Puppets in the hands of?

[suraju06]

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Dear Sangom Sir,

But, in the context of NCs, PCs and MCs do you not agree that the MCs align more towards change than no-change? Hence, I feel irrespective of whatever view an individual MC may hold on the above items, he/she is willing to change along with the society. In that scenario, the views on some particular topics will hardly matter, don't you agree?

It appears as though you are looking at the brahmin community as a continuous spectrum in which at one end is NCs and the other end the PCs and in between the MCs in a continuum all at some point overlapping each other. I do not look at it that way. In my view the MCs are not in an inexorable continuous move to merge with the PCs. MCs are clear as to what they will take and what they will reject from what the march of time offers. They are not people who clap with child like wonder at the thrill and euphoria that the 'change per se' offers. They measure carefully the need for each change and take what they consider worthy and leave others and prefer to live in the old style which in their opinion is better than what is offered by change. Naturally in this they align more to the NC band than to the PC band as they consider any push to the later will be like succumbing to a fatal attraction. In this let us agree to disagree and move forward.

Your questioning the apaurusheyathvam of the vedas is a very vast and serious subject which will need a very elaborate discussion. Let us see.

 

[sravna]

The reason I mentioned the two camps among brahmins is to point out that there need not be an antagonism between the timeless values and those that pertain to a particular time and they can work in harmony towards the overall cause. One is not a threat to the other. A social system which achieves the above harmony can be said to be a well designed one. It recognizes the real basis of differences among humans which in my opinion was correctly identified as in the ability to access higher knowledge. The classification by itself is not only a natural one to make but also throws up reformers among the enlightened ones when the system sways away from its course thus making it self corrective.

Contrast this with the present class system based on the differences in wealth. There is a lot less concern for human dignity at the top and the system tends to be totally discriminatory. It is not only NOT self-corrective but becomes worse with time as rich want to become richer which makes it more and more discriminatory. The problem is that the basis of classification is one that vitiates values and hence self destructive whereas the varna classification the basis is on one that upholds values and hence resilient.

The pro-changers are a natural outcome of a system that has the checks and balances.

 

[sangom]

Dear Sangom Sir,

It appears as though you are looking at the brahmin community as a continuous spectrum in which at one end is NCs and the other end the PCs and in between the MCs in a continuum all at some point overlapping each other. I do not look at it that way. In my view the MCs are not in an inexorable continuous move to merge with the PCs. MCs are clear as to what they will take and what they will reject from what the march of time offers. They are not people who clap with child like wonder at the thrill and euphoria that the 'change per se' offers. They measure carefully the need for each change and take what they consider worthy and leave others and prefer to live in the old style which in their opinion is better than what is offered by change. Naturally in this they align more to the NC band than to the PC band as they consider any push to the later will be like succumbing to a fatal attraction. In this let us agree to disagree and move forward.

Your questioning the apaurusheyathvam of the vedas is a very vast and serious subject which will need a very elaborate discussion. Let us see.

Shri Raju,

Though you have suggested "let us agree to disagree and move forward" I am interested in knowing a few examples of the items which the MCs "measure carefully the need for each change and take what they consider worthy and leave others and prefer to live in the old style which in their opinion is better than what is offered by change" and have so held on for the last hundred years; I am of the feeling that the MCs will of course weigh, evaluate and all, but, when forced by circumstances, they will willingly leave whatever they were clinging to, or, modify it in such drastic ways even, that what they do/perform will have very little likeness to what it originally was before. That is why I would like to know certain examples of "unchanged" rite/ritual.

Hope you will commence a new thread on "apourusheyatvam" of vedas. But let me tell you first itself that citing some pronouncements from various religious texts to that effect will not be sufficient for convincing me. It has to be evidence from the vedic texts themselves which will compel one to believe that it could not have been compiled by any mortal and ought to have come from a super-human, supernatural source.

