Sastrigals not following ethics or taditions

[rajshyam]

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I lost my father last year and we brothers performed all rituals perfectly. We were all very much satisfied with the pundits at Chennai who conducted the rituals up to 13 th day and pundits from Madurai who conducted varushabthikam rituals at my elder brother's place near Madurai.

This Thai Ammavasai was the first time for us to do tharpana for the first time. We contacted the house pundit and he arranged a third person to conduct the Tharpanam.

He told us to be ready by 7:30 AMHe came to my house and conducted the tharapanam as fast as possible. We asked about brahma yagnam. He asked if we did maadhyaannikam. we told how we can do maadyaannikam before atleast 11 AM. The he told that without maadhyaannikam we can not do brahma yagnam.

We understood that tharapanam itself is to done after Maadhyaannikam.

The pundit should have accepted to do it around 11 Am and should have told us to be ready after finishing Maadhyaannikam.
We feel he was crazy for money and earn as much money as possible before 12 noon (or even after that)
We decided that here after not to engage sastrigal and do it with the help of CDs and books available for tharpanam and other rituals which takes less time. Instead of giving Dhaksina to such pundits we can do some charity,

 

[krish44]

Times are hard .Everyone wants to optimise on earnings and make a fast buck ethics be damned. I have a distaste for rituals and the tribe called sastrigals. good you have shown them the door. charity is definitely a better option I have switched to long time back

 

[Vaagmi]

If mAdhyAnnikam is to be done strictly as per shastra you have to do it when the sun is exactly above your head neither a little east nor a little west. If you are not employed for your living and has enough assets to live out of it, then you can take all the rules of shastras strictly and follow them in letter. But the majority of the grihastas are not people who can do that. Many have to finish the prAta sandhya as well as the mAdhyAnnikam together at 7 in the morning and get ready to leave the wife at the railway station, child at the school and then rush to his work. So there is no use finding fault with a Sastrigal whose clientele is made of majority of grihastas who rush to office. He has to make adjustments to fulfill and match the requirements of his clientele. The point to note is that our dharma sastras anticipated such a possibility and have provided a prayaschittam for every adjustment that is made. Sastrigal is also a human being who is required to feed his family from whatever income he gets. If he were in the same position as you are he would not have come for that profession and you would have gone without a sastrigal.

My take on such matters is that, adjust as much as you can and yet do not give up time tested values and traditions. Try to show understanding to others without adopting a holier than thou attitude. If you are in Arunachal pradesh and have no sastrigal do your rituals with the help of instructive CDs and deposit the dakshina in a hundi to be delivered to your family purohit when you come down to your home town/village. Charity is a different cup of tea. It can not be a substitute for supporting the institution of purohitam.

Taking this piece of advice or leaving it is your right. I have no complaints.

 

[krish44]

vaagmi ji
charity is not a a substitue for prohitam . charity is replacement for prayaschittam for not performing the rituals prescribed. sastrigals -Ican appreciate their need for quick buck. But I would prefer them to play the stock market to make easy money instead of fleecing the genuine middle class asthikas wanting to perform a ritual at appropriate time. it makes people lose faith in rituals

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Times are hard .Everyone wants to optimise on earnings and make a fast buck ethics be damned. I have a distaste for rituals and the tribe called sastrigals. good you have shown them the door. charity is definitely a better option I have switched to long time back

I don't know you are a Brahming or not. But I think you have catagorized Brahmin community; of which Sastrigal becomes a tribe as per your statement. Though I don't belong to Sastrigal tribe and a white collar Brahmin, it is unfortunate spending few hundred rupees or less happens to be wasteful expenditure for learned persons like you.

All Brahmins, irrespective of various sects, are supposed to become Prohit jobs one way or other. Conveniently we have changed it to suit our needs. What a pity.

It is extremely distressing to note Brahmin community slowly and steadily becomes a self-centered community.

Whenever occasion comes, I used to help them reasonably.

 

[krish44]

I don't know you are a Brahming or not. But I think you have catagorized Brahmin community; of which Sastrigal becomes a tribe as per your statement. Though I don't belong to Sastrigal tribe and a white collar Brahmin, it is unfortunate spending few hundred rupees or less happens to be wasteful expenditure for learned persons like you.

