SMART WORK .. Does it pay in the long run?

[sravna]

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Coming to the actual topic of whether smart work pays, it surely does a lot. Ideally, I would prefer to spend months to get an inspiring idea and then move on to implementation rather than be in a haste to implement my ideas, notwithstanding how much meticulously the implementation could be planned.

To me one really good idea is worth tons of hard work on a not so good idea. So spend more time on getting good ideas than on making mediocre ideas work.

 

[sangom]

Dear Shri Raghy and Shri Sravna,

I know I am intruding into your arguments about whether the Mahabharata War was entirely Dharmic or Adharma was resorted to. With my limited knowledge of the epics and Puranas, may I humbly say that this discussion will not lead us to any firm conclusion/s.

Our religious scribes who composed the epics and Puranas had the assurance that their audience/readers will be completely satisfied as long as the God's side won ultimately, irrespective of the tactics employed by either Party. The Hindu pov seems to have opened up to impartial analysis of these scripyures, from the earlier, doctrinaire stand, during the last few decades; we have had Hindu authors analyzing Ramayana and writing books which project Kumbhakarna as the hero of Ramayana, and Vibhishana as a traitor, Rama as an opportunist who engaged in killing Vaali from hiding because he did not have the courage to fight Vaali face-to-face (though Rama has been elevated to an 'avatar' of Vishnu subsequent to Valmiki's times — Valmiki portrays Rama merely as a prince though the interpolated Baalakaanda has Lord Shiva praising Rama, etc.) There is another book which projects Bheema as the hero of the Mahabharata and tries to bring out the deficiencies in the character-depiction of the usually highly held Arjuna, Yudhishthira, etc.

But this sort of awareness has definitely not seeped down into the minds of the majority of the Hindu population. They are still under the dogmatist pov and still like to believe that whoever had been projected as the 'avataar par excellence' was truly so, that all these incidents had actually happened. The suggestion that all these epics and puranas may be nothing but compositions by one or more of scribes who were well-versed in Sanskrit, will not be acceptable to those people. That is the spell cast by religion in the minds of people !

If we dispassionately consider the trend of the ten avataars of Vishnu (which are the most popular, as compared to the 32 or so avataars mentioned in the Srimadbhagavata, and adopted by the Vaishnavites), the first four avatars (Matsya, Kurma, Varaha and Narasimha) do not belong to any specific caste though all these four avataars are also depicted as partly anthropomorphic. When we come to Vaamana, we have a cent percent Brahmin avataar (in fact the rural slang for Brahmin in North India, Assam, etc., is "Baamun" which is a morphed form of Vaaman!); Parasurama is the son of a Rishi but Renuka is the daughter of a kshatriya, thus making Parasurama an off-spring of a Brahmin-Kshatriya marriage. Then we come to Srirama who is a Kshatriya, in the Tretaa yuga. Rama, as aforesaid, resorted to a few adhaarmic practices like Vaali vadham and Vibheeshana Saranagati.

The makers of the sacred literature seemed to have had a plan and so they made the avataar in Dvaapara yuga, Krishna, as a yaadava or a Vaisya by caste in those days. In fact Krishna himself is made to say कृषि गौरक्ष्यवाणिज्यं वैश्यकर्म स्वभावजम् | (kṛṣi gaurakṣyavāṇijyaṃ vaiśyakarma svabhāvajam). It appears to me that the scribes who composed the Mahabharata might have thought that this latest avataar can be depicted as indulging in lots more of actions which may not pass the strict definition of "dharma" especially in the context of the impending Kaliyuga which would, anyway, be full of adharma in this world. I will say, in line with the spirit of this thread, "Krishna was a 'smart' avataar".

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Sangom,

I could understand your position that nothing is sacred enough to be above questioning. So one can attribute motives to the highly held work of our ancestors. Let us not take the extreme sides, one of unquestioning adulation and the other of utter cynicism. We need to be dispassionate in order to not let our prejudice color our view of our scriptures.

There is such a large body of work from the past not necessarily consistent with one another and not also equally well thought out. The task of choosing the work that is coherent by itself and so most likely comprises the right metaphysics is a challenging one even for the scholars.

