Tambráhms ignorant of Devanágari

[natkaushik]

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The only vestige of Tambrahms is the knowledge of Sanskrit. But things have deteriorated to such an extent that we don't even know or use Devanágari, not to speak of Grantham. Our forum is full of Slokas and even mantras written in Tamil script without diacritics making pronunciation laughable. Is it so difficult to learn Devanagari? Can't members of this forum ensure that future generations keep knowledge alive?

 

[tbs]

The only vestige of Tambrahms is the knowledge of Sanskrit. But things have deteriorated to such an extent that we don't even know or use Devanágari, not to speak of Grantham. Our forum is full of Slokas and even mantras written in Tamil script without diacritics making pronunciation laughable. Is it so difficult to learn Devanagari? Can't members of this forum ensure that future generations keep knowledge alive?

hi sir,

DEVANAGARI is not for everyone.....it happened even in olden days...PALI/PRAKRTAM ARE MAIN LANGUAGE

OF BUDDHISM/JAINISM......devanagari used to be ONLY FOR MEN IN HIGH CLASS OF COMMUNITY...

even ladies used to be in prakratam....there are some exceptiopns....like GARGI/RUKMANI etc...so

common lay man tamil is ok to use slokas/vedhas too....grantham is gone with old vedic pundits...

when i was in vedhapatasala.....i was try to learn grantham....but i failed...so i did in sanskrit...TAMBRAHM

IS PROUD OF TAMIL AND SANSKRIT.....

 

[ekaputra]

.grantham is gone with old vedic pundits...

A young man who had come for 'Vishnu Ilai' was training for Vaithikam in a Veda Pathashala run by the Kamakoti Peetam. He said that they were taught to read/ write both Grantham and Devanagari and that he was comfortable with both scripts.

Sir, I hope that brings you some cheer - that Grantham is still in use!

 

[subi@172]

The only vestige of Tambrahms is the knowledge of Sanskrit. But things have deteriorated to such an extent that we don't even know or use Devanágari, not to speak of Grantham. Our forum is full of Slokas and even mantras written in Tamil script without diacritics making pronunciation laughable. Is it so difficult to learn Devanagari? Can't members of this forum ensure that future generations keep knowledge alive?

See my Easy Sanskrit and other lessons in easyhinduism.com

 

[renuka]

The only vestige of Tambrahms is the knowledge of Sanskrit. But things have deteriorated to such an extent that we don't even know or use Devanágari, not to speak of Grantham. Our forum is full of Slokas and even mantras written in Tamil script without diacritics making pronunciation laughable. Is it so difficult to learn Devanagari? Can't members of this forum ensure that future generations keep knowledge alive?

Any attempt to read/write mantras/shlokas in any script isn't really laughable becos as the geeta clearly says :

Chapter 2:​

TEXT 40
nehabhikrama-naso 'sti
pratyavayo na vidyate
sv-alpam apy asya dharmasya
trayate mahato bhayat

नेहाभिक्रमनाशोऽस्ति प्रत्यवायो न विद्यते।
स्वल्पमप्यस्य धर्मस्य त्रायते महतो भयात्।।2.40।।

TRANSLATION
In this endeavor there is no loss or diminution, and a little advancement on this path can protect one from the most dangerous type of fear.


So we should try to appreciate every attempt but at the same time try our very best to be accurate and accuracy is higher in scripts that can support the phonetics of Sanskrit.

Sanskrit is a language and as we know any language is sound based and since for documentation purposes we need the script to read and transmit knowledge... the current scripts are Devanagari and to some extent Grantham too.

It's not too hard to learn both.
For those who are familiar with Tamil..Grantham would be really interesting.

May be adult classes for learning scripts could be held to engage elders to learn something new.
Learning a new script rewires neurons and prevents memory related issues.

 

[renuka]

hi sir,

DEVANAGARI is not for everyone.....it happened even in olden days...PALI/PRAKRTAM ARE MAIN LANGUAGE

OF BUDDHISM/JAINISM......devanagari used to be ONLY FOR MEN IN HIGH CLASS OF COMMUNITY...

even ladies used to be in prakratam....there are some exceptiopns....like GARGI/RUKMANI etc...so

common lay man tamil is ok to use slokas/vedhas too....grantham is gone with old vedic pundits...

when i was in vedhapatasala.....i was try to learn grantham....but i failed...so i did in sanskrit...TAMBRAHM

IS PROUD OF TAMIL AND SANSKRIT.....

TBS Garu,

Sign up for my classes! I will teach you Grantham!LOL

Its not hard at all, I learnt it myself.
The conjuncts are mostly stacking one on top of the other as compared to Devanagari.

 

[natkaushik]

Any attempt to read/write mantras/shlokas in any script isn't really laughable becos as the geeta clearly says :

Chapter 2:​

TEXT 40
nehabhikrama-naso 'sti
pratyavayo na vidyate
sv-alpam apy asya dharmasya
trayate mahato bhayat

नेहाभिक्रमनाशोऽस्ति प्रत्यवायो न विद्यते।
स्वल्पमप्यस्य धर्मस्य त्रायते महतो भयात्।।2.40।।

TRANSLATION
In this endeavor there is no loss or diminution, and a little advancement on this path can protect one from the most dangerous type of fear.


