Tamil Astrology Signs vs English Astrology Signs

[praveen]

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- personal views and general knowledge question only -
------------------------------------------------------------​

I am not a very great believer in astrology predictions and stuff but then like most of us i do take a look at the predictions whenever i am bored or happen to come across via email or in newspaper.

According to the English Astrology my Sun Sign is Aries. Simple and straightforward.

According to the Rasi palans that appear in magazines and websites, Aries is Mesha rasi in tamil.
But as per my mom and the astrologer (during my marriage) i belong to Vrishaba rasi as my star falls under Vrishaba rasi. Now this translates into Taurus in english.

I am aware there are differences in the Indian Astrology vs English Astrology. But for a layman and an occasional reader of these predictions, should i be overly worried about this conflicting signs or just ignore and read what i know?

i.e. in my case, Aries.

Would be great if someone can clarify this.

 

[Raji Ram]

The Sun moves from one constellation to the next in roughly one month. So, solar astrology depends on the date and month in which a person is born. The zodiac sign is given accordingly.

Tamil Rasi is based on the star in which a person is born. The star of a particular day is the calculated by the moon's position in the sky. If the moon is near the star Ashwini, that day's star is Ashwini and so on.....

Hence, the solar based system and lunar based system have the difference.

 

[amala]

In Western astrology they seem to give importance to the Sun sign whereas in Vedic astrology it is the Rashi (ie the moon sign) which seems to be more important as moon governs the mind.

So your western Aries means your Sun is in Aries. And your Vrishabha rashi is your moon is in Taurus and not your sun. Your vedic Sun is probably in Pisces (Meenam) as i have noticed Tamil/Vedic Sun signs are always one behind the western sun sign.

My western sun sign is Gemini (mithunam) but my vedic sun is in Vrishaba (taurus) and my rashi is kataka, meaning my moon is in Katakam.

I admit that its all really confusing and most people just stick to which they prefer although you will find most Hindus saying vedic astrology is that much more accurate.

PS: hope i havent confused you more Praveen

 

[Raji Ram]

My date of birth is in the second half of May and hence my zodiac sign is Gemini - Mithuna.

But my star comes under Kadaka Rasi!

The twenty seven stars are divided into 12 rAsis. Hence each star has 4 parts (paadhams) and 2 and 1/4 stars come under each rAsi.

Here is the chart copy pasted:

Mesha	- Aswini (Asvini) - Apa Bharani (Barani) - first quarter of Krittika (Karthigai)
Vrishabha	- last three quarters of Krittika (Karthigai) - Rohini - first half of Mrigasira (Mrigaseersham)
Mithuna	- second half of Mrigasira (Mrigaseersham) - Ardra (Thiruvadhirai) - first three quarters of Punarvasu (Punarpoosam)
Kataka	- last quarter of Punarvasu (Punarpoosam) - Pushyami (Poosam) - Aslesha (Ayilyam)
Simha	- Makha (Magham) - Poorva Phalguni (Pooram) - first quarter of Uttara Phalguni (Uttaram)
Kanya	- last three quarters of Uttara Phalguni (Uttaram) - Hasta (Hastham) - first half of Chitra (Chittirai)
Thula	- second half of Chitra (Chittirai) - Swati (Swathi) - first three quarters of Visakha (Visakham)
Vrischika	- last quarter of Visakha (Visakham) - Anuradha (Anusham) - Jyeshta (Kettai)
Dhanus	- Moola (Moolam) - Poorvashada (Pooradam) - first quarter of Uttarashada (Uttiradam)
Makara	- last three quarters of Uttarashada (Uttiradam) - Sravana (Thiruvonam) - first half of Dhanishta (Avittam)
Kumbha	- second half of Dhanishta (Avittam) - Satabhishak (Sadhayam) - first three quarters of Poorvabhadra (Pooratadhi)
Meena	- last quarter of Poorvabhadra (Pooratadhi) - Uttarabhadra (Uttiratadhi) - Revati (Revathi)

[TD="align: center"] RASI [/TD]
[TD="align: center"] NAKSHATRA [/TD]

 

[KRS]

Just to add.

Yes, the western astrology is based on the Sun and the Vedic astrology is based on the stars.

