Secularism...No Religion please...

[narayanee]

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I fully agree with your view that education is highly commercialised in Tamilnadu at all levels including schools and colleges. Politicians both at ruling and opposition control directly or indirectly these educational institutions. They exploit innocent public with high capitation fee and exorbitant tuition fee.

My point is 27% of the people in Tamilnadu are still unable to read and write. Dravidian parties after more than four decades of rule are keeping more than one fourth of the population without even school education. Why are they keeping like that? Is there any hidden agenda to keep that like that? or is it vote bank politics?

I studied under free education during schooling under congress rule. Kamaraj made school education free. Today government schools doesn't have teachers. Every village has got a liquor shop with full fledged staff and works round the clock. But village schools doesn't have teachers.

Literacy alone will help in controlling exploitation

Cinema and Liquor are the two eyes of Dravidian parties. Not education.
சினிமாவும் சாராயமும் திராவிட இயக்கத்தின் இரண்டு கண்கள்
கல்வி அறிவு புகட்டுவது அல்ல

வெங்கட்ரமணிஜி

உங்கள் கருத்துக்களுடன் சிறிது தான் மாறுபடுகிறேன்.பார்வையிலிருந்து விலகினால், சிந்தனையிலிருந்தும் விலகும் என்பார்கள்.நீங்களெல்லாம் தலைமுறை தலைமுறையாக அமெரிக்கா போன்ற தூர தேசத்தில் இருப்பதால், இன்றைய நடைமுறை உங்களுக்கு அவ்வளவு அத்துப்படி இல்லையோ என்ற ஐயம் எனக்குள் எழுகிறது.அதற்காக நான் ஒரு மேதாவி என்றெல்லாம் சொல்லிக் கொள்ளவில்லை.

ய*தார்த்த*மாக*க் கூறுகிறேன்..

நான் தி மு க*வைக் க*டுமையாக* விம*ர்சிப்ப*வ*ள்.இருந்தாலும் அவ*ர்க*ள*து அமைச்ச*ர*வையில் த*ங்க*ம் தென்ன*ர*சு என்ற* திற*மை வாய்ந்த* ஆர*ம்ப*க் க*ல்வி அமைச்ச*ர் இருக்கிறார்.க*ருணாநிதியும் அவ*ரிட*ம் ந*ல்ல* ம*திப்பை வைத்திருக்கிறார்.

இவரின் முனைப்பு, நீங்கள் எதிர்பார்க்கும் 100 விழுக்காடு அனைவருக்கும் கல்வி என்ற நிலை, விரைவிலேயே வரக் கூடும்..

காமராஜர் எல்லோருக்கும் இலவசக் கல்வி கொடுத்தார்.அதே தான் இப்போது மாநகராட்சி பள்ளிகளிலும் தொடர்கிறது.அதுவும் ச*த்துண*வுட*ன்..ஏதோ அடிக்கும் கொள்ளையில், கொஞ்ச*ம் மாண*வ*ர்க*ளுக்கும் ஏதாவ*து செய்கிறார்க*ளே!அதையும் நாம் க*வ*னிக்க* வேண்டும்.

ஆசிரியர் பற்றாக்குறை எல்லாருடைய ஆட்சியிலும் இருக்கத் தான் செய்கிறது.அதுவும் இனி எதிர்கால இந்தியாவில் சரி செய்யப்பட்டு விடும் என்றே நினைக்கிறேன்.அந்த அளவிற்கு அழுத்தம் இந்தியாவில் விழுந்து கொண்டிருப்பதை நான் உணர்கிறேன்.

என் கவலையெல்லாம், அவர்களுக்கு வேலை வாய்ப்பு அந்த அளவிற்கு கிடைக்க வேண்டுமே என்பது தான்..

