Of what does a Brahmin make?

[BostonSankara]

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This is a post meant for fun, loving, spiritual, and cultural debate. Nothing more and nothing less is meant by it.

What makes a Brahmin? Here are 3 questions please answer all and feel free to elucidate upon your own answers. I would prefer if no one commented upon anyone's answers directly and simply put forth their opinion. This website seems too full of rebuttal and sadly lacking in original opinion and this is an attempt to remedy that. Let us not devolve into argument. . .

What makes person a Brahmin? Is it Nature or Nurture? Here are three unique scenarios. . .

Scenario #1) An erudite Brahmin couple are walking through the woods and come upon a beautiful (but clearly Caucasian child) they take it in and save it's life rearing it in the deepest of Vedic tradition. At age 10 the child is ready for pathasala . . . Is it Brahmin? It certainly wasn't by birth but most certainly was by environment. . .

Scenario #2) A scientist simple clones the genetic code of an active Brahmin priest. The child is raised in a wholesome way yet devoid of religion. The child becomes an adult and decides to follow science as a lifestyle disregarding religion completely. It is a complete and total copy of the Brahmin priest in every way except for it's embracing of Sanatana Dharma. Does this child have a birthright?

Scenario #3) A Brahmin couple living separate from religion adopts a child the child is Brahmin yet it's own parents so devoid of culture gave it up. Does it have a birthright even though it's own active Brahmin parents laugh at their own culture and press for things like attendance in IIT in Andhra moreso that religiosity?

I can't wait to hear your input!
-
Shankar

 

[zebra16]

Dear Shankar,

Reading this message as a continuation of your other posting in the thread "Who is really protecting what", this is my response to your query. My response is not fun oriented, but an effort to help you in your quest for conducting yajnopavitham for your son.

.

What makes person a Brahmin? Is it Nature or Nurture?

It is neither. As on today, a Brahmin is one whose biological parents are/ were both brahmins. Almost 99% of present day brahmins belong to this category.

That said, was it always like that? History says NO. History for these purposes revolve around vedas, smritis and puraNas. This begs the question, how do you view the vedas or puraNas etc. Are these historical developments that took place in the last 5000 years or so, or are they pertaining to the yuga periods ranging gigantic time scales of millions of years.

If you consider the history of 5000 years or so as the correct interpretation, then you will find many instances of non-brahmins becoming brahmins and vice versa. The latest should be the mass return of local population to Hindu fold after the decline of Buddhism and jainism. Surely some of the returnees would have become brahmins.

If you look to the period just before decline of buddhism, in Bhagvat Geetha the guNa of a person was considered as a criterion of a brahmin.

If you look further back, you would find rishis nominating their outstanding students as brahmins and also expelling some from brahmin varNa.

So there is always a case for induction into the brahmin fold. The question is, who is the competent authority to do so? Herein the problem lies. There is no central authority in hinduism. A person recognized as a brahmin by one religious authority may not be recognised as such by another authority, or by the general population.

So the next question is, what is your need? Recognition by others or following the Dharma as per hinduism. If it is the latter, you need not have to bother with recognition issue.

 

[renuka]

Dear Boston,

I am not a Brahmin and I would like to ask you this.

What is the need for anyone to be a Brahmin to realize God?

Why does everyone want to be a Brahmin?

Why cant we be contented with what God made us and try to realize Him through means available to us?

I will tell you..I once tried to join a Forum meant for Brahmins only (Not this Forum)to learn more of religion etc.

I was politely redirected to another forum which I left after a while cos it was too boring(everyone was too goody goody types)

I didnt feel bad that I was not allowed into that forum becos I was Non Brahmin..I was thinking ok let look for other places.

I like this forum cos there is fun,music,fights etc like some Bollywood movie.

Thats why I am surprised why does everyone want only to be a Brahmin..why doesnt anyone want to be any other Varna.

For fun I will tell you this its less hassle being a member of other Varnas.
Brahamana Varna requires more discipline.

