PATHINI VRATHA DHARMA For MEN

[P.J.]

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PATHINI VRATHA DHARMA For MEN





But what does it mean in Kaliyuga?
It means Chaste and loyal to the husband.

Pativratha dharma is not meant for women alone, it is also for men.
It is PATHINI VRATHA DHARMA for them


"It is not that a chaste woman should be a slave while her husband is naradhama, the lowest of men. Although the duties of a woman are different from those of a man, a chaste woman is not meant to serve a fallen [irresponsible] husband."
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

Since the First part of my OP has nothing to do with my post, i deleted .
My intention was to get opinion on Pathi Virtha Dharma In Kaliyuga and whether it is applicable to Husbands also?
Hope members understand this.

 

[Raghy]

PATHINI VRATHA DHARMA For MEN



There's one list of Pativratas which Sita herself mentions in Sundarkand, 24th chapt,verses 10,11,12 (Valmiki Ramayana)


"Like the highly fortunate Sachi who waits upon Indra, like Arundhati on Vasishta, like Rohini on the Moon God, like Lopamudra on Agastya, like Sukanya on Chyavana, like Savitri on Satyavanta, like Srimati on Kapila, like Madayanti on Saudasa, like Kesini on Sagara, like Damayanti the daughter of Bhima, devoted to husband Nala, in the same way I am devoted to my husband Rama, the best in Ikshvaku dynasty."


But what does it mean in Kaliyuga?
It means Chaste and loyal to the husband.

Pativratha dharma is not meant for women alone, it is also for men.
It is PATHINI VRATHA DHARMA for them


"It is not that a chaste woman should be a slave while her husband is naradhama, the lowest of men. Although the duties of a woman are different from those of a man, a chaste woman is not meant to serve a fallen [irresponsible] husband."
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

Greetings.

I am not checking the meaning for slokas 10,11, 12 or Sarga 24 of Sundara Khandam.

The opening post means Ramayana took place after Mahabharata. Krishna was around before Rama.

"Pathini Vrathan"? I don't think any man would qualify for that. Don't forget.. Parasurama's mother only fantasised for few seconds when she saw the gandharva.... Off went her head!

Cheers!

 

[P.J.]

Greetings.

I am not checking the meaning for slokas 10,11, 12 or Sarga 24 of Sundara Khandam.

The opening post means Ramayana took place after Mahabharata. Krishna was around before Rama.

"Pathini Vrathan"? I don't think any man would qualify for that. Don't forget.. Parasurama's mother only fantasised for few seconds when she saw the gandharva.... Off went her head!

Cheers!

Raghy Sir



Nowadays we read stories of illicit relationship by men ; Even in some Movies it is shown wealthy persons moving behind Nurses, Servant maids etc. Age has nothing to do with them , But seldom a married Hindu women does it.


Cheers

 

[Raghy]

Raghy Sir



Nowadays we read stories of illicit relationship by men ; Even in some Movies it is shown wealthy persons moving behind Nurses, Servant maids etc. Age has nothing to do with them , But seldom a married Hindu women does it.


Cheers

Dear P. J,

Relationship doesn't have to be physical. It's a bit complicated to explain. Married or unmarried means nothing. Marriage is just a social event; it is not a state of mind. Personally I look at these things from a different plane altogether. My personal wave length is different.

Cheers!

 

[P.J.]

Dear P. J,

Relationship doesn't have to be physical. It's a bit complicated to explain. Married or unmarried means nothing. Marriage is just a social event; it is not a state of mind. Personally I look at these things from a different plane altogether. My personal wave length is different.

Cheers!

Raghy Sir

When we expect our wife to practice a certain code of conduct after the marriage, the same code is applicable to us also.

Cheers.

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri PJ,

Your OP looks to me very bald (மொட்டை). Why did not Sita refer to Nalaayini w/o maudgalya (in whose name there is a gotra too)?

Secondly, how do we define an "irresponsible husband"? Shri Abhay Charan De -who became Bhaktivedanta - left his wife and children to become a sanyasi, can he be called a "responsible" husband? Why quote his advice about "Patnee Vratam"?

 

[sarang]

In our varnasrama dharma, one can become a sanyasi at any age, but progress through grihasta and vanaprasta asramas is recommended. Since you have taken the onerous task of criticizing sanatana dharma and its adherents, what else one can expect. Is it a responsible behaviour to throw muck on someone who has served and spread sanatana dharma. It only reminds of DKs throwing cow dung on temple walls and images and posters.

