< RULE - Only Positives > Brahmans' Positive contributions to the Tamil Society.

[happyhindu]

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Hello HH:

I agree with you to some extent...

However, I am not quite sure when exactly "Hinduism that we know of" got started..

As Vedas are the basis of "Hinduism that we know of", don't you find caste consciousness in them?

I concede that there was religious worships (idol worship, in particular) in pre-Vedic period... and even Lord Shiva worship (Lingam worship) predates Vedas, people say.

Also, I learn that early Casteism was benign, not strictly based "ON Birth", but on "profession".

It became very oppressive when "by birth" was the basis of Caste Hierarchy... When exactly such transformation occurred? I am not quite sure...

Most probably, some time AFTER the teachings and practices of Adi Sankara and Ramanuja (1100 CE)..

Probably, historians will have plenty to say about this transformation.

Regards.

Dear Y,

As Sangom sir says, varna consciousness started from the days of purusha sukta (i read abt this in some books also, so i think it is agreed upon by some historians also).

Castes as occupational units of tribes have existed since pre-varna days. When we say "pre-varna" days it means before the period when the development of language / literature indicated presence of varnas.

Since life was primitive, hence it is considered that occupational units (jaatis / castes) did not indicate oppression. Please see this link for the village organisation of Savaras - Welcome to Tribal Cultural Research & Training Institute As you can note they have 'castes" like shamans (kurobo). And occupations like a village "chief". However, there is no indication that the shamans and chiefs oppressed others.

Similarly was reading in some book that the adiyor of Tholkappiyam were stated to be just servents - there is no indication that they were abused or forced to do things against their wishes. Perhaps (i feel), if one fell in love with all concepts which the deity represented, then he was free to serve the diety. But these were primitive times.

Here the difference is between the tribal model and a (developed) state model. In a developed state model, "varnas" turned out to be means of production, of sustaining the economy by having defined classes. A tribal model did not have such means of production despite having "castes" simply because primitive village settlements did not have such an economy .

Lets imagine there were no varnas. I feel that in such a case, as society developed, eventually one group would have ended up as a slave category to handle all the dirty jobs like managing sanitation requirements of a 'town'. Simply because no man will do such jobs willingly.

So although it become easy to blame varnas, we must remember that perhaps "castes" of the pre-varna age, with the passage of time, may have developed in a similar fashion, if left unhindered by 'varnas'.

All the same, am against giving such labour-division laws a 'spiritual' twist. In the old days, maybe the level of understanding was limited to just that much.

Linking socio-political organisation of labour with religion was supposedly the easiest way to legitimise the system. Which is why you find slavery in the Quran and Bible also. They were just old societies.

IMO, it is easy to delink religion from these kind of primitive social-organisations (of castes and varnas); since anyways dieties and worship forms are ancient.

The number of dieties and worship forms amongst various tribals is mind blowing. For example, the Gonds worshipped an earth goddess and performed human sacrifice (their worship pattern imo could be linked to the kalibangan sites of ivc; because of the similarity). The Gotr ceremony of the Gadaba tribe may even be similar to a vedic ceremony of sacrificing Buffaloes. Since the linga (sisna deva) has been mentioned in the Rig, one may say that such gods have been in existence since very long; maybe under different names.

According to social historians, as tribals evolved into a developed society, their dieties also evolved. Imo, some may have become 'vedic-ized' that is absorbed or mentioned by the 'vedic' people in the 'vedic' period. While some (imo) may have become purana-ized, that is become absorbed into a 'hindu' system thru puranas. Who knows maybe Jamua Sum (the savara god of death) became identified with the yama-markendeya story later. Locating which tribal god became mainstream hindu god can be fun...

One can say the religion of tribals like savaras is spiritism [Savaras have a pantheon of spirits or gods. Their word for God is "sonnum'. They do not have the concept of a supreme god. Instead they worship a variety of spirits, both evil and good spiritis, as sonnums (gods). This link has some description on their practices - Spirits of Tribal India ]...

So i suppose hindu practices developed from spiritism, nature worship, animism, etc -- there need not be caste-consciousness wrt worship practices.

Regards.

 

[sarang]

This thread was started with a different aim and purpose. Why are some keen to derail and jump in to meddle and muddle? Back patting in full force!