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

TO All,
APASTHAMBA SUTR I PRASNA I PATALA I KHANDA 2 mentions that to study ALL 4 Vedas
it takes 48 years. A quarter less-36 years, Less by Half-24 years, three quarter less 12 years.
Apasthamba said 12 years minimum for learning(ONE VEDA)
My question for all those who have learnt Vedas of their lineage in modern times,how much time does it take to learn one Veda.Do people still study for 12 years?
Courtesy: Dr.Praveen Kaudlay(VIPRA SAMHITHA)

Dear Shri.Sangom,
I am a lay man and I have no knowledge of any Scriptures,except that my ancestors are followers of three RISHIS--VASISTA,MAITHRA VARUNA and KAUNDINYA and we follow yajur veda and Apasthamba sutra.
Vedas are considered Sacred Texts by followers of Sanathana Dharma not only in INDIA but by All followers of SDthroughout the world.I want to know(without meaning any offence to you personally) the basis for your observations about Vedas in post No;24.
While I appreciate and acknowledge that you are a learned Scholar,I would like to know whether you have learned all the 4 vedas and mastered them according to the time schedule mentioned by Dr.Praveen Kaudlay in Viprasamhitha.

 

[sangom]

It recognizes the real basis of differences among humans which in my opinion was correctly identified as in the ability to access higher knowledge. The classification by itself is not only a natural one to make but also throws up reformers among the enlightened ones when the system sways away from its course thus making it self corrective.

Contrast this with the present class system based on the differences in wealth. There is a lot less concern for human dignity at the top and the system tends to be totally discriminatory. It is not only NOT self-corrective but becomes worse with time as rich want to become richer which makes it more and more discrminatory. The problem is that the basis of classification is only that vitiates values and hence self destructive whereas the varna classification the basis is on one that upholds values and hence resilient.

Shri Sravna,

You seem to assert that the timeless system "throws up reformers among the enlightened ones when the system sways away from its course thus making it self corrective". If this be true, how was it that the "varna" system - which, according to you is a very scientific one, and highly eclectic, etc. - was not corrected in course by any reformers down the line for more than thousand years when it had completely degraded into the caste system?

Is it not adequate proof, if proof is needed at all, that your assumption of enlightened ones coming as reformers in the "timeless" system is just a mirage, and nothing more?

 

[sravna]

Shri Sravna,

You seem to assert that the timeless system "throws up reformers among the enlightened ones when the system sways away from its course thus making it self corrective". If this be true, how was it that the "varna" system - which, according to you is a very scientific one, and highly eclectic, etc. - was not corrected in course by any reformers down the line for more than thousand years when it had completely degraded into the caste system?

Is it not adequate proof, if proof is needed at all, that your assumption of enlightened ones coming as reformers in the "timeless" system is just a mirage, and nothing more?

Dear Shri Sangom,

Social changes or reforms do not happen in a short period of time. Prejudices that get formed take the longest to correct.

Are you and other members in this forum who denounce and argue against the caste system not be considered reformers? And is this happening in the materialistic class system? Does anyone at the top there seriously want to think about reducing the gap between the rich and the poor?

 

[happyhindu]

Dear Shri Sravna,

While we speak of (what we think to be) 'reforms', we may also remember what has been prophecised (if we take the puranas to be verily the truth).

The verses below are from the Kalki Purana:

Those who are known as Dvijas are devoid of the Vedas, narrow-minded and always engaged in the service of the Sudras. They are fond of carnal desires, seller of religion, seller of the Vedas, untouchable and seller of juices. They sell meat, are cruel, engaged in sexual gratification and gratification of their appetite, attached to others' wives, drunk and producer of cross-breeds. They have a low life-span, mix with lowly people and consider their brother-in-law as the only friend. They like constant confrontation and are fond of argument, discontent, fond of jewellery, hair and style.

The wealthy are respected as high-born and Brahmins are respected only if they are lenders. Men are merciful only when they are unable to harm others; express displeasure towards the poor; talk excessively to express erudition and carry out religious work to be famous.

Monks are attached to homes in this Kali Yuga and the homeless are devoid of any morality. Men of this age deride their teachers, display false religious affinity but tricks the good people. Sudras in Koli are always engaged in taking over others' possessions.