These two axis were the same in one time in the past, but they have slowly progressed away from each other from the viewpoint of the Ascendant (Lagna), which is the Zodiac sign arising at the place of one's birth, at the time of birth. This difference in the lagnas between the two systems is called 'Ayanamsa'. There are various folks who have calculated this value, based on the progression of this difference each year. For example, you have Raman, Lahiri etc. These are based on going back and determining when in the past the two systems were in sync. So, they differ a bit from each other today. Lahiri is an average of many ayanamsas, which came up with an 'official' ayanamsa, headed by the namesake of an Indian government sponsored committee. This is viewed generally as the most accurate. Currently the difference is about 30 degrees, with our system following the western system by that amount and hence what Sowbhagyavathi Amala Ji has said about noticing a difference of one sign is correct (each house is 30 degrees for the total of 12 houses and 360 degrees in a horoscope)

Now in our astrology, the events in one's life are projected from the moon's position (janma star is thus determined by this). Our predictive systems are based on the moon's position and our system in the prediction business seems to be far superior to the western system. While in the west they predict from only the Sun's position at the time of one's birth, our system takes in to account the strengths of a horoscope based on the positions of the Ascendant(native's body), Moon(native's mind) and Sun(native's soul). I think that the generic western predictions you see in papers based on the Sun are not very useful.

Hope I have not confused also.

Regards,
KRS

 

[praveen]

Thanks Guys

our system takes in to account the strengths of a horoscope based on the positions of the Ascendant(native's body), Moon(native's mind) and Sun(native's soul).

So, taking my case, if i read the astro predictions of Vrishaba rasi (since my birth star is in this) then it is correct for me?

and i can safely ignore the Mesha=Aries stuff?

At the same time why is it so many websites equate Vrishaba rasi with taurus?. i have been so intrigued by this that i did spend a good amount of time going through various sites.

Here is a copy/paste from one such site (http:// hindupad.com/2011/vrishabha-rashi-2011-predictions-and-horoscope-taurus-horoscope-2011-astrology-predictions/) which is quite confusing.

Vrishabha Rashi or Vrushabha Rasi is the second rasi or zodiac sign in Hindu Astrology. It is known as Taurus Zodiac sign in western astrology. This article gives you Vrushabha rashi 2011 astrology predictions or horoscope or Taurus horoscope 2011 predictions. It covers every aspect of life – health, career, business, love, relationship, marital life, work, character, etc. Krittika Nakshatram 1, 2, 3 padas or charans, Rohini Nakshatram all padas, Mrigasira Nakshatram 1, 2 padas are categorized under Vrishabha Rashi.

Those who are born between April 21 and May 20 are the natives of Taurus Zodiac as per the date of birth. This system is used in Hindu astrology when you do not know the exact time or your birth star (nakshatram). Here are the astrology predictions for Vrishabha rashi natives in 2011.

 

[renuka]

According to Western astrology my Sign is Libra (known for their indecisiveness owing to the dual scales) and according to Indian Astrology my Rashi is Mithuna(another dual sign)

So I always have a problem chosing things and always end up chosing both!!!
I guess it must be becos of my Zodiac.

 

[sangom]

Shri Praveen,

If your DOB (English) is within April 23 to May 22 or whatever each paper states, your sun sign according to western astrology will be Aries. But most probably your birth star is Krittika and the 2nd., 3rd. and 4th. quarters (paadams as we refer to them in our horoscopes) are in Vrishabha rasi according to our rasi palan colimns and indian astrology where rasi is based on the position of the moon and not the sun which the western astrology follows.

Hence read Aries palan in western and vrishabha rasi palan in Tamil/Indian system predictions. (You may be a bullish ram or ramish bull)

 

[ozone]

Thanks Guys



So, taking my case, if i read the astro predictions of Vrishaba rasi (since my birth star is in this) then it is correct for me?

and i can safely ignore the Mesha=Aries stuff?

Depends .. If you are reading a vedic/tamil prediction based on Birth Star, then you see it under Vrishaba Rasi.
If you are reading a western astrology based on Zodiac (sun sign), you should look it under Aries.
To repeat what others have already mentioned, Your sun sign is Aries, your moon sign is Vrishaba, so look at your predictions accordingly.

At the same time why is it so many websites equate Vrishaba rasi with taurus?. i have been so intrigued by this that i did spend a good amount of time going through various sites.

