Smartha Sampradaya....A Few Insights....

[pbkhema]

Share:

Facebook X (Twitter) LinkedIn WhatsApp Email Share Link

Re the post of S007 bala of 6th April at about 4-50 pM.
The kanchi mutt has only an oral tradition. And the Buddhist and Jainist litartures are not alien.They are very much Indian. and the correct view is the one not accepted only by kanchi mutt.BhagavtPadal lived around 800 AD.All persons who follow his teachings are Smartas.There are no existing brahmnical texts for that period except for the commentary of the Yajanvalika Smriti which originated in Kasi

 

[s007bala]

re

Re the post of S007 bala of 6th April at about 4-50 pM.
The kanchi mutt has only an oral tradition. And the Buddhist and Jainist litartures are not alien.They are very much Indian. and the correct view is the one not accepted only by kanchi mutt.BhagavtPadal lived around 800 AD.All persons who follow his teachings are Smartas.There are no existing brahmnical texts for that period except for the commentary of the Yajanvalika Smriti which originated in Kasi

if i have given you the impression,that buddhidm or jainism or sikhism or any ism for that matter including the abrahamic faiths,its all from india whose map was entirely different from the present one.jews,arabs,russians,chinese,sinhalese,vietnamese,indonesians,americas,mayans,......are all bharathians aka indians formerly,maybe the first cycle of the vedic yugas.its not possible to put clearly how each became independent and found an identity and split as countries.trade routes especially sea routes were very crucial for messengers to furnish details of various cultures.

for me kanchi mutt is true.if you have a different opinion,plz continue to have it,i am not here to change your opinion,same way plz let me believe what i believe,thank you.

sb

 

[pbkhema]

I did not mean to offend any one or change his beliefs.I have done some research on the subject and hence the reference.

 

[suvarchas]

Hello! After a lot of thinking and reflection, I've now come to understand something about the Smartha culture. As I said in an earlier post, It is Shaivite. Let me explain.

(1)Shankaracharya is believed to be an avatar of Shiva.

(2)Shiva is a strict God with no mercy, as opposed to the over-flowing mercy of Lord Vishnu. Shankaracharya's teachings are ridiculously rigid and non-adaptive.

(3)Shankara exhorts us to attain Brahman through the Jnana marga. Shiva-Dakshinamurthy is a symbol of Jnana. Bhakti is to be discarded at the earliest....Hari is symbolic of Bhakti (He's the source of all yogas but that's beyond the scope of this post). So one has to discard Lord Vishnu at the earliest.Nama japa is only the means unlike in Bhagavatha dharma where nama is both the means and the end (c.f Srimad Bhagavatham, Rama Rahasya upanishad and the compositions of Sri Thyagaraja/Purandaradasa)....So one attains Brahman through Shiva.

(4)Renunciation is supreme in this samradaya. Shiva/Rudra is the god of renunciation. Thus follow Lord Shiva's example.

(5)There is NO Vishnu Panchayatana puja. Shiva Panchayatana puja alone is performed.(I have yet to come across a Vishnu Panchayatana puja in both books and online resources)

(6)We don't seem to have agamas but it 's Shaiva agamas that is taught to us Smarthas when needed. My grand uncle who's a Sri Vidya upasaka told me so.

Dear Raga,
There are books about Panchayatana puja wherein rules to keep your ishtadevata in the centre and keep other murthis accordingly.If you need them,please contact me

 

[zebra16]

Hi,
My quick response is that your understanding is incomplete. Whoever told you that Shiva is without mercy? He is Aashutoshi. Bhatki discarded at the earliest? Where did you learn this? If you havent come across Vishnu panchayatana puja, you havent searched enough.
Why should smartas have agamas? They are smartas because they follow smiritis like Gita, Apastambha, Bodhayana etc. and the Srutis.
If you are serious to follow through, reply to this thread and we can take it up from there.
narayan

 

[G. Soundara Rajan]

Smartha Sampradaya

All participants:

The discussion is going quite lively. The following points strike to me:

1. Sankaarar's Shanmatha sthapanam was to unify all the Hindu beliefs.
2. Saligramam (a stone obtained from Kandamukhi river in Nepal) is the respresentative of Vishnu Amsam in Panchayathana puja.
3. Advaitham is so flexible with any type of belief, including religions of foreign nature.
4. Aham Brahmasmi - is the essence. For attaining this, the worship of gods like Mariaatha, Kaliaatha, upasanas of various deities, bakthi etc. are the first few steps, which will pave way for ultimate realiation of the concept Aham Brahmasmi.
4. From Sankarar's story, at the time of his mother's death bed, the karna mantram uttered in her ears was in priase of Vishnu, since Vishnu is the giver of Mukthi.
5. Popular belief by advaithis are that Adhi Sankarar is the avatar of Lord Siva himself. All the achievements and Grantas with his authorship - not possible for a human being, that too a person who lived only a very short life.
6. Bashyam for Vishnu Sahasranam, Bhaja Govindam etc. are famous Hari bakthi ilakkiyams.
7. In Smarthas' Sraddha karma, a sthanam (place) for Mahavishnu is given and no sraddha in this sampradaya will be complete, without the place for Maha Vishnu. No difference among gods. Each one is given a named portfolio.

Much learned scholars are contributing to this topic. This is only sharing of my little knowledge on the subject. Thanks

G Soundara Rajaneace:

 

[RVR]

We also express during our Sankalapa `Sarvam Vishnumayam Jagathu'

 

[sunita]

Thanku

 

[zebra16]

I am replying to the post of Sri G. Soundara Rajan. I am replying only on points on which I differ from his points or have some additions to his points. I have nothing to say regarding Sri Sankara being the avatara of Shiva or what karna mantram he whispered in his mother's ear. These are beliefs and one can either believe or disbelieve them.

But Advaita is not a belief, it is a philosophy culminating from interpretations of upanishads, Gita and brahma-sutra. So I do not undestand who it can be "flexible with any type of belief including foreign religion".

In addition to "Aham Brahmasm", "pragnyam Brahma", "Tat tvam asi" and "ayam atma brahma" are also the essence of vedas. Only Vishnu being capable of granting mukti are pouranic stories. Other puranas also state about brahma-lokam, vaikuntam, kailasham etc.

Different portfolios to different Gods etc. are also puranic tales. There is only one nirguna brahman at the end according to advaita. You can call him as Narayana or Vishnu or Sadashiva or Para-shakti. When nirguna brahman is formless and attributeless, how can you give a nama or rupa to It?

Regards,
narayan

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri narayan Ji,
You have said above:
There is only one nirguna brahman at the end according to advaita. You can call him as Narayana or Vishnu or Sadashiva or Para-shakti. When nirguna brahman is formless and attributeless, how can you give a nama or rupa to It?

This is exactly the point. You are looking at a Visishtadvaitha principle through advaita glasses. Please look at each philosophy on it's own term.

This is how mis understandings start between sampradhayams.

Regards,
KRS

 

[G. Soundara Rajan]

Smartha Sampradaya

Hi all,

I find the Super Moderator Shri KRSji hqs amply explained in a superb way. What is in a name? Rose is a rose; by whatever name we call it. When body takes leave, it is only the Athma remaining. Brahmam. No name is needed. This is advaita.

Shri Venkatramanji has mentioned about 'Sarvam Vishnumayan jagath'. This expression comes in the sankalpam for all apara karmas, including Amavasyai tharpanam. Vishnu is the leader for Pitru loka, according to Smartha. Thank you for the prompting.

It hs to be appreciated that Athma cannot be realized by Vadha prathivathangal and they will more land us in endless arguments. Necesarily we should go in one way, one faith, one philosophy, concept, belief - whatever name you call it. Preferable is the path followed by our own kudumba ancestors/elders.

Appam will make noise/conflict/agitate when it is put to frying process. Once the process is over, the outcome will be sumptuous.This quote is by Ramakrishna Paramahamsar.

Experiment on finding adharam for Dhonnai or Ghee will result in loss of the product.

Regards to all.


G Soundara Rajan

 

[zebra16]

Dear Sri KRS,

I am willing to correct, if you point out the mistakes in my understanding.

Regards,
narayan

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri zebra16 Ji,

My only intention was to raise your understanding of different Sampradhayams and how you can not evaluate others from the viewpoint of one. Your understanding about Nirguna is perfect for Advaitham. But Visishtadwaitham and Dwaitham have different philosophies and different takes on Saguna/Nirguna Brahman, with different shades of color. As much as you believe in advaitha, the followers of those other sampradhayams fervently follow theirs.

