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RAgam, ThAnam, Pallavi - fascinating facts!

RAgams in swaraprasthAram are as follows.

1. NaLinakAnthi; 2. HindhOLam; 3. KamalAmanOhari; 4. VarALi (Sanjay's favorite!!)
 
There was an interesting thematic presentation by Neyveli Sri. Santhanagopalan.

He said ALL the ragAs will have one of the combination like S - P or P - S'.

Let us try to make a list of possible rAgams WITHOUT these combinations. (2 number notation is used for easy understanding)

To simplify, we can take P - S' combination as S - M1 combination because when P is taken as S, S' becomes its M1.

This leads to the first conclusion that if either M1 or P is in the rAgam, it will NOT be in our 'list'.

Let us find out what are the S - M1 and S - P combinations of R, G, M in one octave:

1. R1 - M2 and R1 - D1

2. R2 - P and R2 - D2

3. G1 - D1 and G1 - N1

4. G2 - D2 and G2 - N2

5. M1 - S'

To be continued...............
 
The 'list' - continued.....

5. M1 - N1 and M1 - S'

6. M2 - N2

So the combinations to be avoided to make the 'list' are:

1. R1 - M2 and R1 - D1

2. R2 - P and R2 - D2

3. G1 - D1 and G1 - N1

4. G2 - D2 and G2 - N2

5. M1 - N1 and M1 - S'

6. M2 - N2

Since the possible rAgams for the 'list' can not have M1 and P, all the possible rAgams can have ONLY parathi madhyamam. (M2)

For systematic calculation:

I. Let us take R1, R2 (suddha GAndhAram). For this R, G,

M2, D1, D2 can not appear. So, only with R, G, N, rAgams are not possible.

Note: If ArOhaNam / avarOhaNam has only four notes, then avarOhaNam / ArOhaNam should have minimum 6 notes.

Eg. S G2 M1 P S' - S' N1 D2 M1 G2 R2 S - Navarasakannada.


II. Let us take R1, G1. For this R, G,

M2, D1, N1 can not appear. But, D2 and N2 can appear.

This gives us only one audava rAgam (five notes rAgam) as:

S R1 G1 D2 N2 S' - S' N2 D2 G1 R1 S. Not a good combination, right? ;)


III. Let us take R1, G2. For this R, G,

M2, D1, D2 can not appear. So, only with R, G, N, rAgams are not possible.


To be continued...........
 
Raji Ram said:
....... . Let us take R1, G1. For this R, & G, M2, D1, N1 can not appear. But, D2 and N2 can appear.

This gives us only one audava rAgam (five notes rAgam) as: S R1 G1 D2 N2 S' - S' N2 D2 G1 R1 S. Not a good combination, right? ;)
Click to expand...
There is one rAgam 'NirOshta' which has ArO and avarO as S R2 G2 D2 N2 S' - S' N2 D2 G2 R2 S

Since the swarams have S - P combination (R2 - D2 and G2 - N2) it is a very pleasing rAgam!

Enjoy this song: Madurai T N S - Rajaraja radhithe - Niroshta - Muththaiya bhagavathar

Note: 'NirOshta' literally means 'without the lips'. If the upper and lower lips do not touch, then the notes M and P cannot be uttered.

This scale does not use either note. The song too has to be sung with open mouth! A very intelligent composition.

This proves that S - P combination gives life to the rAgam. :thumb:

 
Merci Beacoup madame!

I may be wrong coz this is in the territory of complex arts!!

1. but what i understood from Neyveli-for-beginners was:

every ragam has a s-p, by changing the sruti, thats all. u might have to go up 2 levels but there will be a p and ofcourse he has included the new s as the old s for convenience.

2. also another clarification, so do u say NIROSHTA is the closest u can get to(next to) navarasa kannada in an RTP. but this combination will not be nice?

3. A piano for those who want to hear p-s ( of the arohanam ) of navarasa kannada:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kONiLaz2Z5M
 
Last edited:
SANDHYAV said:
............. 1. but what i understood from Neyveli-for-beginners was:

every ragam has a s-p, by changing the sruti, thats all. u might have to go up 2 levels but there will be a p and ofcourse he has included the new s as the old s for convenience.

2. also another clarification, so do u say NIROSHTA is the closest u can get to(next to) navarasa kannada in an RTP. but this combination will not be nice?

3. A piano for those who want to hear p-s ( of the arohanam ) of navarasa kannada:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kONiLaz2Z5M
Click to expand...
Dear Sandhya,

Here are the answers / comments.

1. You got the point. What I am trying to figure out is whether the possible rAgams without S - P or P - S' (which will be the same as S - M)

combinations and see whether the rAgam will be good to listen to! But, it appears it may NOT!


2. Navarasakannada was given as an example to show that there CAN be 4 - 6 swaram combination for a rAgam.

If avarOhaNam has only 4 swarams then it is compulsory to have 6 swarams in ArOhaNam. Hope it is clear.

