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Non brahmin Archaka trained students jobs in jeopardy

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This being a Brahmin site, and majority being from this community, I suppose we want to protect as many profession as possible for our community. At the same time we want the freedom to pursue every other profession we can get hold of in the world.
It is like eating our cake and having it at the same time. How very generous of us. Of course it is only in cyberworld and that too
anonymously.
 
Dear Sri Sangom,



If you talk of grihya sutras, you may not be completely correct.

If the svetasvatara upaniSad quotation is to be taken at its face value and as a literal

translation, which you want us to do and as also you talk about grihya sutras, then

you will have to say whether mahanyasam as per Bodhayana paddathi is genuine or

whether it is an interpolation.

If Bodhayana knew about svetasvatara upaniSad and his interpretation is the same as

yours, why there is a dhyana sloka addressed to Lord Siva which would simply defy

the concept of " na tasya pratima asti"

Dear Shri Narayanan,

Thank you for bringing in some very valid points.

As you may be well aware, the Mahanyaasam is a procedure to invoke rudra into the

various organs of the body. In a way, if you can look at it dispassionately,

Mahanyaasam may be said to be an ancient forerunner of the Reiki of present times,

imo. But both Reiki and Mahanyaasam requires "Faith" as the first and most essential

requirement.

In the traditional Baudhaayanokta mahanyaasa paddhati, it is seen that the nyaasa

may be done by the purohit and then there is a mantra saying "yajamaanam

rakShatu...". Hence I conclude that even the nyaasa is only for the purohit and not

done by the yajamaanan.

The Dhyaanasloka which my book - a very old book in Grantha script which may be

about a 100 years old, bought by my grandfather in his patashala days possibly - has is

the following:

गौरं कुंकुमपङ्किलं सुतिलकं व्यापाण्डु गण्ढस्थलं
भ्रूविक्षेप कटाक्षवीक्षणलसत्संसक्त कर्णोत्पलं ।
स्निग्धंबिंबफलाधरप्रहसितं लीलालकालंकृतं
वन्दे पूर्ण शशाङ्क सन्निभनिभं वक्त्रं हरस्योत्तरं ॥

gauraṃ kuṃkumapaṅkilaṃ sutilakaṃ vyāpāṇḍu gaṇḍhasthalaṃ
bhrūvikṣepa kaṭākṣavīkṣaṇalasatsaṃsakta karṇotpalaṃ |
snigdhaṃbiṃbaphalādharaprahasitaṃ līlālakālaṃkṛtaṃ
vande pūrṇa śaśāṅka sannibhanibhaṃ vaktraṃ harasyottaraṃ ||

(I am giving this dhyaanasloka here so that we may know whether we are talking on the same point.)

This is a mental picturizing of some form of Rudra to facilitate the subsequent identification of different organs of this mental image of Rudra with the corresponding organs of the Mahanyaasa chanter; this is not a "pratimaa" which means an imitation, likeness, image, resemblance, etc. To the extent this dhyaanasloka attributes a certain form to Rudra, I feel it violates the vedic words. Baudhaayana perhaps did so because the Taittiriya YV in its rudraprasnam already describes Rudra's form to some extent, neelagreeva, sitikaNTha, vyuptakESa, sahasraakSha, etc. But it was contradicting the na tasya pratimaa asti if we take the wide meaning that the God is formless.


Adishankara also says exactly what the Yajurveda says, namely, the Parabrahman is devoid of all Gunas. And we continue practising idol worship and justify it because we practice it.

(Brahmins, or rather Hindus, it seems to me, have been like the no-good nephew in (matrilineal) Kerala society who says when his uncle and guardian punishes him and yells out:
അമ്മാവാ എന്നെ അടിക്കണ്ട, ഞാന്‍ നന്നാവൂല്ല! (ammāvā enne aṭikkaṇṭa, ñān- nannāvūlla!) Uncle! No use punishing me, I will not improve.)
 
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Principles governing Spiritual life are diametrically opposite to and contrast the principles governing material (civil) life. Mere education and training does not make one a priest as much as mere MBBS and House Surgeon training does not make a good physician.

I agree with Sangom's view that the archaka/pujari jobs should be viewed differently from the priesthood about which you are arguing about.

We all know that the archaka job has been reduced in stature to the level of any other job, such as administrative or maintenance posts, within a temple premises. There is no case for arguing against inclusion of other caste members in this profession. If they are duly qualified and there is no reason for us to think they will work with any lesser dedication and faith, the devotees may demand from this post, what is the problem in accpeting them? The conflict seems to be more from the point of view of material benefits associated with a government post than anything else!