Here is a copy/paste from one such site (http:// hindupad.com/2011/vrishabha-rashi-2011-predictions-and-horoscope-taurus-horoscope-2011-astrology-predictions/) which is quite confusing.

I think the equation here is merely in the name. Name of Vrishaba in English is Taurus. This is not to say that Vrishaba Rasi based on Star is the same as Taurus based on Date.

 

[sravna]

AFAIK sun sign is the least important in vedic astrology. Moon signs and lagna are far more important and mostly are the only ones considered in making predictions. The moon sign predictions as Shri.KRS points out is concerned with matters related to our mind and the lagna our external life. The former is about our perception and the latter is about reality. So the focus is different.

From my limited exposure to astrology I find it to be a very systematic and consistent body of knowledge even better than some of our modern sciences but unfortunately not given the seriousness and scholarly attention that it deserves.

 

[Yamaka]

AFAIK sun sign is the least important in vedic astrology. Moon signs and lagna are far more important and mostly are the only ones considered in making predictions. The moon sign predictions as Shri.KRS points out is concerned with matters related to our mind and the lagna our external life. The former is about our perception and the latter is about reality. So the focus is different.

From my limited exposure to astrology I find it to be a very systematic and consistent body of knowledge even better than some of our modern sciences but unfortunately not given the seriousness and scholarly attention that it deserves.

Dear Praveen, Sanghom, KRS and others:

"From my limited exposure to astrology I find it to be a very systematic and consistent body of knowledge even better than some of our modern sciences but unfortunately not given the seriousness and scholarly attention that it deserves." Sravna post 10

Do you believe what dear Sravna says above?

I don't.

Since you all read the astrological predictions, as per either the Lunar or the Solar Method, how many feel that such predictions were correct, thus useful in your regular life?

Just curious!

I bet that the predictions were wrong at least 50% of the times!

Cheers.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Yamaka Ji,

I do not read any predictions published in any periodicals, because as you say, they are at best 50-50..

I have however have been practicing vedic astrology as a hobby for the past 45 years of my life. When one constructs one's individual horoscope and predicts based on vedic astrology principles, my experience has always been that it is much more accurate than 50-50. This I have observed from the empirical viewpoint.

In that respect, I agree with Sri Sravana Ji's viewpoint.

Regards,
KRS

Dear Praveen, Sanghom, KRS and others:

"From my limited exposure to astrology I find it to be a very systematic and consistent body of knowledge even better than some of our modern sciences but unfortunately not given the seriousness and scholarly attention that it deserves." Sravna post 10

Do you believe what dear Sravna says above?

I don't.

Since you all read the astrological predictions, as per either the Lunar or the Solar Method, how many feel that such predictions were correct, thus useful in your regular life?

Just curious!

I bet that the predictions were wrong at least 50% of the times!

Cheers.

 

[sangom]

Dear Praveen, Sanghom, KRS and others:

"From my limited exposure to astrology I find it to be a very systematic and consistent body of knowledge even better than some of our modern sciences but unfortunately not given the seriousness and scholarly attention that it deserves." Sravna post 10

Do you believe what dear Sravna says above?

I don't.

Since you all read the astrological predictions, as per either the Lunar or the Solar Method, how many feel that such predictions were correct, thus useful in your regular life?

Just curious!

I bet that the predictions were wrong at least 50% of the times!

Cheers.

Shri Y,

I do read the predictions in magazines more as pastime than seriously, but I avoid the daily results because I feel if you start comparing such predictions with what actually happens during the 24-hour day, you are likely to go mad!

KRS seems to have the inborn gift of prediction but he does not do prediction except for his close family. I am not gifted with the knack of prediction and I have had a small % of successful and may be miraculous accuracy in some isolated cases too.

We have discussed astrology in the past. My views are in the archives. To put my view succinctly, astrology is capable of being systematised to the status of a scientific discipline but that will require tremendous efforts and huge money.

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Earlier I used to go through the predictions of one 'Peter Vidal' in Indian Express.He used to write 'Ganesha says........'.I found his predictions were true in general terms.

 

[Yamaka]

Earlier I used to go through the predictions of one 'Peter Vidal' in Indian Express.He used to write 'Ganesha says........'.I found his predictions were true in general terms.