 

[renuka]

This thread was started with a different aim and purpose. Why are some keen to derail and jump in to meddle and muddle? Back patting in full force!

Dont worry..its called "Hijacker Syndrome".All of us can learn that game too.

 

[C RAVI]

This thread was started with a different aim and purpose. Why are some keen to derail and jump in to meddle and muddle? Back patting in full force!

Such problem arises when the predetermined intention is to consistently acheive "plan the work and work the plan" such that the predetermined motive is achieved.

"Live and Let Live" is hardly a prevailing social norm in this present modern world of science and technologically driven materialistic world.

It is really disheartning when glorifying eminent personalities of a social group is been attempted to throw away as garbage, unmindful of considering the contribution of great humnas. Even remembering, revering and highlighting the achievements of such social/scientific/technological contributors as humans were been rejected on the grounds of their caste identity.

What to do? When, we as Brahmins by birth who all don't want to feel guilty of the acts of easter years forefathers and who all are well in synch with present global environment, though been suppressed and discriminated in physical social living environment are keeping quiet, got used to and silently struggling to excell in life through any possible ways and means THAN, it should not be hard for us to diggest the same in this virtual world.

 

[sarang]

Always by those inimical to the cause? That is why it is called hijacking.

Dont worry..its called "Hijacker Syndrome".All of us can learn that game too.

 

[sarang]

To quote perry mason "irrelevant, immaterial and not pertaining to the case"; hamilton burgher is still alive.

Dear Y,

As Sangom sir says, varna consciousness started from the days of purusha sukta (i read abt this in some books also, so i think it is agreed upon by some historians also).

Castes as occupational units of tribes have existed since pre-varna days. When we say "pre-varna" days it means before the period when the development of language / literature indicated presence of varnas.

Since life was primitive, hence it is considered that occupational units (jaatis / castes) did not indicate oppression. Please see this link for the village organisation of Savaras - Welcome to Tribal Cultural Research & Training Institute As you can note they have 'castes" like shamans (kurobo). And occupations like a village "chief". However, there is no indication that the shamans and chiefs oppressed others.

Similarly was reading in some book that the adiyor of Tholkappiyam were stated to be just servents - there is no indication that they were abused or forced to do things against their wishes. Perhaps (i feel), if one fell in love with all concepts which the deity represented, then he was free to serve the diety. But these were primitive times.

Here the difference is between the tribal model and a (developed) state model. In a developed state model, "varnas" turned out to be means of production, of sustaining the economy by having defined classes. A tribal model did not have such means of production despite having "castes" simply because primitive village settlements did not have such an economy .

Lets imagine there were no varnas. I feel that in such a case, as society developed, eventually one group would have ended up as a slave category to handle all the dirty jobs like managing sanitation requirements of a 'town'. Simply because no man will do such jobs willingly.

So although it become easy to blame varnas, we must remember that perhaps "castes" of the pre-varna age, with the passage of time, may have developed in a similar fashion, if left unhindered by 'varnas'.

All the same, am against giving such labour-division laws a 'spiritual' twist. In the old days, maybe the level of understanding was limited to just that much.

Linking socio-political organisation of labour with religion was supposedly the easiest way to legitimise the system. Which is why you find slavery in the Quran and Bible also. They were just old societies.

IMO, it is easy to delink religion from these kind of primitive social-organisations (of castes and varnas); since anyways dieties and worship forms are ancient.

The number of dieties and worship forms amongst various tribals is mind blowing. For example, the Gonds worshipped an earth goddess and performed human sacrifice (their worship pattern imo could be linked to the kalibangan sites of ivc; because of the similarity). The Gotr ceremony of the Gadaba tribe may even be similar to a vedic ceremony of sacrificing Buffaloes. Since the linga (sisna deva) has been mentioned in the Rig, one may say that such gods have been in existence since very long; maybe under different names.

According to social historians, as tribals evolved into a developed society, their dieties also evolved. Imo, some may have become 'vedic-ized' that is absorbed or mentioned by the 'vedic' people in the 'vedic' period. While some (imo) may have become purana-ized, that is become absorbed into a 'hindu' system thru puranas. Who knows maybe Jamua Sum (the savara god of death) became identified with the yama-markendeya story later. Locating which tribal god became mainstream hindu god can be fun...

