Prepared by Brahmins

[Raji Ram]

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Dear Krish Sir,

There is no use 'educating' our conservative forum members. They won't listen to you! :nono:
High time you become 'KrishnAnandhA' and lead a religion-less, caste-less society! :grouphug:
OMG! You have to change your name because Krishna is the God of Vaishnavites. ray:

Suggestions: LokAnandha / ParamAnandhA / ViswAnandhA.

 

[prasad1]

Caste-less society is a pink unicorn with wings which flies at speeds exceeding F-16 Tomcat supersonic fighter plane.

a practical and reachable goal will be a society with castes without the obnoxious superior/inferior totem pole positions and the accompanying untouchability, two tumbler system etc., etc.,

Please get down from your utopian revolutionary heights and come down to flat land so that you can make progress.

LOL.

In India caste is ingrained. It has become a vote bank issue. I too wish that caste designations will go away, but it will not happen.
I also agree that there will be other class distinction. Human beings like to belong to a select groupings.

 

[Vaagmi]

In India caste is ingrained. It has become a vote bank issue. I too wish that caste designations will go away, but it will not happen.
I also agree that there will be other class distinction. Human beings like to belong to a select groupings.

prasadji,

That was realism. I appreciate your maturity. for armchair revolutionaries caste is a point on which they deliver eloquent blah blah (refer post # 25).

Castes are a recognition of differences between groups of people. The discrepancy that goes with castes upto untouchability is unique to Indian society and it is unnecessary load that can be jettisoned if the militant middle castes have a change of mind. You tell an american that there is no way to differentiate between an american of European origin, one of African origin, one of Indian origin and one of Chinese origin and one of Native Indian origin he will give you a curious stare and move away. Our oldies here are so much brought up on the diet of anti-brahmin rhetoric that they can not live without a dose of it at least in a mild form concealing it in anti casteism rhetoric.

At the first opportunity they will lecture to you that a casteless society is a desirable one, that it is the solution for everything under the sun etc., variety and the natural beauty in that chaos is something they can never understand or at least never even pretend to understand.

castelessness is unnatural. It is against the basic human tendencies.

when someone like me speaks this truth, I will be branded conservative TB (refer post # 26), or a casteist TB or even worse an orthodox stupid paappaan. I dont care. I enjoy that branding. LOL.

 

[prasad1]

prasadji,

That was realism. I appreciate your maturity. for armchair revolutionaries caste is a point on which they deliver eloquent blah blah (refer post # 25).

Castes are a recognition of differences between groups of people. The discrepancy that goes with castes up to untouchability is unique to Indian society and it is unnecessary load that can be jettisoned if the militant middle castes have a change of mind. You tell an american that there is no way to differentiate between an american of European origin, one of African origin, one of Indian origin and one of Chinese origin and one of Native Indian origin he will give you a curious stare and move away. Our oldies here are so much brought up on the diet of anti-brahmin rhetoric that they can not live without a dose of it at least in a mild form concealing it in anti casteism rhetoric.

At the first opportunity they will lecture to you that a casteless society is a desirable one, that it is the solution for everything under the sun etc., variety and the natural beauty in that chaos is something they can never understand or at least never even pretend to understand.

castelessness is unnatural. It is against the basic human tendencies.

when someone like me speaks this truth, I will be branded conservative TB (refer post # 26), or a casteist TB or even worse an orthodox stupid paappaan. I dont care. I enjoy that branding. LOL.

I agree with your post.
But I do have problem with this caste based grouping as it is based on birth and not on merit. Caste discrimination is codified, were as other groupings you can move in and out of freewill. I agree that my ancestors came from Tamil speaking speaking people. I do speak that language. But i do not discriminate against Hindi speaking person.
i liked what you wrote can be accomplished:

without the obnoxious superior/inferior totem pole positions and the accompanying untouchability, two tumbler system etc., etc.,

 

[krish44]

political parties come up based on the requirements of society

dravidian parties came up to challenge the privileges of brahmin caste and reduced them to non entities.

