< RULE - Only Positives > Brahmans' Positive contributions to the Tamil Society.

[niyengaar]

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< RULE - Only Positives > Brahmans' Positive contributions to the Tamil Society.


I am fed up of people here trying to portray Brahmans very negatively.

Truth be told, these people are making me think if i should even continue here or just leave this place alone for them to continue their slagging of my Community!

Every Good thing i ve heard of my Ancestors and their Contribution to my Community as well as to the Tamil Community ( yeah, the two are different for me - thanks to you people ), is the only one which still keeps me going on here.

==========================================================================


I would like to know the Various Positive Contributions that Brahmans ve done to the Tamil Society.

I would really love to see how many here know about / rate the good things that Brahmans ve done - And how many are here just to slag us off.

Please go ahead and add the names of every brahman who has done some good to this society.


==========================================================================

p.s. : This is STRICTLY Only for the Positives. All you foul-mouthers and Anti-Brahmanists - KEEP OFF THIS THREAD - You people anyways have this whole forum for u. One Thread on Positives is not going to keep you shut there either.

 

[sarang]

I am reminded of a joke in a british comedy tv show.
Q: All senior ladies were rendered homeless today. Why?
A: because all bingo halls were closed.

We will wait for the response.

 

[sangom]

"this society" is not clear - do you mean brahmin society?

If it is society in general, the answer is possibly nil and that is why there is no response!

 

[niyengaar]

"this society" is not clear - do you mean brahmin society?

If it is society in general, the answer is possibly nil and that is why there is no response!

if you feel the answer is NIL - why dont you keep quiet ?

as i said, let this thread be for positives only.

If you dont have anything positive to contribute - keep quiet / shut up / and let the ones having positive opinions to contribute.

p.s. : This is STRICTLY Only for the Positives. All you foul-mouthers and Anti-Brahmanists - KEEP OFF THIS THREAD - You people anyways have this whole forum for u. One Thread on Positives is not going to keep you shut there either.​

 

[Nara]

....If you dont have anything positive to contribute -

OK RR, here is something that is positive from your POV, Brahmins get to count you as one of them.

 

[Yamaka]

I am fed up of people here trying to portray Brahmans very negatively.

Truth be told, these people are making me think if i should even continue here or just leave this place alone for them to continue their slagging of my Community!

Every Good thing i ve heard of my Ancestors and their Contribution to my Community as well as to the Tamil Community ( yeah, the two are different for me - thanks to you people ), is the only one which still keeps me going on here.

==========================================================================


I would like to know the Various Positive Contributions that Brahmans ve done to the Tamil Society.

I would really love to see how many here know about / rate the good things that Brahmans ve done - And how many are here just to slag us off.

Please go ahead and add the names of every brahman who has done some good to this society.


==========================================================================

p.s. : This is STRICTLY Only for the Positives. All you foul-mouthers and Anti-Brahmanists - KEEP OFF THIS THREAD - You people anyways have this whole forum for u. One Thread on Positives is not going to keep you shut there either.

Is this the Beginning of Self Segregation here? When the whole world is de-segregating! Lol

Enjoy your new ploy!

 

[carvaka]

Rajaji for Kurai onrum illai

 

[niyengaar]

so , all those who are members here - are here just to slag off Brahmans !

in spite of specifically asking the negative mongers to keep off, it has been only those ones making their mark here !

funny that every body here wants to point their hands at brahmans in every topic.

but not a single person wants to speak of the good things they ve done !

and this is a forum called tamil brahmins !


lets just wait and see how many have anything positive to contribute here about brahmans - and how many are here just to slag off.

p.s. : This is STRICTLY Only for the Positives. All you foul-mouthers and Anti-Brahmanists - KEEP OFF THIS THREAD - You people anyways have this whole forum for u. One Thread on Positives is not going to keep you shut there either.​

_n
​

 

[Yamaka]

so , all those who are members here - are here just to slag off Brahmans !

in spite of specifically asking the negative mongers to keep off, it has been only those ones making their mark here !

funny that every body here wants to point their hands at brahmans in every topic.

but not a single person wants to speak of the good things they ve done !

and this is a forum called tamil brahmins !


lets just wait and see how many have anything positive to contribute here about brahmans - and how many are here just to slag off.

p.s. : This is STRICTLY Only for the Positives. All you foul-mouthers and Anti-Brahmanists - KEEP OFF THIS THREAD - You people anyways have this whole forum for u. One Thread on Positives is not going to keep you shut there either.​

_n
​

Probably, there are about 10,000 registered TBs here.... about 1% are active members, most of whom don't like to mouth off their controversial views because they are NOT sure of what they think... and what they really WANT!