It is really painful to see such a scholarly soul using its talents and erudition to degrade hindus and hindu symbols.

Dear Shri PJ,

Your OP looks to me very bald (மொட்டை). Why did not Sita refer to Nalaayini w/o maudgalya (in whose name there is a gotra too)?

Secondly, how do we define an "irresponsible husband"? Shri Abhay Charan De -who became Bhaktivedanta - left his wife and children to become a sanyasi, can he be called a "responsible" husband? Why quote his advice about "Patnee Vratam"?

 

[P.J.]

In our varnasrama dharma, one can become a sanyasi at any age, but progress through grihasta and vanaprasta asramas is recommended. Since you have taken the onerous task of criticizing sanatana dharma and its adherents, what else one can expect. Is it a responsible behaviour to throw muck on someone who has served and spread sanatana dharma. It only reminds of DKs throwing cow dung on temple walls and images and posters.

It is really painful to see such a scholarly soul using its talents and erudition to degrade hindus and hindu symbols.

sarang Sir

Thanks.
There are some posts which deserves no reply.

(Why did not Sita refer to Nalaayini w/o maudgalya (in whose name there is a gotra too)?

Secondly, how do we define an "irresponsible husband"? Shri Abhay Charan De -who became Bhaktivedanta - left his wife and children to become a sanyasi, can he be called a "responsible" husband? Why quote his advice about "Patnee Vratam"? )

Is these question a sensible one ? Can anyone answer why Ma Sita Did not include Nalaayini?

I never want to answer such questions.

I posted this Thread to get opinions on the present day Code of conduct among the married men and women and definitely not to discuss what has been mentioned by MA Sita In her list.

 

[P.J.]

Greetings.

I am is not checking the meaning for slokas 10,11, 12 or Sarga 24 of Sundara Khandam.

The opening post means Ramayana took place after Mahabharata. Krishna was around before Rama.

"Pathini Vrathan"? I don't think any man would qualify for that. Don't forget.. Parasurama's mother only fantasised for few seconds when she saw the gandharva.... Off went her head!

Cheers!

Raghy Sir

This post not meant to discuss about the listed persons; it is only to invite opinions "How this Dharma is to viewed in Kaliyuga"

Whether This Dharma is applicable to PATHI also?
Cheers

 

[sangom]

In our varnasrama dharma, one can become a sanyasi at any age, but progress through grihasta and vanaprasta asramas is recommended. Since you have taken the onerous task of criticizing sanatana dharma and its adherents, what else one can expect. Is it a responsible behaviour to throw muck on someone who has served and spread sanatana dharma. It only reminds of DKs throwing cow dung on temple walls and images and posters.

It is really painful to see such a scholarly soul using its talents and erudition to degrade hindus and hindu symbols.

I will try to say what I honestly feel about certain issues. Whether you consider it cowdung, DK, etc., is your pov and choice. I feel whatever we read as Ramayana has been written by some human agency and the words reportedly spoken by Sita are the composer's words. Just as we analyze Shakespeare, we should be able to analyze and discuss about Ramayana or Mahabharata or even the vedas & upanishads. Otherwise we will be no better than that rustic "Yadaartham" in the film Manonmani, a clip from which is here.

Shri A.C. De left his family when he was around 50. I think according to present day consensus, a husband leaving his wife and children and taking up sanyas or vaanaprastha cannot be considered as a "responsible" husband, especially when the modern generation goes by the dictum "till death us do part" as per the christian marriage liturgy and I have read such interpretation of the saptapadee mantras here provided by someone.

Shri PJ has, in truth, no convincing way to explain what he has, as seems to be his wont, sees something in a paper or web and immediately gives it as OP here! So he has taken the easy way of belittling me. There is a saying in Malayalam which means if a person finds it difficult to answer your questions, he will start making faces at you. (உத்தரம் முட்டியால் கொஞ்ஞணம் காட்டும்.)

 

[P.J.]

Anyone reading my OP will understand, it is not meant to discuss about Pathiviratha of persons listed by MA SITA
I am quoting it again

But what does it mean in Kaliyuga?
It means Chaste and loyal to the husband.

