Please Enlighten me on this

[Vaagmi]

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So Thumbikai Alwar is only a Kalyana Guna of God!! Vaishnavas have given the roopam of Pillayar for that!!
Nothing to do with Lord Vinayaka!!

What a Twist!!

Sri Mahavishnu's Rupam itself is Kalayana Guna Roopam,
There is no necessity to reduce it in the form of another Roopam and give a name to it as 'Thumbikai Alwar'

Dear PJ,

I give up. Thanks.

 

[tbs]

hi paddhu sir,

just a thought ...i may be wrong too....vaishnavas has ONLY 12 ALWARS.....not anymore recognised ALWARS....like SRI RAMANUJA

CONVERTED MANY MANY NON BRHMINS INTO HIS FOLD AS BRAHMANAS....MAY BE SOME VAISHNAVAS CONVERTED MAHAGANAPATI

INTO VAISHNAVA SWAROOPAM ...PUTTING NAAMA, WITH SANKU /CHAKRAM AND CALLED THIMBIKKAI ALWAR....

 

[P.J.]

tbs Sir

Putting Thirunamam on Pillayar and calling him as Thumbikai Alwar has a reason.

"Samasrayanam" is the process of a Guru/Acharya initiating a person into the family of SriVaishnavites.

Jeeyar initiates this process by heating the emblems of Maha Vishnu i.e the Chakra and the Conch and embossing them on the arms of the devotee.

Every Iyengar goes through this ritual!!

Why Sangu(Conch) and Chakra??Why not anything else??
Sangu(Conch) - represents auspisciousness
Chakra - wards off all evil.
A person who has undergone this ceremonial branding is expected to lead a pious life, giving up all materialistic pleasures.

So much for Samarayanam. Lets have a look at Bharanyasam.


Bharanyasam is derived from the Sanskrit word "Bhaaram" meaning burden.
The whole purpose of this ceremony is to remove all burdens from your shoulders and surrender yourself to God.A devotee having undergone Bharanyaasam is expected to completely surrender himself to Maha Vishnu!

This is a total and unconditional surrender to the Supreme Being.In simpler terms,it means that you have realised that Maha Vishnu is the ultimate truth.

We all must be familiar with the concept of "Confessions" in Christianity.This is something similar to that.You ask the Lord to relieve you of all your sins and also promise Him that you will henceforth stick to the path of Dharma.


But of course,there are certain clauses that a devotee is expected to adhere to.
For example,He/She is forbidden from worshipping any other God than Maha Vishnu.!!

Aren't all forms of God supposed to be equal?Why do we earthly beings have to discriminate among the various manifestations of the Supreme Being?

The answer to this question is in itself another question
You have completely surrendered to Vishnu.He has promised to liberate you from the cycle of birth and death.You have realised that He is the ultimate truth!
Why worry about anything else then? Hmm..Simple enough!

NOW do you understand why Vaisnavas want to worship Lord Vinayaka in a Form of Alwar in the name of “ THUMBIKAI ALWAR” ?
Random Musings of a Confused Mind: Significance of Samasrayanam/Bharanyasam

 

[Nara]

....just a thought ...i may be wrong too....vaishnavas has ONLY 12 ALWARS.....not anymore recognised ALWARS....like SRI RAMANUJA

Dear tbs sir, once again I have to beg your pardon for contradicting you. Strictly speaking, there are only 10 Azhvars, Swami Sri Desikan says so himself. Andal is Piraatti amsam and Madhurakavi only sang in praise of Nammazhvar, not Sriman Narayana.

Also, after the 12 that have come to be recognized as Azhvars, we still have Koorathu Azhvan, a shishya of bhagavat Ramanuja.

In other words, even though the 12 Azhvars have a special place in the hearts of all SVs, the appellation Azhvar or Azhvan can be conferred upon others and have been done off and on.

CONVERTED MANY MANY NON BRHMINS INTO HIS FOLD AS BRAHMANAS....

