On ISIS, India must resist pressure from Israel Prem Shankar Jha

[prasad1]

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Israel has been at the heart of the turmoil in West Asia for the last 11 years. During this period it has bombed Lebanon, imposed an embargo on Gaza, and then bombed Gaza not once but twice. It has bombed Syria without provocation several times, most recently in May 2013, played a key role in destroying Iraq, and had almost convinced the United States and the European Union to unleash an all-out air attack on Syria in reprisal for using chemical weapons against civilians, before the British chemical and biological weapons centre at Porton Down concluded that the Sarin gas used in these attacks could not have come from the Syrian army.


For the past 10 years Israel has also spared no effort to instigate a US attack on Iran’s nuclear facilities. This relentless warmongering, and especially its second attack on Gaza, has it close to becoming an international pariah. Yet Israel has also been one of India’s staunchest allies. Not only has it given India its unstinting support on international issues, but it has been the most important supplier of arms and sophisticated defence technology to us during the past two decades. Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s decision to meet Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on the sidelines of the UN General Assembly was therefore both an act of courage and of affirmation.


But Netanyahu wanted to meet Modi not simply because he is prime minister of a brave new India. He had an urgent purpose: To persuade India to join the global coalition that Obama is forging to fight the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant (ISIS) ‘unconditionally’. This is because Netanyahu’s goal is not to destroy ISIS but to ensure its survival and continued control of northern Iraq and Eastern Syria.

With its immense army India has the capacity to tilt the scales decisively against ISIS. But it should do so only on the condition that Syria and Iran are also asked to join the coalition. As Modi said to the UN General Assembly, terrorism is a global threat, so everyone should be asked to join in the fight against it. There are no ‘good’ and ‘bad’ terrorists, only terrorists.
On ISIS, India must resist pressure from Israel - Hindustan Times

Anti- Muslim sentiment rampant in the BJP, it would be a misadventure for India.

 

[biswa]

Not sure what Israel has got to do with ISIS. But one thing is certain, ISIS is never going to be India's friend. Thankfully they have not got a hold of any Hindus yet.

 

[Kuvalayavalli]

The ultimate objective of isis is to either forcibly convert the entire non-muslim population of the world to islam forcibly or eliminate whoever is not a muslim, elimininate whoever does not convert to islam and that includes hindus in india. isis seemingly will never cease until their objective is met (or they themselves are destroyed completely), until they establish an islamic world. would it be wiser for new delhi to support isis?

 

[renuka]

Fighting ISIL with violence is like fighting with Raktabeeja asura.

From every drop of blood a new ISIL extremist will emerge.

I feel its very hard to defeat them at a physical level..each assault will only add fuel to fire.

They have to be handled "mentally"...that is not make them feel that they are losing but let them realize they are winners if they lay their weapons down.

Someone need to hear their side of the story..the story that led to this extremism.

But who will listen to them and will ISIL too listen and lay their weapons down?

May be we might need a logical thinking expert to handle this.I think I know one person.

 

[sarang]

Political and militant islam is dangerous. Obama has conceded that he was slow to realize the threat. Better to follow chanakya's advice.

 

[krish44]

anti muslim sentiment in BJP will lead to downfall of its govt.

will BJP take india into unwanted confrontation with ISIS and muslim world in the name of confronting terrorism is worth pondering

india may have to tread carefully while flirting with israel or US for technology imports or energy

the way this govt is operating , it might be a one term govt. it is burning out its good will very fast

it will succeed in antagonising all with overactivism in all issues collecting too many enemies everywhere.

parties like akalidal, INLD , samajwadi party , RJD , RLD and other socialists are coming together fast to pose a challenge in north

haryana elections and maharashtra will bring together unlikely parties .

a new realignment is on the cards.

 

[sangom]

Census 2011 has been silent till now, about the Muslim (and so population by religion data) population. It is said to be because if the data were to be made public, the generally held (comforting) notion of Hindus that they constitute 80% of the population, would have been severely shattered! (Demographic danger! Why Muslim population growth is alarming | India News Analysis Opinions on Niti Central)

It will be a safe and conservative estimate, therefore, to take the muslim population in 2001 as 30% and that, by 2014, it would have reached the critical point of 33%. "Critical" because, whenever the percentage goes higher than one-third, there has been a successful demand for a separate domain for them, e.g., Malappuram district in Kerala, Mewat in Haryana.

The ISIS threat cannot, therefore, be completely ruled out in India; we should also bear in mind that there are fringe groups in many communities/religious groups in India who will be ready to extend support of various kinds, in return for cash/foreign exchange, to the real extremist groups.

So, the most important job of the Modi Sarkaar (Ab ki baar!) is to step up efficient intelligence all over the country, and especially along the porous borders in the West/ North-west and in the North-east, and ensure that the ISIS does not succeed in gaining even the smallest foothold in our territory. But I doubt very much whether a government which seems to be forgetting itself in its own imagined grandeur, will be able to do the above duty with military precision, as is required and continue the vigil constantly all through, till such time the US destroys the ISIS completely. We should well remember that Mahatma Gandhi and the Indian National Congress fought in support of the Caliphate nearly a century ago!

 

[biswa]

Hey KV! Finally we have agreement on one subject!

The ultimate objective of isis is to either forcibly convert the entire non-muslim population of the world to islam forcibly or eliminate whoever is not a muslim, elimininate whoever does not convert to islam and that includes hindus in india. isis seemingly will never cease until their objective is met (or they themselves are destroyed completely), until they establish an islamic world. would it be wiser for new delhi to support isis?

