Pairs of Opposites and Our True Nature

[renuka]

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I was just thinking that our existence itself hovers around the pairs of opposites.

Even for compassion to arise in us we need to witness suffering of others.

Can compassion arise in anyone without witnessing suffering of others?? Not possible isn't it.

To a great extent we need "Bad/Evil" to exists even to cultivate Good qualities.

Most Good qualities develop in us using fear as the substratum.

Can anyone even be brave without being exposed to fear?

It seems quite evident that we are just living a life of Cause and Effect..that is we react to external stimuli to even build our mind.

So when are we truly our own selves?

Just say if the pairs of opposites did not exist..what will be our true nature?

Religion compares our true nature to deep sleep which is sans external stimuli but a person who is in deep sleep is totally unaware that he is sleeping ..he needs to wake up to and realize that he actually had a good deep sleep.
Here again the awake state is needed to even realize the deep sleep state.

So technically speaking "What is our true nature"??

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

Good topic. What we finally become should be taken as our true nature. Yes we should have experienced fear before we can understand what courage is. But bravado is also not a good thing. In my view that is the reason we go through and experience opposite states. To go through all the experiences at the ends of the spectrum and hence able to mature and arrive at the true nature.

 

[renuka]

Dear Sravna,

I had a strong feeling that you would be the first person to reply my thread and sure enough you are the first to reply! May be your are opposite of me!LOL

So what is the True Nature?

Is True Nature nothing but just lying "dormant" like how we all experience deep sleep?

I am starting to wonder that no true nature can actually exists without the pair of opposites..so is all this True Nature of Atma actually all hype??

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

I had a strong feeling that you would be the first person to reply my thread and sure enough you are the first to reply! May be your are opposite of me!LOL

So what is the True Nature?

Is True Nature is just lying "dormant" like how we all experience deep sleep?

I am starting to wonder that no true nature can actually exists without the pair of opposites..so is all this True Nature of Atma actually all hype??

Dear Renuka,

True nature of atma is not hype. If only the true nature exists, there would be no need for this world. So this world exists for you to realize the true nature. Wearing different masks and seeing the world through those masks helps you in this process. You finally become all knowing and that is your true nature.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

True nature of atma is not hype. If only the true nature exists, there would be no need for this world. So this world exists for you to realize the true nature. Wearing different masks and seeing the world through those masks helps you in this process. You finally become all knowing and that is your true nature.

Dear Sravna,

So the question still remains "Does anyone actually know True Nature of the Atma?"

I feel after many years of reading books..I am actually reading stuff for which there is no answer.

I would not say it was a waste of time cos I do love reading anything that adds to my knowledge and understanding..... I am still reading cos I like the journey of learning but yet this nagging doubt remains "Does anyone actually even know?"

This alone is enough to make or break anyone's faith in religion or scriptures..To Be or Not to Be.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

So the question still remains "Does anyone actually know True Nature of the Atma?"

I feel after many years of reading books..I am actually reading stuff for which there is no answer.

I would not say it was a waste of time cos I do love reading anything that adds to my knowledge and understanding..... I am still reading cos I like the journey of learning but yet this nagging doubt remains "Does anyone actually even know?"

This alone is enough to make make or break anyone's faith in religion or scriptures..To Be or Not to Be.

Dear Renuka,

According to the scriptures one's true nature is the nature of human mind without the ego. The best confirmation would be to find out whether such a person known to have realized the true nature exhibits behavior that he is said to exhibit?

For example whether the person,
i) does not yield to temptations.
ii) is not affected by external pressures

The above is possible because such a person has transcended ego and does not consider anything as external to him and so is not actually affected by things external.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

According to the scriptures one's true nature is the nature of human mind without the ego. The best confirmation would be to find out whether such a person known to have realized the true nature exhibits behavior that he is said to exhibit?



For example whether the person,
i) does not yield to temptations.
ii) is not affected by external pressures

The above is possible because such a person has transcended ego and does not consider anything as external to him and so is not actually affected by things external.