This is completely false, Bhagavat Ramanuja did convert a lot of people to Sri Vasihnavam, and he did introduce reforms to the existing tyrannical Brahminical system. Even those modest reforms must have seemed quite radical at the time. But, he never converted anyone who was not a Brahmin to be a Brahmana, not a single one -- he was too committed to the Manu Dharmashastra to do anything like that. There is a completely mistaken view that Thenkalai Iyengars are those NBs converted to Brahminhood by Bhagavat Ramanuja. This is a canard, probably perpetuated by Vadakalai Iyengars.

MAY BE SOME VAISHNAVAS CONVERTED MAHAGANAPATI INTO VAISHNAVA SWAROOPAM ...PUTTING NAAMA, WITH SANKU /CHAKRAM AND CALLED THIMBIKKAI ALWAR....

Well, this I have to give you, you are probably correct. Orthodox SVs do not care for Mahaganapathy or the newly found Thumbikkai Azhvar -- there is no mention of a Thumbikkai Azhvar in any of the SV texts. The introduction of Thumbikkai Azhvar is most probably to cater to masses who seem to have an affinity for the lovable deity who is plump and cuddly and would remove all obstacles that stand in the way of passing an exam or getting that coveted job, etc.

best regards and wishes, Dileepan

 

[Nara]

...Jeeyar initiates this process by heating the emblems of Maha Vishnu i.e the Chakra and the Conch and embossing them on the arms of the devotee.

Dear PJ, your presentation is mostly correct, I may have worded a few things differently, but that would be for reasons of technicality about which most people may not care.

But, I have to correct couple of major errors. Samasrayanam is done by one's acharya, who can even be a family elder who received this authority from his ancestors. Bhagavat Ramanuja established 78 Simhasanaapathees and vested them with the authority to initiate aspiring individuals into SV. A few of these original 78 authorities have cascaded down to the Jeeyars, but there are many more Acharyas with authority to perform Samasrayanam in many SV families. They are collectively called Swayamacharyas.

Then, the requirement of Bharanyasam for transcending samsara into moksham is only for Vadakalai, Thenkalais argue the mere fact of getting initiated into SV via Samasrayanam unburdens the responsibility to ascend to Sri Vaikuntam upon the shoulders of Sriman Narayana. This is often referred to as cat and monkey logic.

best wishes, Dileepan

 

[renuka]

I dont know why but I cant help comparing Vaishnaism with a particular Abrahamic faith which also says;

1)There is only One God

2)There are 10 prophets



See Vaishnavaism too has the same thinking;

1)There is only Vishnu

2)There are 10 Alwars.

 

[Govinda]

Lord Vinayaka in Sri Vishnu Temples are called ' THUMBIKAI ALWAR"; why it is so ?

I came across this link which says In Vishnu Temples, Lords senathipathi (the Army Leader) is called as Visvaksenar. He control over the Vishnu's army, He has 4 subordinates. One of them has Face of Elephant. So we call him as Thumbikai Alwar.

Looks like, you pretty much have the info.

Swami Desika offers his pranams to Shri Vishvaksena thus:

"Let me pay my humble adorations to the Lord Vishvaksena(Senaimudaliyar), the commander-in-chief of all the celestial forces of Lord Sriman Narayana, who has for his beloved consort Goddess Sutravati, and at the movement of whose vetra (Whip) -tip this whole cosmosis just established as what it is."

Mudali (முதலி) means the chief in the Army. The Mudaliars (caste) were originally chola-chieftains.

Sri Parasara Bhattar's SriRangarajastavam refers to the sloka,

'vidadhatu sukham vishvaksenasya te prathame bhatah
karimukha jayatsenau kalahvasimhamukhau cha nahjagati bhajatam...'

Meaning: The chief Generals of the commander-in-chief Sri Vishvaksenar,namely Karimukha (elephant faced), Jayatsena, Kala and Simhamukha (lion faced)are ever vigilant day and night all around in guarding SriRangam. They remove the personal obstacles of the devotees of SriRanga. They are the forest fires for the cotton bales of impediments of the devotees. May they bless us with bliss.