Many want to just forget and run away from the PAST.....

Only those w/o knowing the WHOLE history will show off their OWN communalism and the religiosity!

Good luck! Have fun!!

 

[saidevo]

namaste niyengaar and others.

One reason I think this thread has not received positive responses from the active members is the skeptics: that people who take EVR and other Dravidian leaders as role models, completely ignoring their hypocrisy, would seek to trash even the most exemplary among the TB eminents, making a mountain of any moles they find in them, either in this very same thread or in another. Most of these skeptics are possibly cosmopolitan TBs themselves, but would not have any qualms in donning their traditional brahmin roles in their own family functions or in the functions in their relatives' homes.

Still, let me venture to have a brief compilation about some TBs who have made positive contributions to the Tamizh society, from the informative book arunthoNDu AtRiya Tamizhaga andhaNargaL.

Scientists
001. Dr.C.V.Raman (1888-1970)

This well known scientist and Nobel laureate, was among the three brahmins to be first conferred with the 'BhArata RatnA' awards, the other two being Rajaji and Dr.S.Radhakrishnan. Dr.Raman and his wife smt.Lokasundari lived a life of dharma, treating people of all castes equally. He gave back the amounts he received as prizes for his work for the welfare of the society.

002. K.S.Gopalakrishnan (1889-1961)

This well known physicist who assisted Dr.C.V.Raman in his researches, was a scholar in both Sanskrit and Tamizh. He studied KambarAmAyaNam and tirukkuRaL and wrote essays in simple Tamizh explaining complicated concepts. He established the Tamizh Sanghams at Delhi and Calcutta.

003. G.S.Venkataraman (1930-)

A great agricultural scientist who discovered a method of using the green algae as a manure for the paddy crop. He also did research about using the protein in some algae as a food supplement. He was interested in the growth of the people in the villages and would say, "Agriculture is the most important occupation of the village people. If science keeps away from them, they cannot progress."

004. Prof.S.Mahadevan (1901-1962)

A renowned Geology scientist who pioneered the research in Oceanography and was an expert water diviner, was interested in educating women, recognizing women's rights and extended assistance to the downtrodden and minorities.

005. Prof.T.R.Govindachary (1915-2001)

A renowned professor of Organic Chemistry who founded the Amritanjan research centre and worked in the research department of SPIC. He was interested in KarnATik music and temple architecture.

006. Sir T.S.Venkataraman (1884-1963)

A renowned agricultural scientist who pioneer the research in the growth and grafted varieties of sugarcane, and made India self sufficient in sugar production. He played a key role in the Sugarcane Breeding Institute established in Coimbatore during the British rule when England too was suffering from shortage of sugar and had to depend on imports. His research was much appreciated by the then Viceroy Lord Irwin.

(more to come...)

 

[renuka]

namaste niyengaar and others.

One reason I think this thread has not received positive responses from the active members is the skeptics: that people who take EVR and other Dravidian leaders as role models, completely ignoring their hypocrisy, would seek to trash even the most exemplary among the TB eminents, making a mountain of any moles they find in them, either in this very same thread or in another. Most of these skeptics are possibly cosmopolitan TBs themselves, but would not have any qualms in donning their traditional brahmin roles in their own family functions or in the functions in their relatives' homes.

Still, let me venture to have a brief compilation about some TBs who have made positive contributions to the Tamizh society, from the informative book arunthoNDu AtRiya Tamizhaga andhaNargaL.