AAP has come up to evolve a casteless order where the class of people -namely rich or poor will decide which class

one will belong to.. more such parties will emerge to make caste an irrelevant issue over the years. one can already the old type politics of caste intermediates such as RJD or samajwadi have lost their appeal

more AAP type parties not based on caste will emerge and bring changes to society. today it isianti corruption Anna movement.

tomorrow it will be against caste.

 

[Vaagmi]

I agree with your post.
But I do have problem with this caste based grouping as it is based on birth and not on merit. Caste discrimination is codified, were as other groupings you can move in and out of freewill. I agree that my ancestors came from Tamil speaking speaking people. I do speak that language. But i do not discriminate against Hindi speaking person.
i liked what you wrote can be accomplished:

prasadji,

my position briefly(?) stated will be this:

1. I do not believe in homogenization of the society in the name of egalitarianism. Variety has a beauty in its chaos. It is natural and generic and that is the reason why there is beauty in it. If people who advocate homogenization succeed we will have a world of crash dummies and not humans. And that will be a terribly boring world.

2. Discrimination is a product of time as the society evolved and in today's world it is an anachronism. As the society evolves further the discrimination will disappear while the essential heterogeneity will remain.

3. All major differences are birth based. Take color of skin, racial stock, physical features, culture and orientations, even height and allergies everything is birth based. We can not do anything about this. we live with it because we can not convert a yellow skin into black or white. It is better to accept these differences and live with them. Saying that racial discrimination should go is not the same as saying we should have a race-less society. The former is possible while the latter is impossible, tilting at the windmill. Also a black or an yellow cannot move in and out of white at free will. Looking at its entirety caste is also birth-based. Why not accept and live with it after defanging it of its poisonous discriminatory fangs.

4. Devoid of the higher and lower totemic positions, there is nothing bad about castes. There is rather a lot of scope to contribute a lot to the society. But the whole thing is so mired in politics and hatred that even sensible individuals think that throwing the baby with bathwater is okay. And our middle caste politicians wont allow us to live with castes peacefully. They need castes more than anyone else. They need it for survival. They need it for votes and the power and pelf that flows from votes. They need it badly for keeping down an irrepressible community group. They need it to get their periodic high from the hatred opiate. No one politician so far has ever worked for the eradication of discrimination. They all have the eradication of castes as their holy goal because that kindles emotions and captures imagination of the masses. And voting machines keep clicking. So the duty is done with delivering a few punches on brahmins or robbing them of their legitimate rights one by one. After that they go about burning hapless children of dalits in their sleep (Kizhvenmony village) pulling out the dalit women of tribal villages and raping them all (Vachati tribal outrage) and keep serving dalits tea/arrack under a two tumbler system endlessly--just a few to quote from among many such acts of horror.

In my opinion those who wax eloquent about caste eradication or caste-less society are all hypocrites.

 

[sarang]

At least there is one prominent organization, one of many Hindu service orgs, RSS, which does not ask its members their varna-jati-kula-caste affiliation, either at the time of joining or at any time. Varna jati belongingness is at personal level. Varna-jati system has survived for ages adjusting and modifying to combat and suit social and religious pressures. Will remain for ever, and they who exit will form their own misra groups, forced to face new problems, like Anglo Indians. Mixing and inter marriage is not a new phenomenon.

 

[renuka]

Frankly speaking a society with caste is no big deal..cos classifications of any kind are bound to happen in society but becos its mainly a birth based classification its seems to pose problems.

I feel as long everyone has equal socio-economic and education opportunities with mutual respect being the norm among the various castes without the need to feel superior or inferior....life should not be a problem.

After all almost everything is this world is birth based..a monkey is monkey..a donkey is a donkey and all these are birth based classifications!LOL

 

[Raji Ram]

............ After all almost everything is this world is birth based..a monkey is monkey. .......

See this page, Renu!