One can say the religion of tribals like savaras is spiritism [Savaras have a pantheon of spirits or gods. Their word for God is "sonnum'. They do not have the concept of a supreme god. Instead they worship a variety of spirits, both evil and good spiritis, as sonnums (gods). This link has some description on their practices - Spirits of Tribal India ]...

So i suppose hindu practices developed from spiritism, nature worship, animism, etc -- there need not be caste-consciousness wrt worship practices.

Regards.

 

[sangom]

This thread was started with a different aim and purpose. Why are some keen to derail and jump in to meddle and muddle? Back patting in full force!

Always by those inimical to the cause? That is why it is called hijacking.

Shri Sarang,

In this forum most threads which are capable of being "hijacked", as you lament, are sure to be hijacked. In this case, Shri niyengaar wanted to hear some eulogies, on the lines of the olden days' ப்ரசஸ்தி (praśasti) or the Gadya compositions like Raghuveera Gadyam, Venkatesa Gadyam, etc., in which only good things are mentioned. Even if one has to say, in a praśasti, that a king had a squint in his eye, the praśasti might describe it as "the valorous king who conquered all the three worlds (even though it would be covering the entire area covering a few villages) with only one eye and ...so on.

This sort of eulogies on TBs or Bs in general, are not easily found, as may be evident now, from the responses in the thread. And just as air fills a vacuum, several posts on consequential topics now fill the thread.

Please take this little philosophically.

 

[sarang]

Let us continue the good work ignoring the distractions. What cannot be cured must be endured.

 

[happyhindu]

Let us continue the good work ignoring the distractions. What cannot be cured must be endured.

Endurance is what NBs have done. Too much endurance. You just need to read some slavery reports to cry. But the plates are turned upside down now. Idiocy is the word to be used for those who ran after and still run after labels like 'kshatriyas' and 'vaishyas' in this day and age. Foolish social-groups who fell for dvijas status, and the dharmashastra (smrithi) nonsense, woke up late. Very late. So what Bs are facing is less than 100 years old.

Unfortunately since orthodoxy cannot be cured, yes you need to endure. This i do not say on a personal note. This is the writing on the wall which the public says, thru reservations and discrimination against Bs -- which is not going to disappear for a long time to come. Such being the case, plenty of endurance is what you need. Not just ordinary endurance. The additional endurance also to accept the fact that no one wants Bs today who keep birth-based discrimination alive, claim incapability on their part to change orthodoxy; and yet want equality in secular jobs, secular life, secular circles.

Personally i think its a huge miracle that TBs remain a highly flourishing group in tamilnadu today despite all the backlog. Ofcourse you can sing your paens and prasastis, and ignore this distraction and continue the good work.

 

[sravna]

Brahmins contribution to the Tamil society is definitely a prominent one. By far their most important contribution has been to show that mature approach is possible even in adverse situations. To me this seems remarkable because they are able to do this as a group. When there is a rush of blood at even slight provocations and violence erupts for trivial reasons, to show that you can be calm in trying situations is something that should be taken as a model. This non violent attitude shouldn't be construed as weakness. To me this is philosophy in practice. They stand out in intellectual endeavors and have fought for social issues. Their contributions to arts and music is no less.

 

[C RAVI]

Brahmins contribution to the Tamil society is definitely a prominent one. By far their most important contribution has been to show that mature approach is possible even in adverse situations. To me this seems remarkable because they are able to do this as a group. When there is a rush of blood at even slight provocations and violence erupts for trivial reasons, to show that you can be calm in trying situations is something that should be taken as a model. This non violent attitude shouldn't be construed as weakness. To me this is philosophy in practice. They stand out in intellectual endeavors and have fought for social issues. Their contributions to arts and music is no less.

Perfect post Shri Sravna....

The only weakness of Brahmins as common folks in Brhamins society is, Brhamins have rejected the idea of "United We Stay Strong". Again there is a reason behind it. The reason is, none of them could comfortablly practiced it due to intellectual and success level comparison between themselves. The killer instict of "Show how intellectual and successful you are" seem to have forced them to ever compete and be fascinated with the defeat of other fellow Brahmins, IMO.

 

[saidevo]

(continued from post #10)

Government Servants
007. S.Parthasarathy Iyengar IPS (1903-1983)

A fearless IPS officer known for his integrity and discipline.

