Religious functions

[R VIJAYAN]

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Kindly enlighten me on this. If a brahmin boy gets married to a girl from other caste will she be eligible to perform the rites, poojas like mangali pondugal, shradham, etc. Thanks in advance.

Regards

 

[prasad1]

Kindly enlighten me on this. If a brahmin boy gets married to a girl from other caste will she be eligible to perform the rites, poojas like mangali pondugal, shradham, etc. Thanks in advance.

Regards

I generally do not post in this section.
Who has to make it possible?
Let us say you pay a priest as much money he wants to conduct the ceremony (believe me you can find one), will your family and friends come?
Let us say the authority on this site (there are few), who can give you permission, will it be enough?
If the person who wants to do the ceremony for what ever reason he/she wants to do is determined, they can do it with or without the few family members.
The Brahmin boy (if he is man enough) and honors his wife, will do the right thing and not insult his wife.


Who are you tying to please.
The Gods do not care one way or the other.
If they are boys friends they would not care either.
The boys family (older people) may not accept it, but what are you going to do about that.
So good luck, tell the boy to grow up and be a man.

 

[yesmohan]

Kindly enlighten me on this. If a brahmin boy gets married to a girl from other caste will she be eligible to perform the rites, poojas like mangali pondugal, shradham, etc. Thanks in advance.
Regards

It is a valid question. In the context that there is no adequate girls in tamil brahmins, many tamil- brahmin boys remain unmarried. Some bold boys took the very bold decision and marry NB girls.Now as the after effect, this question of performing the rites, poojas like mangali pondugal, shradham, etc. comes in.

As all these religious, semi religious activities are subjective and for self satisfaction of the performer and the relatives & people around them, the boy & girl could take again a bold decision of skipping all rituals or do them at any cost as in the case of marriage.

What they do in a bold manner would set as a precedent to all other similar sets of people.

 

[asadu]

I think the question is about eligibility. Whether he performs with permission or without family/friends is immaterial. Does he gains authority by virtue of being a brahim boy to perform such rituals ? What does our Shashtras/ Vedic rules say ?

 

[Raji Ram]

The sAsthrigaLs who don't care whether the girl is a brahmin or not are very much available and accept them to do the rituals.

Thailand girl (rather lady) clad in a madisAr can sit on an adopted tambrahm father's lap and get married to a tambrahm guy!

By the way, is the OP 'The BOY'??

 

[GANESH65]

The main question here is the result one is going to achieve by performing the customary functions. Every custom has a set of procedures to be followed. They are probably decided centuries old and may or many not have undergone certain changes over the years. Our customs predominantly decided by cast-ism factors demands a Brahmin to get married with another brahmin only. Exceptions are there from time immemorial and many of them has lead or leading a peaceful life. The cast based spouse system as far I understand it, must have prescribed for to make people comfortable with their customary rituals being followed in their clan at that time. Since the majority of us still follow the same even today, whether a girl from other cast can perform these rituals or not, would get no favorable answer. Now the option whether or not to perform the customary rituals remains with the individual only. Since ultimate goal of all custom to be followed, is the well being of the individual and the family, I think it depends on the sincerity with which the custom is followed rather than individuality of the persons performing it. In case the girl in question is unknown to the customs of a brahmin girl would normally do, you can also prefer to perform other poojas or prarthanas which can be easily performed by her which may produce the same results as that of traditional customs. It is just like the doctors treat decease with substitute in case the patient is allergic to any specific medicine!

 

[Vaagmi]

Kindly enlighten me on this. If a brahmin boy gets married to a girl from other caste will she be eligible to perform the rites, poojas like mangali pondugal, shradham, etc. Thanks in advance.
Regards

Sri Vijayan,

In Sri Vaishnav sampradhayam this is what is followed in such cases:

The girl and boy approach an Acharya who does a pancha samskaram (also called samAsrayanam) to the girl. If the boy has not gone through this already he is also put through this samskaram. Then the girl is eligible to participate in the functions as any other vaishnavite girl.