Pativratha dharma is not meant for women alone, it is also for men.
It is PATHINI VRATHA DHARMA for them


"It is not that a chaste woman should be a slave while her husband is naradhama, the lowest of men. Although the duties of a woman are different from those of a man, a chaste woman is not meant to serve a fallen [irresponsible] husband."
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami


My intention was to get opinions on PATHI VIRTHA DHARMA in KALIYUGA and applicability of that Dharma to PATHI also.

 

[Iyyarooraan]

In the modern world, Kaliyuga, the word marriage has different connotations. Marriage basically unifies two into one - to complement each other. Man of today is not a rishi to wish for rishi-patnilike wife. At best if husband and wife remain like devoted, unfailing, faithful and tolerant friends, the Heavens should only be happy in blessing them.

 

[Raghy]

Raghy Sir

When we expect our wife to practice a certain code of conduct after the marriage, the same code is applicable to us also.

Cheers.

Dear P. J,

I agree with that.

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

In the modern world, Kaliyuga, the word marriage has different connotations. Marriage basically unifies two into one - to complement each other. Man of today is not a rishi to wish for rishi-patnilike wife. At best if husband and wife remain like devoted, unfailing, faithful and tolerant friends, the Heavens should only be happy in blessing them.

Sri. Iyya, Greetings.

Women of modern era are more devoted than the 'rishi pathnis', in my opinion. Modern women has to face so many different persons in daily life, has to overcome so many situations in daily life.... when I compare the life the life of a 'rishi pathni' and a modern woman, any day I would say a modern day woman is much more tolerant and her life seems much more complicated.

Cheers!

 

[renuka]

What we fail to forget that we humans have a mind...so one might be physically chaste but mentally he/she might be emotionally attached to another person.

Study proves that extra marital emotional attachments which are mostly sans sex are the most dangerous of the lot that makes a marriage just an empty existence.

A simple test is this:

1)Who do we confide,share our ups and downs in life, discuss problems and exchange loving thoughts and feelings with(with no sex involved)..if the answer is Someone Who is NOT your spouse..then it means you are in an emotional relationship.

We humans as we age..we tend to become less physical and aspire for a relationship that is more at a mental level.
As we age...feelings of love seems like child play and we look forward for something more connected.

Emotional relationships do progress to a physical level sometimes but most just remain non physical.

So in such cases where there is no physical relationship..how does the Pati/Patni Vrat apply.

The body is chaste but the mind is devoted to another person.

 

[renuka]

Dear Shri PJ,

Your OP looks to me very bald (மொட்டை). Why did not Sita refer to Nalaayini w/o maudgalya (in whose name there is a gotra too)?

Secondly, how do we define an "irresponsible husband"? Shri Abhay Charan De -who became Bhaktivedanta - left his wife and children to become a sanyasi, can he be called a "responsible" husband? Why quote his advice about "Patnee Vratam"?

Dear Sangom ji,

You have a very valid point here.

I have always wondered before why men who take sanysas when wife and kids are still young do not think of their family and only think of themselves.
Family and wife need not be viewed as a possession if one has become a sanyasi but they can be viewed as fellow Atmas that need help.

What is the use of preaching Manava Seva is Madhava Seva when these sanyasis never rendered any seva to the wife and kids they left?

Even in case of Swami Raghavendra he left his wife and child and the wife had no means to bring up the child due to poverty and ended up committing suicide.

Why didn't he make sure his family was financially secure before taking up sanyas?

I feel any married man who wants to take up sanyas at a young age should be man enough to make sure they get their wives remarried and kids are financially secure.

He has to think of his young wife's emotional, physical needs and also the need for a father figure for his children.

So a true Patni Vrat man should make sure he fulfills all these conditions before sailing in the ocean of bliss.

 

[tbs]

hi
im silent in this topic.....lol

 

[sangom]

Dear Sangom ji,

You have a very valid point here.

I have always wondered before why men who take sanysas when wife and kids are still young do not think of their family and only think of themselves.
Family and wife need not be viewed as a possession if one has become a sanyasi but they can be viewed as fellow Atmas that need help.

What is the use of preaching Manava Seva is Madhava Seva when these sanyasis never rendered any seva to the wife and kids they left?

Even in case of Swami Raghavendra he left his wife and child and the wife had no means to bring up the child due to poverty and ended up committing suicide.

Why didn't he make sure his family was financially secure before taking up sanyas?