 

[amala]

I second Renu. If you manage to get your yagnopaveetam, I'm sure all of us here will be so happy for you but if you can't due to reasons beyond you, please don't fret. You can still follow your Dharma and realise Brahman. A piece of thread won't make any difference in the larger scheme of things IMHO.

 

[Marvin.Naidoo1]

Dear Boston

I live in South Africa, and I have first hand experience of living as a "second class" citizen. I have triumphed through all the hardships and today by the grace of god and my parents, I am a successful IT professional. Like many of my fellow "Indians", living here. Apartheid though it suppressed us, did not mean we had to continue living as cane cutters. Similarly being a Brahman is not an exclusive right by birth. If one subscribes to the requirements, and wants to be a Brahman, why not. Everyone is equal in the eyes of god.

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear Boston

I live in South Africa, and I have first hand experience of living as a "second class" citizen. I have triumphed through all the hardships and today by the grace of god and my parents, I am a successful IT professional. Like many of my fellow "Indians", living here. Apartheid though it suppressed us, did not mean we had to continue living as cane cutters. Similarly being a Brahman is not an exclusive right by birth. If one subscribes to the requirements, and wants to be a Brahman, why not. Everyone is equal in the eyes of god.

hi marvin,

welcome back. long time no hear guy?

hopefully you will be here more often than not...

you are absolutely right.. 'everyone is equal in the eyes of god'. even if the poosaari does not grant the favour, God will. i am a firm believer of that.

one of my life interests - to visit durban and see the tamil temples there.

haveagoodday

 

[C RAVI]

I agree with Shri Narayan and Renuka.

I don't understand why people think that being a brahmin is something great or something that's considered as the only best way of living?

I wonder why people either opt to get rid of Brahmin community as a sort of burden or want to be considered onself as brahmin?

Culture, traditions, practices etc are all of different sort for different community people. What ever be the systems associated with each cast/community, the prime motive of every one is to achieve higher education, rewarding career and secular social environment.

The cultural preferences and traditional aspects of life are all purely a personal choice as per one's liking and are something that may either make the person happy & satisfied or make him/her feel uncomfortable/disguisted/useless, deep with in oneself. What ever the case may be, with respect to the style of living (traditional or Secular or a Mix), the character, behaviour, attitude, intentions, morality, ethics etc..etc of a person can never be determined/considered as positive or negative just because a person is following some specific tradition/culture/dharma.

Humans, from the time immemorial, were just mere humans irrespective of their profession, culture, belief etc.

Realization of God/Spirituality in the right spirit has nothing to do with one's culture & traditions., education & status. What you believe in God and what you mean by our spirituality need to be recognized clearly before you make an atempt towards realiazation of God. In this materialistic and challenging world with time constraints and impatience, many are not clear as what is the concept and purpose of God & Spirituality and what and how one can acheive with it, doesn't matter to which caste and religion a person belongs to.

Following the culture & traditions as what been tought to us by our parents, forefathers of our family OR discarding all such family practices and defining one's own sytems are purely one's choice. Doing things for the sake of others/society has no sense and would serve no purpose to one's inner self.


Do things for yourself or don't do for yourself. You are the one who gonna feel for what you do or ignore to do.

 

[Raghy]

Sri.Shankar, Greetings.

What makes person a Brahmin? Is it Nature or Nurture?

In my personal case, neither. Only my school leaving certificate makes me belong to Brahmin Community. So, I guess, there is one more factor to consider in this equation. Government and politicians are very careful to restrict anyone from brahmin community to avail any benefits from the government; so, the caste certificate is very important. This is my personal experience. I am not writing this for debating purposes.

Scenario #1) An erudite Brahmin couple are walking through the woods and come upon a beautiful (but clearly Caucasian child) they take it in and save it's [COLOR=#da7911 !important][FONT=inherit !important][COLOR=#da7911 !important][FONT=inherit !important]life[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] rearing it in the deepest of Vedic tradition. At age 10 the child is ready for pathasala . . . Is it Brahmin? It certainly wasn't by birth but most certainly was by environment. . .

