Sad reality and bitter truths of Hindus in America

[prasad1]

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You are talking of external factors. The psyche of all of them is exposed to teachings that advocate self control and practising higher values. Going after material comforts was never on the agenda in India unlike in the western countries where it was encouraged. The fundamental divide between the two is undeniable.

Have not are trained to dream not.
Because the dreamer will rise and the ruling class will be in trouble. It was always helpful for the ruling class to keep the common folk suppressed. So they employed religion to keep them quite. If Material comfort was not the goal of the ruling class why would they build grand palaces and multiple wives. The opulent of the Indian kings was well known. So before perching the values to others, check your facts.

 

[sravna]

Have not are trained to dream not.
Because the dreamer will rise and the ruling class will be in trouble. It was always helpful for the ruling class to keep the common folk suppressed. So they employed religion to keep them quite. If Material comfort was not the goal of the ruling class why would they build grand palaces and multiple wives. The opulent of the Indian kings was well known. So before perching the values to others, check your facts.

Whose preaching was the above? You have to understand the big picture before you understand why certain things were as they were.

 

[prasad1]

A tour of the world's most religious countries wouldn't be all mountaintop shrines and magnificent temples -- it would also take you to some pretty bleak places. Gallup Polls in 143 countries reveal that among countries where average annual incomes are $2,000 or less, 92% of residents say religion is an important part of their daily lives. By contrast, among the richest countries surveyed -- those where average annual incomes are $25,000 or more -- that figure drops to 44%.

We used to allow snake oil salesmen to sell cures for various ailments. Did the cures work? Who knows! They didn't have to show that they work. Hopefully the "cures" don't kill you. Let the buyer beware.

We've largely moved on since then. You can't sell a product any more where you make wild claims that aren't backed by reality. But there's one exception: religion.

Religion claims to offer a unique service. Sure, you could spend your money on a new car. But that new car will be old and rusted in 10 years. Religion can offer you infinite years of enjoyment, for one low, low price.

Like the snake oil salesmen, there's no need to provide any proof that their product is offering anything real. And with thousands of flavors to choose form that make different claims, it's a good thing for them that they don't need to prove their claims, since it's clear that not all of them can possibly be true.

When you start from a basis like that, it's not likely to get better. Religion is used to keep bad people in power, to discourage people from using condoms and to contract STDs instead, and to prevent the police from arresting pedophiles.

Most of the religious people are religious out of fear. Very few are religious because they are spiritual seekers.

So not all religious people achieve or even strive for spiritual uplift-meant.

 

[a-TB]

Mr Prasad: Your posts in this thread are fun to read. They are on the mark. I could not help laughing at the pictures provided hahaha - that crocodile is cute too

The article referenced in post 1 is hard to read - fellow rambles on and on . He is confused inviting more of the confused to join.

Some responses here make me think of the 'fox and the grapes story'

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Prasad,

You have to be clear about the differences in the objective that religion and businesses strive to achieve. Whereas the former is for self improvement of the people the latter is for the self improvement of the businesses. No doubt then, the businesses have to sell their products hard and back it up with enough evidence.

If you are not following what the religion really says which is the real focus of your mind should be something that will endure, you are the one who is going to lose. The fact that the religions have become commercialized is because of the materialistic times we are in. It doesn't in any way take away the central noble goals of religion which is one of inculcating values in a person.

 

[prasad1]

Mr Prasad: Your posts in this thread are fun to read. They are on the mark. I could not help laughing at the pictures provided hahaha - that crocodile is cute too

The article referenced in post 1 is hard to read - fellow rambles on and on . He is confused inviting more of the confused to join.

Some responses here make me think of the 'fox and the grapes story'

Thank you

 

[prasad1]

Dear Shri Prasad,

You have to be clear about the differences in the objective that religion and businesses strive to achieve. Whereas the former is for self improvement of the people the latter is for the self improvement of the businesses. No doubt then, the businesses have to sell their products hard and back it up with enough evidence.

If you are not following what the religion really says which is the real focus of your mind should be something that will endure, you are the one who is going to lose. The fact that the religions have become commercialized is because of the materialistic times we are in. It doesn't in any way take away the central noble goals of religion which is one of inculcating values in a person.

All the religious leaders, swamijis, and Guruji preach that you must not hanker after the material wealth, but all of them live luxurious life style, and Crore of rupees. Lot of real estate and opulent life style. It is the poor and fool who shower these false gurus with their hard earned money.
The smart Gurus convince these poor to accept their poverty, and the suckers lap it up.