All Brahmins, irrespective of various sects, are supposed to become Prohit jobs one way or other. Conveniently we have changed it to suit our needs. What a pity.

It is extremely distressing to note Brahmin community slowly and steadily becomes a self-centered community.

Whenever occasion comes, I used to help them reasonably.

Chandru ji
I was born a brahmin and I do not know whether I qualify to be a Brahmin by my actions. In my fathers time We had a Vadhyar association in delhi to which a monthly fee was paid A vadhyar allocated to my family served us for nearly forty years visiting at least once a month and performing all the rituals prescribed at a fixed fee set by their association. but this system broke down in late sixties and early seventies. Now it is free for all . Vadhyar set their own terms and are not punctual and do not serve the community with dedication. so most have given up on them
even temples to whom you donate a lumpsum to perform yearly archanai for the dead relatives behave callously and you have to foillow up and remind and coax them to do the needful on the relevant day. hence my disgust and disdain for anything related to rituals.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Chandru ji
I was born a brahmin and I do not know whether I qualify to be a Brahmin by my actions. In my fathers time We had a Vadhyar association in delhi to which a monthly fee was paid A vadhyar allocated to my family served us for nearly forty years visiting at least once a month and performing all the rituals prescribed at a fixed fee set by their association. but this system broke down in late sixties and early seventies. Now it is free for all . Vadhyar set their own terms and are not punctual and do not serve the community with dedication. so most have given up on them
even temples to whom you donate a lumpsum to perform yearly archanai for the dead relatives behave callously and you have to foillow up and remind and coax them to do the needful on the relevant day. hence my disgust and disdain for anything related to rituals.

In Tamil Nadu, the Iyer families generally have 'ATHU SASTRIGAL', as I have one. In the case of Iyengars, I don't know. I used to inform my Athu Sastrigal, who, in turn, either performs the rituals himself or deputes another person.

In Iyer community, Sastrigals are more compared to Vadhyars in Iyengars.

My Athu Sastrigal never sets any terms and conditions and some times with slight deviation.

Punctuality cannot be expected since one Sastrigal has to look after several persons in a single day for his livelihood. I would like to know who is maintaining punctuality, let alone Sastrigal, especially in Chennai with so much of traffic disruptions.

I don't want to comment about Iyengars.

But Iyers certainly must help Sastrigals tribe (?) generously whenever situation arises. Majority of the Sastrigals, I think, are not well off. They are badly in need of help.

 

[sangom]

AFAIK, "Brahmayajanam" is a nithya karma for all brAhmaNas and not to be performed only on pitru tarpanam days.

The probability is that rajshyam and/or his brothers may not be performing Brahmayajnam daily, but having got the vaadhyaar home to start the pitru tarpanam on Thai Amaavaasai day, thought of asking the vaadhyar to teach them perform Brahmayajnam as கொசுறு! That was a wrong demand. I will not blame the vaadhyaar at all. Pitru Tarpanam done early morning (which is the norm today) will invite the displeasure of devas and completely decimate the family lineage itself so that there is neither pitru nor anyone to perform Tarpanam. May be that is why already we are discussing about extinction of Tabras!

 

[Brahmanyan]

In Tamil Nadu, the Iyer families generally have 'ATHU SASTRIGAL', as I have one. In the case of Iyengars, I don't know. I used to inform my Athu Sastrigal, who, in turn, either performs the rituals himself or deputes another person.
In Iyer community, Sastrigals are more compared to Vadhyars in Iyengars.
My Athu Sastrigal never sets any terms and conditions and some times with slight deviation.
Punctuality cannot be expected since one Sastrigal has to look after several persons in a single day for his livelihood. I would like to know who is maintaining punctuality, let alone Sastrigal, especially in Chennai with so much of traffic disruptions.
I don't want to comment about Iyengars.
But Iyers certainly must help Sastrigals tribe (?) generously whenever situation arises. Majority of the Sastrigals, I think, are not well off. They are badly in need of help.

Dear Sri Chandru,

Your post has rekindled my memories of our Athu Sasthrigal Brahmasri Ramaswami Vadhyar at Coimbatore. He was a widower with two sons. Soft spoken person. He used to get into problems with my father every Amavasya day for not keeping with the time. Poor man he had to adjust his timings with other clients who kept him waiting. Apart from these, he had to manage commuting on his rickety old cycle. He had to putup with all these for earning his Four /Eight Annas each from his clients. He was a soft spoken person. Very helpful as well.. On festival days he used to help my mother in cooking also. He had his vedic schooling in a village patasala in Palghat area. He performed Vedic rites for the marriages in our family.His sons got good jobs and took him to Delhi to live with them during his old age.