• He declined an offer to serve in England, preferring to serve in India. He served as a distinguished COP at Chennai, besides working in Madurai and the then TiruvAnkUr SamasthAnam. He also served as the Chief of the Railway Security and brought in some reforms there.

• He was conferred with the gold medals of the British government as well as Nehru's government. He never allowed interference of politicians in his work and once arrested an aggressive anti-social man, losing a finger in the encounter when the suspect cut tried to cut him with a knife.

• Although a police officer of a superior rank, he lived in a rented house. After his retirement he was engaged in social service, serving in the administrative panels of the Hindu High School and Vivekananda College. He was also a right to Ahmed Syed, founder of the SIET Women's College, Chennai and served there for five years.

• During the time when untouchability was rampant, his grandmother created a stir by being compassionate towards the Harijan people and serving them food in her house.

008. Rao Bahadur S.Narayana Iyer (1874-1937)

A close friend of the world renowned mathematician Srinivasa Ramanujam who encouraged the latter in his work. Although he was from a poor family with his father and grandfather serving as Veda Purohits and were honourary astrologers of Madurai Meenakshi Amman temple, he managed to work hard and get an MA degree in Mathematics. Starting his career as a manager in the administrative wing of Madras harbour, he gradually rose in his career and became the Chief Auditor in 1912. In appreciation of his excellent services the British government conferred the 'Rao Bahadur' title on him.

• When Ramanujam worked in the Madras harbour for nearly a year, Narayana Iyer published some research papers of his friend in 1913, even before Ramanujam went to England and his talents were discovered by Prof.Hardy and his papers published in England.

• He was among the founder members of the Indian Mathematics Club, which later became Indian Mathematics Association. He lived a simple life and took it as a duty to serve the poor. A pious man, he was interested in the teachings of Ramana Maharshi.

009. R.V.Krishna Iyer (1884-1974)

A distinguished statesman who served in the Legislative Assemblies formed in 1919, 1935 and 1952 and as admired as the 'guru' of the Legislative Assembly. Dr.S.Radhakrishnan was his college mate at Christian College, Chennai. Krishnan practiced law at Salem in association with Rajaji. He was also associated with Mahakavi Bharatiyar, and with EVR when working in a district judge in Erode. When Sir CP Ramaswamy Iyer was the Law Minister of Madras State, it was only through Krishnan who was then staying at Bangalore that the agreement of sharing the Cauvery waters between Madras and Mysore was signed. In 1948 he drafted the law for abolishing the zamindari system.

010. pulikkuTTi--tiger cub Duraisamy

He was a renowned Sub-Inspector of Police who was honoured with the King's police medal. Known as pulikkuTTi Duraisamy among the populace, he led the police force that was formed in Oct. 1931 to capture the bandits group of Kadirvelu and his partner Marimuthu who was terrorizing the people in the Tanjore, Trichy and South Arcot districts. Kadirvelu was wanted for the murder of two police sub-inspectors and a constable, besides many cases of assault and robbery. In the police encounter, Kadirvelu started firing on the police and was shot dead. His partner Marimuthu and other group members were later either caught or killed in encounters. (This account is found in the The History of Madras Police, a 1959 TN Government publication).

(to continue...)

 

[niyengaar]

This thread was started with a different aim and purpose. Why are some keen to derail and jump in to meddle and muddle? Back patting in full force!

nice to see that somebody could spot this

 

[niyengaar]

Such problem arises when the predetermined intention is to consistently acheive "plan the work and work the plan" such that the predetermined motive is achieved.

"Live and Let Live" is hardly a prevailing social norm in this present modern world of science and technologically driven materialistic world.

It is really disheartning when glorifying eminent personalities of a social group is been attempted to throw away as garbage, unmindful of considering the contribution of great humnas. Even remembering, revering and highlighting the achievements of such social/scientific/technological contributors as humans were been rejected on the grounds of their caste identity.

What to do? When, we as Brahmins by birth who all don't want to feel guilty of the acts of easter years forefathers and who all are well in synch with present global environment, though been suppressed and discriminated in physical social living environment are keeping quiet, got used to and silently struggling to excell in life through any possible ways and means THAN, it should not be hard for us to diggest the same in this virtual world.

lols - but they call themselves neutral ! they do not even have the guts to acknowledge what they are trying to do ...

 

[niyengaar]

Perfect post Shri Sravna....