Of course, the dravidian parties are playing politics over this issue. For example, they have no problem with respect to the hold of certain middle castes in administrative posts which are much more lucrative than the archaka post. They do not talk about equality, social justice etc there. The erstwhile DMK government explicitly prohibited brahmins from sitting in any trustee post. There was no outrage or talks about caste discrimination then.

However, all these cannot be a reason for us to oppose NBs becoming archakas.
 
This article is basically, virulently Anti-Brahmin

The heading of the article is

'How can untouchability in temples be justified?'

The Human Rights Protection Centre has taken up their cause and has been helping them for the last three years. They recently organized a demonstration near the Memorial Hall, Chennai, to condemn the action of the government to sustain untouchability in temples.

"We helped the students to get organized and also impleaded them in the case," says S Raju, state coordinator, Human Rights Protection Centre. "After nearly five years and several adjournments, the case has finally come to trial. We are hoping for a positive judgment. Our Constitution has legally abolished untouchability and considers it a crime against humanity, than how can we justify this kind of untouchability in temples? It is no longer the question of only jobs; it is our fundamental right we are fighting for. Can we justify the practice of untouchability as a religious right?" he questions.
Where is the question of Untouchability here?

The article conveniently omits to mention that there are thousands of temples in Tamil Nadu where the Priest is a Non-Brahmin Pujari.

The jobs have to provided by the HRCE who control the temples.

How do the Brahmins come into the picture, except for the pending litigation?

Such articles targeting the Brahmin Community continues to be written.

IMO we should not give publicity to such articles.
 
Half knowledge is more dangerous, than ignorance.
there is an old saying in hindi "adhjal gagri chalkat jaye" meaning one who has the least knowledge shout loudest.
a person who is master of subject know that there is no point in futile discussion so when his subject is talked about he keeps silent. It is only when the knowledge is required he shows his mastery.

Sangomji, thanks for setting the records straight.

Dear Shri Prasad,

Due to old age perhaps, I am all confused! What are the posts to which both the above observations pertain? Kindly enlighten.
 
This article is basically, virulently Anti-Brahmin

The heading of the article is

'How can untouchability in temples be justified?'


Where is the question of Untouchability here?

The article conveniently omits to mention that there are thousands of temples in Tamil Nadu where the Priest is a Non-Brahmin Pujari.

The jobs have to provided by the HRCE who control the temples.

How do the Brahmins come into the picture, except for the pending litigation?

Such articles targeting the Brahmin Community continues to be written.

IMO we should not give publicity to such articles.

Dear Shri iniyan,

First let me offer you a warm welcome back.

I do not find any references to brahmins or any brahmin association, in the rediff write-up. It only gives the facts and says that the state govt.'s programme (to appoint NBs as archakas in temples) "was challenged in the Supreme Court by the Adi Saiva Sivachariyargal Sangam, Thenindia Thirukoil Archakargal Paripalana Sabai and others". I agree that we need not give unnecessary publicity unless we are of the view that Gurukkals, Sivachariars are also brahmins and are our equals in caste.
 
Thank You, Sangom,

Where is the question of Untouchability here?

What is the human right involved here?

That particular group The Human Rights Protection Centre is Muslim dominated.

The opposition comes from the Adheenams who control the temples and other caste groups. They are backing the Sivacharyars.

Whatever we may say here, I do not think the Brahmins will accept the Kurukkal community. I had talked to my friends who lead the group when this issue came up. They are better off classifying themselves separately.
 
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Since this thread is about pujAris, I would like to share my recent experience in a temple, here.

Ram's brother in law had come down from the U S of A for a KumbAbishEkam at Thenkarai village (Madurai dist) and

when he saw an announcement that 'Tamil archanai' will be performed, he requested the tambram pujAri to do it. The

pujAri agreed with a big grin and did the same ashtOthram in Sanskrit, replacing the 'namaha' portion with 'pOtri' !! :cool:
 

Since this thread is about pujAris, I would like to share my recent experience in a temple, here.

Ram's brother in law had come down from the U S of A for a KumbAbishEkam at Thenkarai village (Madurai dist) and

when he saw an announcement that 'Tamil archanai' will be performed, he requested the tambram pujAri to do it. The

pujAri agreed with a big grin and did the same ashtOthram in Sanskrit, replacing the 'namaha' portion with 'pOtri' !! :cool:

Q (i) is namaH = pOtri...??
Q (ii) what exactly were you looking for? For eg. one namavalli of Sri Vinayaka is "dvaimAturAya" were you looking for translation as "iraNDu thAyArin puitrane pOtri"....??
 

Since this thread is about pujAris, I would like to share my recent experience in a temple, here.