40 வ*ருட*ங்க*ளாக* த*மிழ*க*த்தில் ஏதோ ஒரு க*ழ*க*ம் தான்;சாராயக் க*டைக*ள் ந*ம் க*ண்க*ளுக்குப் ப*ழ*க்க*மாகி விட்ட*ன*.இருந்தாலும், நீங்க*ள் அண்ணாந*க*ர் ப*க்க*ம் போனாலோ அல்ல*து மாநக*ராட்சி ப*ள்ளி ப*க்க*ம் போனாலோ மாண*வ*ர்க*ள் கூட்ட*ம் அலை மோதுகிற*து.

இவ்வ*ள*வு தூர*ம் வ*ந்து விட்ட* இந்தியா, இன்னும் நால*டி முன்னேற* எத்த*னை நாள் ஆக*ப் போகிற*து?

என*க்கு ந*ம்பிக்கை இருக்கிற*து.

Venkatramaniji,

There is just a wafer thin difference in our stand.There is one saying in english.."Out of sight, out of mind".Probably may be due to this, you would have not been in the know of the things that are currently evolving in Tamilnadu .I am a strong critic of DMK government. Still I used to admire Thangam Thennarasu,an efficient and able minister looking after the portfolio of primary education. He is sincere in his efforts and Karunanithi also has high opinion about him.

You are talking about Kamaraj days schooling for free; Now also it is prevalent in corporation schools and with nutritious meals;at least we must take this into cognizance -after all these politicians share their loot a little with students community.

No doubt ,for 40 years there is Dravidan rule., spiced with arrack shop..nowadays we are accustomed with that.But still if you visiti anna nagar areas schools, or corporation schools, you will be dumb stuck with overflowing students, by their numbers.

We are definitely progressing in education in India, and having come to this level, how long it is going to take to move further, as you wish?

I have confidence in this respect!

I think the day is not far away to reach 100% in education, throughout India.

 

[narayanee]

Dear Ms. Narayanee:
Referring to your comment about President Obama comparing Indian students with American students: Not so fast, Ms. Narayanee! He is only comparing the Indian students who were born/raised here in the USA; I don't believe he is talking about the Indian students in India!! Of course, the Indian/Chinese students do extremely well against the American (white) students; Indian/Chinese are the most affluent group in the USA; added to this, education is imbibed into both Asian (In the US, Asian means only Chinese/Japanese/Korean) and Indian minds................

சில்வர்பாக்ஸ்ஜி,நான் மற்ற ஆசிய நாடுகளைப் பற்றி பேச முடியாது.இந்தியாவைப் பற்றித் தான் பேச முடியும்.ஒபாமா, அமெரிக்க இந்தியர்களைப் பாராட்டினாலும், அந்த அமெரிக்க இந்தியர்களின் மூலம் எங்கே இருக்கிறது?இந்தியாவில் தானே?

அது தானே உங்களைப் போன்றோருக்கெல்லாம் அடித்தளம்.

அந்த படிக்கும் ஆர்வம், இந்தியனின் ரத்தத்தில் ஊறியது தானே?

Silverfoxji,I can not talk about other asian countries but only about India.Even if Obama appreciates Indo- american only , still, where is the root for such Indo american , like you?Is it not in India? Is it not the base? Does it not imbibe in your blood to intensify the propensity to study and to compete in America or anywhere?

 

[RVR]

நீங்களெல்லாம் தலைமுறை தலைமுறையாக அமெரிக்கா போன்ற தூர தேசத்தில் இருப்பதால், இன்றைய நடைமுறை உங்களுக்கு அவ்வளவு அத்துப்படி இல்லையோ என்ற ஐயம் எனக்குள் எழுகிறது.

I am very much in Chennai. I have spent my whole life so far within the borders of Tamilnadu alone.

All the best

 

[silverfox]

Dear Ms. Narayanee:
I agree with your view that education is imbibed in Indians' blood. But out of the billion people, how many are like that? Based on my interaction with students whenever I visit Chennai, many of them have gotten an education that is sub-par. I would say that more than 'education', getting degrees/certificates/diplomas are more important! You have to admit that the education imparted in Govt. schools (corporation schools) is very bad. This is why even a laborer tries to put his child into an English-medium school!! The Dravidian Party, while claiming to be the custodians of Tamil, send their own children to English schools with second language as Hindi!!!