Dear Sravna,

Its almost impossible to know anyone's mind..a person might externally appear to have given up desires and transcended ego but his mind might be a bundle of unfulfilled thoughts and a lack of a situation for the thoughts to sprout into action.
Sometimes people even imagine they have transcended ego and given up desires.

Just like some people take pride in saying they are Virgins but may be their Virginity if becos of a lack of a situation for them to lose it ..in other words a lack of opportunity!LOL

So anyone can be a hypocrite/delusional and we may never know..even In Geeta there is a stanza that talks about hypocrisy.

Chapter 3. Karma-yoga

TEXT 6​

karmendriyani samyamya
ya aste manasa smaran
indriyarthan vimudhatma
mithyacarah sa ucyate​

SYNONYMS​

karma-indriyani--the five working sense organs; samyamya--controlling; yah--anyone who; aste--remains; manasa--by mind; smaran--thinking; indriya-arthan--sense objects; vimudha--foolish; atma--soul;mithya-acarah--pretender; sah--he; ucyate--is called.

TRANSLATION​

One who restrains the senses and organs of action, but whose mind dwells on sense objects, certainly deludes himself and is called a pretender.

If you ask me it is impossible to actually know anyone or sometimes even ourselves..so when this simple task itself we fail miserably..do you really think anyone can actually comprehend the Nature of Atma? (if there is actually something called the Nature of the Atma)

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

Yes I agree that there are many people who are hypocritical. I am not talking of those people. It is not difficult to find out whether a person has really conquered ego from his deeds and words. Humans can read what lies beneath the words and behavior.

 

[subashviyer]

I was just thinking that our existence itself hovers around the pairs of opposites.

Even for compassion to arise in us we need to witness suffering of others.

Can compassion arise in anyone without witnessing suffering of others?? Not possible isn't it.

To a great extent we need "Bad/Evil" to exists even to cultivate Good qualities.

Most Good qualities develop in us using fear as the substratum.

Can anyone even be brave without being exposed to fear?

It seems quite evident that we are just living a life of Cause and Effect..that is we react to external stimuli to even build our mind.

So when are we truly our own selves?

Just say if the pairs of opposites did not exist..what will be our true nature?

Religion compares our true nature to deep sleep which is sans external stimuli but a person who is in deep sleep is totally unaware that he is sleeping ..he needs to wake up to and realize that he actually had a good deep sleep.
Here again the awake state is needed to even realize the deep sleep state.

So technically speaking "What is our true nature"??

Ms. Renukaji
Pranaam

Good input. I add one more point.

Opposite of 'IN' is 'OUT' . similarly opposite of 'INHALE' is 'EXHALE'. Just because of one word is opposite to others, can we say I don't like opposite, so i will keep doing only inhaling. or other says I will do only exhaling. Then imagine the plight of that person. for survival both inhale and exhale are required. So what we say opposite is MAYA in fact they are not opposite, they are complementary to each other.

 

[sangom]

I was just thinking that our existence itself hovers around the pairs of opposites.

Even for compassion to arise in us we need to witness suffering of others.

Can compassion arise in anyone without witnessing suffering of others?? Not possible isn't it.

To a great extent we need "Bad/Evil" to exists even to cultivate Good qualities.

Most Good qualities develop in us using fear as the substratum.

Can anyone even be brave without being exposed to fear?

It seems quite evident that we are just living a life of Cause and Effect..that is we react to external stimuli to even build our mind.

So when are we truly our own selves?

Just say if the pairs of opposites did not exist..what will be our true nature?

Religion compares our true nature to deep sleep which is sans external stimuli but a person who is in deep sleep is totally unaware that he is sleeping ..he needs to wake up to and realize that he actually had a good deep sleep.
Here again the awake state is needed to even realize the deep sleep state.

So technically speaking "What is our true nature"??

Smt. Renuka,

While I think the pairs of opposites "seem to exist", I do not feel that the "opposite" is always necessary or conducive for manifesting the other. For example, compassion can exist even without witnessing suffering of another person but compassion gets exhibited or manifested when one person finds another suffering; at other times this compassion can exist in a dormant state.

