukkal community gives up that profession. But the Kurukkal community is the poorest of the Brahmins. They are in no position to give up the profession.
It is easy for the other Brahmins who have always considered the profession of temple priesthood to be demeaning to advise the Kurukkal community.

But the fact remains that the Kurukkal Community has been totally neglected by the general Brahmins.

I would be glad to learn that I am wrong.

 

[prasad1]

Half knowledge is more dangerous, than ignorance.
there is an old saying in hindi "adhjal gagri chalkat jaye" meaning one who has the least knowledge shout loudest.
a person who is master of subject know that there is no point in futile discussion so when his subject is talked about he keeps silent. It is only when the knowledge is required he shows his mastery.

Sangomji, thanks for setting the records straight.