So we should try to appreciate every attempt but at the same time try our very best to be accurate and accuracy is higher in scripts that can support the phonetics of Sanskrit.

Sanskrit is a language and as we know any language is sound based and since for documentation purposes we need the script to read and transmit knowledge... the current scripts are Devanagari and to some extent Grantham too.

It's not too hard to learn both.
For those who are familiar with Tamil..Grantham would be really interesting.

May be adult classes for learning scripts could be held to engage elders to learn something new.
Learning a new script rewires neurons and prevents memory related issues.

The task is writing slokas and mantras in any script, with diacritics where necessary, so that it can be recited correctly. No need to learn new scripts. Devanagari should be the standard, else IAST (roman) or Tamil with suitable diacritics.
Even in your quotation:->
nehābhikrama-nāśo 'sti
pratyavāyo na vidyate
sv-alpam apy asya dharmasya
trāyate mahato bhayāt
There are 5 places where long 'a' (ā in IAST)will be pronounced short and 's' ( ś in IAST) will be pronounced wrongly.
tbs avargale, prākṛtam was a language (not a script) written also in Devanagari script.

 

[Brahmanyan]

When I was young I have seen the use of books printed in "Grantha script" in Veda Patasalas. Grantha is an important historical script that was once used to write Sanskrit throughout South East Asia and greater Tamil Nadu. It was popular in Tamil Nadu until the early 20th century. After a gradual decline, Nagari or Devanagari superseded it as the common script for Sanskrig after 1950.
One scholar writes "Lalitha Vistaram", a very ancient but undated Buddhist text of hagiography makes mention of the names of 64 different scripts besides Brahmi, to have been in vogue during its contemporary times. Various scripts have been used for Sanskrit at various periods !
Based on the archaelogical evidence available, some opine that Brahmi must be the first and original script used to write Sanskrit.

Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[tbs]

When I was youngI have seen the use of books printed in "Grantha script" in Veda Patasalas. Grantha is an important historical script that was once used to write Sanskrit throughout South East Asia and greater Tamil Nadu. It was popular in Tamil Nadu until the early 20th century. After a gradual decline, Nagari or Devanagari superseded it as the common script for Sanskrig after 1950.
One scholar writes "Lalitha Vistaram", a very ancient but undated Buddhist text of hagiography makes mention of the names of 64 different scripts besides Brahmi, to have been in vogue during its contemporary times. Various scripts have been used for Sanskrit at various periods !
Based on the archaelogical evidence available, some opine that Brahmi must be the first and original script used to write Sanskrit.

Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

hi

the use of books printed in "Grantha script" in Veda Patasalas. Grantha is an important historical script that was once used to write Sanskrit throughout South East Asia and greater Tamil Nadu. It was popular in Tamil Nadu until the early 20th century. After a gradual decline, Nagari or Devanagari superseded it as the common script for Sanskrig after 1950.

when i was in veda patashala...we had grandha script used by our vedic teachers....i studied much more

in sanskrit publised by R S VADHYAR&SONS KALPATHY PALAKKAD WITH SOME MALAYALAYAM

SCRIPTS TOO...i never tried to learn in grandham...

 

[tbs]

TBS Garu,

Sign up for my classes! I will teach you Grantham!LOL

Its not hard at all, I learnt it myself.
The conjuncts are mostly stacking one on top of the other as compared to Devanagari.

hi

i know grantham....not much fluent...thanks for your help...lol

 

[sunalive]

The only vestige of Tambrahms is the knowledge of Sanskrit. But things have deteriorated to such an extent that we don't even know or use Devanágari, not to speak of Grantham. Our forum is full of Slokas and even mantras written in Tamil script without diacritics making pronunciation laughable. Is it so difficult to learn Devanagari? Can't members of this forum ensure that future generations keep knowledge alive?

This is what happens when you don't know how to read/write Tamil well. We have enough ways to get the diatrics known and bring the pronunciation without using them explicitly. That's the beauty of the language and those who laugh at not seeing the language 'their way' are the ones actually laughable. It's not the language, it's the skill and mindset and those who laugh, clearly are not skilled at it. Oh! BTW, learning another language is always good but we do that only when we really need/want it. When we are able to express everything properly in Tamil, we really don't have the 'need', it just boils down to convenience of knowing it, will make it easier to read in the original language. 'The only vestige of Tambrahms is Sanskrit' is such a laughable statement.

 

[natkaushik]

This is what happens when you don't know how to read/write Tamil well. We have enough ways to get the diatrics known and bring the pronunciation without using them explicitly. That's the beauty of the language and those who laugh at not seeing the language 'their way' are the ones actually laughable. It's not the language, it's the skill and mindset and those who laugh, clearly are not skilled at it. Oh! BTW, learning another language is always good but we do that only when we really need/want it. When we are able to express everything properly in Tamil, we really don't have the 'need', it just boils down to convenience of knowing it, will make it easier to read in the original language. 'The only vestige of Tambrahms is Sanskrit' is such a laughable statement.