 

[sravna]

Why don't you consider the right examples such as Adi Sankara, Ramanuja, Vivekananda and so many others? People listened to them and most likely felt uplifted. Their infleunce is still there but fast waning. The society did not change for good hearing their messages. It can't because spiritual upliftment is a personal experience. You have to keep sending the message all the time though according to the times. As I said it is our acute material times that is the culprit for sprouting fake gurujis and their insincere intent and also the waning of the influence of real spiritual leaders. Do not blame the religion please.

 

[Vaagmi]

All the religious leaders, swamijis, and Guruji preach that you must not hanker after the material wealth, but all of them live luxurious life style, and Crore of rupees. Lot of real estate and opulent life style. It is the poor and fool who shower these false gurus with their hard earned money.
The smart Gurus convince these poor to accept their poverty, and the suckers lap it up.

Dear Mr. Prasad,

There are valid counter points to your arguments. Only you have made up your mind and so will not even look at them. LOL.

 

[sangom]

I think the US with its culture, has proved itself very superior to Indian culture. Indian culture has made this a country of poverty, hunger, starvation, diseases and stagnation, whereas the us culture has made that country the strongest and most prosperous in the world. Our people are migrating to US in hordes because they dream of a better life. What have we to offer these people and to dissuade them from migrating? Nothing absolutely!
so, let us allow our people to migrate and lead their lives as best suits each one of them. Let us not start preaching. After all US Dollar has neither indian culture nor hindu culture.

This "preaching" business, i think, started with Vivekananda. Let us not continue the same!

 

[krish44]

Vganeji has posted a thread on sustainable development.

It says the following is desirable for human beings to lead a good life

he lists good health,quality education,gender equality, clean water,sanitation,renewable energy,good jobs, growth, innovations, infrastructure, consumption,climate

action, peace and justice,, less poverty and hunger, as indices to look for.

US is far ahead of india in all these parameters.

It would be stupid to expect the US indians to give up on these to return to india. It has nothing much to offer them.

 

[sravna]

The point of contention is whether the western yardstick of measuring standard of life correct or not? Let me talk about two hypothetical individuals C and D. C thinks only of self, is a billionaire, has unchecked desires . D thinks of others too, is capable of taking care of his needs and his family's needs, doesn't cross the limits when it comes to desires.

Let me take a vote and the rationale behind it .Which one of the above thinking models would you want to side with?

 

[renuka]

I wonder why there is so much anxiety that Hindu Dharma is on the decline in the USA.

Don't Hindus have confidence to be Hindus wherever they are?

Why so much fear?

I feel the fear is not really about religion but its about losing caste identity and caste related cultural practice.

 

[sravna]

I wonder why there is so much anxiety that Hindu Dharma is on the decline in the USA.

Don't Hindus have confidence to be Hindus wherever they are?

Why so much fear?

I feel the fear is not really about religion but its about losing caste identity and caste related cultural practice.

No Renuka, there is no fear, it is only a concern. As I mentioned in one of my other threads, I almost have a convincing theory with empirical proof on things about spirituality.These are part of Hinduism and I am sure in general it is the essence of what religions say about God.

It will take me a month or so to publish the material.

 

[prasad1]

I think the US with its culture, has proved itself very superior to Indian culture. Indian culture has made this a country of poverty, hunger, starvation, diseases and stagnation, whereas the us culture has made that country the strongest and most prosperous in the world. Our people are migrating to US in hordes because they dream of a better life. What have we to offer these people and to dissuade them from migrating? Nothing absolutely!
so, let us allow our people to migrate and lead their lives as best suits each one of them. Let us not start preaching. After all US Dollar has neither indian culture nor hindu culture.

This "preaching" business, i think, started with Vivekananda. Let us not continue the same!

You are right. India and Indians have their problems and challenges, and at the same time they have their own achievements and success. So do other countries. Let us not compare them to claim glory.
We can prosper in any situation, country of residence is one such situation.

 

[prasad1]

The point of contention is whether the western yardstick of measuring standard of life correct or not? Let me talk about two hypothetical individuals C and D. C thinks only of self, is a billionaire, has unchecked desires . D thinks of others too, is capable of taking care of his needs and his family's needs, doesn't cross the limits when it comes to desires.

Let me take a vote and the rationale behind it .Which one of the above thinking models would you want to side with?