In kaliyuga marriage takes place simply because the man and the woman agree to do so. Men engages in friendship with the crooked and show magnanimity while returning favours. Men are considered pious only if they are wealthy and treat only far-away waters (lands) as places of pilgrimage.

Men are considered Brahmins simply because they have the sacred thread around their body and as explorers, simply because they have a stick in their hand.

The Earth becomes infertile, rivers hit the banks, wives take pleasure in speaking like prostitutes and their minds are not attracted towards their husbands. Brahmins become greedy for others' food. The low-born castes are not averse to becoming priests. Wives mix freely even after they become widows. The clouds release rain irregularly. The land becomes infertile. The kings kill their subjects, the people are burdened with taxes; they survive by eating honey, meat, fruits and roots.

In the first quarter of the Kali Age, people deride God; in the second quarter, people do not even pronounce God's name; in the third quarter, men become cross-breeds; in the fourth quarter, men become the same (uniform) breed; nothing called race exists anymore; they forget God and pious works become extinct.

~ Kalki Purana, I[1], Verses 23-38
Taken from: Hindu Prophecies : The Kalki Purana


Regards.

 

[saarangam]

Sri Krishnamurthy

By reading a commentary on Apastamba sUtra - prashna I kANDa I ,what I infer is:
A brahman after being initiated by his AcArya should stay with the teacher for a minimum period of 12 years. The study period can be 12, 24, 36, or 48 years (maximum).It does not mean that for learning each vEdam one should take 12 years.

The sholarly members in this forum may go through the original text and give a correct interpretation.

Incidentally Adi Sankarar lived only for 32 years.Going by what Dr.Praveen has said Adi Sankarar could have only mastered two of the four vEdas, which none of us would concede.
IMO Dr.Praveen has made a thorough misinterpretation of Apastamba sUtra.

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Sravna,

While we speak of (what we think to be) 'reforms', we may also remember what has been prophecised (if we take the puranas to be verily the truth).

The verses below are from the Kalki Purana:

Those who are known as Dvijas are devoid of the Vedas, narrow-minded and always engaged in the service of the Sudras. They are fond of carnal desires, seller of religion, seller of the Vedas, untouchable and seller of juices. They sell meat, are cruel, engaged in sexual gratification and gratification of their appetite, attached to others' wives, drunk and producer of cross-breeds. They have a low life-span, mix with lowly people and consider their brother-in-law as the only friend. They like constant confrontation and are fond of argument, discontent, fond of jewellery, hair and style.

The wealthy are respected as high-born and Brahmins are respected only if they are lenders. Men are merciful only when they are unable to harm others; express displeasure towards the poor; talk excessively to express erudition and carry out religious work to be famous.

Monks are attached to homes in this Kali Yuga and the homeless are devoid of any morality. Men of this age deride their teachers, display false religious affinity but tricks the good people. Sudras in Koli are always engaged in taking over others' possessions.

In kaliyuga marriage takes place simply because the man and the woman agree to do so. Men engages in friendship with the crooked and show magnanimity while returning favours. Men are considered pious only if they are wealthy and treat only far-away waters (lands) as places of pilgrimage.

Men are considered Brahmins simply because they have the sacred thread around their body and as explorers, simply because they have a stick in their hand.

The Earth becomes infertile, rivers hit the banks, wives take pleasure in speaking like prostitutes and their minds are not attracted towards their husbands. Brahmins become greedy for others' food. The low-born castes are not averse to becoming priests. Wives mix freely even after they become widows. The clouds release rain irregularly. The land becomes infertile. The kings kill their subjects, the people are burdened with taxes; they survive by eating honey, meat, fruits and roots.

In the first quarter of the Kali Age, people deride God; in the second quarter, people do not even pronounce God's name; in the third quarter, men become cross-breeds; in the fourth quarter, men become the same (uniform) breed; nothing called race exists anymore; they forget God and pious works become extinct.