I am not quite understanding the predicament in this scenario. The child is 10 and ready for Patasala. I understood that far. If learning from Patasala is important, then the child gets enrolled in Arya Samaj or Isckon Guru Kulam or in similar places to study what ever. ( I have never been near a Patasala; so, don't know what the students study there). Why does the question "Is it Brahmin?" arise here at all? What is important? Is it admission to any possible Patasala? or is it to know the child is Brahmin or not? I think those two are two different, independent issues. I don't see the point in rolling them together.

Scenario one seems to me as an imaginary scenario meant for misleading.

Scenario #2) A scientist simple clones the genetic code of an active Brahmin priest. The child is raised in a wholesome way yet devoid of religion. The child becomes an adult and decides to follow science as a lifestyle disregarding religion completely. It is a complete and total [COLOR=#da7911 !important][FONT=inherit !important][COLOR=#DA7911 ! important][FONT=inherit ! important]copy[/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR] of the Brahmin priest in every way except for it's embracing of Sanatana Dharma. Does this child have a birthright?

All I can see in the question is, does a cloned child have birth right or not? The source of genetic code means nothing. What is the difference? In the sperm bank one gets sperm from a random person; One may argue academically about the parenthood of that child. That is just for academic. What is the difference for a cloned child? I see the scenario as the same. So, personally I discard the reference to Brahmin priest as an example or non-important information.

The question I see is, does the child have birth right? I go on to the next scenario....

Scenario #3) A Brahmin couple living separate from religion adopts a child the child is Brahmin yet it's own parents so devoid of culture gave it up. Does it have a birthright even though it's own active Brahmin parents laugh at their own culture and press for things like attendance in IIT in Andhra moreso that religiosity?

This scenario is mis represented. The poarents do have culture. Devoid of religion, devoid of practices followed by other brahmins is the culture of the parents. For example, how I live is my own culture; it does not have to confirm with the practices of others. How can the parents laugh at their own culture if they are adopting such a culture? It seems Sri. shankara is quite confused while imagining this scenario. Anyways, again the question about birth right comes up.... Scenario two and scenario three are bent upon the birth rights.

The child is an individual. It doesn't matter whether the child grow from a test tube or from a human womb. In either cases, the end product, the child is an independent individual. Such an individual has a birth right as per the law of the land. It is so simple. I don't see the reason for all these imagined scenarios.

But then, I am not that learned. For me everything is black and white. If I see something grey in my life, I work at it to either make it black or white. The end result may not be pleasant all the time though; but, it keeps me away from confusions.

Cheers!

 

[BostonSankara]

Dear Sri Raghyji...
"I have never been near a Patasala; so, don't know what the students study there). Why does the question "Is it Brahmin?" arise here at all?"

You do not understand the question therefore please do not posit an answer. ISKON in the US is considered about as trustworthy as the Catholic Church here. It borderlines on "evil" to most and equates to a bunch of white drug addicts from San Francisco abusing our tenets and children in the name of Sri Narayana himself (which they won't even call Sri Vasudev) and have vocally disconnected and said blatantly that they are NOT a HINDU organization!!!!

Arya Samaj suffers no such bad reputation here and are loved dearly.

"The source of genetic code means nothing."
This was all you needed to say to answer all questions. Thank you.

In the US ISKON is near to evil based on their egregious abuse of children. Let us not ever discuss ISKON again. . .

I could go on quoting you but I do not think you understand the inquiry I put forth so I refrain. Please let me know if you would like me to move forward in my response. . .

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri BostonSankara Ji,

My short answer:

#1 - May be
#2 - No
#3 - May be

Regards,
KRS

 

[renuka]

Dear Boston

I live in South Africa, and I have first hand experience of living as a "second class" citizen. I have triumphed through all the hardships and today by the grace of god and my parents, I am a successful IT professional. Like many of my fellow "Indians", living here. Apartheid though it suppressed us, did not mean we had to continue living as cane cutters. Similarly being a Brahman is not an exclusive right by birth. If one subscribes to the requirements, and wants to be a Brahman, why not. Everyone is equal in the eyes of god.