Scientists
001. Dr.C.V.Raman (1888-1970)

This well known scientist and Nobel laureate, was among the three brahmins to be first conferred with the 'BhArata RatnA' awards, the other two being Rajaji and Dr.S.Radhakrishnan. Dr.Raman and his wife smt.Lokasundari lived a life of dharma, treating people of all castes equally. He gave back the amounts he received as prizes for his work for the welfare of the society.

002. K.S.Gopalakrishnan (1889-1961)

This well known physicist who assisted Dr.C.V.Raman in his researches, was a scholar in both Sanskrit and Tamizh. He studied KambarAmAyaNam and tirukkuRaL and wrote essays in simple Tamizh explaining complicated concepts. He established the Tamizh Sanghams at Delhi and Calcutta.

003. G.S.Venkataraman (1930-)

A great agricultural scientist who discovered a method of using the green algae as a manure for the paddy crop. He also did research about using the protein in some algae as a food supplement. He was interested in the growth of the people in the villages and would say, "Agriculture is the most important occupation of the village people. If science keeps away from them, they cannot progress."

004. Prof.S.Mahadevan (1901-1962)

A renowned Geology scientist who pioneered the research in Oceanography and was an expert water diviner, was interested in educating women, recognizing women's rights and extended assistance to the downtrodden and minorities.

005. Prof.T.R.Govindachary (1915-2001)

A renowned professor of Organic Chemistry who founded the Amritanjan research centre and worked in the research department of SPIC. He was interested in KarnATik music and temple architecture.

006. Sir T.S.Venkataraman (1884-1963)

A renowned agricultural scientist who pioneer the research in the growth and grafted varieties of sugarcane, and made India self sufficient in sugar production. He played a key role in the Sugarcane Breeding Institute established in Coimbatore during the British rule when England too was suffering from shortage of sugar and had to depend on imports. His research was much appreciated by the then Viceroy Lord Irwin.

(more to come...)

I am just posting as a neutral person cos I dont identify with caste.
for me I just see everyone listed above as an Indian who had contributed to the country and to the world.

Here is one more..I have no idea what community this person belongs too but as he is an Indian so i have put his name here.


1)Seshachalam Appendix Artery..named after Seshachalam(we studied this in Greys anatomy.)

Artery of Sheshachalam is the accessory appendicular artery (a branch of posterior caecal artery- that is a branch of ileocolic artery)..and it runs in the mesoappendix.

 

[C RAVI]

Dear all members who love to pat the back of great Brahmin personalities for their contribution to the society,


Subramanya Bharathi (Mahakavi Bharathiyar)



Mahakavi Bharathiyar was born to Chinnasami Subramanya Iyer and Elakkumi (Lakshmi) Ammaal as "Subbayya" on December 11, 1882

Bharathi see beyond the social taboos and superstitions of orthodox South Indian society. In December 1905, he attended the All India Congress session held in Benaras. On his journey back home, he met Sister Nivedita, Vivekananda’s spiritual daughter. From her arose another of Bharathi’s iconoclasm, his stand to recognise the privileges of women. The emancipation of women exercised Bharathi’s mind greatly. He visualised the 'new woman' as an emanation of Shakti, a willing helpmate of man to build a new earth through co-operative endeavour.

His poetry expressed a progressive, reformist ideal. His imagery and the vigour of his verse symbolise Tamil culture in many respects. Bharathiyaar famously espoused greater freedom and respect for women:

We will destroy the idiocy
Of denigrating womanhood


Bharathi also fought against the caste system in Hindu society. Although born into an orthodox Brahmin family, he gave up his own caste identity. One of his great sayings meant, 'There are only two castes in the world: one who is educated and one who is not.' He considered all living beings as equal and to illustrate this he even performed upanayanam to a young harijan man and made him a Brahmin. He also scorned the divisive tendencies being imparted into the younger generations by their elderly tutors during his time. He openly criticised the preachers for mixing their individual thoughts while teaching the Vedas and the Gita.


Curtesy - Wikipedia

 

[sarang]

Many want to just forget and run away from the PAST.....