~ Kalki Purana, I[1], Verses 23-38
Taken from: Hindu Prophecies : The Kalki Purana


Regards.

Dear Smt. HH,

I agree that what has been prophesied exactly reflects the state of the world today. I would give my view of how such a declining dharma is addressed. As the extent of dharma keeps declining from satya yuga to kali yuga and so, the number of people who would be adhering to dharma would be more say in a dwapara yuga than in a kali yuga. But I would suppose the number of those people in a kali yuga even though less in proportion, would be greater in ability to restore dharma. In the extreme case, when the adharma peaks, it would be the Lord alone who takes the responsibility of restoring dharma.

The above is my view of how the decline in dharma would still be compensated and dharma be restored eventually.

 

[sangom]

TO All,
APASTHAMBA SUTR I PRASNA I PATALA I KHANDA 2 mentions that to study ALL 4 Vedas
it takes 48 years. A quarter less-36 years, Less by Half-24 years, three quarter less 12 years.
Apasthamba said 12 years minimum for learning(ONE VEDA)
My question for all those who have learnt Vedas of their lineage in modern times,how much time does it take to learn one Veda.Do people still study for 12 years?
Courtesy: Dr.Praveen Kaudlay(VIPRA SAMHITHA)

Dear Shri.Sangom,
I am a lay man and I have no knowledge of any Scriptures,except that my ancestors are followers of three RISHIS--VASISTA,MAITHRA VARUNA and KAUNDINYA and we follow yajur veda and Apasthamba sutra.
Vedas are considered Sacred Texts by followers of Sanathana Dharma not only in INDIA but by All followers of SDthroughout the world.I want to know(without meaning any offence to you personally) the basis for your observations about Vedas in post No;24.
While I appreciate and acknowledge that you are a learned Scholar,I would like to know whether you have learned all the 4 vedas and mastered them according to the time schedule mentioned by Dr.Praveen Kaudlay in Viprasamhitha.

Dear Shri Krishnamurthy,

Namaskaram. In fact I have not "learnt", in the traditional way, any veda in full. Like many brahman children of 50 or 60 years ago, born and brought up in my maternal grandfather's house (he was a vaideekan) and later in an agraharam in TVPM, I could learn the usual mantras like purusha sukta, vishnusahasranama, mantras for archana to many deities, rudram & chamakam, usual devapooja which was done daily, taittireeyopanishad, etc. I had a Physics professor, one Shri Sankaran Namboodiri, who used to bestow special attention on me (we were only 6 students for the honours course); it was he who introduced me to upanishads. For most of my life I have been a conformist or the orthodox type but as time went and I started learning more about our scriptures as also about other religions, a doubt grew as to whether the concept/s of religion are true, are they really beneficial to mankind etc. At that stage I got the book in Marathi on Dharmasastras by Dr. P.V. kane and that made my doubts to grow stronger. Then I happened to read a book on Buddha and buddhism. It was after reading Buddha's advices that I got confirmation about the falsity of many of our orthodox beliefs like vedas are eternal, apourusheya, etc.

After retirement in 1996 I have been reading many books realting to religion, vedas, other scriptures, etc., and after getting a computer I could download very many old books from the internet archives; googlebooks also helps in reading several pages of contemporary books and I also buy some. It is from such reading that I write my opinions.

In Apastamba's times, learning a veda must have mainly meant learning it by rote, with the prescribed intonations (here again a discerning observer will find that the "correct" intonation varies from north India to s. India and n. Indian brahmans who are erudite in vedas (some are still there) look down upon our way of reciting; Namboodiris have yet another way and it is more pleasing to the ears IMO than the tabras'.), committing it to memory and then reciting it. It is a clear fact that the real intention or meaning of the vedic bards (even their real names) had been lost by the time the sarvaanukramanee was prepared by Kaatyaayana. Kindly see this post.

That sort of mugging up of a veda may take 12 years perhaps. But today we have very many reliable books giving different viewpoints and analyses about vedas; by reading these books and simultaneously verifying whether the citations are correct, one can get more knowledge about the vedas than through the traditional route, I feel.