 

[biswa]

Renukaji, you make the assumption that these are reasonable human being. Unfortunately Muslim extremists are not.

Fighting ISIL with violence is like fighting with Raktabeeja asura.

From every drop of blood a new ISIL extremist will emerge.

I feel its very hard to defeat them at a physical level..each assault will only add fuel to fire.

They have to be handled "mentally"...that is not make them feel that they are losing but let them realize they are winners if they lay their weapons down.

Someone need to hear their side of the story..the story that led to this extremism.

But who will listen to them and will ISIL too listen and lay their weapons down?

May be we might need a logical thinking expert to handle this.I think I know one person.

 

[renuka]

Renukaji, you make the assumption that these are reasonable human being. Unfortunately Muslim extremists are not.

Dear Biswa ji,

Reasoning with extremist of any kind is not an easy task. Islam isn't the only religion with extremists.

I feel if violence can never exterminate extremism.

Violence even as a reaction is the fodder for extremism.


There has to be a way to handle extremism.

One solution is a meteorite hits into earth and all humanity is wiped out.

Then there is no more violence.

Let the meteorite be the savior to re establish Dharma.

May be the meteorite will be the Kalki Avatar.

 

[biswa]

They are not just extremists. They are criminals. Are you saying that criminality deserves no punishment?

 

[renuka]

They are not just extremists. They are criminals. Are you saying that criminality deserves no punishment?

You can put a criminal in jail but the extremism in him can never die.

In jail he spends his time thinking how to change strategy so that he never gets caught the next time he indulges in crime.

Prison strengthens a criminal.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

But there is no idol worship and no casteism in Islam. So ISIS coming to India must be a good thing, is it not?!

 

[renuka]

But there is no idol worship and no casteism in Islam. So ISIS coming to India must be a good thing, is it not?!

Dear Kala Bhairavan Ji,

Casteism isnt a Hindu Phenomenon...its an Indian phenomenon.

Other religions like Christianity and Islam do not have casteism..but when practiced in India both these religions have casteism too..that is why we hear terminology like Dalit Christian and Dalit Muslim too.

So if ISIS comes to India..ISIS too will start a caste system...may be that will be good becos then ISIS would not be united anymore and their system will break down.

 

[biswa]

You can put a criminal in jail but the extremism in him can never die.

In jail he spends his time thinking how to change strategy so that he never gets caught the next time he indulges in crime.

Prison strengthens a criminal.

I think that is too general a pronouncement. Many criminals repent in jail and change for the better.

But the point is not really about the actual punishment. It is the use of punishment as a deterrent. I dont think most of us care about what is happening to JJ in jail. But if her plight and sentencing can even scare just one politician from taking even one Rs 100 bribe, that is a net positive in my book.

 

[renuka]

It is the use of punishment as a deterrent. I dont think most of us care about what is happening to JJ in jail. But if her plight and sentencing can even scare just one politician from taking even one Rs 100 bribe, that is a net positive in my book.

Does fear actually transform anyone?

 

[sarang]

Death sentence has not eliminated murder.
Chopping of hands has not eliminated stealing.
Stoning to death has not eliminated adultery.

Punishment is a deterrent, not a solution for the core problem - crime.

Worth repeating gurumurthy - dharma reduces crime, laws only punish crime.

Does fear actually transform anyone?

 

[krish44]

fear may not transform anyone. . according to some one gurumurty - whoever he is - will transform everyone .

let us all hear the messiah of the new age,lol

 

[biswa]

I think the point raised by member is valid about the efficacy of prisons (officially known as correction centers in the US). Right now there is a voter proposition in California which proposes that any property crimes below $950 will be a misdemeanor meaning no prison sentence.

But regarding the broader question of whether any crime deserves some punishment is an interesting debate.

 

[renuka]

Worth repeating gurumurthy - dharma reduces crime, laws only punish crime.

Exactly! A law is like a Smirti...so going by that Manu Smirti wont really help either.

 

[prasad1]

It is great to talk about crime and punishment.

A punishment may not be a deterrent to all criminals, but it is a deterrent to 99% of population. Exceptions do not make the rule, they just prove that it is not a perfect system. There can not be a perfect system just like you can not have a perpetual motion system.

Just like any lock can be picked by experts, but a casual thief will be deterred by a strong lock.

So you need a system to reward people who are law abiding, or inverse of it is to punish the perpetrators of crime (as defined in that place).
A constitution is far better than some idle imagination of long ago (smriti).

 

[renuka]

So you need a system to reward people who are law abiding.

Dear Prasad ji,

Believe me..this wont work.

I think I wrote in Forum some last few days that my secondary school was run a Buddhist Chinese Principal and he had the merit demerit card for each student to record each good deed and bad deed.

The good deed will gain points and a good report and the bad deed points will be minused.

For sometime it was working well..the bad deeds fell down drastically.

Then some guys wanted to gain good points too and they used to plan with their friends to drop some money on the walkway and then another friend acts as if he finds it and gives it to the class teacher and teacher will ask who lost the money and then the person who dropped it will say its his.

So teacher makes a note on who returned the money and then add a point in the merit card.

Enough of my male classmates used to even act as if they fainted and another guy would run to get a drink for him and then the guy who ran to get a drink gets points.

It was fun to watch the drama.

But bad deeds was surely down..it was just that fake good deeds had replaced the bad deeds!LOL