Only those w/o knowing the WHOLE history will show off their OWN communalism and the religiosity!

Good luck! Have fun!!

Communalism and religiosity! This is what all secularists, pseudo secularists, muslims and christians throw at hindus and call them right wing, hindutvavadi and fundamentalist when some timid hindu holds his ground and defends hinduism.

 

[sarang]

I would like to divide tambrams into three groups.
Group1: Those who are orthodox, learned, practise all that is considered truly brahminical and are employed in the traditional professions. They do keep the brahmin traditions alive.
Group2: Those who accept their Brahmin status, but have taken up jobs in all domains and geo locations, practice their nitya karmas as often as possible (as someone said weekend sandhyavandanam), do most of the samskaras and most important, want to follow more of tradition sometime in future (perhaps after retirement). I have come across cases where a corporate executive has sent his son to a vedapatasala and a few have left corporate jobs to take up vaidic/ temple duties. Generally, children are more likely to follow if the parents set examples. This group must extend financial and moral support to the first group. They can assert their brahminhood in non-intrusive ways. (e.g. Mr. Goplaswamy, chief election commissioner with his namam)
Group3: Those who are still Brahmin at heart, but do not practice. There is a strong likelihood that they may one day return to the fold, because the vasanas are still there.
There is no need to worry about those who have given up brahmin status for their own personal reasons – guilt complex, conversion to other isms; they will be the loudest critics of Brahmins; it is better to ignore them.
Final word: Self respect and respect for brahmins does not mean disrespect for other communities.

 

[C RAVI]

I would like to divide tambrams into three groups.
Group1: Those who are orthodox, learned, practise all that is considered truly brahminical and are employed in the traditional professions. They do keep the brahmin traditions alive.
Group2: Those who accept their Brahmin status, but have taken up jobs in all domains and geo locations, practice their nitya karmas as often as possible (as someone said weekend sandhyavandanam), do most of the samskaras and most important, want to follow more of tradition sometime in future (perhaps after retirement). I have come across cases where a corporate executive has sent his son to a vedapatasala and a few have left corporate jobs to take up vaidic/ temple duties. Generally, children are more likely to follow if the parents set examples. This group must extend financial and moral support to the first group. They can assert their brahminhood in non-intrusive ways. (e.g. Mr. Goplaswamy, chief election commissioner with his namam)
Group3: Those who are still Brahmin at heart, but do not practice. There is a strong likelihood that they may one day return to the fold, because the vasanas are still there.
There is no need to worry about those who have given up brahmin status for their own personal reasons – guilt complex, conversion to other isms; they will be the loudest critics of Brahmins; it is better to ignore them.
Final word: Self respect and respect for brahmins does not mean disrespect for other communities.

Wonderful post Shri Sarang..

 

[Yamaka]

Communalism and religiosity! This is what all secularists, pseudo secularists, muslims and christians throw at hindus and call them right wing, hindutvavadi and fundamentalist when some timid hindu holds his ground and defends hinduism.

I know I stirred up the bees nest! Lol.

"call them right wing, hindutvavadi and fundamentalist when some timid hindu holds his ground and defends hinduism."

The last part of the sentence is confusing to me: "when some timid hindu holds his ground and defends hindusim"

Are you saying that the Hindutva breathing Right Wingers are timid hindus?

Please talk to Shiva Sena Supremo Bal Thackaray! Or other RSS activists and the Friends of Nathuram Godse in this Forum.
1. Indian Muslims and Christians are religious people praising the Glory of Allah or Jesus, respectively... they are not against religiosity!

2. My view is astute Religiosity breeds Communalism because Hinduism was constructed on Casteism...that was the Grand Design of the Original Architects of Hinduism.

Who are these Architects?

Historians show these were the "Low-Melanin White Race" people who migrated from the steppe lands of Central Asia (now Kazhakstan, Turkmanistan etc) some 5000 years ago....these were the Sanskrit speaking nomadic tribes looking for the lush lands of Indus, Ganges, Narmada and Cauvery...

They designed the Brahminism in Hinduism (and Hindutva) and the Casteism.