So when something such as the logic of a work which by nature has to be right or wrong is itself not conclusively decided, such as whether advaita or vishistadvaita is right, I think we should not diminish the grandeur of the earlier works be it a work of philosophy or an epic, by statements which can never be proved.

I think the focus should be first on the real worth of those works such the validity of non-dual nature of reality of Sankara for example than on whether Sankara had an ulterior motive in propounding advaita. Because such claims and counter claims can easily be made with one definitely not in a position to dispute the other.

In that spirit Mahabaratha was indeed a great epic with an intricate plot and complex characters posing a number of perplexing dilemmas and with a number of morals to take out from it. So I think even from the point of view of a case study it offers fertile ground to anyone willing to analyze and apply the decisions taken by its various characters given the background of quandaries that, not only those characters were depicted to face, but everyone of us face in our own life, the epic is indeed an invaluable source of knowledge.

Dear Shri Sangom, with all due respects to your own amazing knowledge, I admit we need not uncritically accept the ancient work but not easily dismiss them either.

 

[renuka]

Dear Forum Members,

I am immensely thankful for your enthusiastic participation and inputs in this thread.

I request more inputs relevant to the current scenario.

This 'SMART WORK' is the predominant mantra especially in the IT and IT Enabled Industry.

For instance, in my organization, in one of the projects, the Software Engineers adopted clever and crafty means to complete tasks, boost productivity and fake quality just to please the superiors. Eventually they cornered some rewards and at the appropriate time, quit the organization and joined elsewhere for better financial prospects. But the SMART worked boomeranged, the project suffered and ultimately the client withdrew the project. The organization lost significant revenue. The faithful and loyal Engineers in the project suffered and had to wait for a long time to be inducted into other projects.

May similar incidents be shared regardless of the nature of industry, be it IT, BT, Telecom, Manufacturing, Finance, Agriculture etc.?

Regards,
Iyer@Infosys

Dear Sir,

I find many bosses actually trusting those employees who just try to impress them and actually give extra face to those who gossip about others.

When I was in the rural set up there used to be many staff working under me and there was one lab technician who had a reputation of being a pest.

But to my surprise I found him a nice person who was grossly misunderstood.
He was actually hard working but he had a temper and would fight with the nurses sometimes.

So the nurses used to gossip to the district health officer and the officer would give this lab technician a real bad report for yearly performance.

When I was transferred there I was asked to give a report on his behavior and I gave a good report about him..my superior was furious..she said "all these years every doctor would give him a bad report and why on earth are you giving him a good report?"

I told her.."he was never late to work..was willing to work over time and not even asked to be paid for it..he would even do blood test when I request it at midnight..it is just that he does not get along with a few nurses on personal basis and they have been gossiping about him to me and even other doctors ....their personal problems I won't get involved with but work wise he is fine"

My superior asked me to change my report and write a bad report..I refused.
She even told me that she feels the lab technician must be secretly in love with me for following every order of mine.

I was thinking "OMG what an accusation!"LOL

She then said to me "if you don't change the report I will give you a bad report"

I said "I am not going to change my report"

So she gave me a bad report stating that I don't take orders from seniors.

So this is what happens in hospitals.

 

[vishviyer]

Respects to all,

Interesting conversation re: Mahabharatha here. Allow me to share what Sri. Venkatarama Siddhar mentioned about Sri Krishnar. The gist is : Mahabharatha was a war between Krishna and Shakuni. Shakuni propagated evil and Krishna broke it all by deflecting the wrongs and seemingly be manipulative. He did these to establish Dharma(as we all know) and justifiably so. His aim was to meet the goals in the prevailing atmosphere.

How does that translate into current reality. Work hard alright, (being a Brahmin, it is in our genes) but also smart (because you are capable) and fight the evil (that is Dharma) - not in a stupid way and frontally, but you can devise a clever way if you want to. It is important not to hurt yourself and antagonize others.

Vish Iyer MS FRCS

 

[Iyer@Infosys]

Dear Sir,

I find many bosses actually trusting those employees who just try to impress them and actually give extra face to those who gossip about others.

When I was in the rural set up there used to be many staff working under me and there was one lab technician who had a reputation of being a pest.

But to my surprise I found him a nice person who was grossly misunderstood.
He was actually hard working but he had a temper and would fight with the nurses sometimes.