சில்வர்பாக்ஸ்ஜி,நான் மற்ற ஆசிய நாடுகளைப் பற்றி பேச முடியாது.இந்தியாவைப் பற்றித் தான் பேச முடியும்.ஒபாமா, அமெரிக்க இந்தியர்களைப் பாராட்டினாலும், அந்த அமெரிக்க இந்தியர்களின் மூலம் எங்கே இருக்கிறது?இந்தியாவில் தானே?

அது தானே உங்களைப் போன்றோருக்கெல்லாம் அடித்தளம்.

அந்த படிக்கும் ஆர்வம், இந்தியனின் ரத்தத்தில் ஊறியது தானே?

Silverfoxji,I can not talk about other asian countries but only about India.Even if Obama appreciates Indo- american only , still, where is the root for such Indo american , like you?Is it not in India? Is it not the base? Does it not imbibe in your blood to intensify the propensity to study and to compete in America or anywhere?

 

[Siddhanta]

Differences between Hinduism and Secularism


Hinduism: There are three Gods the Creator, Protector and Destroyer serving their duties and other Gods and Godesses for specific purposes who protect the righteous humans.
Secularism: There is no God. Humans have the ultimate capability to do anything and achieve anything.


Hinduism: The soul is eternal, birth, death and rebirth is a continuous process. Purification of soul by following Dharma is given top priority.
Secularism: Body is like a machine, there is no soul, death is the end, enjoyment, fame and money (before death) is given top priority.


Hinduism: Karma is vital which shapes our destiny in every birth, being born in a specific caste and experiences (good or bad) in lifetime depends upon the Karma.
Secularism: There is no Karma, there is no caste system. By our constant individual efforts, we can achieve anything we want.

Hinduism: Our souls get punished for our sins.
Secularism: We get punished by the court of law, which at times may fail to do so and by escaping the law one has no worries at all forever.

Hinduism: The Vedas teach us the nature of life, Ramayana and Mahabharatha, etc the histories of humanity; all these serve as a guide to our lives.
Secularism: Vedas, Ramayana and Mahabharatha are works of FICTION. Established Science from the West is True Knowledge.

 

[venkatpasupathy]

Secularism No Religion please

Narayanee,
you are absolutely right. Only hindu religion is secular. The other religions are based on dogma. The socalled secularism practised by all political parties except perhaps BJP are not genuine secularism. The very concept of seculariosm is an alien to India.

 

[happyhindu]

Sidhhanta,

Found your post really interesting.

So far was thinking that secularism meant
1) allowing each one to follow his own religion or way of life as long as it harms no other.
2) not having only one or any one religion as the state religion.
3) making a barrier b/w state and religion; that is, giving all religions equal constitutional rights to exist, and not letting any one relgion unduly affect or influence the way the state functions.

Regards.

 

[Siddhanta]

In one sense, secularism may assert the right to be free from religious rule and teachings, and freedom from the government imposition of religion upon the people, within a state that is neutral on matters of belief, and gives no state privileges or subsidies to religions. (See also Separation of church and state and Laïcité.) In another sense, it refers to the view that human activities and decisions, especially political ones, should be based on evidence and fact unbiased by religious influence

Secularism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Secularism actually means an attitude unconnected with any religion. But if asked its meaning an Indian would invariably say that secularism means 'religious tolerance'. Why is it that this term which is enshrined in our constitution should have a popular misconception about its meaning?

Secularism - Why is India a Secular State?

Honestly i do not understand the actual meaning of Secularism. The way i see it, it says no religion and it names Hinduism as one of the Religions today.

Vedic tradition and culture has been in this soil for millions of years. The knowledge we had was far more advanced than the knowledge prevailing today. Simple example is the position of planets used in Vedic Astrology, Hinduism taught long back the structure of the universe, while the science established it after having a lot of controversies(with the idea of earth being flat and the sun going around) in the west. So it is impossible for me to see Hinduism as a Religion.