Similarly fear does not usually generate bravery; either fear takes over or the person meets the contingency without fear and then we call it bravery.

"Our True Nature" is a living organism, given birth to, giving birth to and then dying. The qualities which are what you refer to are superimposed on this true nature and my pov is that these qualities vary from one person to another and are caused by the karmas which each one of us is programmed to experience in the present life. We are not in a sleep or dream state because the organism has no such state; it just IS, period. All the experiences of this life are being experienced as though the organism is fully awake, and even our ordinary "sleep" state is felt as though we had been awake before & after the sleep.

Adi Shankara brought in the sleep, dream, snake-in-the-rope etc., examples just to drive home the basic point that there is nothing so permanent, continuous or real about our existence which appears to us so solid and real, etc. At the end of the day (i.e., life) all this becomes null and void. Atheists are perhaps right in their view when they say "bhasmībhūtasya dehasya punarāgamanaṃ kutaḥ?"

 

[ashwin_ash]

I was just thinking that our existence itself hovers around the pairs of opposites.

Even for compassion to arise in us we need to witness suffering of others.

Can compassion arise in anyone without witnessing suffering of others?? Not possible isn't it.

To a great extent we need "Bad/Evil" to exists even to cultivate Good qualities.

Most Good qualities develop in us using fear as the substratum.

Can anyone even be brave without being exposed to fear?

It seems quite evident that we are just living a life of Cause and Effect..that is we react to external stimuli to even build our mind.

So when are we truly our own selves?

Just say if the pairs of opposites did not exist..what will be our true nature?

Religion compares our true nature to deep sleep which is sans external stimuli but a person who is in deep sleep is totally unaware that he is sleeping ..he needs to wake up to and realize that he actually had a good deep sleep.
Here again the awake state is needed to even realize the deep sleep state.

So technically speaking "What is our true nature"??

Fear is cathartic. Fear helps you overcome fear, so to speak. A horror movie is oddly comforting, you might think you'll live on after you die.

As regards our true nature, we all are born in our birthday suits, stark naked sans any rancor or emotions. Of course, research says some traits are hardwired in our DNA, it is not proven yet. It is impossible to gauge our true nature, "sadhu mirandal kadu kolladhu", circumstances, fear, and several intrinsic and external factors shape our nature. Why are we jealous of others, for instance?

Envy, jealousy, lust, gluttony, vanity and so on are different facets of our true nature which surface under differing circumstances.

 

[renuka]

Smt. Renuka,

While I think the pairs of opposites "seem to exist", I do not feel that the "opposite" is always necessary or conducive for manifesting the other. For example, compassion can exist even without witnessing suffering of another person but compassion gets exhibited or manifested when one person finds another suffering; at other times this compassion can exist in a dormant state.

Similarly fear does not usually generate bravery; either fear takes over or the person meets the contingency without fear and then we call it bravery.

"Our True Nature" is a living organism, given birth to, giving birth to and then dying. The qualities which are what you refer to are superimposed on this true nature and my pov is that these qualities vary from one person to another and are caused by the karmas which each one of us is programmed to experience in the present life. We are not in a sleep or dream state because the organism has no such state; it just IS, period. All the experiences of this life are being experienced as though the organism is fully awake, and even our ordinary "sleep" state is felt as though we had been awake before & after the sleep.

Adi Shankara brought in the sleep, dream, snake-in-the-rope etc., examples just to drive home the basic point that there is nothing so permanent, continuous or real about our existence which appears to us so solid and real, etc. At the end of the day (i.e., life) all this becomes null and void. Atheists are perhaps right in their view when they say "bhasmībhūtasya dehasya punarāgamanaṃ kutaḥ?"

Dear Sangom ji,

You wrote:

At the end of the day (i.e., life) all this becomes null and void.

I wish and would surely want to agree with this line but as a person who had seen Paranormal entities several times which I am very very sure it was not my imagination..those experiences make me think "if we become Null and Void how come some disembodied entities are still hanging around? Where did they come from?

If I had not experienced any Paranormal encounters before I would surely 100% want to agree with the fact that everything becomes Null and Void becos that would make perfect sense in my opinion.