So the nurses used to gossip to the district health officer and the officer would give this lab technician a real bad report for yearly performance.

When I was transferred there I was asked to give a report on his behavior and I gave a good report about him..my superior was furious..she said "all these years every doctor would give him a bad report and why on earth are you giving him a good report?"

I told her.."he was never late to work..was willing to work over time and not even asked to be paid for it..he would even do blood test when I request it at midnight..it is just that he does not get along with a few nurses on personal basis and they have been gossiping about him to me and even other doctors ....their personal problems I won't get involved with but work wise he is fine"

My superior asked me to change my report and write a bad report..I refused.
She even told me that she feels the lab technician must be secretly in love with me for following every order of mine.

I was thinking "OMG what an accusation!"LOL

She then said to me "if you don't change the report I will give you a bad report"

I said "I am not going to change my report"

So she gave me a bad report stating that I don't take orders from seniors.

So this is what happens in hospitals.

Dear Renuka,

"There is no substitute for Hard Work. There is no shortcut for success".

You maintained your integrity. Ultimately you are the one who succeeded.

Congratulations!!!

Regards,
Iyer@Infosys

 

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

if one reads ramayana completely with unbiased , open mind , it will be clear neither valli vadham nor vibeeshna saranagathi was adharmic.

if one reads with colored glass everything will look colored like a milk poured in pot containing poison will turn the milk poison however big the pot is.

BTW, there could be some doubts for person who didnt reflect well on valli vadham but what is adharmic in vibeeshna saranagathi? ... my little mind couldn't comprehend this.

I understand the mind-set of people who could understand only Jeeva Shristi and any works on Ishvara shristi is viewed with utmost suspicion and denial, in a way they are fair, why should they accept things that are beyond their comprehension? and also too many atrocities and outrageous things are commited , continue to commit in the name of GOD by few exploiting gullible people.

 

[Raghy]

Respects to all,

Interesting conversation re: Mahabharatha here. Allow me to share what Sri. Venkatarama Siddhar mentioned about Sri Krishnar. The gist is : Mahabharatha was a war between Krishna and Shakuni. Shakuni propagated evil and Krishna broke it all by deflecting the wrongs and seemingly be manipulative. He did these to establish Dharma(as we all know) and justifiably so. His aim was to meet the goals in the prevailing atmosphere.

How does that translate into current reality. Work hard alright, (being a Brahmin, it is in our genes) but also smart (because you are capable) and fight the evil (that is Dharma) - not in a stupid way and frontally, but you can devise a clever way if you want to. It is important not to hurt yourself and antagonize others.

Vish Iyer MS FRCS

Sri. Vish Iyer, Greetings.

There are two different accounts of Shakuni. In one version he vowed to destroy the Kuru dynasty, all including Kauravas and Pandavas; in the second version he vowed to kill all of Kauravas. I don't know if there was one more version. In any case, Shakuni well manipulated Pandavas and Krsna; used them to his maximum advantage and had them kill all the Kauravas.

If the whole thing was only between Krsna and Shakuni, Krsna should have handled Shakuni seperately without mixing Pandavas and Kauravas in the chaos. But one can easily see, often times Krsna was not even aware until Shakuni's tricks put Pandavas in the deep end.

Personally, I think the whole thing was not very smart at all. Let us take it even after Yudhishtra lost everything in the game of dice. Now, we have very fine young men, 5 of them with various master skills. Plus a very smart Krsna to help them..... 12 years of time too..... ( I am not counting the plus one year)... They could have very easily build their own nation in that time.. could have marched against Kauravas and could have kicked their backside or got their backside kicked in that process.. leaving all that options, lived in hiding for one year and then 'requested' their kingdom back.... at least 5 villages! Come on! kingdoms can not be acquired by 'requesting!'... even I know that!...

Cheers!

 

[Raghy]

if one reads ramayana completely with unbiased , open mind , it will be clear neither valli vadham nor vibeeshna saranagathi was adharmic....
........

Dear Sri. HRHK, Greetings.

If one reads Ramayana unbiased, one would conclude Vali was murdered in an adharmic method; would conclude Vibeeshana was a traitor. Sorry.

Cheers!