Glad that you had a hearty laugh. Did I say that Tamil script is inadequate to write Tamil? All your outpourings of scorn is pointless.
By the by, pray what are the vestiges of tambrahms you have other than punal?

 

[PSGANESAN]

Unless someone wants to learn and understand Sanskrit, one need not learn devanagari. As in Tamil Nadu is following two language policy many are denied opportunity to learn one more language. But in websites such as 'sanskritdocuments.com' all slokams are given in Tamil scripts differentiating ka, cha groups etc. by ka1, ka2 etc. thus accommodating all sanskript letters. Even if someone learns Devanagari script also it is not easy to read slokas immediately and it takes time.

Grantha lipi was born and developed in Tamil Nadu and it was a part of tamil culture. Many Grantha escavations were found in tamil Nadu . May be for the sake of uniformity, we started using Devanagari scripts and it has totally replaced Grantha script. Unfortunately there is no taker for granta lipi.

 

[Raji Ram]

Most of the kids in CBSE don't opt to learn Tamil. It is second language - Sanskrit or French and third language Hindi. This is for keeping the marks in 95+.

For kids coming to learn Carnatic music, notations are requested in English!

One poet said, 'தமிழ் இனி மெல்லச் சாகும்".
I am also afraid by looking at the way spellings are written in Tamil.

 

[natkaushik]

most parents, don't opt for Tamil for their kids in school. Mostly because they don't know good enough tamil to coach them at home. Now that tamil is made compulsory in CBSE schools also, it will survive some more time. Perhaps with #NEP kicking in, CBSE will give more importance to mother tongue. Anyway Tambrahms have given up on Sanskrit and Tamil. English forever! Rule Britannia!

 

[Brahmanyan]

இன்றைய சமூகத்தில் நமது வீடுகளில் தமிழ் பேசுவது குறைந்துவிட்டது. ஆங்கிலம் கலந்த ஒரு கலப்பட பாஷையில்தான் பேசுகிறோம். வெளியே கடைகளிலும் தமிழ் அதே கதியில்தான் பேசப்படுகிறது. இன்று பிராமண குடும்பங்கள் வெளிநாடுகளுக்கு புலம்பெயர்ந்து சென்ற நிலையில் நமது சந்ததியருக்கு தமிழ் நமது தாய் பாஷை என்ற நிலை அறவே விட்டுப்போய் விட்டது.
இந்த நிலையில் சமஸ்கிருதத்தை கற்றுக்கொள்ள வேண்டும் என ஆர்வமுள்ளவர்கள் வெகுச்சில ஆராய்ச்சியாளர்கள் மட்டுமே. இதற்கு நமது குழந்தைகளை குற்றம் சொல்வது தவறு. அவர்களின் பிற்கால வாழ்க்கைக்கு எந்த மொழி அவசியமோ அதில் படிக்கவே விரும்புவது இயற்கையே. தவறு ஒன்றும் இல்லை.

பிரஹ்மண்யன்
பெங்களூர்.

 

[natkaushik]

போன்ற பஸ்இன்றைய சமூகத்தில் நமது வீடுகளில் தமிழ் பேசுவது குறைந்துவிட்டது. ஆங்கிலம் கலந்த ஒரு கலப்பட பாஷையில்தான் பேசுகிறோம். வெளியே கடைகளிலும் தமிழ் அதே கதியில்தான் பேசப்படுகிறது. இன்று பிராமண குடும்பங்கள் வெளிநாடுகளுக்கு புலம்பெயர்ந்து சென்ற நிலையில் நமது சந்ததியருக்கு தமிழ் நமது தாய் பாஷை என்ற நிலை அறவே விட்டுப்போய் விட்டது.
இந்த நிலையில் சமஸ்கிருதத்தை கற்றுக்கொள்ள வேண்டும் என ஆர்வமுள்ளவர்கள் வெகுச்சில ஆராய்ச்சியாளர்கள் மட்டுமே. இதற்கு நமது குழந்தைகளை குற்றம் சொல்வது தவறு. அவர்களின் பிற்கால வாழ்க்கைக்கு எந்த மொழி அவசியமோ அதில் படிக்கவே விரும்புவது இயற்கையே. தவறு ஒன்றும் இல்லை.

பிரஹ்மண்யன்
பெங்களூர்.

குழந்தைகளை, ஏன் பெற்றோர்களையும் கூட குற்றம் சொல்ல முடியாது. சூழ்நிலை அப்படி. தமிழும் சமஸ்கிருதமும் சோறு போடாது. ஆங்கிலம்தான் (ஹிந்தியும் சிறிதளவு) சோறு போடும். பகவான் கிருபையில் தமிழ் பற்று இளம் தலைமுறையில் காணப்படுகிறது.