Thanking you for your kind words,

with regards and respect,
sangom

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Shri.Saarangam,
If a Brahman is required to stay with his Guru for a minimum period of 12 years,
I think we can reasonably presume that 12 years was the minimum time prescribed in ancient times to learn one Veda.
There could be exceptions among the learners who may be capable of learning in a shorter period of time.
We always keep Adi Sankara,Ramanuja,and Madwacharya in high pedestal
and I personally feel it may not be right to bring their name when we are discussing
about ordinary brahmins.

 

[kunjuppu]

Temple in Toronto and GTA

sangam,

it is interesting that you mention that north indian vedists consider our sanskrit pronounciation dubious.

i have attached a list of toronto hindu temples. one of them, is the arya samaj centre, where i attended a discourse. this gentleman, from north, was clearly paying tributes to the southies, not only for their erudition of the vedas, but also the correct pronounciation.

same said a friend of mine. he is an iyengar, with more than average knowledge of sanskrit. one of his children's wedding was conducted in the usa with north indian pandits. he found not only their knowledge but pronounciation of sanskrit abominable. we can say that the pandit was again above average in his erudition.

thank you.

ps. the richmond hill hindu temple, almost at the bottom, was the temple started by tambrams, constructed with the labour of sri lankan tamils, and now almost 97% attendence from them.

 

[sangom]

Temple in Toronto and GTA

sangam,

it is interesting that you mention that north indian vedists consider our sanskrit pronounciation dubious.

i have attached a list of toronto hindu temples. one of them, is the arya samaj centre, where i attended a discourse. this gentleman, from north, was clearly paying tributes to the southies, not only for their erudition of the vedas, but also the correct pronounciation.

same said a friend of mine. he is an iyengar, with more than average knowledge of sanskrit. one of his children's wedding was conducted in the usa with north indian pandits. he found not only their knowledge but pronounciation of sanskrit abominable. we can say that the pandit was again above average in his erudition.

thank you.

ps. the richmond hill hindu temple, almost at the bottom, was the temple started by tambrams, constructed with the labour of sri lankan tamils, and now almost 97% attendence from them.

Kunjuppu,

What I wanted to convey was the way of reciting or "svaras" and the way the swaras are actually pronounced, not the sanskrit pronunciation as such nor the sanskrit knowledge per se of our purohits. (But I personally feel most of the "vaadhyars" have only very limited sanskrit knowledge.) The comment made by a yajurvedi pundit was that our purohits recite the vedas at break-neck speed thus robbing it of all beauty and serenity. Incidentally if you happen to get any audio CD of mantras recited by Namboodiris (Malayala Manorama had come out with some cassettes; but I don't have a cassette player now though i have the tape!) you will find a lot of difference. Just a clip or two of the Namboodiri recital can be heard in the Malayalam movie "Desadanam", if you can get it.

 

[ShivKC]

Dear Sri ShivKC Ji,

I am a NRI. I am not a Christian nor do I find any other religion's philosophy attractive to my own concept of Hinduism.

You have mentioned in a post to Sri Sangom Ji not to take this to a personal level. Yet, given the description you have given above to these'puppets' seem to describe myself. I think every NRI in this Forum would feel the same way. You can not say, 'those in that house that wear white shirts are all hooligans' and when a person from that house wearing a white shirt approaches you, say 'don't take this to a personal level'.

Sri Saarangam Ji's posting above exactly mirrors my view point.

Obviously you hold very orthodox views of Hinduism. That is okay. You have the right to them. I will never question yours or anyone else's right to hold those views and practice Hinduism the way you want to practice. In fact, I would defend them as long as they are legal.

But you don't seem to share this ideal. It seems to me that you think that Hinduism starts and ends with Purva Mimamsa. We have several paths open to us as Hindus (thank God for that) to attain Moksha and you seem to forget that and tend to view those who hold different views as 'traitors' to our religion and express it. And this is offensive.