NirOshtA was mentioned because the first rAgam we got in the 'list' was A R1 G1 D2 N2 S' which sounds very odd,

where as S R2 G2 D2 N2 S' (NirOshtA) is very pleasing to the ears. Please note, R2 - D2; G2 - N2 are S - P combinations. :)


3. I have heard the song with piano background. It is very nice. :thumb:
 
The 'list' - continued....

IV. Let us take R2, G1. For this R & G, M2 can appear. But even then,

D1, D2, N1, N2 can not appear. So, only with S, R, G, M, rAgams are not possible.

( point already discussed in I )

V. Let us take R2, G2. For this R & G, M2 can appear.

D2, N2 can not appear. But, D1 and N1 can appear.

We get R2, G2, M2, D1, N1 as the five possible notes. Added with S, we have six.

WOW! This will give us many rAgams as audava (5 notes) ; audava shAdava (5 - 6 in ArO - avarO);

shAdava (6 notes); shAdava audava (6 - 5 in ArO-avarO) and also in the 4 - 6 and 6 - 4 combinations!

Shall see those combinations, AFTER checking Shatsruthi rishabham and G2 in VI.


VI. Let us take G1 (shatsruthi Rishabam), G2. For this R & G, M2 can appear. But even then,

D1, D2, N1, N2 can not appear. So, only with S, R, G, M, rAgams are not possible. (refer note in I )

To be continued...........
 
The 'list' - continued....

We get R2, G2, M2, D1, N1 as the five possible notes. Added with S, we have six.
Click to expand...
Let us find the possible combinations of ArO and avarO for S, R2, G2, M2, D1, N1 S'.

First, the possible 'audava' rAgams.


1. S R2 G2 M2 D1 S'

2. S R2 G2 M2 N1 S'

3. S R2 G2 D1 N1 S'

4. S R2 M2 D1 N1 S'

5. S G2 M2 D1 N1 S'

The audava rAgams need NOT have the SAME notes in ArO and avarO.

Hence, set 1 can have 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 as avarO swarams, of course in the reverse order.

We get 5 possible audava rAgams.

Similarly, other four sets also can have 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 / 5 as avarO, which makes 20 more possible!

Thus, we get 5 rAgams with same swarams in ArO and avarO + 20 with different swarams in ArO and avarO.

Total comes to 25 possible audava rAgams.


Please wait! These exclude 'vakra rAgams', which have lower swaram after upper swaram in ArO

and upper swaram after lower swaram in avarO! 'Vakram' can be either in ArO, avarO or in both!

Eg: BangAla - S R2 G2 M1 P M1 R2 P S' - S' N1 P M1 R2 G1 R2 S, which is Vakram in both ArO and avarO.

Anandhabairavi: S G1 R2 G1 M1 P D2 P S' - S' N1 D2 P M1 G1 R2 S which is vakram in only ArO.

Sri: S R2 M1 P N1 S' - S' N1 P D2 N1 P M1 R2 G1 R2 S Which is vakram only in avarO.


If we try different 'vakra' combinations, is it possible to count those rAgams? ;)

To be continued.............

 
The 'list' - continued....

Only 1 shAdava rAgam can exist with S, R2, G2, M2, D1, N1 S'.

But many can be created with 'vakra swarams' as said earlier!


Now, let us find out audava shAdava rAgams. The audava swarams are:

1. S R2 G2 M2 D1 S'

2. S R2 G2 M2 N1 S'

3. S R2 G2 D1 N1 S'

4. S R2 M2 D1 N1 S'

5. S G2 M2 D1 N1 S'


These five sets will have all the six swarams in avarO to create audava shAdava rAgams.

Hence, without 'vakra' combination, only 5 audava shAdava rAgams can be created.

With similar logic, we can create 5 shAdava audava rAgams, without 'vakra' combination.

Hence audava shAdava rAgams - 5

shAdava audava rAgams - 5


Next, we have to find out the possible 4 - 6 and 6 - 4 swarams in ArO avarO. .

To be continued .......................
 
The 'list' - continued....

We are considering 6 swarams S, R2, G2, M2, D1, N1 S'.

The four swaram combinations will be:

1. S R2 G2 M2 S'

2. S R2 G2 D1 S'

3. S R2 G2 N1 S'

4. S R2 M2 D2 S'

5. S R2 M2 N1 S'

6. S R2 D1 N1 S'

7. S G2 M2 D1 S'

8. S G2 M2 N1 S'

9. S M2 D1 N1 S'

Without vakra combination, these 9 sets as ArO swarams can create 9 rAgams with all the six swarams in avarO.

Similarly, taking all the six swarams in ArO and these nine sets in avarO, we can create 9 more rAgams.

There are 18 rAgams created, without 'vakram'.

To be continued............