Sri Vishvaksena Samhita, Lakshmi Tantra seems to describe and glorify Sri Vishvaksena. As a nithyasUri, He must be having four arms, with Sanku/Chakra and a whip. Sudarshana/Chakrat-Alwar, Garuda-Alwar- like nityasUris even have two fang-like sharp teeth.

They are ever free from karma, and are kainkarya-parAr's of the Lord. Plus, Lord takes 5 different forms for the creation and lIla. Only these nityasUris can see the Transcendental (Omniscient/Pure-form/Bhagavan with 6 unique qualities) 'Para' form and the Vyuha forms (combos of 6 qualities) - Pradyumna, Aniruddha, Sankarshana (pre-Vishnu/Brahma/Rudra) forms.

The third form of Vibhava (AvatArs) can be seen by other gods and rishis/sages. The AntaryAmi , in the hearts can be seen by Yogis/SiddhAs. We, bhaddha/SamsAric/Karma jIvas cannot seen any of these, so we have the arca-murthi form.

 

[Govinda]

contd...

ALwAr (ஆள்வார்) means 'Who rules' and AzhwAr (ஆழவார்) means 'who is deeply involved'.

Those who are deeply involved in contempalting the KalyAna-gunAs of the Lord are 'AzhwArs'. Divya-prabhanda poets are the standard Azhwars, but all the nitya-sooris and all poets (Annamayya, Kambar, etc. ) can also be called Azhwars. These poets have also ruled our hearts, and can be called ALwars. As the nitya-sURis are also involved in governance, they only can be called ALwars, in the sense of rulership.

AlwArs are considered to be incarnation of Lord's weapons - Chakra (Tirumazhisai), Sangu, Nandaki sword (Annamayya) etc. AzhwArs are more interested in devotion. AchAryAs are the ones who initiate the devotees into sampradAyic tradition, and are knowledge-givers. Even those AchAryAs can be nitya-sUris, doing service at the will of the Lord.

Srirangam was built by Tirumangai AZhwAr. As early as Nathamuni period, Sri Rangam was a vaishavite sthala. CholAs like Killivalavan, Dharma Verma have built the shrines also. Later the temple had the patronage of DevarAya, Telugu kings .

 

[P.J.]

Looks like, you pretty much have the info.

Swami Desika offers his pranams to Shri Vishvaksena thus:

"Let me pay my humble adorations to the Lord Vishvaksena(Senaimudaliyar), the commander-in-chief of all the celestial forces of Lord Sriman Narayana, who has for his beloved consort Goddess Sutravati, and at the movement of whose vetra (Whip) -tip this whole cosmosis just established as what it is."

Mudali (முதலி) means the chief in the Army. The Mudaliars (caste) were originally chola-chieftains.

Sri Parasara Bhattar's SriRangarajastavam refers to the sloka,

'vidadhatu sukham vishvaksenasya te prathame bhatah
karimukha jayatsenau kalahvasimhamukhau cha nahjagati bhajatam...'

Meaning: The chief Generals of the commander-in-chief Sri Vishvaksenar,namely Karimukha (elephant faced), Jayatsena, Kala and Simhamukha (lion faced)are ever vigilant day and night all around in guarding SriRangam. They remove the personal obstacles of the devotees of SriRanga. They are the forest fires for the cotton bales of impediments of the devotees. May they bless us with bliss.

Sri Vishvaksena Samhita, Lakshmi Tantra seems to describe and glorify Sri Vishvaksena. As a nithyasUri, He must be having four arms, with Sanku/Chakra and a whip. Sudarshana/Chakrat-Alwar, Garuda-Alwar- like nityasUris even have two fang-like sharp teeth.

Sri.Govinda Sir
An excellent Explanation from you, thanks

Please read here :





“ [FONT=&quot]அசேஷ விக்நசமநம் அநீகேஸ்வரமாச்ரயே [/FONT]l[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]ஸ்ரீமத் கருணாம் போதௌ சிக்ஷாஸ்ரோத இவோத்திதம் [/FONT]ll “



[FONT=&quot]இந்த ஸ்லோகத்தின் பொருளென்ன [/FONT]?