Are you curious about what is this samAsrayanam?

Briefly, it is about making one a vaishnav. The person is given a new name ( a dAsya name connected with a vishnu avtar), the introducing to the habit of wearing Urdwa pundram (Naamam), the branding with Shanku and Chakra on shoulders, the upadesam of Thiru mantram and the teaching by Acharyan of nithya thiru aradhana. It is a meaningful solemn function which is done by Acharyan. Once a person has gone through this samskAram he/she becomes eligible to participate in all religious functions on his/her own right.

While Vaishnavam strictly prohibits IC/IR marriages, it does not condemn those who violate this rule to the dog house for ever. IC/IR marriages are a no no for other valid reasons. But human beings, being what they are, some times falter. Under the tyranny of the hormones,they marry outside their castes.

The other most important samskAram a vaishnavite undergoes is BaranyAsam or prapatti. In this the person (men and women) does a complete surrender to God as guided by Acharyan.

 

[yesmohan]

I think the question is about eligibility. Whether he performs with permission or without family/friends is immaterial. Does he gains authority by virtue of being a brahim boy to perform such rituals ? What does our Shashtras/ Vedic rules say ?

Eligibilty comes in Vaishnavites.(refer post no#6 )
Let us wait some experts would explain what is the ratification procedure in in Iyers.

 

[prasad1]

poojas like mangali pondugal, shradham

I have seen Caucasians, NB non-tamil ladies doing it (or struggling with it).

 

[tbs]

Kindly enlighten me on this. If a brahmin boy gets married to a girl from other caste will she be eligible to perform the rites, poojas like mangali pondugal, shradham, etc. Thanks in advance.

Regards

hi
firstly...im not interested comment on this topic....but i feel...once a B boy decided with NB gal.....there is no question of any

brahmin rituals.....becoz.... even though B boy B gal are not interested now a days.....next ...what is the purpose brahmin

rituals?.....many boys does without a gal.....if it goes with sastra....then there are a lot of problems.....if u want convenience...

any vadhyar will do for money sake.....in western countries...its very common....i saw that a white gal with madisar doing rituals

with B boy in panchakaaccham in USA......

 

[renuka]

I don't get it...I was under the impression that the Gotra of a female changes to her husband's Gotra during/after marriage.

So technically the girl has become what her husband is..so what is the problem here?

Unless people do not have faith that the Gotra actually changes and prefer to adhere to birth based identities.

 

[asadu]

I don't get it...I was under the impression that the Gotra of a female changes to her husband's Gotra during/after marriage.

So technically the girl has become what her husband is..so what is the problem here?

Unless people do not have faith that the Gotra actually changes and prefer to adhere to birth based identities.

If the marriage was solemnised in such a way that the girl was accorded a gothra before the marriage and subsequently her gothra got changed during the marriage, then there is no question of rights of the girl to perform such rituals of Brahmins. If the Girl in question did not have any such gothra, say from Christian/Muslim community and got married to Brahmin boy, and the girl still continues to eat prevented foods, then how come she can be allowed to perform ?

Just because the girls loves such rituals as Photo Ops. or the Boy just wishes that the couple be allowed/accomodatd into Brahmin community ? Or just because the Vadhyar is greedy ? or some varrattu gaoravam ?

 

[vkswamy84]

During Rig Vedic period there was no caste or varna system existed. Also Varna System is not based on colour though we call it based on colour. The definition of Colour here means based on Tapo, Raja and Teja. Based on this colour terminology during Rig Vedic period itself due to behavioral model of Varna system evolved. It is also pertinent to mention here that because of a particular person who committed grievous sins were excluded from a particular Varna as outcastes (untouchables) and considered outside the Varna system.

01. The Brahmin class is modeled in the epic, as the archetype default state of man dedicated to truth, austerity and pure conduct.
02. Those who were inclined to anger, pleasures and boldness attained the Kshtriya Varna;
03. Those who were inclined to cattle rearing and living off the plough attained the Vaishyas;
04. Those who were fond of violence, covetousness and impurity attained the Shudras.