When I migrated to Bangalore Brahmasri Harihara Vadhyaar became our family Vadhyaar. He is a strict disciplinarian. He is now 90 plus years old, living with his son at Hosur. When I met him last year I was glad to see him having good memory and tolerably normal health.

Well, I fully agree that we should help our learned community Vadhyaars, monetarily or otherwise. Similarly we should give generously to the Temple priests (most of them are poor) who serve at the feet of Lord. I need not tell that money's value goesup when we spend for a good cause.

Well, I am not qualified to discuss whether the Vadhaars are doing their duty correctly or not. Honestly except for being born into a Brahmin family, I do not qualify in any other way to be a Brahmin as defined in Sastras. But I try to be a good human being. As I used to tell "when there is conflict between my head and heart my heart wins".

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Dear Sri Chandru,

Well, I am not qualified to discuss whether the Vadhaars are doing their duty correctly or not. Honestly except for being born into a Brahmin family, I do not qualify in any other way to be a Brahmin as defined in Sastras. But I try to be a good human being. As I used to tell "when there is conflict between my head and heart my heart wins".

Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

Dear Sir,

I agree that we are no qualified to question the duty conscious of Sastrigals.

How many Blue and White Collar Brahmins have such tendency. We should not throw stones sitting in a glass house.

To avoid helping this poor lot, we have a very convenient route i.e. duty, discipline, charity every thing. One who preaches should practice.

At least, Iyers must take it a duty to help Sastrigal, Temple Priests as far as possible.

 

[mkrishna100]

I concur with what Sri Vaagmi has written in his post #3 .

 

[tks]

I lost my father last year and we brothers performed all rituals perfectly. We were all very much satisfied with the pundits at Chennai who conducted the rituals up to 13 th day and pundits from Madurai who conducted varushabthikam rituals at my elder brother's place near Madurai.

This Thai Ammavasai was the first time for us to do tharpana for the first time. We contacted the house pundit and he arranged a third person to conduct the Tharpanam.

He told us to be ready by 7:30 AMHe came to my house and conducted the tharapanam as fast as possible. We asked about brahma yagnam. He asked if we did maadhyaannikam. we told how we can do maadyaannikam before atleast 11 AM. The he told that without maadhyaannikam we can not do brahma yagnam.

We understood that tharapanam itself is to done after Maadhyaannikam.

The pundit should have accepted to do it around 11 Am and should have told us to be ready after finishing Maadhyaannikam.
We feel he was crazy for money and earn as much money as possible before 12 noon (or even after that)
We decided that here after not to engage sastrigal and do it with the help of CDs and books available for tharpanam and other rituals which takes less time. Instead of giving Dhaksina to such pundits we can do some charity,

Sri Rajshyam

Losing one's parent is a huge loss and understandably you want to show your affection by doing the prescribed duties without fault.

My suggestion is as follows -

Let me provide rationale first for what my suggestion is:

Many of our rituals and rules are codification of higher principles which most people are not exposed to. Without knowing the intent of the rules most of us have nothing to fall back except to strictly follow the rules. Here due to circumstances of modern living one may not be able to executes the rules as prescribed. If one is orthodox and have no clue as to the underlying significance then breaking a rule due to modern day contradictions may make one feel guilty. In addition there are many aspects to a ritual that are extensions and spin forgetting the original intent of the rules.

Therefore I would advise against orthodoxy but embrace instead a will to follow the tradition. Over time you may want to learn more by any avenue available to understand the significance. Even if you do not find out all those details the key is to discharge the rituals with total sincerity the way a Sastrigal tells you without blaming the person.

The reason is that you are the doer and not the Sastrigal and only your sincerity counts and not his.

When you know the intent of the rules it is easier to plan the event better..

In any case approaching everyone with good will and doing your best with sincerity is the best way you can show your affection to your father in my view...

Charity in my book is a bad word - but if you do get opportunity to help others unconditionally and with humility and respect thinking that the poor person (or organization) on the other side is actually a form of Sri Narayana (or your Ishta Devatha) then your effort will give you a sense of peace...