That itself is wrong question. I would like to be a billionaire like Warren Buffet or Bill Gates. They are both C&D combined.

 

[prasad1]

No Renuka, there is no fear, it is only a concern. As I mentioned in one of my other threads, I almost have a convincing theory with empirical proof on things about spirituality.These are part of Hinduism and I am sure in general it is the essence of what religions say about God.

It will take me a month or so to publish the material.

You can take a lifetime and still come out with wrong conclusions if you start with wrong assumptions.

 

[sravna]

You can take a lifetime and still come out with wrong conclusions if you start with wrong assumptions.

Dear Shri Prasad,

Let the journal decide that.

 

[sravna]

That itself is wrong question. I would like to be a billionaire like Warren Buffet or Bill Gates. They are both C&D combined.

Ok I agree. I thought it would be intuitive. Let me clarify. C wants money for money sake unlike D who just caters to his real needs.

 

[sangom]

The point of contention is whether the western yardstick of measuring standard of life correct or not? Let me talk about two hypothetical individuals C and D. C thinks only of self, is a billionaire, has unchecked desires . D thinks of others too, is capable of taking care of his needs and his family's needs, doesn't cross the limits when it comes to desires.

Let me take a vote and the rationale behind it .Which one of the above thinking models would you want to side with?

Dear Shri Sravna,

There is no point in your comparison, I feel. If D has to be "capable of taking care of his needs and his family's needs", first of all his country should enable him (D) to earn enough and also provide the necessary goods and services which will satisfy his needs. Can we honestly claim this to be true in the case of India?

Further, D "thinking of others too" does not make much sense; what is the use of mere thinking?

Let us at least be honest enough to admit that India's culture has not taken it anywhere and has only resulted in an impoverished country which has lot of human work force to export. Let us do that and be happy that at least some people get a better future. Is not that the minimum intellectual honesty we can show?

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Sravna,

There is no point in your comparison, I feel. If D has to be "capable of taking care of his needs and his family's needs", first of all his country should enable him (D) to earn enough and also provide the necessary goods and services which will satisfy his needs. Can we honestly claim this to be true in the case of India?

Further, D "thinking of others too" does not make much sense; what is the use of mere thinking?

Let us at least be honest enough to admit that India's culture has not taken it anywhere and has only resulted in an impoverished country which has lot of human work force to export. Let us do that and be happy that at least some people get a better future. Is not that the minimum intellectual honesty we can show?

Dear Shri Sangom,

First of all I disagree that we should be happy that only some people get a better future. I agree that the case of D does not represent the present scenario but I believe that should be the scenario. What we need to do is to awaken the country to a new perspective that in which your thinking does not harm others or try to hurt others and be of good to others. This is the mindset I wanted to portray in D.

I believe that there are two basic routes to success. One is thinking only of self and ruthlessly though cleverly crushing everything else. The other is try to embrace everyone and think of the common good. For the former to happen you have to be intelligent and keep meticulously planning. In the latter you have to be just yourself and be spontaneous. But for it to happen you have to undergo introspection and rigorous practice. But believe me, it will yield fantastic fruits.

I have an agenda in this regard. As I said I would like to lend an air of credibility to spirituality in my own small way by making it scientifically acceptable. I plan to present a paper in this regard. Already I have been helping people with their health and other problems and I do it free of cost. By this I make them aware that there is something beyond the physical and everyone can feel it or at least feel good if they practice certain values.

I plan to start a course on thinking which is more a way to rid people of the shackles they are in and be spontaneous thinkers.

I have interests in making a link between spiritual knowledge and Science which in fact is the subject matter of the paper I was talking about. I think Science can immensely benefit from spiritual knowledge such as the vedas and will be able to describe reality more truly if such knowledge is used.

This is what I think I can do. There is a growing awakening among Indians that there is latent potential in the country which can be unleashed to make India reach its former glory. This is eminently possible and is the second route to success I talked about . Though it is longer and needs more discipline, is a lot more enduring.

 

[prasad1]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...s-nyc-farewell-heads-excited-philly/72870446/
Sravnaji,
You assume that you alone or India alone has the solution to the sufferings of the world. Just look around you and you will know that others are doing something about it. They may not be Hindus, or may even be atheist.