Ram's brother in law had come down from the U S of A for a KumbAbishEkam at Thenkarai village (Madurai dist) and

when he saw an announcement that 'Tamil archanai' will be performed, he requested the tambram pujAri to do it. The

pujAri agreed with a big grin and did the same ashtOthram in Sanskrit, replacing the 'namaha' portion with 'pOtri' !! :cool:

ஓம் விநாயகனே போற்றி

ஓம் வினைகள் தீர்ப்பவனே போற்றி

ஓம் அரச மரத்தடி அமர்ந்தவனே போற்றி

ஓம் அகந்தை அளிப்பவனே போற்றி

ஓம் அறுகினில் மகிழ்பவனே போற்றி

ஓம் அச்சம் தவிர்ப்பவனே போற்றி

ஓம் ஆணை முகத்தானே போற்றி

ஓம் ஆதி மூலமே போற்றி

ஓம் ஆனந்த உருவே போற்றி

ஓம் இமவான் சந்ததியே போற்றி

ஓம் இடரைக் களைவோனே போற்றி

ஓம் ஈசன் மகனே போற்றி

ஓம் ஈகை உருவே போற்றி

ஓம் உண்மை வடிவே போற்றி

ஓம் உலக நாயகனே போற்றி


BOOMI:
 
Q (i) is namaH = pOtri...??
Q (ii) what exactly were you looking for? For eg. one namavalli of Sri Vinayaka is "dvaimAturAya" were you looking for translation as "iraNDu thAyArin puitrane pOtri"....??
(i) The translation for 'namaha' is given as 'to bow'. It is not 'pOtri' in Tamil. 'pOtri' means to praise.

(ii) The 108 praises of God / Goddess need not be a direct translation of the 'ashtOthram'.

Each language has its beauty. I tell my students who learn Carnatic music that some Thyagaraja krithis will look

not so great if translated in Tamil. For example:

'Seethamma mAyamma Sri RAmudu mA thandri' is nice to sing.

How about 'SeethammA engaL ammA Sri RAmanE engaL appA' OR

'SeethammA em annai Sri RAmanE em thandhai'?
 
The HRCE in Tamil Nadu brought out a number of Archanas in Tamil. Very nice Archanas drafted by Tamil Pandits and relying on old Tamil texts. Some of them translations of Sanskrit Archanas.

They are a pleasure to hear. Unfortunately not all the priests are familiar with them. They do carry printed books.

Please Do Archanas in Tamil.
 
Priests must be encouraged to read from books if they are not fully familiar with the tamil or samskrit mantras. In the Balaji temple in Sirumigai near Mettupalayam, archanas are booked and collectively done around 11 am. All the names are read out for sankalpam and then the archana is done, if I remember right, read out in a resonant voice (and through speakers). It is also a beautiful experience.

Many karnatic singers use notebooks, mobiles, ereaders or tablets for the songs, a long travel from the old days when the vidwans samg for hours without any song books.
 
Nacchinarkiniyan;176930 They are a pleasure to hear. Unfortunately not all the priests are familiar with them. They do carry printed books. [B said:
Please Do Archanas in Tamil.[/B]


next time, kapali kovil, my archana will be in tamil. :)
 
கால பைரவன்;176948 said:
........... ஓம் அகந்தை அழிப்பவனே போற்றி!

What you wrote changes the meaning completely!
Yes Sir. Also
ஓம் ஆணை முகத்தானே போற்றி
should be ஓம் ஆனை முகத்தானே போற்றி. :typing:
 
If a main gate of a house faces a Road opposite to it, it is customary to fix a Theru Koothu Pillayar .........
Dear P J Sir,

Theru koothu is a form of dance! The deity is known as 'therukuththu PiLLaiyAr' (தெருகுத்துப் பிள்ளையார்)

 
........ Q (ii) what exactly were you looking for? For eg. one namavalli of Sri Vinayaka is "dvaimAturAya" were you looking for translation as "iraNDu thAyArin puitrane pOtri"....??
One of my friends gave me a hint and the translation could be

'iru annaiyarin selvanE pOtri'. (
இரு அன்னையரின் செல்வனே போற்றி)

I feel very happy to listen to the VEnkatEsa suprabatham in Tamil.

The translation is excellent. Here it is:

VEnkatEsha Suprabhatam Tamil
 
Dear P J Sir,

Theru koothu is a form of dance! The deity is known as 'therukuththu PiLLaiyAr' (தெருகுத்துப் பிள்ளையார்)


hi

may be called as.... முச்சந்தி பிள்ளையார் ....
 
கால பைரவன்;176948 said:
I think this should have been:

ஓம் அகந்தை அழிப்பவனே போற்றி!

What you wrote changes the meaning completely!

I am sorry. This is not my creation. I had copied it from this Blog. I had given that in my original message.

BOOMI:

Looks like the author has given it in the spoken Tamil in Chennai where அழிப்பவனே becomes அளிப்பவனே. Laugh.
 
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