In my opinion Secularism is a term adopted from the west, coined by British writer George Jacob and it has been interpreted in many ways.

However other opinions may differ i am only expressing mine.

I was not taught the concepts of Hinduism, the nature of eternal soul, etc. Secularism is based on "established science and Knowledge is the truth". My opinion is based on my own experiences and how people whom i have interacted with so far behaved. To learn about the concepts of Hinduism, i took my own interest and studied them. It really helped me so much and i am living a peaceful life free of worries.

My parents taught me that praying to the Gods is only for our satisfaction and we are the ones who determine our future. That was the modern "secular" attitude i had before and later i learnt it was not the case.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri siddhanta Ji,

Comparing Hinduism to Scecularism is like comparing an apple to a carrot. They are not even in the same category.

One is a way of life with certain faith based philosophical tenets guiding it for the adherents to find salvation. The other, as it is applied today is a governing mechanism in the context of modern democractic ideals.

Hinduism is 'secular' only in the sense that it allows and does not interfere with the practice of other religions. But a 'Hindu state' by definition can not be secular. As the Hindu laws/customs necessarily will dominate the governance.

I think you are confusing secular governance principles with the modern science/logic based living principles adopted by various groups, including the atheists.

Regards,
KRS

 

[Siddhanta]

Comparing Hinduism to Scecularism is like comparing an apple to a carrot. They are not even in the same category.

KRS Ji,

This is a forum and i am only expressing my opinion, i already mentioned in my post. The word "secularism" itself is interpreted in so many ways. In one sense secularism means "no religions". In another sense it means "All religions are one". In another sense it means "religious tolerance". As with India and politics, Congress is really Secular, while BJP at least respects Hinduism. I am not confusing anything it is how i view it and your view differs from mine. That is what forums are for, people post their opinions. I do respect your opinion.

Thanks and Regards.

 

[RVR]

Indian political parties except very few think secularism means `anti-hindu'. Within the few parties also some leaders think secularism means anti hindu.

Anti terrorism law is required for all the citizens irrespective of religion, caste, language or race. When you want to enact such a law, why few parties oppose it on the basis of religion. Is it true secularism? Is it not the duty of the Government to have proper legislation to check terror activities.

Indian constitution declares that it is Secular but in practice, it is compromised for the sake of vote bank politics.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Siddhanta Ji,

Yes, this a Forum to express opinions. But you do not express them in vaccum. There are readers. So, if one's opinion can not be substantiated, it will be challenged.

If you look at dictionary you will find two explanations for Secularism: 1) Rejection of religion and 2) Not allowing the influence of any religion in governance.

The first definition as I have said does not at all impact the civic life. The second explanation is the one that most of the modern democracies have adopted as a principle of governance.

But sir, you have jumbled up these two explanations together and as you have admitted, you are confused.

So, for the benefit of our members, I needed to untangle your confusion. In that sense, what I have said is not an opinion, rather it is an explanation based on established definitions of Secularism.

Thank you.

Regards,
KRS

KRS Ji,

This is a forum and i am only expressing my opinion, i already mentioned in my post. The word "secularism" itself is interpreted in so many ways. In one sense secularism means "no religions". In another sense it means "All religions are one". In another sense it means "religious tolerance". As with India and politics, Congress is really Secular, while BJP at least respects Hinduism. I am not confusing anything it is how i view it and your view differs from mine. That is what forums are for, people post their opinions. I do respect your opinion.

Thanks and Regards.

 

[Siddhanta]

KRS Ji,

I admit that i am not well versed with debating though i may learn in course of time by interacting with people like you and i have debated with people online and i know i am not good at such skills.

In the case of readers too, they have their opinions, and they have free will to decide their faith, if they want to challenge them they can do it like how you have done.

My first post in this thread is based on your first definition: Rejection of religion

Then i admitted it has different meanings and the way i see it.

 

[sesh52]

Religion & secularism

According to me , religion is something to one who was born into it and raised with it. It is really possible for anyone to follow one's own religion in private and practice secularism in society.