I feel any married man who wants to take up sanyas at a young age should be man enough to make sure they get their wives remarried and kids are financially secure.

He has to think of his young wife's emotional, physical needs and also the need for a father figure for his children.

So a true Patni Vrat man should make sure he fulfills all these conditions before sailing in the ocean of bliss.

Smt. Renuka,

I am glad that at least a lone voice has come in my support. Thank you.

I also feel that if a person - man or woman, boy or girl - is inclined towards spirituality and renunciation, he/she should, first of all refrain from marriage, like auvaiyaar or Adishankara. These two shining examples call the bluff on the usual blah blah that a person has to go through grihastasrama before entering vanaprastha and later into sanyasa, etc. So, did not Adi Shankara and Auvaiyaar break the holy rule?

And, once a person is married then he/she should continue within Grihastaasrama till the spouse dies unless there are very special circumstances like those of Punitavathiyaar (karaikkal Ammaiyar). That is the basic thing in Patnee vrata. And A.C. De imo is least qualified to speak on this topic.

 

[sarang]

Do you have any vedic/itihasic/puranic pramanams or just imho?

Is it mandatory that a person has to be a born sanyasin. Sometimes wives drive men away.

Sri Ramanujacharya's wife did three apacharams, before he took sanyas; perhaps he thought that she will be a hindrance in his spiritual path.

Smt. Renuka,

I am glad that at least a lone voice has come in my support. Thank you.

I also feel that if a person - man or woman, boy or girl - is inclined towards spirituality and renunciation, he/she should, first of all refrain from marriage, like auvaiyaar or Adishankara. These two shining examples call the bluff on the usual blah blah that a person has to go through grihastasrama before entering vanaprastha and later into sanyasa, etc. So, did not Adi Shankara and Auvaiyaar break the holy rule?

And, once a person is married then he/she should continue within Grihastaasrama till the spouse dies unless there are very special circumstances like those of Punitavathiyaar (karaikkal Ammaiyar). That is the basic thing in Patnee vrata. And A.C. De imo is least qualified to speak on this topic.

 

[P.J.]

Dear Sangom ji,

You have a very valid point here.

I have always wondered before why men who take sanysas when wife and kids are still young do not think of their family and only think of themselves.
Family and wife need not be viewed as a possession if one has become a sanyasi but they can be viewed as fellow Atmas that need help.

What is the use of preaching Manava Seva is Madhava Seva when these sanyasis never rendered any seva to the wife and kids they left?

Even in case of Swami Raghavendra he left his wife and child and the wife had no means to bring up the child due to poverty and ended up committing suicide.

Why didn't he make sure his family was financially secure before taking up sanyas?

I feel any married man who wants to take up sanyas at a young age should be man enough to make sure they get their wives remarried and kids are financially secure.

He has to think of his young wife's emotional, physical needs and also the need for a father figure for his children.

So a true Patni Vrat man should make sure he fulfills all these conditions before sailing in the ocean of bliss.

renukaji

I am surprised to see you also started discussing about the Maha Satis listed by MA Sita in your post answering some other post.

This OP started by me is not intended to discuss about it but to get the opinions about "how Pathi Virtha Dharma is to followed in Kaliyuga and is this also Applicable to Husbands as "PATHINI VIRTHA"
Please once again go through my OP.

No sane person can answer questions like "Why did not Sita refer to Nalaayini w/o maudgalya (in whose name there is a gotra too)?"
Also this portion "Secondly, how do we define an "irresponsible husband"? Shri Abhay Charan De -who became Bhaktivedanta - left his wife and children to become a sanyasi, can he be called a "responsible" husband? Why quote his advice about "Patnee Vratam"?
is irrelevant to OP.

I ignore such questions because it deserves no answer.

 

[renuka]

renukaji

I am surprised to see you also started discussing about the Maha Satis listed by MA Sita in your post answering some other post.

This OP started by me is not intended to discuss about it but to get the opinions about "how Pathi Virtha Dharma is to followed in Kaliyuga and is this also Applicable to Husbands as "PATHINI VIRTHA"
Please once again go through my OP.

No sane person can answer questions like "Why did not Sita refer to Nalaayini w/o maudgalya (in whose name there is a gotra too)?"
Also this portion "Secondly, how do we define an "irresponsible husband"? Shri Abhay Charan De -who became Bhaktivedanta - left his wife and children to become a sanyasi, can he be called a "responsible" husband? Why quote his advice about "Patnee Vratam"?
is irrelevant to OP.