Therefore, Hindutva and Communalism are intertwined and inseparable....

This historical fact has been fully understood by many contemporary Brahmin intellectuals around the world (many are here in this Forum)... these people deliberately and intentionally are walking AWAY from this Grand Design.

My wife is one of them...she hails from the rich delta of Cauvery in Trichy - a TB.

What I witness in real time is the Struggle between the Modern Thinkers and the Orthodoxy among TBs!

That's all....

My fond hope is sooner or later the Modernity will win over the Religious Orthodoxy!

Wait & watch.

 

[happyhindu]

Dear Y,

I beg to differ from you when you say that "Hinduism was constructed on Casteism"

Caste constructs are ancient pre-dating the varna system. The depraved slavery of the smrithis is restricted to smrithis alone. Yes the smrithis are an unfortuante blight having permeated the hindu society at all levels.

Totemic deities, worship methods, tantra or agamas, yoga, saiva siddhanta, and also sv philosophy, have been in existence for ages. These were not built on casteism.

I am sorry to say but i find no basis to agree that hinduism itself was constructed on casteism. I shall say brahmanism (labour laws) was constructed on casteism. But brahmanism need not represent hinduism.

Regards.

 

[sangom]

Dear Y,

I beg to differ from you when you say that "Hinduism was constructed on Casteism"

Caste constructs are ancient pre-dating the varna system. The depraved slavery of the smrithis is restricted to smrithis alone. Yes the smrithis are an unfortuante blight having permeated the hindu society at all levels.

Totemic deities, worship methods, tantra or agamas, yoga, saiva siddhanta, and also sv philosophy, have been in existence for ages. These were not built on casteism.

I am sorry to say but i find no basis to agree that hinduism itself was constructed on casteism. I shall say brahmanism (labour laws) was constructed on casteism. But brahmanism need not represent hinduism.

Regards.

What is the Hinduism without casteism you are referring to? When did it exist and for how long?
Clarification please.

 

[sangom]

Group2: Those who accept their Brahmin status, but have taken up jobs in all domains and geo locations, practice their nitya karmas as often as possible (as someone said weekend sandhyavandanam), do most of the samskaras and most important, want to follow more of tradition sometime in future (perhaps after retirement).

How can another person judge this wanting to follow more of tradition sometime in future (perhaps after retirement)? For clarification please.

I have come across cases where a corporate executive has sent his son to a vedapatasala and a few have left corporate jobs to take up vaidic/ temple duties. Generally, children are more likely to follow if the parents set examples.

Is there any information about how the corporate executive's son feels about this stint in vedapatasala? Anyway, for him his future is assured because father's earnings will be there But the last sentence has been disproved by history; many tabras whose father made them vaideekans chose to ensure that their sons do not become vaideekans. If we trace our family history, we all will find such a drastic decision somewhere by some forefather which is the cause of all of us now coming under the group2 or group 3.

 

[subbudu1]

How can another person judge this wanting to follow more of tradition sometime in future (perhaps after retirement)? For clarification please.


.

I cannot control myself with laughter. This statement must be marked in golden letters and put above , for all to see. If tradition is good enough to be followed only as a hobby or only for after retirement then one may conclude that it is some kind of unimportant thing, or some passtime . Like if there is no other work then alone it be pursued. I wouldnt be surprised if the youngsters of these after retirement vaidikas take it to the logical conclusion and proclaim - "I have better hobbies why not a game of soccer during the weekend, it keeps you trim and fit"

 

[happyhindu]

What is the Hinduism without casteism you are referring to? When did it exist and for how long?
Clarification please.

Dear sir, considering that as tribals, there were tribal dieties and worship forms to dieties (no idea since when these existed) , and also the fact that getting initiated into tantra vidya, learning yoga, did not depend on caste, therefore hindusim without casteism has existed / can exist imo..Regards.

 

[Yamaka]

Dear Y,

I beg to differ from you when you say that "Hinduism was constructed on Casteism"

Caste constructs are ancient pre-dating the varna system. The depraved slavery of the smrithis is restricted to smrithis alone. Yes the smrithis are an unfortuante blight having permeated the hindu society at all levels.