As I have said before, people in this Forum who have the Tamil Brahmin heritage, despite their views are Tamil Brahmins, and sorry, this Forum is for all those folks, including you.

Your view that somehow reading the threads here one would suddenly abandon orthodoxy and will become 'indoctrinated' against caste etc. is, not logical. Those who find value and comfort in their current practice of Hinduism will never abandon it. Those who do not will think and change their views, but will still practice Hinduism. Actually it is again offensive to our Forum readers that they will change their religion just because of some folks here express the view that casteism is bad for Hinduism. You must think that our audience is that gullible!

Religion is a personal choice. Look at the reasons Hindus change religions. Saying casteism is the problem within Hinduism is not one of them. So, with your logic of reinforcing casteism, there should be less conversions! Is that it?

I do not understand the motive of this thread. Is it to excoriate others because of their view? What do you want to convey, other than calling others 'puppets' and lamenting the fact that their ideas lead to conversions to Christianity, both of which you can not substantiate, let alone argue convincingly on an intellectual level.

Based on your response, I will decide as a Moderator what I will do with this thread.

Regards,
KRS

sh,krs, i am surprised how this thread has created an anger amongst select few. Couldnt login for few days, and once logged, didnt know that you have put a question here.. may be, i am not keeping a track of my posts.

its irrelevant for you to get offended, for you being an NRI. i was very clear with my words 'western influenced' and never mentioned 'people living abroad or NRIs'.

so puppet is an analogy i took, but rest assured I havent targeted any one. if any one feel so,then there must be a merit in my post in that angle too, please take it that way.

my worry is where is the heat coming out from, to an extend you warning about deleting this thread.if you feel so, as a moderator you may delete it, and i am not going to cry out.

let me make it clear, i have not targeted any one here by mentioning as puppet. I have only said, step 1: Brahmin bashing followed by step 2: say no to religion, by few members will only lead to change of religion. you may not change, but it yields way for others. even missionaries first target is attack brahminism.

i dont want to name anyone here, but while going through the older posts of few members, who once were supporters of Vedhas, now have started questioning vedhas now. indoctrination is going on very well here, is my personal opinion, which you may not agree. lets stand here with that difference, but not go the extend of deleting the thread.


let me end with a clarification to you as a moderator. as said, this forum is for the development of tb community, how much our community would benefit by permitting the threads of 'Say No To Religion'.

hope you are aware, without religion, there can be no term TamizhBrahmin.

there can be no musimTB,christianTB, atheistTB or chavarkaTB...he has to be essentially a Hindu,Tamil&Brahmin to come under umbrella of Tamilbrahmin

then why encourage such discussions here(if not wanting huge traffic), where as you are so much eager to come down heavy on me, for opposing such things.

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Dear Shri.Shivkc,
In your post you have stated 'there can be no muslim tb,christiantb,atheist tb etc;'.I feel there can be 'Brahmin Muslim','BrahminChristian'
'Brahmin Athiest' etc.

Please refer to page 198(1980) under "Introduce yourself".'I do not know whether 'Brahmin Muslim' and 'Brahmin athiest' have already joined this forum as a member before I became a member of this Forum.

 

[Nara]

....
so puppet is an analogy i took, but rest assured I havent targeted any one.

[...]

i dont want to name anyone here, but while going through the older posts of few members, who once were supporters of Vedhas, now have started questioning vedhas now.

The above two statements are self-contradictory!

is my personal opinion, which you may not agree. lets stand here with that difference, but not go the extend of deleting the thread.

One is entitled to any opinion, but if they are meant to characterize other members in bad light, then, it is obligatory to put up some evidence. You can't just say it is your opinion, equal in validity to anyone else's.

In my experience, in the most part, no opinion is censored here a priori, as long as it is done with a modicum of civility and is free of personal attacks. Even otherwise, only repeat offenders get severely moderated.