Dear Marvin Naidoo,

I hope you dont get me wrong(BTW I am a Non Brahmin too)..Since you say that being a Brahmin is not an exclusive birth right what about being any other caste?

I see the name Naidoo in your username.Is that a birth right too or anyone can qualify to be a Naidoo?

Note: Dear Marvin..I added this line later after reading responses to my question to you..please read all the posts below this before you answer me cos I do not want you to misunderstand me.


Regards
Renu

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear Marvin Naidoo,

I hope you dont get me wrong(BTW I am a Non Brahmin too)..Since you say that being a Brahmin is not an exclusive birth right what about being any other caste?

I see the name Naidoo in your username.Is that a birth right too or anyone can qualify to be a Naidoo?

dear renus,

i need to, now, give you some background as to south african tamils.

in the early 1900s, many many from tamil nadu/andhra went to africa, to work in the fields, build the railroads. this was not just the union of south africa, but also the then north south rhodesia kenya uganda tanganika and zanzibar.

the east african railroad was built, manned by south indians, who eventually when all these countries gained independence in the 1960s joined their brethren in south africa or (thanks to opting for british passport) moved to england.

the south african tamils, thanks to apartheid, introduced by the national party of the dutch boers, 1948 i think, was cut off from india culturally and otherwise. this was not the period of internet and so cut off means cut off.

for close to 40 years 4 generations grew up, as second class citizens in apartheid africa, the sons and daughters of the erstwhile labourers, now professionals as lawyers, teachers doctors and built their own living colonies.

the caste names are just surnames, as you will find naidoo, chetty moodli padayachee pillay and such tamil/telugu castes except iyers.

these have their own tamil temples, mostly in durban, without the benefit of brahmin priests till apartheid ended, and i do not know the situation now. i have south african tamil hindu friends, whose grand father or grand mother, officated as priest or priestess in these temples, and they have maintained their faith inspite of so many difficult circumstances, that each time, i see a SA tamil hindu, i am overwhelmed with emotion.

post apartheid, there has been resumed communication to india. the indian government sensing the interest in india, introduced hindi classes in their consulates. the idiots did not know acknowledge understand that a sizeable number of indian origins there are tamils. i do not know if tamil classes have been sponsored by the delhi wallahs. to me it is the grossest display of cultural arrogance, in the name of bharat, ie not acknowledging the cultures that make up to form india.


please do not cast caste aspiration on marvin naidoo's name. it is just a name. over there naidoos marry chettys who marry padayachees and so on. those hindus have thrown off the albatross of caste from their shoulders.

btw these are a pretty fun loving lot. i used to go to their annual diwali and pongal parties...lots of music, dancing..et al

ok?


i can go on..but i will stop here.

 

[renuka]

dear renus,

i need to, now, give you some background as to south african tamils.

in the early 1900s, many many from tamil nadu/andhra went to africa, to work in the fields, build the railroads. this was not just the union of south africa, but also the then north south rhodesia kenya uganda tanganika and zanzibar.

the east african railroad was built, manned by south indians, who eventually when all these countries gained independence in the 1960s joined their brethren in south africa or (thanks to opting for british passport) moved to england.

the south african tamils, thanks to apartheid, introduced by the national party of the dutch boers, 1948 i think, was cut off from india culturally and otherwise. this was not the period of internet and so cut off means cut off.

for close to 40 years 4 generations grew up, as second class citizens in apartheid africa, the sons and daughters of the erstwhile labourers, now professionals as lawyers, teachers doctors and built their own living colonies.

the caste names are just surnames, as you will find naidoo, chetty moodli padayachee pillay and such tamil/telugu castes except iyers.