No need to correct your ways. Mine was just a suggestion, so that we don't hurt others.

Regards,
KRS

Dear Sri KRS,

I am willing to correct, if you point out the mistakes in my understanding.

Regards,
narayan

 

[drsundaram]

hailing vishnu for smarthas

while smarthas do tharpanam etc during sankalpa times we say " sarvam jagat vishuu mayam , govindha, govindha etc and so on in many places. Why govindha... saravam vishnu mayam.... like why not Siva's name is in place of the above. Will any body clarify. Though strictly I respect vaishanaV samparadayams but just seeking clarity ; that is all.

 

[[email protected]]

To Sri drsdm23 ji, Smartha samprathayam came from a mixed culture of andhra and Tamilnaduin mid 18thcentury.The wealthy persons will by girls from Brahmin community (above 23 age )those days Balliya vivakam was very common. For getting childrens from them,this was started from Tirunellveli slowely moved towards Kerala and spread. Those days Only Vaishavam was in Andhra and saivam was less. This marrages the priests from Andhra will tell sarvam vishnu like wise and in due course this manthirams mixed when print media started. Another verson is that in our human body Vishnu is the davathi for stomach which food to be digested, begin with OHM and nameing five essenceal vaiyus Prana, abana and last Brahmana this method is thanks giving to the davathies.The smarthas always seeing GOD in every creation.They never say this GOD is superior or inferior they only say god is supreme.So they go to all temples and do poojas. s.r.k.

 

[drsundaram]

To Sri drsdm23 ji, Smartha samprathayam came from a mixed culture of andhra and Tamilnaduin mid 18thcentury.The wealthy persons will by girls from Brahmin community (above 23 age )those days Balliya vivakam was very common. For getting childrens from them,this was started from Tirunellveli slowely moved towards Kerala and spread. Those days Only Vaishavam was in Andhra and saivam was less. This marrages the priests from Andhra will tell sarvam vishnu like wise and in due course this manthirams mixed when print media started. Another verson is that in our human body Vishnu is the davathi for stomach which food to be digested, begin with OHM and nameing five essenceal vaiyus Prana, abana and last Brahmana this method is thanks giving to the davathies.The smarthas always seeing GOD in every creation.They never say this GOD is superior or inferior they only say god is supreme.So they go to all temples and do poojas. s.r.k.

any way thank you for your reply. But it does not help me to understand fully.Regards

 

[DURGADASAN]

Saivaites never think vishnu as a separate power. "Bum roopa krishna vigraha", Vishnu is noone other than sakthi. When, sakthi started to work in a separate purushakara it takes the form of vishnu (which is filled with compassion and grace). Vaishnavi, narayani are not the names of lakshmi, they are the names of durga. Also, when shiva got united with vishnu (mohini). Whether shiva doesn't know the difference between vishnu, mohini and parvathi? Having rights over parvathi (Sakthi) only, he united with mohini. So, it is very clear sakthi and vishnu are not two separate forms. Leelasukar started a new way of worship, which has the presiding deity Lalitha krishna gopala sundari. It (iam not mentioning the gender of the deity to avoid confusion) is a combo of krishna and lalitha. You can see it in mannargudi rajagopalaswami temple. Thus we can conclude Vishnu=sakthi. Also shiva gave his left portion to sakthi (Ardanareeswra), can he gave the same next to vishnu (sankaranarayana), if both are different??. How can it be possible if sakthi and vishnu are not the same????

Now coming to your question, a small incident is narrated here: a devotee asked paramacharya, being the jagadguru of sankara mutt, doing poojas to shri chandramouleeswara, why you are saying to devotees to chant vishnu sahasranama or lalitha sahasranama to get rid of their problems instead of making them to chant sivananda lahari, rudram like that. For that smiling he said, "என்ட்ட வரவா எல்லாரும் பணம் வேணும், பதவி வேணும், கல்யாணம் நடக்கணும், குழந்தை பொறக்கணும் அப்டின்னு லோகார்தமா கேகராளே ஒழிய பரார்தமா யாருமே கேகலயே. யாராவது வந்து சுவாமி மோக்ஷத்துக்கு போகணும் ஜென்மாவ ஒழிக்கணும் அப்டின்னு கேட்டா நிச்சயம் அவாளுக்கெல்லாம் சிவபூஜை பண்ணுங்கோனு சொல்லிருப்பேன்".