The only weakness of Brahmins as common folks in Brhamins society is, Brhamins have rejected the idea of "United We Stay Strong". Again there is a reason behind it. The reason is, none of them could comfortablly practiced it due to intellectual and success level comparison between themselves. The killer instict of "Show how intellectual and successful you are" seem to have forced them to ever compete and be fascinated with the defeat of other fellow Brahmins, IMO.

unfortunately true.

 

[sarang]

S V Sekar: Kalaimamani, prabla drama-cinema actor, mla.

Some excerpts from his article "I am a brahmin" (in tamizh)

1. Brahmana dwesham has as expressed in posters and writings on the walls is absent now; we must continue our fight till it is totally eliminated.

2. We must ensure that whoever abuses brahmins are defeated in elections.

3. Is there any conflict between brahmins and dalits in tamilnadu? is there an instance where brahmins practice untouchability - access to common well, water taps, temple entry etc. Is there any instance of violent conflict, attack, knifing, vettu-kuththu between dalits and brahmins?

4. Our matham, jati are god given. To oppose or insult our status is equivalent to spitting on ourselves. Let us do the criticisms inside our houses, but loudly proclaim our 'jati perumai' in public. We must consider it our duty to give a befitting reply who demean us in public.

5. We must remember our heritage and give our best to society. There is no fear or worry for the brahmin community as we are guided by great souls like kanchi sankaracharyas, dayananda saraswati.

ref: Tamizhaga andanar varalaru; LKM publication, chennai

 

[Nara]

To quote perry mason "irrelevant, immaterial and not pertaining to the case"; hamilton burgher is still alive.

Actaully sarang, if one goes strictly by the title of this thread, much of what is being presented as Brahmin contribution is irrelevant, immaterial and not pertaining to the case. What the title calls for is positive contributions to Tamil society, but what is being presented mostly is a list of prominent "Brahmins" who have made a name for themselves in a variety of fields, with no mention of what contribution was made to Tamil society.

Further, this thread was started in reaction to what was perceived as "foul-mouthers" and "anti-Brahmanists" portraying brahmins very negatively. This itself is a false premise. The criticism was always about Brahminism, a religion that holds dharmashsathras sacrosanct. The criticism was never directed at individual Brahmins, it is the ideology that was criticized.

In reaction to this you fellows want to do some chest-thumping by going deeper into Brahminism and conflating individual achievements of those who happen to be Brahmins as that of contribution of Brahminism to the welfare of Tamil society -- very weak.

Anyway, you guys have a right to wallow in self-congratulatory caste-pride, go at it all you like, but keep in mind, this peacock dance is very unseemly.

Cheers!

 

[sarang]

S V Sekar, same source:

The EVR rationalists have now changed their tune for the sake of votes - we don't oppose brahmins, we oppose only brahminism. This is nothing bur brahmin bashing under a different pretext.

One who doesn't subscribe to communism, rationalism or say christianity cannot be a communist, rationalist or a christian. Like saying, I don't like christianity, but like christians; like muslims, but hate islam.

Tambrams have become aware of such euphemisms; it is the duty of parents to educate their children on traditions and samskaras. And make them read relevant literature, especially books that explode the anti brahmin myths. The well informed son or daughter is free to choose the path.

 

[Yamaka]

This thread was started with a different aim and purpose. Why are some keen to derail and jump in to meddle and muddle? Back patting in full force!

Many Brahmins today (even in this Forum) consider "Casteism" that they invented and practice(d) is the greatest POSITIVE contribution to Tamil Society.

Therefore, Casteism is discussed here!

Peace.

 

[Yamaka]

S V Sekar, same source:

The EVR rationalists have now changed their tune for the sake of votes - we don't oppose brahmins, we oppose only brahminism. This is nothing bur brahmin bashing under a different pretext.

One who doesn't subscribe to communism, rationalism or say christianity cannot be a communist, rationalist or a christian. Like saying, I don't like christianity, but like christians; like muslims, but hate islam.

Tambrams have become aware of such euphemisms; it is the duty of parents to educate their children on traditions and samskaras. And make them read relevant literature, especially books that explode the anti brahmin myths. The well informed son or daughter is free to choose the path.

What's Brahminism?

IMO, it is the idea that Brahmins are the Superior people chosen by God to sit at the top of the Oppressive Caste Pyramid and dictate others under the Pyramid.