these have their own tamil temples, mostly in durban, without the benefit of brahmin priests till apartheid ended, and i do not know the situation now. i have south african tamil hindu friends, whose grand father or grand mother, officated as priest or priestess in these temples, and they have maintained their faith inspite of so many difficult circumstances, that each time, i see a SA tamil hindu, i am overwhelmed with emotion.

post apartheid, there has been resumed communication to india. the indian government sensing the interest in india, introduced hindi classes in their consulates. the idiots did not know acknowledge understand that a sizeable number of indian origins there are tamils. i do not know if tamil classes have been sponsored by the delhi wallahs. to me it is the grossest display of cultural arrogance, in the name of bharat, ie not acknowledging the cultures that make up to form india.

i can go on..but i will stop here.

please do not cast caste aspiration on marvin naidoo's name. it is just a name. over there naidoos marry chettys who marry padayachees and so on.

ok?

Dear Kunjs,

I am not casting caste aspiration on Marvin's name..that why I wrote in my post that "dont get me wrong and I am also a Non Brahmin too"

I dont think Marvin will misunderstand me cos since I am also a Non Brahmin.

Kunjs generally I have seen this debate all the time that being Brahmin is not a birth right but no one comments about other caste.

Thats why I brought up this question..Ok you see by birth I am a Vanniyar Padayachi but I dont really attach too much importance to it unlike some of my relatives who attach lots of importance to caste and its unique lifestyle.

I see many Non Brahmins always saying that being Brahmin is not a birth right but they themselves dont want to give up their caste indentity or lifestyle.

Yes I agree that Naidoo,Chetty etc are just surnames thats how I view even Iyer,Iyengar or any other Brahmin surname.

Its just surnames isnt it? So why does everyone want to be a surname they are not born into ?

Does a Reagen surname strive to be a Clinton surname?

 

[kunjuppu]

Dear Kunjs,

I am not casting caste aspiration on Marvin's name..that why I wrote in my post that "dont get me wrong and I am also a Non Brahmin too"

I dont think Marvin will misunderstand me cos since I am also a Non Brahmin.

Kunjs generally I have seen this debate all the time that being Brahmin is not a birth right but no one comments about other caste.

Thats why I brought up this question..Ok you see by birth I am a Vanniyar Padayachi but I dont really attach too much importance to it unlike some of my relatives who attach lots of importance to caste and its unique lifestyle.
http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=118076
I see many Non Brahmins always saying that being Brahmin is not a birth right but they themselves dont want to give up their caste indentity or lifestyle.

Yes I agree that Naidoo,Chetty etc are just surnames thats how I view even Iyer,Iyengar or any other Brahmin surname.

Its just surnames isnt it? So why does everyone want to be a surname they are not born into ?

Does a Reagen surname strive to be a Clinton surname?

dear renus,

you have missed the point of my post.

the history of s.a. tamils is different from that of emigrated tamils elsewhere.

they are survivors of what possibly was the cruellest organized society state sanctioned segration, akin to hinduism.

one needs to read up on the 20th century history of s.africa, in order, even to gauge, their experience.

that you being a padayachi, is or may be an identification, and mainlybecause, your forebears have had an open climate of communication with india. malaya was never a closed oppressive racist society like south africa.

if i can speak on what i know, a surname of padayachee is just that. i know pakkirisaamis and munusaamis from south africa. they marry to nairs and moodlis. to them, these are just names, but above all, they are all hindus and that's all counts.

so to ask someone like marvin, 'if naidoo is a birthright or a qualification', is unfair. to me, and pardon me for this, its sounds awfully insensitive. that is my take on this..

this is only for south africa. a naidu in india is quite a different categorization altogether, which you are probably familiar with.

for anyone venturing into this branch of the thread, i would recommend that they read some primers on apartheid in south africa, and where indians stood on the totem pole, and how they endured and won.

 

[renuka]

dear renus,


so to ask someone like marvin, 'if naidoo is a birthright or a qualification', is unfair. to me, and pardon me for this, its sounds awfully insensitive. that is my take on this..