Vishni is the adhikari of maya. The whole world is filled with maya. The destructor of maya is shiva. He alone can make you to get rid of maya. So, the jobs of creator, protector, and destroyer should be realted to MAYA WORLD. Not this jeevathamas. Vishnu creates problems by means of mayasakthi as well as provides solutions when he was worshipped. Shiva instead destroys the maya infront of the jeevan and makes him jeevanmukta. You may see in real world, vishnu bhaktas will be of superior wealth and happiness, shiva devotees will be in a medium position and they will be seen much satisfied with that.

So, saying govinda govinda govinda or sarvam vishnu mayam jagath are all for this worldily pleasures. For eternal pleasure, shiva's grace is needed. (one way if you please vishnu, indirectly shiva is also pleased. Ofcourse, he gave his half portion to him na.)

Pranams...

 

[pbkhema]

Namste
I have heard about the folloeing but I can not personally confirm it.Some sect of Vadakalai Vaishnavites during their Sankalpam say "Sri Parameswar Prityrtam" to mean Parama (Great) Easwara
Now when we do Sapthasloki parayana etc we say "Durga Lakshmi Saraswathi Prityartam" This I can personally confirm
A Smatha is a follower of Advaita and not any specific deity

 

[DURGADASAN]

Yes actually smarthas are not perfectly saivites. But, colloquially it turned like that mam. We will say parameswara preethyartham orelse shri chandika devi preethyarham according to the start of worship which we are going to perform. If there is a ganapathi pooja, we will say shri ganeswara preethyartham (this simply means to pacify the particular god, that's all). So, this noway confirms whether we are saivites/shakthists/vaishnavites/others...
Parameswra comes almost in all sankalpa (at the same time, whether this parameswra is shiva or vishnu has to be confirmed)...I dont know much about vaishnava sampradayam...

Pranams

 

[drsundaram]

yes,very much we dwell upon as advaitha. Never there will be an utterence indicating exclusivity as if not of Sri Vishnu. As Durga confirmed, we take sankalpa dedicating to all that one Power.

 

[DURGADASAN]

Sundaram uncle,

My guru (working as shivachariar in meenakshi amman temple) once said to me that, during sandhyavandana, instead of saying kesava narayana madava govinda sridhara... they will simply say as siva siva siva siva... and touch appropriate parts. They got siva deeksha. If any sivachariars in this forum, let them clear... so that we also get clarified whether some customs including only shiva also exists or not...

Pranams

 

[Gururajan]

what is the purpose of adharvana veda?

 

[drsundaram]

Sundaram uncle,

My guru (working as shivachariar in meenakshi amman temple) once said to me that, during sandhyavandana, instead of saying kesava narayana madava govinda sridhara... they will simply say as siva siva siva siva... and touch appropriate parts. They got siva deeksha. If any sivachariars in this forum, let them clear... so that we also get clarified whether some customs including only shiva also exists or not...

Pranams

Is it, Durgadasan. It is a news to me. Is it accepted by great gurus like Paramacharyas. Thank you for giving a reference.

 

[DURGADASAN]

But am not sure uncle... I faintly remember his words. So only I said it would be better if we get the things clarified by some sivachariars. In vaishnava sampradaya, after getting diksha, they won't enter into sivan temples. Similar to that, I think this kind of act has been sprouted in medieval period. Because, certainly there is no bedhabedham between shiva and vishnu (In my style between husband and wife). So, chanting some divine namas during sandhi must be the only aim of the rishis who devised this act. Might be in due course this shall be rised (If the above post is correct. Even now am not 100% sure about that. Let we wait for eminent's answer regarding this).

Pranams

 

[SuryaKasyapa]

Sri Durgadasan,

Quote "So, chanting some divine namas during sandhi must be the only aim of the rishis who devised this act "

Here I have a doubt: Is it Sandhi or Sandhya? Sandhi means joint, I suppose. If it is so, then touching the sandhis-joints- is the main aim. Chanting a name of one's beloved Lord or deity as per one's belief is common and can be accepted.

Sage Valmiki was told to repeat the word Maraa-maraa-(tree to tree) toushing one tree and other tree repeatedly in order ; which ultimately turned by repetition the sacred Rama Naama for him later.

A mantra is some thing repeatedly chanted ,I suppose.

I stand to be corrected of my ignorance /half baked knowledge.