In India during Indus Vally Civilisation period Pancha Dravidians were existed in Saraswati River Delta. Aryan originated from Europe invated India and occupied Saraswathi River Delta pushing the Pancha Dravidians to Southern Parts of India. The Aryans who conquered Dravidians spread out to North India and adopted Hinduism from Dravidians. It is Aryans who classified the caste system in India which prevails even today. North Indians though adopted Hinduism but their Sutras or Smrithis are of different from Pancha Dravidians.

As per Hindu Dharma each Varna has its own lineage system and Gothras whether it is Aryans or Dravidians. Gothra System followed by all irrespective of Aryan or Dravidian is based on paternalinage (means Father Lineage).
As far as marriages are concerned as per Indian system of marriage is based on vertical system not like horizontal system of marriage being followed in western countries. Vertical System of marriages are based on paternalinage not maternalinage. As per Puranas a man should marry the same varna woman but no matter with higher caste. (Here higher caste means within the same varna but sub-caste but lower sub-cast should be avoided, as far as possible). It is scientifically proved marriages prohibited in the same Gothra due to blood relationship. Same Gothra people are considered as brothers and sisters. Women receives importance in family circle once she gets married and once the girl’s father performed Panigrahanam the responsibility of father ceased and the entire responsibility lies on the shoulders of husband reason being the girl automatically adopts husbands gothram relinquishing her entire birth place relationships and bondage. Mangalya Dharanam is not considered as marriage ceremony in our custom. Panigrahanam is considered as Marriage.
Based on this lineage system and Gothras 40 samaskarams are being performed by all of us irrespective of Varna category.
As per lineage and Gothra system one of the samaskaram being performed is Shrarda in which Sapinda being performed after this ritual ceremony the deceased soul reaches either swarga or naraka according to Karma. The person who performs ritual ceremony for his ancesters carry in his body his father’s and ancesters Sapinda Particles with the Gothra of his father and ancesters. Also it is mentioned in Ramayana when Lord Sri Ram performed Ashwamedha Yagam and ancesteral ceremonies Goddess Sita was exiled and not available besides him and as per Hindu Dharma performing rituals without spouse is not permissible and not beneficial. The Sage Vashista confirms (Though Sri Ram was shatriya) that though Sita is alive and exiled to support Sri Ram to uplift his Raj Dharma her Golden Idol (Not any other kind of idol) can be placed nearby you while performing the rituals. Therefore, it is mandatory for performing every samaskarkam spouse presence is very much essential and without spouse even if Kartha performs his rites. For performing ancesteral rites one has to utter the lineage gothram. In case of inter caste or love marriage either belongs to lower varna of the boy or same gothra. Under this circumstances, spouse can’t participate in the rituals like Mangali Pondugal or Shrardam or Namakaranam, Srimantham, Nandi Srardam, etc. etc. There is no system in our Hindu Dharma to adopt and become Hindu from other caste. Even in Hindu Dharma prohibits varna to varna conversion. The person marries other caste girl will be excommunicated automatically from Hindu Society once become Grahasta a person. Such person can very well perform his rituals for his own satisfaction and it will not fetch ultimate result which Hindu Dharma believes in every action.

Similarly, in our Hindu Dharma Divorce is not permitted under no circumstances which are common in western culture.

 

[vkswamy84]

If the marriage was solemnised in such a way that the girl was accorded a gothra before the marriage and subsequently her gothra got changed during the marriage, then there is no question of rights of the girl to perform such rituals of Brahmins. If the Girl in question did not have any such gothra, say from Christian/Muslim community and got married to Brahmin boy, and the girl still continues to eat prevented foods, then how come she can be allowed to perform ?

Just because the girls loves such rituals as Photo Ops. or the Boy just wishes that the couple be allowed/accomodatd into Brahmin community ? Or just because the Vadhyar is greedy ? or some varrattu gaoravam ?