Even today we see this Brahminism residing in the "genes and bones" of very many Brahmins.

My own fil is a Brahmin Supremacist... He openly tells (ME - I am an Atheist, a Rationalist) that all good things in India happen BECAUSE of upper caste Brahmins, and all bad things happen because of lower caste people.

EVR came to the scene only to expose this bogus Brahminism and its untold misery!

Once this vile and venal Brahminism vanishes from the land, everything will come to "normalcy"...

Wait & watch.

 

[sarang]

This joke was in circulation long ago. When an american pedestrian sees a fellow citizen in a chauffeur driven limousine, he will take a vow - one day I will own a bigger, more luxurious car. Whereas an englishman in a similar situation will say - I will see that one day he too walks like me on the footpath.

If some brahmins think that they are superior, so be it. What is the harm? Nothing stops others putting themselves in a higher pedestal and claim superiority.

 

[sangom]

This joke was in circulation long ago. When an american pedestrian sees a fellow citizen in a chauffeur driven limousine, he will take a vow - one day I will own a bigger, more luxurious car. Whereas an englishman in a similar situation will say - I will see that one day he too walks like me on the footpath.

If some brahmins think that they are superior, so be it. What is the harm? Nothing stops others putting themselves in a higher pedestal and claim superiority.

If the superiority is based on some personal achievements or even family's, like the Chauffeur-driven limousine, it will be one thing; but like S.V.Sekhar says "Our matham, jati are god given.", it is an entirely different matter. It is this latter kind of superiority and the God which gave that superior matham and jaathi which are being analysed.

 

[C RAVI]

If the superiority is based on some personal achievements or even family's, like the Chauffeur-driven limousine, it will be one thing; but like S.V.Sekhar says "Our matham, jati are god given.", it is an entirely different matter. It is this latter kind of superiority and the God which gave that superior matham and jaathi which are being analysed.

Shri Sangom,

Isn't that every Theist irrespective of any caste say "I am God given, my community is under God given superior directions of survival, etc..etc, in this present India??

 

[sangom]

Shri Sangom,

Isn't that every Theist irrespective of any caste say "I am God given, my community is under God given superior directions of survival, etc..etc, in this present India??

Dear Shri Ravi,

It is true that almost all indians are aware of their caste, and sub-caste; either the elders instil that consciousness in the kids or the society at large takes over. But I have had occasion to move with several people of various castes, sub-castes, but I have not found the "superiority complex" in many of the people like that reflected in S.V. Sekhar's words "Our matham, jati are god given. To oppose or insult our status is equivalent to spitting on ourselves. Let us do the criticisms inside our houses, but loudly proclaim our 'jati perumai' in public."

It is however true that most people will defend and protect their caste, to the extent possible, but not out of "jaathipperumai" but out of a sense of belonging to that caste. It is similar to our attitude towards our family, in the smaller circle; we have a sense of belonging to our family, but we do not immediately start saying "My family is made by God and I must loudly proclaim my kudumbapperumai, etc.", though we will all defend, and protect it from attacks at any cost.

So, you see, the caste superiority as expressed by Sekhar, is different from the common caste feeling found in many people. I have also not generally found the feeling as reflected in your statement viz., I am God given, my community is under God given superior directions of survival. At best, people will bring in God at the ultimate level of controller of fate, that we are mere puppets in the hands of God and so on; but generally I have not found people having the feeling that their caste is under God given super powers, etc. May be this is there among Muslims and Sikhs because I did not have much of an opportunity to closely move with people from these two categories.

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Shri Ravi,

It is true that almost all indians are aware of their caste, and sub-caste; either the elders instil that consciousness in the kids or the society at large takes over. But I have had occasion to move with several people of various castes, sub-castes, but I have not found the "superiority complex" in many of the people like that reflected in S.V. Sekhar's words "Our matham, jati are god given. To oppose or insult our status is equivalent to spitting on ourselves. Let us do the criticisms inside our houses, but loudly proclaim our 'jati perumai' in public."

It is however true that most people will defend and protect their caste, to the extent possible, but not out of "jaathipperumai" but out of a sense of belonging to that caste. It is similar to our attitude towards our family, in the smaller circle; we have a sense of belonging to our family, but we do not immediately start saying "My family is made by God and I must loudly proclaim my kudumbapperumai, etc.", though we will all defend, and protect it from attacks at any cost.

