Status of brahmins in Global Scenario - reg.

[Sunil.K]

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27-06-2012,

Dear Members,

Status of Brahmins in Global Scenario - reg.

Sorry, I am unable to continue the thread, due to my ill health. As I am in the convalescing stage, after operation of Cataract and Gluecoma,
I will give the feed back soon, once I restored the normalcy.

In the meanwhile, I welcome all your comments.

Warm regards,

S.M.SRINIVASAN.

Wishing you a speedy recovery!

 

[Brahmanyan]

Status of brahmins in Global Scenario .

Dear Sri Srinivasan,

I wish you speedy recovery. First you take care of your health which is more important.

Warm Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[guruvayurappan]

post50#
dear sir !
best wishes for your speedy recovery &resume your usual routine
guruvayurappan

 

[vs_ramki1950]

dear srinivasan,
nice posting in this forum.as brahmins we hv to identify brahmins wherever they live and help who r in need of help.v should not divide brahmins by saying whether they r brahmins by birth,or by caste or by deeds. we r living in 21st century.we r living in a society where brahmins r politically isolated and govt schemes r generally go to the other caste. in cinemas and other shows brhamins r depicted as comedians.this should b resisted and v should protest those depictions and v as a community have responsibility to live in this society respected by all others. so let us b proud of being brahmins

 

[vs_ramki1950]

let god almighty bless u with speedy recovery and good health

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

#50

Dear Mr Srinivasan

Please take care of your health. We pray God for your early and speedy recovery.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[Raju1949]

Do we have any statistics about the number of Tamil Brahmins (including the Palghat ones) in India in vari0us states:
Their numbers,economic status etc? I feel it is high time this is collected
Raju1949

 

[guruvayurappan]

dear srinivasan !
how are you ? i feel you would have recovered and in a postion to do normal work by this time since your eye operation was conducted 2 months back .doctors say 4 weeks is sufficient . take care
guruvayurappan

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

The statistics of poor brahmins were once discussed in this thread earlier. Some data
were collected. But there is no correct data available. This was also debated in the
Tuglak magazine once. However, it is estimated to be around 3% of the state's total
population and are distributed all over the State. However, accurate statistics on the
population of the Iyer and Iyengar community are not readily available. Earlier, they
were concentrated mainly in and around Cauvery Districts besides Srirangam, Tiruchi,
Karur, Erode, Coimbatore, etc. In Northern Tamil Nadu they are found mainly found in
Chennai and in the urban areas of Kancheepuram, Sriperambudur, Vellore, etc.
Now a days the brahmin population is getting reduced inrural areas . Iyers are also found
in fairly appreciable number in Western and Southern districts of Tamil Nadu. Iyers of the
far south were earlier called Tirunelveli iyers and speak the Tirunelveli Brahmin dialect. During
the rule of the Mysore Maharajahs, a large number of Iyers from the erstwhile Madras
province migrated to Mysore. There is also a prominent group of Iyers in Karnataka
who are known as Ashtagramar. A section of Iyers were concentrated in Venad of
Trivancore State. Kanyakumari was earlier known as Travancore or Padamanabapuram.
Some people migrated from Tirunelveli and Ramnad Districts too to the princely state of
Trivancore. It appears the present Tirunelveli district formed part of old Travancore State.
Later they were These Iyers known as Travandrum Iyers. Later some migrated to Cochin,
Palakkad and Kozhikode districts. There were also migrations from CAUVERY Delta district
of Tamil Nadu to Palakkad. Their descendants are known today as Palakkad Iyers.or Kerala iyers.
Generally, Iyer and Iyengar population have migrated to various parts of South India viz.
Karanataka, Kerala and Sri Lanka too. Even in Tamil Nadu besides Iyer (Vadama, Vathima,
Brahacharnam, Ashtasahasram, Dikshithar, Chozihar, Gurukkal, Mukkani, Kaniyalar, Prathamaskar)
and Iyengar (Thenkalai & Vadakalai). Owing to changes and trend in the brahmin community
because of inter-caste marriages, percentage of brahmin community population has further
reduced.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

 

[Raju1949]

Do we know how many Tamil brahmins are studying Medicine in TamilNadu?