 

[vishviyer]

Respects to all,

Shri.Raghy,

I hear your views on Shakuni. Shri. Venkatarama Siddhar had divine knowledge and His views indicate so many aspects that us humans are not able to comprehend. Like the critical shift of Vidhuran because of Dhuryodhanan's insulting words. Superficially Vidhuran was a small fry. Even though he was Yama Dharmaraja's incarnation. Apparently he controlled Siva Dhanusu (Siva's bow) that was given by Parasuramar. The one in Ramayana was held by Ramar and He was victorious. In Mahabharatha, the Sivadhanusu was held by Vidhuran and after Dhuryodhanan called Vidhuran 'a low caste person' , in anger, Vidhuran destroyed the Siva Dhanusu. So a major weapon against Pandavas was neutralized even without anyone realizing it. Only two people were happy/sad and that was Krishnar and Shakuni. And so on and so forth. I was just recounting Shri. Venkatarama Siddhar's views as I understood it .

Vish Iyer MS FRCS

 

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

raghy ji

method may be adharmic in valli vadham but vadham was dharmic.

traitor ? common not from you i expect this . vibhishanar for his knowledge and tapas he was respected everywhere he goes, he is not indebted to ravana like karna to duryodhana.
he is a freebird and decided justly to save the country and her subjects from ravana.

yath raja that praja, if raja can't handle his raga dvesha and became a slave of his penn pithu , then you think of the subjects condition. it will be something like now no discipline and control eventually all the values will be lost by the subjects for that he decided to reform ravana since there was no chance he has left with no options.

please don't think that he was a servant of ravana, he is his brother and minster, he earned his bread and butter through rightful means. he is not slave of anything or anybody , his duty was to save the king and the kingdom that's all , first he tried to save his brother very bravely (read kamba ramayanam) but what to do, his brother was under the spell of kama , krodha nothing fall into his ears as the dictum goes " Moorgasya Oushadham Naasthi" . Vibhishna Alwar has left with no choice.

 

[Raghy]

Sri. HRHK, Greetings.

method may be adharmic in valli vadham but vadham was dharmic.

I fail to understand how vadham, the purpose can be dharmic. Let us look at the situation very closely. What was the reason for enmity between Vali and Sukreeva?

Mayaavi challenged Vali. At that time Vali was the king. Vali got annoyed by Mayaavi, set out to rearrange his face. Sukrive initially asked Vali to ignore Mayaavi, but didn't succeed, folowed Vali. Mayaavi went in a cave; Vali asked Sukreeva to stand guard outside the cave and went in on his own. The fight went on for very very long time. After one year, Sukriva assumed vali was dead and left the cave; before leaving, covered the cave entrance with a huge boulder. On return to Kishkinda, he got himself crowned as the king; took over Vali's wife Tara. ( This is the account as per Valmiki Ramayana). vali came back.

Sukreevan didnot stand guard as requested by Vali until he returned. He not only left post, but also Covered the entrance with a boulder. To make the matters worse, he crowned himself as the king of Kishkinda. Personal insult was, Sukreeva also took Tara for himself. I would be very much interested to know how sukreeva was just? Why would anyone support a beast like Sukreeva? Didn't sukreeva back stab Vali? Sukreeva knew Vali would smash him into pulp; that's why He bowed to vali on his return. but his actions say otherwise.

So, what was wrong if Vali wanted to beat Sukreeva into total submission? Don't you think Sukreeva asked forthe trouble?

Rama supporting Sukreeva was not justified at all. Rama knew the story before promising Sukreeva of his help. Sorry; neither the cause for Vali vadham was justified nor the method was dharmic. Rama was hailed as a "Purushothaman"; Vali vadham was not worthy for him. ( Don't get me wrong. I was a Sundara Kanda Paarayani. Could recite the whole Ramayana one of these days... but, Rama was wrong).

traitor ? common not from you i expect this . vibhishanar for his knowledge and tapas he was respected everywhere he goes, he is not indebted to ravana like karna to duryodhana.

I am sorry to disappoint you, Sir. Duryodhana crowned Karna as the king of Anga. There by, Karna became equal to Duryodhana. Karna had the gratitude. Fate had it, had Duryodhana knew Karna was the eldest of the Pandavas, chances are he would have crowned Karna as the emperor of Kuru dynasty... he had so much respect for him ( from what Vyasa narrates). Karna was free to do what he liked .. he donated kavacha kundalas; he promised to use Nagastra only once; he promised not to engage with any of the Pandavas except Arjuna... he did not have to consult Duryodhana before making such concessions.