Dear Kunjs,

I beg to differ..I am not being insensitive at all.Its just a question that I put forth..well since there is a difference of opinion here lets wait for Marvin to answer me.

Note: Dear Marvin..I was in no way being insensitive to you when I asked about if Naidoo caste is also a birthright.I hope you dont misunderstand my post cos I am a person who is very very neutral about caste and that was just a sincere doubt from the bottom of my heart cos I hear the same question about Brahmin is not a birth right even from people of my birth caste.

addition:Kunjs I feel my post has been dragged out of context..I am one of those who totally dislike any uncalled for fiery debate.

lots of love
renu

 

[kunjuppu]

dear renus,

my rather passionate response, was to your original wording,

I see the name Naidoo in your username.Is that a birth right too or anyone can qualify to be a Naidoo?

to me i read connotations there.

let marvin answer both, if he feels they deserve a different answer.

but my response, based on my visit to south africa, talking to folks there, on my south african tamil friends here in toronto - these people practise no caste. to them a hindu is a hindu, and the concept of a naidu can may be compared to a iyer or iyengar.

but a brahmin can only be compared to a kshatriya or vaisya, which again is meaningless, afaik, in s.african tamil hindu society.

i am only telling you what i know, and i agree, that all of this may be bunkum and a figment of my imagination (known to have a wild one there )

good night dear lady..catch up with you, God Willing, tomorrow

 

[renuka]

dear renus,

my rather passionate response, was to your original wording,

I see the name Naidoo in your username.Is that a birth right too or anyone can qualify to be a Naidoo?

to me i read connotations there.

let marvin answer both, if he feels they deserve a different answer.

but my response, based on my visit to south africa, talking to folks there, on my south african tamil friends here in toronto - these people practise no caste. to them a hindu is a hindu, and the concept of a naidu can may be compared to a iyer or iyengar.

but a brahmin can only be compared to a kshatriya or vaisya, which again is meaningless, afaik, in s.african tamil hindu society.

i am only telling you what i know, and i agree, that all of this may be bunkum and a figment of my imagination (known to have a wild one there )

good night dear lady..catch up with you, God Willing, tomorrow

Dear Kunjs,

I get what you mean but I just did not want things to get out of context and be of any discomfort to Marvin and also you.

Take care..
Love you
renu

 

[sarang]

Sri. Naidoo is very clear in his perception and attitude.

Dear Boston

If one subscribes to the requirements, and wants to be a Brahman, why not. Everyone is equal in the eyes of god.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Kunjuppu Ji,

If I may intrude here, I have a thought I would like to share and I hope you will not take this wrong.

Many of us do not know about the present living conditions or how Hinduism is practiced in SA. Thank you for enlightening us. No one in this Forum will belittle the effects of apartheid and what these folks had to go through. You would also agree, however much you feel for them, only they can answer for themselves, they walk and we can only talk.

This is why I am surprised that you would term Srimathi Renuka Ji's question as insensitive. I am sure that the Hindus in SA know all about castes and if they are not practicing it, can very well explain it, perhaps in beautiful terms more than I can about a casteless Hindu society they have built over there, that perhaps may be a model for Hindus in India.

This why I think, pardon me for thinking so, that may be when we try to 'protect' the sensibilities of the downtrodden and folks who have gone through very bad experience, we do it out of our own inadequacy to have let it happen. But if you think about it, it happened, they went through it, but today they are free. When we think to 'protect', then we, and this is my own opinion, fall unknowingly in to the 'protector' mentality. And as you know, this then renders the other party as a not equal person to you (I am sure many of us know about the 'poor' relative syndrome) and ultimately this is not being fair to that person. Healthy respect to another human being is one thing, but mollycoddling someone is something else. I personally do not think that it is healthy as it diminishes that person.

Let Sri Naidoo Ji speak and if he is offended by the question, let him state that too.

I hope this makes sense.