 

[venkat2206]

If mAdhyAnnikam is to be done strictly as per shastra you have to do it when the sun is exactly above your head neither a little east nor a little west. If you are not employed for your living and has enough assets to live out of it, then you can take all the rules of shastras strictly and follow them in letter. But the majority of the grihastas are not people who can do that. Many have to finish the prAta sandhya as well as the mAdhyAnnikam together at 7 in the morning and get ready to leave the wife at the railway station, child at the school and then rush to his work. So there is no use finding fault with a Sastrigal whose clientele is made of majority of grihastas who rush to office. He has to make adjustments to fulfill and match the requirements of his clientele. The point to note is that our dharma sastras anticipated such a possibility and have provided a prayaschittam for every adjustment that is made. Sastrigal is also a human being who is required to feed his family from whatever income he gets. If he were in the same position as you are he would not have come for that profession and you would have gone without a sastrigal.

My take on such matters is that, adjust as much as you can and yet do not give up time tested values and traditions. Try to show understanding to others without adopting a holier than thou attitude. If you are in Arunachal pradesh and have no sastrigal do your rituals with the help of instructive CDs and deposit the dakshina in a hundi to be delivered to your family purohit when you come down to your home town/village. Charity is a different cup of tea. It can not be a substitute for supporting the institution of purohitam.

Taking this piece of advice or leaving it is your right. I have no complaints.

Excellent conclusion - certainly a piece of advice worth taking.

Thanks & Regards

Venkat K

 

[wrongan]

Your tap leaks you call a plumber .He agrees to set it right before you leave for your office.You estimate the repairs would cost you less than Rs.100/ Alas the plumber turns at 12.00 noon.He charges Rs.250/ you promptly waited for him and paid him the amount.Now when it is sastrigal your reaction is different.Judge where lies the fault.

 

[kunjuppu]

Your tap leaks you call a plumber .He agrees to set it right before you leave for your office.You estimate the repairs would cost you less than Rs.100/ Alas the plumber turns at 12.00 noon.He charges Rs.250/ you promptly waited for him and paid him the amount.Now when it is sastrigal your reaction is different.Judge where lies the fault.

we tambrams tend to be cheap when it comes to paying the vaideehas. it has been my experience to witness this all my life. i remember when i was young, attending weddings, where the girl's father used to pay tens of thousands (at that time) for mandapam, but would cringe at paying additional 50 ruppees (yes 50!) to the priest. i used to be so disgusted!!

now a days, if the priests are charging 'too much', good for them. justice done atlast.

 

[kunjuppu]

Chandru ji
I was born a brahmin and I do not know whether I qualify to be a Brahmin by my actions. In my fathers time We had a Vadhyar association in delhi to which a monthly fee was paid A vadhyar allocated to my family served us for nearly forty years visiting at least once a month and performing all the rituals prescribed at a fixed fee set by their association. but this system broke down in late sixties and early seventies. Now it is free for all . Vadhyar set their own terms and are not punctual and do not serve the community with dedication. so most have given up on them
even temples to whom you donate a lumpsum to perform yearly archanai for the dead relatives behave callously and you have to foillow up and remind and coax them to do the needful on the relevant day. hence my disgust and disdain for anything related to rituals.

these priests may behave callously, because, they are sick and tired of having clientele, who are cheap, and who put minimum value on their services. just compare this, with the money demanded and got, in the churches. or the mosques, where it is mandatory to give 10% of income.

 

[tks]

these priests may behave callously, because, they are sick and tired of having clientele, who are cheap, and who put minimum value on their services. just compare this, with the money demanded and got, in the churches. or the mosques, where it is mandatory to give 10% of income.

By the way from what I remember the Vadhyar association in Delhi used to charge just Rs One per month and for that they will stop to give dates, give poonal etc. No one wants to be in that profession and those that thrive do not want to deal with cheap TB families who demand a lot from them but do not want to pay.

There are many Sastrigals in USA not associated with any temple. Some who have natural leadership skills survive well and those that do not have that struggle. Many times someone will make an appointment and cancel at the last minute. Some of them have become smarter.