O the other hand, Vibishana was the minister. He had obligation to serve the crown. If he was really loyal to the crown, he should have stayed with the crown to the end. But he did not. Secondly, Ravana washis brother. He left Ravana at the time of need. Granted Ravana was not the pure driven snow; but that doesn't justify Vibishna's crossing over. Thirdly, Vibishana alerted Rama about Ravana's army's strength and weaknesses. That was getting low. Can't get lower than that. At the end of it, Vibishana accepted Sri Lanka's crown. Sorry Sir, I see Vibishana as a traitor... a cheap traitor at that.

Cheers!

 

[biswa]

Mr. Iyer,

You have brought up a real practical issue in today's workplace. Unfortunately we are quoting stories from Ramayana and Mahabharata to you. Those were earth shaking events, affecting the lives of millions of people. What you are facing is petty politics, similar to what many of us face all the time.

Dont worry, real capability and hard work always triumphs in the end. Just try to do the right thing, but do not suffer too long due to misplaced loyalty to a disfunctional institution.

Dear Forum Members,

I am immensely thankful for your enthusiastic participation and inputs in this thread.

I request more inputs relevant to the current scenario.

This 'SMART WORK' is the predominant mantra especially in the IT and IT Enabled Industry.

For instance, in my organization, in one of the projects, the Software Engineers adopted clever and crafty means to complete tasks, boost productivity and fake quality just to please the superiors. Eventually they cornered some rewards and at the appropriate time, quit the organization and joined elsewhere for better financial prospects. But the SMART worked boomeranged, the project suffered and ultimately the client withdrew the project. The organization lost significant revenue. The faithful and loyal Engineers in the project suffered and had to wait for a long time to be inducted into other projects.

May similar incidents be shared regardless of the nature of industry, be it IT, BT, Telecom, Manufacturing, Finance, Agriculture etc.?

Regards,
Iyer@Infosys

 

[HARE RAMA HARE KRISHNA]

raghy ji!
i suspect you are reading with biased mind in this case . Please tell me did sugrivaa really want to enjoy being a king and used the oppourtunity come in his way. NO , please read carefully, they went inside the cave and no one came for 1 whole year . Sugriva consulted his ministers and aide, since the country needs a king and cannot wait forever without a king. (ministers and aides were appointed not by sugreeva but by his brother valli ) they advised that it is unlikely that his brother would return as no one can remain alive for one long year without proper food and water and likely both would have died. they also told him they are not sure about mayaavi and if mayaavi emerges as victorious then there is a chance for the maayavi to attack their kindom.

at that time the logical and reasonable conclusion is to close the cave so that mayaavi could be stopped.

Please consider if sugreeva desired kingdom, he would not have waited for 1 year, he would not have consulted ministers and aides appointed by vaali. he would have done then and there.

sure you would have read slokas and sugreevas deliberation and grief before he took this decision.

don't value people with kali yuga mentality, in the treta yuga people are really lofty, with only some minor exceptions.

Valli after emerging victorious after a long long long battle, come back and conceived like what you conceived without even thinking about the position of his brother at the time of the decision made. He kicked his own brother out of the country out of sheer anger and arrogance.

Please think how hurt sugreeva would be, he loved his brother , he genuinely deliberated and waited for one year hoping his brother would return , he griefed at the presumed loss of his brother and he closed the cave to protect his subject.

As a younger sibling i can understand the agony and anguish sugreeva went thru, many attempts were also made aftermath to vaali to make him understand the true qualities of his brother no all fell to deaf ears.

Lord Rama perfectly understood the agony of the noble soul sugreeva and gave protection to sugreeva.


You read with closed mind for this case.

You convienently ignored my point on "Yath raja thath praja" that's the bottom line.

If the Raja is no good all the attempts must be made to make him good.

idipparai illa emara mannan
keduparillanum kedum.

No soul in the ravana's court are brave enough to tell ravana what he done was wrong, but only vibhishana alwar. he told him off- " nee pesuvathu maanam peenuvathu kamam" .