So, you see, the caste superiority as expressed by Sekhar, is different from the common caste feeling found in many people. I have also not generally found the feeling as reflected in your statement viz., I am God given, my community is under God given superior directions of survival. At best, people will bring in God at the ultimate level of controller of fate, that we are mere puppets in the hands of God and so on; but generally I have not found people having the feeling that their caste is under God given super powers, etc. May be this is there among Muslims and Sikhs because I did not have much of an opportunity to closely move with people from these two categories.

Shri Sangom,

You are much senior to me and I believe I need not to point you out what is what in ground reality...But since for debating purpose when you have determined to remained focus on other side, I think, I need to share with you something with the hope that you can see it with your open eyes and graciously accept the ground reality.

Sir,

What Mr.S.V.Sekar said about our matham and jaathi was not to establish supremacy and make anouncement that brahmins are the ultimate products of GOD and the rest are crap.

While saying - "Our matham, jati are god given",

He didn't say that we are the ONLY God given jathi of our matham. He just reiterated that "our matham and our jathi too is God given like any other matham and jathi".


When he added that-"To oppose or insult our status is equivalent to spitting on ourselves. Let us do the criticisms inside our houses, but loudly proclaim our 'jati perumai' in public."

He is highlighting clearly (that we all know and accept) that we Brahmins are socially and politically opposed & insulted in this present India. If we fellow Brahmins join hands with the other group of social and political segment in all their dirty work for their selfish advantages, it would be like spitting on our own face. If we have something to criticize about our own community, let us do that as a family within ourself. But don't attack our community people from outside, joining the other side. And be bold to proclaim that you are indeed proud to be a Brhamin (like how every caste people are proud of their caste and are not ashamed) of the present era and not ashamed. (every caste has its pride and dignity. This pride and dignity is nothing to be superior to other but to have Self Esteem, Self Dignity and Self Respect).


When he further concluded that - "We must consider it our duty to give a befitting reply who demean us in public."

He is clearing calling our community to join hands in upholding our Self Esteem, Self Dignity and Self Respect. Don't succumb to the shenanigans of dirty politicians and mean society people who all demean and degrade our community in public.


In all other statements of Mr.S.V.Sekar, highlighted by Shri sarang in this post #41, he neither has established any Brahmins Supremacy nor has provoked Brahmins to get on the toes to attack other community people to suppress them.


Is shall reproduce them below, by copy and paste, between the dotted lines, for your kind perusal. I hope Shri sarang would not mistake me doing this from his post content..

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1. Brahmana dwesham has as expressed in posters and writings on the walls is absent now; we must continue our fight till it is totally eliminated.

2. We must ensure that whoever abuses brahmins are defeated in elections.

3. Is there any conflict between brahmins and dalits in tamilnadu? is there an instance where brahmins practice untouchability - access to common well, water taps, temple entry etc. Is there any instance of violent conflict, attack, knifing, vettu-kuththu between dalits and brahmins?

4. Our matham, jati are god given. To oppose or insult our status is equivalent to spitting on ourselves. Let us do the criticisms inside our houses, but loudly proclaim our 'jati perumai' in public. We must consider it our duty to give a befitting reply who demean us in public.

5. We must remember our heritage and give our best to society. There is no fear or worry for the brahmin community as we are guided by great souls like kanchi sankaracharyas, dayananda saraswati.

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Shri Sangom,

Hope members will go through the above extract again without preoccupying their mind with something against Mr.S.V.Sekar as an individual and just because he is talking for a Brahmin cause. If at all members have such mental preoccupation.


Shri Sangom,

Knowing what way the present political crooks and politically misused and miss leaded society people are oppressing our community, if we educated brahmins misinterpret what Mr.S.V.Saker has stated, there is no doubt to conclude that educated folks like us have decided to join hands with the dirty works of Indian politicians. No doubt why India couldn't be a well developed country yet and why many Indians believe that any no. peaceful protest by people like Anna Hazare would hardly correct our country to the best.



Shri Sangom,

I am really disheartened to note how fellow brahmins close their eyes and fail to realize the need of social and political justice to all and one in this 21st century, based on respect and dignity for all in society and fair Political/Governmental/Administrative policies and strategies, in our present India.