They know that some of the Gujarathi business families are willing to pay for regular poojas. Some of them are more generous. One fellow was starting a new business resting on the success of a major transaction. One of the very enterprising Sastrigal who has limited English skills but (studied in Veda Patashala etc for 10 years) told this business fellow to undertake some daily pooja/homam. The Sastrigal told the business guy that he will make every effort to 'speak' to Lord Ganesha by doing all these Poojas and not to worry & proceed with confidence!

When the business succeeded that fellow showered him money and even gave the Sastrigal some stock options

These Sastrigal try to stay away from calculating and cheap TB families.. There are many generous TB families also and they tend to serve them better.

 

[kunjuppu]

tks,

the vathiars of toronto are two fold enterprising. those that came from srilanka, have caputered clienteles who focus of puppunitha neerattu vizhas thaipoosams and tamil festivals, and do not even bother with tambrams. one of ours died, and our own vathiars were so busy, that we got a srilankan vathiar, who more or less, intoned all the prayers in tamil, with sanskrit thrown in.

then there are others from tamil nadu who have started their own temples. only part of their income comes from tambrams. the rest from temples which also serve as srilankan community centres, concert halls etc all of which produce rental incomes.

private temples. owned and operated by vathiars. only in toronto, they say!!

the earliest, name unsaid, sponsored by the ganesa temple, originally tambram but now srilankan, developed relationship with tambram families, went private, has minimum fixed rates, flies all over canada, has a house paid off, 2 vans, wife runs a restaurant business and makes murukku on the side. weller off than me

another one, sponsored by the same temple, left our temple, joined the west indian ram mandir, where he got R-E-S-P-E-C-T, more money and into trouble (after sexually assaulting one of his more forward devotee fans) and is now in jail

the ganesa and the sringeri temple (now the defacto tambram temple) screen vathiars carefully in india, pick only unenterprising ammanjis, who will not scoot off when they get their residency status. and also, for some positions, get only 2 year visas and pack them off to india (middle aged guys who have a daughter to be married off, i guess).

i dont know how far it is true..but the rumour is that a wedding will cost around $2,000 and funeral $1,000, ganapathi homan $500 and such. all plus airfare if you live in boondocks canada not bad eh!

 

[prasad1]

Mr. K,
Wedding will cost around $2,000 and funeral $1,000, ganapathi homan $500 and such.
The rates are in line in USA plus travel cost.
Our temple priest makes about $50,000.00 in salary + $50,000.00 in reported income (I do advice him on Taxes) + Cash.

 

[krish44]

Mr. K,
Wedding will cost around $2,000 and funeral $1,000, ganapathi homan $500 and such.
The rates are in line in USA plus travel cost.
Our temple priest makes about $50,000.00 in salary + $50,000.00 in reported income (I do advice him on Taxes) + Cash.

delhi is fast catching up . it is 35-40 K rs per wedding ,30-35 krs per funeral and not turning up for lesser functions. iyengars vadhyars are at a premium and have to be booked in advance 4-8 weeks for a wedding . iyers sastrigals offer slightly discounted rates. better have north indian ones for funerals as south indians are not easily available on the day of funeral due to their prior commitments.pl do not shed tears for them. many have vehicles and flats. their children are executives in MNCs

 

[V.Balasubramani]

. many have vehicles and flats. their children are executives in MNCs

Krish ji,

One should really feel proud for this. Let them also grow rich.

In my case, when my family Sastrigal was busy on the other day, he deputed one of his deputies who came in an Avenger Motor cycle and was found using a Smart Phone. I only felt proud about this.

There are lawyers in Chennai practicing at Supreme Court claiming several lakhs towards fee for a case, yet one can still find few lawyers at Egmore Court pleading with clients for few hundreds.

Life is like that .