 

[vgane]

Do we know how many Tamil brahmins are studying Medicine in TamilNadu?

It should less than 5%...How about IAS & IPS....Again a minuscule proportion?...This is a guess work...I do not think there is any statistics based on caste...It is high time we collect the information...But who is going to do that?

 

[prasad1]

It should less than 5%...How about IAS & IPS....Again a minuscule proportion?...This is a guess work...I do not think there is any statistics based on caste...It is high time we collect the information...But who is going to do that?

I know information is always welcome. But what is the use of this information. It can used to bash brahmins, and in never going to help a single Brahmin. This kind of statistics will only dipress us.

 

[Brahmanyan]

Status of brahmins in Global Scenario - reg.

I know information is always welcome. But what is the use of this information. It can used to bash brahmins, and in never going to help a single Brahmin. This kind of statistics will only depress us.

Dear Sri Prasad,

Personally I do not believe any Statistical information, as the saying goes they are just "lies, big lies and Statistics" superlative of lies. We need not worry about the percentage of Brahmin IAS/IPS Officers. I know many Brahmins do not take IAS/IPS exams nowadays. The efficient officers (belonging to all communities) are finding difficult to work under the present political masters.
Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[nannilam_balasubramanian]

As far as I know there is no statistics of Brahmins alone are collected. Brahmins are
not generally liked by others. Since there is no preference for merit similar to those
days, besides owing to reservation factor, etc, brahmin people are not coming forward
to compete in the present scenario. Sometime back an article appeared in the Outlook
which gathered some data and the same is published in the Google. That information is
not updated. Poor Brahmins around 13% and rich around 19% or
so. Literacy level is around 84%. Number of MPs in the present Lok Sabha belonging
to brahmin community is not available.

Balasubramanian
Ambattur

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[XLR8R]

I've seen something somewhere that says that Tamil Brahmins in particular face a slow extinction; because most of them emigrated en masse from Tamil Nadu and increasingly we are getting assimilated into other Indian (predominatly Brahmin) families, for e.g. Gujarati, Marathi, Kerala, Andhra, etc.

 

[biswa]

It should less than 5%...How about IAS & IPS....Again a minuscule proportion?...This is a guess work...I do not think there is any statistics based on caste...It is high time we collect the information...But who is going to do that?

I actually think the opposite. We should not collect any caste statistics because that information may be twisted by any group to suit their agenda. The recent collection of caste data in the census was a big step backward IMHO.

 

[biswa]

I've seen something somewhere that says that Tamil Brahmins in particular face a slow extinction; because most of them emigrated en masse from Tamil Nadu and increasingly we are getting assimilated into other Indian (predominatly Brahmin) families, for e.g. Gujarati, Marathi, Kerala, Andhra, etc.

Interesting question. Given a choice, would identity would you prefer to retain: the Tamil identity or the Brahmin identity? How about NRIs who are hard-pressed just to retain their Indian identity?

 

[XLR8R]

Interesting question. Given a choice, would identity would you prefer to retain: the Tamil identity or the Brahmin identity? How about NRIs who are hard-pressed just to retain their Indian identity?

It's a difficult question, but if you want my personal opinion, here it is: I was fortunate enough that I was able to talk to my grandparents and great grandparents before they passed on, and thus have an idea of all the difficult times in the British Raj and what happened post-independence. Giving freedom to a country as diverse as this, and keeping it united was a gargantuan task in itself, and didn't come without a price to pay (see: partition). Post-partition events (kashmiri pandits, DMK actions, events outside India i.e. Pakistan) only strengthened the fact that if we continue to doggedly pursue regionalism and sectarianism, it will only lead to the mess that Pakistan is today (and Bangladesh by extension). It is a further disrespect to every one of our founding fathers if I continue to remain Tamil or Marathi or Gujarati or what not and rely on meaningless and shallow expectations to decide my life.