This may be agreed by people who have lived in a cosmopolitan environment and it is possible for all strata of society except for politicians.

When public rejects religious fanatism and vote for parties who have capable people to govern , irrespective of religion, cast or socio economic differences and give preference to individuals and party, capable to provide a strong , transparent government , political parties will be forced to shun these religion and cast factor to garner votes for power.

Seshadri

 

[venkatpasupathy]

Dear Siddhanta ji,

Secularism in political sense means no religion. It is a western concept. The Indian Constitution says so. But the practice by the political parties are opposed to the idea. In India all the political parties with the exception of BJP view secularism in a different light. For them anything connected with Hinduism is communal. This assymetric view of secularism is dasngerous in governance. All religions are not the same as you have mentioned in the comments in response to Mr. KRS,s opinion. Venkat

 

[sesh52]

Dear Mr.Venkat

I would put that Religion and Secularismare two entities. Only when they are looked at the same platform the conflict of thoughts emerge. As i had quoted in my thread both can be practiced by the same individual without conflict. Accepting other religions also in the same fervour as one's own will avoid conflict.
Politicians are the root cause for this kind of Hindu bashing to get minority religions' favour. Otherwise the so called Rationale people who preach atheism also attend iftar parties etc. This is as good as prminant politicians call for samathuva bhojanam and practice untouchability personally.

Seshadri

 

[Singleliner]

In India, contradiction was not between religious and secular, but it was between secular and communal.

In the west it was between church and state & church and society but here neither Hinduism nor Islam had any church-like structure and hence there was no such struggle between secular and religious power structure.

Core issue in India is between secularism and communalism. The communal forces fought for share in power, and used their respective religions for achieving their goals.

Jinna,Advani, Muslim League,RSS are few among.

 

[RVR]

My native place is near both Velankanni and Nagore.
Personally I had my head shaved at Nagore Durga at my young age. I have visited Velankanni Church. I have listened to EVR's meetings in my younger days. I have lot of friends who don't have faith in any religion.

I have no problem in dealing with people belonging to other religions or rationalists. My only problem is with Pseudo secularists.
True secularism is being practiced by all Hindus without any problem. We accept all other religions as well as non-believers. But dealing with Pseudo secularists is the biggest problem. They are neither honest nor sincere. They preach one and practice another.

 

[[email protected]]

Secularism and Hinduism

To: All
Why we should call our spirutal faith as Hinduism, let us Call "VEDAMATHAM" because no name giving by our rishis found the Sound current from the eather and told us so our faith is not given any Name. Thats why secularism is the blood of our faith.We must getrid from this worldly things our main aim to reach our Origional Home. s.r.k.

 

[Siddhanta]

Found this article relevant here.

India and her problem of Secularism

Kalyan Viswanathan, ivarta

Today Secularism is the fashion in India. It is the “in” brand. It is the brand to give oneself, lest one be called “communal”. Many Hindus who are born in Hindu families, who carry the seeds of their Sanatana Dharma in their blood and their consciousness, have become ardent and vocal secularists.

This article is addressed to the Secular Hindus, and is an effort to engage their minds, in the hope that some of them may be open to a fresh evaluation.First of all there are two kinds of Secular Hindus.

1. Type A – Those who think that all religions are equally valid – “Sarva Dharma Sama Bhava” kind.

2. Type B – Those who think that all religions are equally invalid – The Atheist, Anti-religious, Anti-Spiritual kind



** SECULARISM in India INDIA SECULAR

 

[RVR]

Mahatma Gandhi's famous quote on Secularism

`God has no religion'

 

[Singleliner]

I think, majority of us have not yet understood the real meaning of 'Secularism', inspite of Shri.KRS explaining it well, earlier in one of his posts, with a good objective of brining the discussion back to track..

Let me remind you, please dont club and take pride of a religion getting identified with the recent few centuries succesfull civic administrative modus operandi called secularism.

Even Plato has written a lot about it, much before our ancestors thought about secularism, and later only to be picked and get it implemented by British after 2 millenia