[h=1]Pope Francis to Congress and millionaires: Spread the wealth[/h]
United Nations where Francis became the fifth pope to address the UN General Assembly. He once again championed the environment and the downtrodden, saying the poor suffer most from the misuse of natural resources.He also did not shy away from criticizing capitalism, saying that it contributes to society’s ills and that the consequences of “irresponsible mismanagement of the global economy must be cause for reflection.”
Father Russo tells Yahoo Finance that the pope’s message on the economy has been received well. “
He says the takeaway for lawmakers and the business world is to “get more engaged with the larger community.”
For those who say he’s out of touch with the economy, Father Russo says that the Pope isn’t telling individuals who wish to succeed not to. “Obviously he’s a pope who wants to make sure that those people who have the opportunities are also giving back.”

 

[sravna]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...s-nyc-farewell-heads-excited-philly/72870446/
Sravnaji,
You assume that you alone or India alone has the solution to the sufferings of the world. Just look around you and you will know that others are doing something about it. They may not be Hindus, or may even be atheist.

Pope Francis to Congress and millionaires: Spread the wealth


United Nations where Francis became the fifth pope to address the UN General Assembly. He once again championed the environment and the downtrodden, saying the poor suffer most from the misuse of natural resources.He also did not shy away from criticizing capitalism, saying that it contributes to society’s ills and that the consequences of “irresponsible mismanagement of the global economy must be cause for reflection.”
Father Russo tells Yahoo Finance that the pope’s message on the economy has been received well. “
He says the takeaway for lawmakers and the business world is to “get more engaged with the larger community.”
For those who say he’s out of touch with the economy, Father Russo says that the Pope isn’t telling individuals who wish to succeed not to. “Obviously he’s a pope who wants to make sure that those people who have the opportunities are also giving back.”

Definitely not PrasadJi. What I am doing is only a minuscule effort compared what many others are doing. But I wanted to emphasize that India also has something to offer which many don't seem to recognise.

 

[renuka]

Dear Shri Sangom,

First of all I disagree that we should be happy that only some people get a better future. I agree that the case of D does not represent the present scenario but I believe that should be the scenario. What we need to do is to awaken the country to a new perspective that in which your thinking does not harm others or try to hurt others and be of good to others. This is the mindset I wanted to portray in D.

I believe that there are two basic routes to success. One is thinking only of self and ruthlessly though cleverly crushing everything else. The other is try to embrace everyone and think of the common good. For the former to happen you have to be intelligent and keep meticulously planning. In the latter you have to be just yourself and be spontaneous. But for it to happen you have to undergo introspection and rigorous practice. But believe me, it will yield fantastic fruits.

I have an agenda in this regard. As I said I would like to lend an air of credibility to spirituality in my own small way by making it scientifically acceptable. I plan to present a paper in this regard. Already I have been helping people with their health and other problems and I do it free of cost. By this I make them aware that there is something beyond the physical and everyone can feel it or at least feel good if they practice certain values.

I plan to start a course on thinking which is more a way to rid people of the shackles they are in and be spontaneous thinkers.

I have interests in making a link between spiritual knowledge and Science which in fact is the subject matter of the paper I was talking about. I think Science can immensely benefit from spiritual knowledge such as the vedas and will be able to describe reality more truly if such knowledge is used.

This is what I think I can do. There is a growing awakening among Indians that there is latent potential in the country which can be unleashed to make India reach its former glory. This is eminently possible and is the second route to success I talked about . Though it is longer and needs more discipline, is a lot more enduring.

Dear Sravna,

Even though I do appreciate your good intentions but the best is to accept the fact that we should NOT influence the mind of others even for a good reason.

Each mind has its own 'growth percentile" and we should not interfere with the minds of normal people with our thinking which we presume is spiced with spiritual ability.

This would be a great disservice to mankind to influence the minds of others.

Its not that I do not acknowledge the ability of others but even the best of the best let the mind of others bloom the way best known to them.

Each person has his/her own journey....its not wise to train others to align their thoughts with our theories.

As a doctor I myself feel the field of psychiatry puts a lot of pressure on people to be "normal' and start them off on medications too soon.

May be people with psychiatric problems should not be pressurized to be normal too soon..the human body has a balancing mechanism that eventually stabilizes our mind and body..the process might take time and needs observation and follow up..if we learn to accept that NORMAL is not the only one way in life..most problems can be faced.

Likewise why even think of starting a course of thinking to teach people how to think?

I do not think its fair as we do not have the right to make others into clones of our mind.

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

I was only talking of making original and spontaneous thinkers as I think many of us are conditioned in many ways which obstructs original thinking.