Vibhishanar is such a brave soul. Only Gnanai's can have such a tremendous courage.



Bhagvan did all this shrishti , sthithi and samhara for what?

it is because we are so attached to our alpa buddhi's and so sick , we need to mature and realise the purnatva even it take kalpas after kalpas . IT IS OUT OF COMPASSION THAT WE GET LIBERATED FROM THE GRIP OF OUR ALPA BUDDHI bhagvan give us a platform. so says the following sloka :

"DHUR JANA'S SAJJANA BHUYAAT

SAJJANA'S SHANTI MAPNUYAATH..

....

"


This is not an easy process , first you have to refine the bad and evil persons , then you have to bring peace then you have to bring vairagyam in their minds then must show the path of liberation

If you have a good king , then the subjects will follow his foot steps (may not suit for kali yuga) so values and practices of kings must be a model for everyone to follow.

If the king fails , and the steps to correct him also fails, then what is the meaning in having a King, kingdom and subjects.

Like events happening in Kali yuga all will be purposeless. God alllow kali yuga for this, why should HE let this happen in treta yuga.

Minister job is not to serve the crown but to advise the king so that subjects following the king would eventually attain all the Four purushartas (importantly the moksha purusharta) that's his job. not to serve him like a slave . So he saved his subjects from a kama andhaka king and made sure his subjects attained the four purushartas. Very lofty nothing low.

aiyoo your value system all upside down.


Karna felt indebted to duryodhana coz he is nobody before and now become a king, not for nothing he fight for duryodhana. actually it is bondage a much lower postion , coz of weak knowledge of karna.

how can one compare a gnani and agnani.

 

[prasad1]

Mr. Iyer,

You have brought up a real practical issue in today's workplace. Unfortunately we are quoting stories from Ramayana and Mahabharata to you. Those were earth shaking events, affecting the lives of millions of people. What you are facing is petty politics, similar to what many of us face all the time.

Dont worry, real capability and hard work always triumphs in the end. Just try to do the right thing, but do not suffer too long due to misplaced loyalty to a disfunctional institution.

:der:

 

[biswa]

BTW, many Brahmins thrive quite well in a cut-throat corporate culture (not necessarily by doing something negative, but at least by knowing how to play the game).

Surely you know about the mega beverage giant Pepsico and its CEO Indra Nooyi?

 

[prasad1]

BTW, many Brahmins thrive quite well in a cut-throat corporate culture (not necessarily by doing something negative, but at least by knowing how to play the game).

Surely you know about the mega beverage giant Pepsico and its CEO Indra Nooyi?

Fortunately those Brahmins who have succeeded do not have to proclaim their caste, for the people who are failures need excuses.

 

[Raghy]

Sri. HRHK, Greetings.

I refer to your message in post # 39. I am not trying to convince you. I just penned down my point of view; I don't claim I am right either.I have no debate with you.

Cheers!

 

[biswa]

Fortunately those Brahmins who have succeeded do not have to proclaim their caste, for the people who are failures need excuses.

Yes, you are right, people who are successful and self-confident dont need a crutch. I have not seen Ratan Tata make a big deal about his Parsi back ground for example.

 

[Iyer@Infosys]

Mr. Iyer,

You have brought up a real practical issue in today's workplace. Unfortunately we are quoting stories from Ramayana and Mahabharata to you. Those were earth shaking events, affecting the lives of millions of people. What you are facing is petty politics, similar to what many of us face all the time.

Dont worry, real capability and hard work always triumphs in the end. Just try to do the right thing, but do not suffer too long due to misplaced loyalty to a disfunctional institution.

Dear Biswa,

Thanks for your opinions. With the factual accuracy of the events in epics and legends yet to be established, their relevance in the current business scenario is far from discernibility.

Much of the business in IT Industry is outsourced from USA and UK where the work culture is entirely different. The pacific and atlantic clients are interested only in metrics and performance is measured only through quantized parameters. They are oblivious to the means. Little do they realize the cause of recession and the hazardous impact their mentality and mindset has on business and ultimately on human lives. They bank upon the tenacity of their predecessors who bounced back from economic depression.

I reckon we need to come out of our myopia and be alert and prepared to encounter possible adversity in future.

Regards,
Iyer@Infosys