It the same time, caste system indicates specific duties relegated to that particular section of society which indicates that marriage within caste would still be desirable for the proper functioning of said functions. Especially when you are the minority, it is better that you stay united before you become extinct. That is why I feel the Brahmin identity is more important today than the regional factor of it.

For more religiously inclined individuals, I guess as Brahmins the Veda one is assigned to also plays a factor since many rituals depend on it. So, if you're going for an arranged marriage: match the Veda of the groom/bride with your family's so that there is minimal cultural disconnect. As far as love marriage goes, there's little difference either way BUT there should be a sense of responsibility in the kids (of all castes) to protect their lineage so as to prevent extinction.

As far as NRIs are concerned, I'd suggest that arranged marriage is probably not the best fit in that society, but if you are inclined towards it, better off picking a bride or groom from India. And over there, better to live as Indians than as caste Hindus, but of course the lineage still has some value. It's down to personal choice

 

[prasad1]

Mr. XLR8R,
Your post#68 is well reasoned.

 

[biswa]

Mr. XLR8R, well answered and I couldn't agree with you more on your bottom line: It's down to personal choice.

But now let me challenge you a bit on some of the points you have raised.
#1: caste system indicates specific duties relegated to that particular section of society which indicates that marriage within caste would still be desirable for the proper functioning of said functions.

Now there are plenty of Brahmins who function as CEOs of modern Indian companies. How does this jive with the specific duties assigned to a Brahmin as you indicated. And why is it necessary to marry another Brahmin to facilitate the person's primary duty of being a CEO. I can understand when this applies to rituals, but surely a CEO has very little time for those.

#2: sense of responsibility in the [COLOR=#DA7911 !important]kids[/COLOR] (of all castes) to protect their lineage so as to prevent extinction.
How is lineage protected by a conforming marriage? If a businessman marries a college professor, even if they are of the same caste, is the lineage protected? Whose lineage is protected? Is the father's lineage more important than the mother's? How sure is a person of his/her lineage beyond the last 3-4 generations?

Finally just another thought. You mention the desire to preserve the caste identity. Would it not be more worthwhile to preserve educational identity, cultural identity, athletic identity or even moral identity? Asked another way why should Sachin Tendulkar be identified as a Brahmin rather than as an excellent cricketer?

 

[renuka]

Frankly speaking no one faces extinction..we all come to this world just to work out our Karma..that's all.
We can not preserve bodily identity or lineage forever..everything is subject to change.
I am sure most of our DNA would be a cocktail of different communities all along since our caveman ancestor walked this world.
I am sure some cavemen visited other caves too and off springs were born.

I am sure many will not agree with me especially when I have quoted the BG verse below.

So do not worry too much it is the same Atma's that are recycled over and over again in various bodies we don from life to life and from death to death.

So when we are trying to preserve some identity today in our next life we might don a different identity and so on.
We had also donned a different identity in our previous birth..so which identity should we preserve?

The past.. the present or the future?

Just say a Chinese person suddenly remembers that in his previous life he was an Indian and tries to preserve Indian culture..would he be called a traitor by his race for preserving something which is not his present bodily indentification?

But he can argue that since he had that identity in his previous life he is entitled to preserve Indian culture too.

So going by that all of us have no idea what he had been before so that means we do have the licence to preserve any culture of the world at any one given time.

We have the duty to preserve HUMAN VALUES and that should suffice.

TEXT 20​

na jayate mriyate va kadacin
nayam bhutva bhavita va na bhuyah
ajo nityah sasvato 'yam purano
na hanyate hanyamane sarire

TRANSLATION​

For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain.​

 

[Raju1949]

Caste is a reality in TN today. By denying it we are only closing our eyes. It isnot important if brahmin boys and girls choose other vocations. But if they are denied certain choices then we should fight against it. For this accurate statistics is needed. Assume that the brahmin population in TN is 3 percent .Then if the percentage of students from this community in Medicine or IAS etc is less than 3 percent then it is a matter of serious concern. In any case facts can not hurt

 

[Raju1949]

Hiding behind philosophy is not good. By the same logic Chinese can take Arunachal and PAk Kashmir. After all Chinese and Pak atmas are also similar.