I ignore such questions because it deserves no answer.

Dear Sir,

I do not feel any question in this thread is irrelevant..when the discussion is about Patni Vrat men invariably Pati Vrat women will be dragged in cos a man and woman need each other in order to be known as Pati or Patni.

No single as in unmarried person is conferred this status of Pati/Patni..so when there is Pati there is a Patni and vice versa.

I also feel it is a valid reason that advice should be coming from those who set examples.

If a person left his wife and kids..how can he give lecture on Pati Vrat and responsible/irresponsible husbands.

How to trust the words of such a person?

It will be like the case of 900 chuhe khake billi haj ko chali.

(Cat went to pray(haj) after eating 900 rats)

 

[renuka]

Dear PJ sir,

I feel we should not restrict ourselves from questioning anything..once some ISCKON devotee was reading out some ISCKON text where one of their Gurus before Prabhupada said that "women are generally not trustworthy and should not be trusted"

So I had asked the person.."when our mother tells us who our father is.. we trust her word till the day we die. So why does the Guruji still say women are generally not trustworthy?"

So in the same manner we should question anything that is relevant.

 

[P.J.]

Dear Sir,

I do not feel any question in this thread is irrelevant..when the discussion is about Patni Vrat men invariably Pati Vrat women will be dragged in cos a man and woman need each other in order to be known as Pati or Patni.

No single as in unmarried person is conferred this status of Pati/Patni..so when there is Pati there is a Patni and vice versa.

I also feel it is a valid reason that advice should be coming from those who set examples.

If a person left his wife and kids..how can he give lecture on Pati Vrat and responsible/irresponsible husbands.

How to trust the words of such a person?

It will be like the case of 900 chuhe khake billi haj ko chali.

(Cat went to pray(haj) after eating 900 rats)

renukaji

Again you misunderstood me.
Yes, Pathi Virtha is also applicable to husbands to observe Pathini Virtha
Pl read my Op.
It is for asking that opinion about Pathi and Pathini and their role in observing this dharma.

If an insane question like "Why did not Sita refer to Nalaayini w/o maudgalya (in whose name there is a gotra too)?"
Also this portion "Secondly, how do we define an "irresponsible husband"? Shri Abhay Charan De -who became Bhaktivedanta - left his wife and children to become a sanyasi, can he be called a "responsible" husband? Why quote his advice about "Patnee Vratam"?

no one can answer; these types of questions are not relevant.

That is the reason i deleted the first portion of my Op which is irrelevant to this topic.

 

[P.J.]

renukaji
my sincere request to you
Pl go through my OP again.
Do not assume my OP from other insane posts.

 

[renuka]

PATHINI VRATHA DHARMA For MEN





But what does it mean in Kaliyuga?
It means Chaste and loyal to the husband.

Pativratha dharma is not meant for women alone, it is also for men.
It is PATHINI VRATHA DHARMA for them


"It is not that a chaste woman should be a slave while her husband is naradhama, the lowest of men. Although the duties of a woman are different from those of a man, a chaste woman is not meant to serve a fallen [irresponsible] husband."
A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

Since the First part of my OP has nothing to do with my post, i deleted .
My intention was to get opinion on Pathi Virtha Dharma In Kaliyuga and whether it is applicable to Husbands also?
Hope members understand this.

Dear Sir,

I went through your post again as you requested..

So your discussion is "Patni Vrat Dharma..is it applicable to males too?"

Ok here is my opinion:


Sir when better word it as Eka Patni Vrat cos leaving it without the word Eka in front people might think that a man can be Vrat to one wife at a time...that is if he is having more than 1 wife..on 2 different occasions he can be Vrat to each one his wife.

BTW in Kaliyuga I feel most Hindu men are Eka Patni Vrat becos of the following reasons:

1)Bigamy/polygamy is not permitted by law

2)Lack of opportunity.. as it is many have no chance to fall in love! Ha Ha Ha... so where is the question of having more than 1 wife.

3)Lack of resources to maintain more than one Veedu.

4)Too much stress if Periya Veedu and Chinna Veedu fights erupt.

5)Most men can't stand their wives nagging..so imagine if more than 1 wife..double or multiple doses of nagging to hear.