Cheers

 

[tks]

tks,

the vathiars of toronto are two fold enterprising. those that came from srilanka, have caputered clienteles who focus of puppunitha neerattu vizhas thaipoosams and tamil festivals, and do not even bother with tambrams. one of ours died, and our own vathiars were so busy, that we got a srilankan vathiar, who more or less, intoned all the prayers in tamil, with sanskrit thrown in.

then there are others from tamil nadu who have started their own temples. only part of their income comes from tambrams. the rest from temples which also serve as srilankan community centres, concert halls etc all of which produce rental incomes.

private temples. owned and operated by vathiars. only in toronto, they say!!

the earliest, name unsaid, sponsored by the ganesa temple, originally tambram but now srilankan, developed relationship with tambram families, went private, has minimum fixed rates, flies all over canada, has a house paid off, 2 vans, wife runs a restaurant business and makes murukku on the side. weller off than me

another one, sponsored by the same temple, left our temple, joined the west indian ram mandir, where he got R-E-S-P-E-C-T, more money and into trouble (after sexually assaulting one of his more forward devotee fans) and is now in jail

the ganesa and the sringeri temple (now the defacto tambram temple) screen vathiars carefully in india, pick only unenterprising ammanjis, who will not scoot off when they get their residency status. and also, for some positions, get only 2 year visas and pack them off to india (middle aged guys who have a daughter to be married off, i guess).

i dont know how far it is true..but the rumour is that a wedding will cost around $2,000 and funeral $1,000, ganapathi homan $500 and such. all plus airfare if you live in boondocks canada not bad eh!

And these guys rarely pay taxes .. these are tax free income

K - Interesting episodes indeed I have one more

Some years ago one Vadhyar wanted my help to negotiate purchase of a nice car - he travels all around and it was one of the early purchase as he was establishing himself. I had prior research on exactly what the model cost the dealer, advertising cost, so called dealer hold back etc ...

My Vaddhyar had come with his wife and was frequently interjecting 'God will bless you etc' and in broken English told the sales guy that he visits over 100 homes and that he will put in a good name to all those people for the sales guy and as a bonus provide blessings from an Indian God... That fellow took a liking to this guy... Finally there was this part about paying down payment. His wife opened her purse and started giving over $1500 in bills of $1, $5 and $10 .... This sales guy was asking if this fellow is a priest or manages a strip club with all these bills coming out of the Vaddhyar's wife's purse all crumpled ...

Anyway it was hilarious - these fellows do well and are super aggressive. One thing is he did not want any of his children to become Vaddhyars ..

 

[tbs]

And these guys rarely pay taxes .. these are tax free income

K - Interesting episodes indeed I have one more

Some years ago one Vadhyar wanted my help to negotiate purchase of a nice car - he travels all around and it was one of the early purchase as he was establishing himself. I had prior research on exactly what the model cost the dealer, advertising cost, so called dealer hold back etc ...

My Vaddhyar had come with his wife and was frequently interjecting 'God will bless you etc' and in broken English told the sales guy that he visits over 100 homes and that he will put in a good name to all those people for the sales guy and as a bonus provide blessings from an Indian God... That fellow took a liking to this guy... Finally there was this part about paying down payment. His wife opened her purse and started giving over $1500 in bills of $1, $5 and $10 .... This sales guy was asking if this fellow is a priest or manages a strip club with all these bills coming out of the Vaddhyar's wife's purse all crumpled ...

Anyway it was hilarious - these fellows do well and are super aggressive. One thing is he did not want any of his children to become Vaddhyars ..

hi
we have a temple in USA...here in our town....a temple ...OWNED AND OPERATED BY PRIESTS.... they provide ritual

services with food facilities....

 

[Raji Ram]

My son has one young priest as his AsthAna sAsthrigaL. He demands only fuel charges +$ 150 and also enjoys the

home made food, after the poojA. Not very expensive. He lives in New Hampshire, about one hour drive form Boston.

 

[krish44]

Krish ji,

One should really feel proud for this. Let them also grow rich.

In my case, when my family Sastrigal was busy on the other day, he deputed one of his deputies who came in an Avenger Motor cycle and was found using a Smart Phone. I only felt proud about this.

There are lawyers in Chennai practicing at Supreme Court claiming several lakhs towards fee for a case, yet one can still find few lawyers at Egmore Court pleading with clients for few hundreds.

Life is like that .


Cheers

VBji
I find nothing wrong that vadhyar community has become upwardly mobile
they are getting paid for work and market forces are determining their renumeration.
i do not know how long their windfall will last.
at some point aasthikas may lose faith inthem and go for CD and such options as many of these neo rich vadhyars do not have work ethics and not keep up to their commitments in terms of punctuality and make themselves available when urgently required such as funerals. I had to take a north indian pandit at funeral of one of my close relatives as vadhyars found better pastures for the day and one wanted me to wait until late afternoon for conducting the funeral rights