Regards,
KRS

 

[Raghy]

Sowbagyavathy Renuka,

The surname 'naidoo' amoung South African Indians is a birth right. A son of Naidoo male can't call himself gownda or moodli. I know that very well. Even last night the South African Naidoo young man was at my home to escort my daughter out. If they become serious in the future date, my grand children through them would be with a surname Naidoo. So, the name Naodoo is a birth right.

Cheers!

 

[renuka]

Sowbagyavathy Renuka,

The surname 'naidoo' amoung South African Indians is a birth right. A son of Naidoo male can't call himself gownda or moodli. I know that very well. Even last night the South African Naidoo young man was at my home to escort my daughter out. If they become serious in the future date, my grand children through them would be with a surname Naidoo. So, the name Naodoo is a birth right.

Cheers!

Dear Raghy,

Thanks for your reply.Since surnames are a birth right and Hindu surnames are Varna based that means Varna should be also a birth right isnt it?

l do not see any problem in Varna being a birth right, let anyone be a Brahmin,Kshatriya,Vaisya,Sudra or any Pratiloma for that matter..that doesnt disqualify anyone from realizing God or be a practising Hindu isnt it?

I feel its always the Brahmin Varna that seems to be debated whether it should be a birth right or not.

I have never heard anyone asking to be accepted into any other Varna.Why I dont know???


Just to add..I feel many are confusing the right to learn Vedas and about being a Brahmin and feel that those who qualify irrespective of their Varna should be allowed to study Vedas.
Like recently Sringeri Mutt allowed a so called untouchable to join the mutt.

I feel no one needs to be made a "Brahmin"in order to study Vedas but should be allowed to study if they have the inclination and qualities and this applies to all castes.
Make it like a "entrance exam" that if anyone Brahmin or Non Brahmin qualifies for it let them learn Vedas.
This is a different topic anyway..so I rest my case.

 

[BostonSankara]

Dear Renuka,

According to Vedas NO Varna is dissallowed the Yajnopaveetam and vis. right to study Vedas. The onlyu statement is that it is REQUIRED by Brahmins. One MUST however receive the thread in order to perform the Sandhyavandhanam and officially study the Vedas. Any cast could receive this and this is VERY well understood by all regardless of a lineage and its strictures. You seem to think people WANT to BECOME Brahmins. This is NOT the case. the sad point is that a many people have interpreted the Vedas in a way that disallows anyone but Brahmins to be TAUGHT the Vedas. In such action they have cloistered Nitya Karmas into a hidden realm. This has NEVER been the case WITHIN the Vedas. Let me state it this way. .

NO ONE in their right mind EVER wants to be associated with Brahminism. What we want are to reclaim our scriptures from the ill informed minds of the past few hundred years which (possibly in response to Colonialism and in an attempt to preserve heritage) became patent bigots and have changed the very message they are born to convey. We want OUR Vedas back NONE of us want to BE Brahmins which actually carries a very negative and pompous connotation in most places. In the US many Brahmins would NEVER identify as such as such as they are WELL AWARE that anyone who has studied recent Indian history considers elitists. Not meaning any slander here but all TamBrahms should know that there IS NO PRIDE in the word Brahmin. Our denied rites and threads are far far deeper than cast and semantics. Even Brahmins by birth do not identify as such here it is incredibly negative and that reputation has been hard earned by the proud few.

-
Shankar

 

[BostonSankara]

Tell me the Varna that creates medicine and I will tell you the Varna that I exist in (professionally). I am a healer and creator of that which never existed before in the name of helping humanity. What is MY varna in that respect?

 

[renuka]

Tell me the Varna that creates medicine and I will tell you the Varna that I exist in (professionally). I am a healer and creator of that which never existed before in the name of helping humanity. What is MY varna in that respect?

Dear Boston,

I am a doctor and as far as I know doctors are not in a "favourable" placing in the Varna system.

 

[BostonSankara]

I will take a dis-favorable Varna if it must be but I will not be denied Could you even imagine if we denied other our work? The sins that would incur I dare never imagine. If I must I shall shake this tree until the proper fruit falls but I will never stop watering it in order to make all the fruit fall to my feet.