[FONT=&quot]இதன் பொருள்,[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]“ [FONT=&quot]இவரது சேனைகள் பகவானையே நம்பி அவரிடத்தில் பக்தி செலுத்துபவர்களுக்கு[/FONT], [FONT=&quot]ஏற்படும் விக்னங்களை எல்லாம் போக்குவதற்கே ஏற்பட்டவர்கள். எல்லா வைதீகக் காரி-யங்களையும் தொடங்குமுன்னர்[/FONT], [FONT=&quot]வைஷ்ணவர்கள் விஷ்வக்ஸேநரை வண-ங்கிவிட்டேத் தொடங்குவர்[/FONT].

[/FONT]



[FONT=&quot]அநேகமாக எல்லாப் பெருமாள் கோயில்களிலும் இந்த விஷ்வக்ஸேநரை[/FONT], [FONT=&quot]ஆழ்வார்கள்[/FONT], [FONT=&quot]ஆச்சார்யர்கள் சந்நிகளில்தான் காணமுடியும்.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]ஆனால் சிலர் விஷ்ணு ஆலயங்களில்[/FONT], [FONT=&quot]பிராஹாரத்தில் தும்பிக்கையுடன் காணப்படுபவரையே விஷ்வக்ஸேநர் என்று நம்பிக்கொண்டு இருக்-கின்றனர். மற்றும் சிலர்[/FONT], [FONT=&quot]அவரை பார்வதி புத்திரன் விநாயகர் என்று கருதி அவருக்கு தோப்புகரணம் போடுவர். அவையெல்லாமே தவறு.

[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]அப்படியென்றால் துதிக்கையுடன் காணப்படும் அவர்தான் யார் [/FONT]?[FONT=&quot]. அவர்தான் [/FONT]“ [FONT=&quot]கஜாநநன்[/FONT] “[FONT=&quot] என்று அழைக்கப்படும்[/FONT],[FONT=&quot] விஷ்வக்ஸேநருக்குக் கீழ் பணிபுரியும் அநேகப் படைத் தலைவர்களுள் ஒருவர். ஜயத்ஸேநன்[/FONT], [FONT=&quot]ஹரி-வக்த்ரர்[/FONT], [FONT=&quot]காலப்ரக்ருதி போன்ற படைத் தலைவர்களுள் முதன்மையானவர். இவருடைய முக்யவேலை திருக்கோயில்களை பராமரிப்பது[/FONT], [FONT=&quot]கோயிலுக்கு வந்து போவோர்களைக் கண்காணிப்பது[/FONT], [FONT=&quot]கோயிலைத் தூய்மையாக வைத்-துக் கொள்வது போன்றவையாகும்.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]அது சரி [/FONT]! [FONT=&quot]இவரை ஆச்சார்யர்கள்[/FONT], [FONT=&quot]ஆழ்வார்கள் சந்நிதியில் ஏன் எழுந்த[/FONT]-[FONT=&quot]ருளப் பண்ணுகிறார்கள் என்பதுதானே உங்கள் கேள்வி [/FONT]?[FONT=&quot] [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]காரணம்[/FONT],

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]ஸ்ரீவைஷ்ணவ சித்தாந்தப்படி[/FONT], [FONT=&quot]நமக்கு முதல் ஆச்சார்யன் [/FONT]( [FONT=&quot]குரு[/FONT] )[FONT=&quot] ஸ்ரீமந் நாராயணன்[/FONT], [FONT=&quot]அவர் தாயாருக்கு [/FONT]( [FONT=&quot]ஸ்ரீதேவிக்கு[/FONT] )[FONT=&quot] வேதங்களை உபதேஸிக்க[/FONT], [FONT=&quot]அவர் விஷ்வக்ஸேநருக்கு உபதேஸித்தாராம். ஆக விஷ்வக்ஸேநர் ஆச்சார்ய பரம் பரையில் மூன்றாவது இடத்தை வகிக்கின்றார்[/FONT].

[FONT=&quot]Source:?????????????: ???????????
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