Totemic deities, worship methods, tantra or agamas, yoga, saiva siddhanta, and also sv philosophy, have been in existence for ages. These were not built on casteism.

I am sorry to say but i find no basis to agree that hinduism itself was constructed on casteism. I shall say brahmanism (labour laws) was constructed on casteism. But brahmanism need not represent hinduism.

Regards.

Hello HH:

I agree with you to some extent...

However, I am not quite sure when exactly "Hinduism that we know of" got started..

As Vedas are the basis of "Hinduism that we know of", don't you find caste consciousness in them?

I concede that there was religious worships (idol worship, in particular) in pre-Vedic period... and even Lord Shiva worship (Lingam worship) predates Vedas, people say.

Also, I learn that early Casteism was benign, not strictly based "ON Birth", but on "profession".

It became very oppressive when "by birth" was the basis of Caste Hierarchy... When exactly such transformation occurred? I am not quite sure...

Most probably, some time AFTER the teachings and practices of Adi Sankara and Ramanuja (1100 CE)..

Probably, historians will have plenty to say about this transformation.

Regards.

 

[sangom]

Dear sir, considering that as tribals, there were tribal dieties and worship forms to dieties (no idea since when these existed) , and also the fact that getting initiated into tantra vidya, learning yoga, did not depend on caste, therefore hindusim without casteism has existed / can exist imo..Regards.

Smt. Happy Hindu,

It looks to me that Tantra was not and still is not considered as part of the vedic hinduism; yoga is taken as one of the Darsanas but Advaitha somehow does not endorse yoga - Sankara's stand vis-a-vis samkhya, yoga etc are debatable and unclear. As for Patanjali's yoga sutras, it would have been considered heretical, like Buddhism, if it had not accepted the vedas and hence the chaturvarnya, imo.

Hence Hinduism or Sanatana Dharma without the Chaturvarnya was unthinkable after the Purusha sukta days in my view.

 

[sangom]

Hello HH:

I agree with you to some extent...

However, I am not quite sure when exactly "Hinduism that we know of" got started..

As Vedas are the basis of "Hinduism that we know of", don't you find caste consciousness in them?

I concede that there was religious worships (idol worship, in particular) in pre-Vedic period... and even Lord Shiva worship (Lingam worship) predates Vedas, people say.

Also, I learn that early Casteism was benign, not strictly based "ON Birth", but on "profession".

It became very oppressive when "by birth" was the basis of Caste Hierarchy... When exactly such transformation occurred? I am not quite sure...

Most probably, some time AFTER the teachings and practices of Adi Sankara and Ramanuja (1100 CE)..

Probably, historians will have plenty to say about this transformation.

Regards.

Y,

The "tribal labels" to which HH refers was not caste at all times and in all cases according to me. (Just my opinion based on my readings, I cannot provide any evidence to support now.) At one level this tribe concept seems to have been borrowed by the Vedic society (Aryans, hereafter only for brevity's sake) in inventing its "Gotra" concept and system and banning sagotra marriages (again, a tribal custom mostly). It is also possible that some tribes were admitted into the Aryan fold and given the status of one or the other of the three twice-born castes as a sop, and such tribal influx brought with it the notion of Gotras and not marrying from the same Gotra.

The Tantrik "kula" concept is different I believe and I am not sure if they prohibit or insist on marriage within the same kula.

Caste by birth is clearly discernible in Manu smriti itself and the various other smritis also talk of varna assignation based on the varnas of parents. Hence I feel it will be difficult to assume that the rigidity of castes or varna by birth is a post-sankaran phenomenon.

I think Ramanuja also endorses the four-caste system strongly.

 

[Nara]

....I think Ramanuja also endorses the four-caste system strongly.

Yes...

When or if caste got subsumed into varna and under what circumstances, I don't know. But the word "jAti" is found in Manu and BG and are connected to Varna. So, if caste existed as benign social construct, then, that must be before the time of these texts or before the time these terminologies were interpolated, if that is what happened.

Cheers!