Images for varieties of monkey

 

[sarang]

Birth puts one in a particular group. He/she is free to fly to any other group. No one has disputed that. If the first group, excommunicates the run-aways, with the soulful song - 'engirunthalum vaazzha' it is fine; by the same take, 'ingu vandhu vaazha' is also fine when the incomer is ready to merge and dissolve. Intervarna and interjati marriages did happen - proof, hundreds of subsects.

 

[vgane]

more AAP type parties not based on caste will emerge and bring changes to society. today it isianti corruption Anna movement.

tomorrow it will be against caste.

Krishji,

It is a joke..Out of 7 Ministers in the AAP Cabinet, 40% are Banias...So the guys who normally fleece you for money are ruling Delhi...What is so casteless about that?

 

[renuka]

Birth puts one in a particular group. He/she is free to fly to any other group. No one has disputed that. If the first group, excommunicates the run-aways, with the soulful song - 'engirunthalum vaazzha' it is fine; by the same take, 'ingu vandhu vaazha' is also fine when the incomer is ready to merge and dissolve. Intervarna and interjati marriages did happen - proof, hundreds of subsects.

I feel no one can fly to any group cos we are born who we are.

That is for example I can only be myself first only then identify with any other classification.

When we enjoy being our own selves that is for example I am Renuka and that is who I am..so why do I need to give myself any other classification?

I think people should learn to love themselves more and ......their individuality and then the need to even identify with any group or caste does not even arise.

It might sound weird but at times its helpful to be Narcissistic..we just to have more mirrors around us..and love being Me,Myself and I.

 

[renuka]

See this page, Renu!

Images for varieties of monkey

Dear RR ji,

In another thread I was talking about pigs..here we are talking about monkeys....Feels so back to nature and feel in the jungle again!LOL

 

[prasad1]

prasadji,

my position briefly(?) stated will be this:

1. I do not believe in homogenization of the society in the name of egalitarianism. Variety has a beauty in its chaos. It is natural and generic and that is the reason why there is beauty in it. If people who advocate homogenization succeed we will have a world of crash dummies and not humans. And that will be a terribly boring world.

2. Discrimination is a product of time as the society evolved and in today's world it is an anachronism. As the society evolves further the discrimination will disappear while the essential heterogeneity will remain.

3. All major differences are birth based. Take color of skin, racial stock, physical features, culture and orientations, even height and allergies everything is birth based. We can not do anything about this. we live with it because we can not convert a yellow skin into black or white. It is better to accept these differences and live with them. Saying that racial discrimination should go is not the same as saying we should have a race-less society. The former is possible while the latter is impossible, tilting at the windmill. Also a black or an yellow cannot move in and out of white at free will. Looking at its entirety caste is also birth-based. Why not accept and live with it after defanging it of its poisonous discriminatory fangs.

4. Devoid of the higher and lower totemic positions, there is nothing bad about castes. There is rather a lot of scope to contribute a lot to the society. But the whole thing is so mired in politics and hatred that even sensible individuals think that throwing the baby with bathwater is okay. And our middle caste politicians wont allow us to live with castes peacefully. They need castes more than anyone else. They need it for survival. They need it for votes and the power and pelf that flows from votes. They need it badly for keeping down an irrepressible community group. They need it to get their periodic high from the hatred opiate. No one politician so far has ever worked for the eradication of discrimination. They all have the eradication of castes as their holy goal because that kindles emotions and captures imagination of the masses. And voting machines keep clicking. So the duty is done with delivering a few punches on brahmins or robbing them of their legitimate rights one by one. After that they go about burning hapless children of dalits in their sleep (Kizhvenmony village) pulling out the dalit women of tribal villages and raping them all (Vachati tribal outrage) and keep serving dalits tea/arrack under a two tumbler system endlessly--just a few to quote from among many such acts of horror.

In my opinion those who wax eloquent about caste eradication or caste-less society are all hypocrites.

Sorry that we are dragging this thread towards Caste system.

I agree that caste is a grouping. But when there is institutional discrimination and preferences based on caste that is wrong. I agree it will be difficult to change that in India. I am against quota based on any criteria. I can understand the government shaping the composition of work force, but preferences should be purely based on merit.