During Rig Vedic period there was no caste or varna system existed. Also Varna System is not based on colour though we call it based on colour. The definition of Colour here means based on Tapo, Raja and Teja. Based on this colour terminology during Rig Vedic period itself due to behavioral model of Varna system evolved. It is also pertinent to mention here that because of a particular person who committed grievous sins were excluded from a particular Varna as outcastes (untouchables) and considered outside the Varna system.

01. The Brahmin class is modeled in the epic, as the archetype default state of man dedicated to truth, austerity and pure conduct.
02. Those who were inclined to anger, pleasures and boldness attained the Kshtriya Varna;
03. Those who were inclined to cattle rearing and living off the plough attained the Vaishyas;
04. Those who were fond of violence, covetousness and impurity attained the Shudras.

In India during Indus Vally Civilisation period Pancha Dravidians were existed in Saraswati River Delta. Aryan originated from Europe invated India and occupied Saraswathi River Delta pushing the Pancha Dravidians to Southern Parts of India. The Aryans who conquered Dravidians spread out to North India and adopted Hinduism from Dravidians. It is Aryans who classified the caste system in India which prevails even today. North Indians though adopted Hinduism but their Sutras or Smrithis are of different from Pancha Dravidians.

As per Hindu Dharma each Varna has its own lineage system and Gothras whether it is Aryans or Dravidians. Gothra System followed by all irrespective of Aryan or Dravidian is based on paternalinage (means Father Lineage).
As far as marriages are concerned as per Indian system of marriage is based on vertical system not like horizontal system of marriage being followed in western countries. Vertical System of marriages are based on paternalinage not maternalinage. As per Puranas a man should marry the same varna woman but no matter with higher caste. (Here higher caste means within the same varna but sub-caste but lower sub-cast should be avoided, as far as possible). It is scientifically proved marriages prohibited in the same Gothra due to blood relationship. Same Gothra people are considered as brothers and sisters. Women receives importance in family circle once she gets married and once the girl’s father performed Panigrahanam the responsibility of father ceased and the entire responsibility lies on the shoulders of husband reason being the girl automatically adopts husbands gothram relinquishing her entire birth place relationships and bondage. Mangalya Dharanam is not considered as marriage ceremony in our custom. Panigrahanam is considered as Marriage.
Based on this lineage system and Gothras 40 samaskarams are being performed by all of us irrespective of Varna category.
As per lineage and Gothra system one of the samaskaram being performed is Shrarda in which Sapinda being performed after this ritual ceremony the deceased soul reaches either swarga or naraka according to Karma. The person who performs ritual ceremony for his ancesters carry in his body his father’s and ancesters Sapinda Particles with the Gothra of his father and ancesters. Also it is mentioned in Ramayana when Lord Sri Ram performed Ashwamedha Yagam and ancesteral ceremonies Goddess Sita was exiled and not available besides him and as per Hindu Dharma performing rituals without spouse is not permissible and not beneficial. The Sage Vashista confirms (Though Sri Ram was shatriya) that though Sita is alive and exiled to support Sri Ram to uplift his Raj Dharma her Golden Idol (Not any other kind of idol) can be placed nearby you while performing the rituals. Therefore, it is mandatory for performing every samaskarkam spouse presence is very much essential and without spouse even if Kartha performs his rites. For performing ancesteral rites one has to utter the lineage gothram. In case of inter caste or love marriage either belongs to lower varna of the boy or same gothra. Under this circumstances, spouse can’t participate in the rituals like Mangali Pondugal or Shrardam or Namakaranam, Srimantham, Nandi Srardam, etc. etc. There is no system in our Hindu Dharma to adopt and become Hindu from other caste. Even in Hindu Dharma prohibits varna to varna conversion. The person marries other caste girl will be excommunicated automatically from Hindu Society once become Grahasta a person. Such person can very well perform his rituals for his own satisfaction and it will not fetch ultimate result which Hindu Dharma believes in every action.

Similarly, in our Hindu Dharma Divorce is not permitted under no circumstances which are common in western culture.