 

[renuka]

Hiding behind philosophy is not good. By the same logic Chinese can take Arunachal and PAk Kashmir. After all Chinese and Pak atmas are also similar.

My post was at an Atmic level when you are talking about war this verse will suit it the best.

That's why BG is pure magic it has a verse for every situation:


"Sukh-dukhe same kritava labhalobho jayajayo;
Tato yudhaye yujthasva naivam paapmavapsyasi "
(Bhagvad Gita: 2-38)

'Engage in the battles of life without considerations of pain or pleasure, and loss or gain. If one engages in the battle with such a state of being, then no act done by him will be a sin'.

The reason being that it is only dharma which will be your prime consideration in such a state.

http://www.speakingtree.in/spiritua...equipoise-in-the-battles-of-life-bhagvad-gita

 

[XLR8R]

Now there are plenty of Brahmins who function as CEOs of modern Indian companies. How does this jive with the specific duties assigned to a Brahmin as you indicated. And why is it necessary to marry another Brahmin to facilitate the person's primary duty of being a CEO. I can understand when this applies to rituals, but surely a CEO has very little time for those.

You bring up a good point, but let's not forget that the vast majority of people in the world are not CEOs. That constitutes their professional life. The "priestly" caste should be taken as more of a "spiritual inclination" than anything else. Know that even today you will find that Brahmins are the most strict adherents of the "aryan" Hindu dharma (if you don't believe me, go to places like Kashi, Benaras, etc. and see), and that they are still the most involved caste when it comes to spreading the religion and name of Hinduism (let's forget for a minute the Kayasthas who also sometimes did similar things). Similarly, many Kshatriya clans remain to this day very proud of their identity and die-hard nationalists. Vaishya clans like Patels are still primarily involved in business. So on and so forth.

Anyway, like I said, it's kind of an "inclination", not a guarantee. As far as a CEO having little time for those, let's just say he needs to do something at least for his children on specific days, and who better to remind him than his wife of the same caste . That's one way to look at it, though you could just hire a Pandit ji and have him do it all. In such cases inter-caste marriage isn't a big deal really.

How is lineage protected by a conforming marriage? If a businessman marries a college professor, even if they are of the same caste, is the lineage protected? Whose lineage is protected? Is the father's lineage more important than the mother's? How sure is a person of his/her lineage beyond the last 3-4 generations?

This "lineage" thing doesn't just apply to Brahmins. By "lineage" I mean "cultural heritage". For example, a Rajput only marries a Rajput in order to maintain the dignity and pride of being the Rajputs (however ludicrous that may sound, it's true). Similarly, you have similar systems in other nations too (e.g. Mexico with it's Mestizo and Castizo and Criollo populations). The thing is, you may or may not have had a love marriage, but you do not know whether your children will prefer a love marriage or an arranged one. When they ask you for e.g. an arranged marriage, it will help them to have an identity, if nothing than to feel better about themselves than just thinking of themselves as "mixed-breed Mutt Indian"....
Again, down to personal choice. Doing it, or not doing it, both have some pros and cons.

You mention the desire to preserve the caste identity. Would it not be more worthwhile to preserve educational identity, cultural identity, athletic identity or even moral identity?

To a significant extent, caste is culture. Caste systems are not be used as a means of discrimination but rather as a means of identification. Take for example Mexico (again) with it's Mestizo, American Indian, Castizo, Criollo and Euro populations, there is no discrimination but they are proud of their respective identities. Why preserve this classification? Because when a young person wants to know more, he should know what is his origin, what was the culture and society of his ancestors, and how they came to where he is now. Let's call it, a chapter in a history book. The history should never be lost to someone new, that's why it's important to preserve it.

As for the Sachin Tendulkar example, his Brahmin identity is the chapter of history, while his prowess as a cricketer is his current accomplishment. If there was no past, there is no present. Thus, I believe both are important!