 
The conclusion:

We have analyzed all possible rAgams which will NOT have either S - P or P - S' combinations, without any vakram in ArO or avarO.

a) audava rAgams: 1 (S R1 G2 D2 N2 S' )

+ 25 ( from the six possible swarams given in V )

b) shAdava rAgam: 1

c) audava shAdava rAgams: 5

d) shAdava audava rAgams: 5

e) 4 - 6 in ArO - avarO rAgams: 9

f) 6 - 4 in ArO - avarO rAgams: 9

In total, we get 55 possible rAgams without S - P / P - S' combinations, without vakram in ArO and avarO.

But sadly, none of these sound good to the ears! :tsk:


When the strait ascending and descending notes are NOT pleasing, I wonder whether any vakram

added in ArO or avarO or both, will enhance the beauty of the combinations! :decision:
 
:cell:
Raji Ram said:

Sruthi bEdham:

This is one of the fascinating concepts in the delineation of rAgam. When the AdhAra sruthi is shifted from Shadjamam to

any other swaram we get a different rAgam with the same notes. This shifting of AdhAra surthi is known as sruthi bEdham.

A sampoorNa rAgam has the same seven notes in ascending and descending order without any twist, which is known as

'vakram'. The best sampoorNa rAgam to understand Sruthi bEdham is SankarAbharaNam. The shift of sruthi to Rishabham

gives KharaharapriyA; to GAndhAram gives ThOdi; to Madhyamam gives KalyANi; Panchamam gives HarikAmbOji and

Dhaivatham gives Natabairavi. The shift to NishAdham gives an invalid mELa rAgam because it will have both M1 and M2!!

The formula to remember these rAgams is: San Khara ThOdi Kal Hari Nata. :thumb:


To be continued .................
Click to expand...

Raji Ram said:

Carnatic music gives the artists freedom to exhibit their talents in many ways. RAgam ThAnam Pallavi, now-a-days known as RTP,

gives the maximum freedom! Sruthi bEdham in singing the rAgam, the beauty of different patterns in thAnam, the thALam intricacies

and lyrics of the pallavi are a few specials.


We can say that a Pallavi is a one line composition - either taken from an already existing krithi or just the one line composed

by an artist. The rAgam of the pallavi is indicated sometimes in the lyrics of the pallavi. A famous one is 'SankarAbharaNanai

azhaithOdi vAdi KalyANi DharbArukku'. This has four different rAgams - SankarAbharaNam, ThOdi, KalyANi and DharbAr.


The two number system of swarams, which the beginners learn, is denoted by the twelve basic notes, namely

R1 - shuddha Rishabham, R2 - chathusruthi Rishabham, G1 - sAdhAraNa GAndhAram, G2 - anthara GAndhAram,

M1 - shuddha Madhyamam, M2 - prathi Madhyamam, P - Panchamam, D1 - shuddha Dhaivatham, D2 - chathusruthi

Dhaivatham, N1 - kaisiki NishAdham and N2 - kAkali NishAdham.


Since the vivAdhi swaram shatsruthi Rishabam is same as G1, suddha GandhAram is same as R2, shatsruthi Dhaivatham is

same as N1 and suddha NishAdham is same as D2 the three number system came into existence.

It is S; R1; R2; R3 = G1 in two number system

R2, G1, G2 in the two number system becomes G1, G2 and G3 in the three number system

D1; D2; D3 = N1 in two number system

D2, N1, N2 in the two number system becomes N1, N2 and N3 in the three number system

The position of swarams are like this:

S R1 R2 R3
.......G1 G2 G3 M1 M2 P D1 D2 D3
......................................N1 N2 N3

Thus the twelve basic notes became sixteen swarams!

And, the beginner's rAgam MAyAmALavagowlA has these swarams: S R1 G3 M1 P D1 N3 S'


To be continued....... :)
Click to expand...
 
Brahman, Brahmin, and Brahma have different meanings. Brahman refers to the Supreme Self. Brahmin (or Brahmana) refers to an individual belonging to the Hindu priest, artists, teachers, technicians class (varna or pillar of the society) and also to an individual belonging to the Brahmin tribe/caste into which an individual is born; while the word Brahma refers to the creative aspect of the universal consciousness or God. Because the priest / Acharya is knowledgeable about Brahma (the God), and is responsible for religious rituals in temples and homes and is a person authorized after rigorous training in vedas (sacred texts of knowledge) and religious rituals to provide advice and impart knowledge of God to members of the society and assist in attainment of moksha, the liberation from life cycle; the priest / Acharya class is called "Brahmin varna." The English word brahmin is an anglicized form of the Sanskrit word Brāhmana.
 
Dear Friend,

I don't want to address you by a number! :)

These rAgams are generated by mere calculations but they DO NOT sound good.

The conclusion is this: Unless there is at least one of the combinations of S - P or P - S', the melody is lost!

And ..........

There are some rules to create rAgams, which I shall post here.
 

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