But all this is diverting from the main issue. IMO, and I invite Shri KRS to correct me if I am wrong, the present predicament you are in is not because of the opinions you are expressing, it is not even because of the uncalled for innuendos in your post, but, it is because of the bullying and personal remarks against other members, which you are still sidestepping.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri ShivKC Ji,

As you hold the opinion that 'the west influenced puppets' is the cause of Hindus leaving our religion, others hold the view that casteism and some practices of strict orthodoxy is that cause.

Which view is correct? Both are, because both views are held by our community.

But sir, your analogy does not say 'west influenced individuals' but 'west influenced puppets'. Calling your fellow Forum members 'puppets' of any one without offering any specific proof is not okay. I did read your exchanges with Srimathi HH Ji and to be frank, if I was active then, you would have been warned and if you persisted like you did after Professor Nara Ji's requests to you then, you would not be around as a member of this Forum today.

You need to understand that this Forum is for ANYONE as long as one has the best interest of our community. Criticism and introspection are not done out of malice here - people who contribute here are doing so out of their love for our community. You view any opinion other than yours as not only valid but with derision. The non valid part is okay, but the derisive part is not okay.

We do not like kicking people out of this Forum - by the way, not because we want to attract and retain more members being controversial - but because this Forum affords anyone with any view to espouse it here - as long as they conform to our very basic requirements.

I was not happy to see Sri Vivek Ji go recently - I tried my best to warn him even before he violated our rules, because I saw him at that edge, because I thought he was a very decent human being. But out he went, because he did not understand how to control his emotions and act civilized in this Forum. I still gave him enough rope. But then, unfortunately out he went by his own choice of behavior.

As Professor Nara said above and I am in full agreement, I am writing this to you because you do not seem to understand what is a personal attack and what is a civilized argument. It is my place to warn you if you violate our rules. Please do feel free to espouse your ideas in a civilized manner, we would welcome your posts here, for a long time to come.

Because of your history, this is a final warning. If you write anything at all offensive about any other member or members here, it will be your last post.

By the way, I am letting this thread to go forward. But please do not use words like 'puppet' anymore without giving a serious thought about the offensiveness of such a word to others.

Hope I have made myself clear.

Regards,
KRS

 

[Haridasa Siva]

Dear Shri.KRSji,

Ref.ost no.42

I have been a member of this forum for about 4 months now. My views here are based on my experience in this forum during this period. I am not aware of the legacy and please forgive me for that. But I am expressing these views in what I believe is the interest of our community and this forum.

“You need to understand that this Forum is for ANYONE as long as one has the best interest of our community. Criticism and introspection are not done out of malice here - people who contribute here are doing so out of their love for our community”.

I would love to believe every word of what you have said in the preceding paragraph.

But some members repeatedly criticize our community and hold the acts of past against today’s innocent generation. In almost every discussion, these members blame Brahmin practices and (either explicitly or implicitly) convey the impression that Brahmins are hypocrites. These members do have very good knowledge and have good linguistic skills too. So, they can package their anti-Brahmin ideas in the name of “rationalism”. I have not felt even for once that such members do so “out of their love for our community”.

I know it is a fashion in Tamil Nadu to propagate anti-Brahmin ideologies but it is difficult to bear such a practice in a forum of “Tamilbrahmins”.

The comments by some members are quite often off-context or out-of-context and are often provocative. A person, who feels proud to be a Brahmin (there is nothing wrong with it, as long as one does not look down upon other castes) would definitely feel insulted by such comments. Many members ignore them; but some, in their attempt to safeguard/defend Brahmin interests, voice out their opposition to such comments. Unfortunately, sometimes, they cross the “lakshman rekha” and get personal.

While we definitely can not allow personal attacks, I feel we should also do something about the reason for such outbursts – the source of frustration i.e., the so called “reformers”.

Shouldn’t they refrain from pouring such blatant criticism of Brahmins in a Brahmin forum?
Isn’t it natural for a Brahmin member of this forum to feel bad by such criticism?

After all in my opinion most people join this forum with a hope of nurturing Brahmin interests. I am sure you do not want them to be disappointed by the acts of a few members.