 

[krish44]

Giving out various reasoning justifying the caste system using flowery language does not take away the simple fact

vaagmiji , you are a hard core casteist.

you find beauty in heterogenity in caste system and are trying to rationalise that differences are always based on

accident of birth.

if you belonged to to a caste which is lower in social scale , you would not talk like this.

further you think politicians are responsible for all evils associated related to casteism

these are the opinions of a higher caste who has a vested interest in continuation of the caste system and trying to take

a higher moral stance for continuing with casteist ideas.

this cannot go on for long.

a better order will evolve where people supporting caste and practise casteism will stand exposed and will be

marginalised in society .Those days are not very far away.

 

[sarang]

Casteism will vanish if we ban the word 'caste' of Portuguese origin from our records and speech. We are better off with our varna, jati, kula heritage. There is no negative baggage for these terms and the carriers.

 

[sarang]

Our constitution does not demand abolition of 'caste'. Isn't it the final word for reformers?

 

[prasad1]

[h=1]Bury your head in the sand meaning[/h]Refuse to confront or acknowledge a problem.

'so mind-bogglingly stupid that it assumes that if you can't see it, then it can't see you.'

 

[Vaagmi]

Giving out various reasoning justifying the caste system using flowery language does not take away the simple fact

vaagmiji , you are a hard core casteist.

you find beauty in heterogenity in caste system and are trying to rationalise that differences are always based on

accident of birth.

if you belonged to to a caste which is lower in social scale , you would not talk like this.

further you think politicians are responsible for all evils associated related to casteism

these are the opinions of a higher caste who has a vested interest in continuation of the caste system and trying to take

a higher moral stance for continuing with casteist ideas.

this cannot go on for long.

a better order will evolve where people supporting caste and practise casteism will stand exposed and will be

marginalised in society .Those days are not very far away.

Krishji,
I do not expect anything better from an old man who has chosen to become an armchair revolutionary after finding that young ones do not listen any more. I understand the basic need to join them when you cannot beat them so that you can keep yourself together without breaking down. I have no complaints. You can call me any ........ist. LOL.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Sarang Sir,

jAti = caste, as far as I know. Google translate confirms. (though many translations are not good!)

 

[krish44]

Krishji,
I do not expect anything better from an old man who has chosen to become an armchair revolutionary after finding that young ones do not listen any more. I understand the basic need to join them when you cannot beat them so that you can keep yourself together without breaking down. I have no complaints. You can call me any ........ist. LOL.

most revolutions start out of idle reflections on a free afternoon.

I have a huge circle of youngsters who flock to me when they are in trouble regarding choice of mate and unreasonable parents.

I take extra delight in helping them defy caste and community barriers.

it is the conventional oldies who live in fear of their children and break down when their children desert them for better pastures in foreign lands

they take solace in their outdated caste rituals and talk of glory of their ancestors. they spend their last years in remote agraharams living in their dream world


of higher caste superiority

 

[Raji Ram]

............ I have a huge circle of youngsters who flock to me when they are in trouble regarding choice of mate and unreasonable parents.

I take extra delight in helping them defy caste and community barriers. ..........

:clap2: You WILL help them, Krish Sir, because your children are safely married to brahmins.

Has any youngster approached you before you became a father in law? :noidea:

 

[krish44]

Of course yes

Even my own brother in law approached me to tell he is marrying a christian without consent of his parents. in fact I had to face the music from my inlaws for this , for

keeping quiet and tacitly becoming a party to it.this was more than 25 years back and I was more militant then. now I have mellowed.

Now I try to convince the parents to yield to the choice of youngsters.

 

[Raji Ram]

You are a real preacher, Krish Sir!

I mean, oorukku upadhEsam! :thumb:

 

[krish44]

You are a real preacher, Krish Sir!

I mean, oorukku upadhEsam! :thumb:

LOL. keep it up

your posts keep me fully entertained.

Rarely one gets a chance to sermonise both the young and the old.

I fish for such oppurtunities.

If I get a chance, I normally do not let go.