Dear Krish Sir and other Believers of astrology/horoscope:

I am going to narrate a real story and ask your opinion as to what went wrong.

My wife's sister's daughter (a MSc) married a well qualified PhD (from US University) - all traditional TBs from Chennai -arranged marriage by the families. Their date and precise time of birth is all known from family's written records. The families got the advice of three independent astrologers in Chennai. They all happily predicted that "this marriage is made in heaven - nothing but a resounding success long term with happy children and smile and wealth".

The couple stayed in the US for a year, then lived in Europe for a year and returned to Bangalore to take up plum jobs. Both worked.

After about a year as happily married couple in B'lore, one early morning, the husband beat the wife up so badly and threw her out to the utter astonishment of the neighbors and the manager of the posh multi-unit condo..

She was very hurt, and in tears laboring for breath.. her parents rushed to the place (from Chennai) to take charge of the situation. The husband verbally abused the in-laws and asked them to get out of his face immediately!

Soon after, the man lost his plum job and is back in Chennai beating up his parents and sister for all the bad things they did to him, including the arranged marriage!

Both families are in extreme shock and pain... no one could possibly figure out what the hell happened to this young man!

How come this was not predicted by the Three Independent Astrologers?

I am very curious!

Regards.

Y

 

[sravna]

Dear Shri Yamaka,

I trust astrology not necessarily astrologers. I myself have seen the correspondence between reality and what the horoscope predicts. Can you explain to me how such a better than chance correlation is possible?

 

[Yamaka]

Dear Shri Yamaka,
I trust astrology not necessarily astrologers. I myself have seen the correspondence between reality and what the horoscope predicts. Can you explain to me how such a better than chance correlation is possible?

Dear Sravna:

I don't believe in astrology or any astrologer, horoscope reader or the likes.

I believe that IF enough times a coin is tossed (like n= at least 100) you WILL get close to 50:50 of tail or head. It just can't reach 95:5 at all anytime.

Therefore, only the Believers of astrology should explain what you observe.

The key is

1. You should have meticulous record of what you predicted BEFORE the event occurred.

2. An unbiased third person should check whether enough n is attained (like 100 predictions).

3. Then that third person should declare the Result.

This we do in our scientific experiments: Samples are coded and the person who does the experiment will not know which one is "placebo" and which one has "real medicine" etc.

Because most human beings are biased people, whether we like it or not.

More later...

 

[nachi naga]

even though i am going thru a trying time,my faith is unshakeable in vedic astrology.if we have an ayanamsha like that Occult Wizard : Tarun Chopra "Enlighten the Path to Future" then both western and eastern(indian) will tally exactly.but chithra paksha ayanamsha or lahiri is the most accepted even by goi.in fact to predict all three lagna or ascendant,chandra lagna,surya lagna must be consulted for accuracy.sun is the soul of the chart.moon the mind.if praveen has aries sun as per western then invariably he shud see pisces sun in vedic astrology.as per indian view he will be pisces sun .my 2 cents.

 

[prasad1]

Why this fascination with prediction about future?
Maheronline - Religion
"What has happened has happened for the best. What is happening is happening for the best. What will happen will happen for the best. Do not brood over the past. Do not, worry about the future. The present is on."

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna:

I don't believe in astrology or any astrologer, horoscope reader or the likes.

I believe that IF enough times a coin is tossed (like n= at least 100) you WILL get close to 50:50 of tail or head. It just can't reach 95:5 at all anytime.

Therefore, only the Believers of astrology should explain what you observe.

The key is

1. You should have meticulous record of what you predicted BEFORE the event occurred.

2. An unbiased third person should check whether enough n is attained (like 100 predictions).

3. Then that third person should declare the Result.

This we do in our scientific experiments: Samples are coded and the person who does the experiment will not know which one is "placebo" and which one has "real medicine" etc.

Because most human beings are biased people, whether we like it or not.

More later...

Dear Shri yamaka,

Let me tell one example where the prediction was accurate. One of my relatives who was a cancer patient was cured completely of the disease and is living a perfectly normal life. Though my skill in reading charts and making predictions is limited, I was able to see at least 2 strong indications in his chart that meant a long life. No wonder he survived even a fatal disease like cancer. There are indications even in my chart and in those of some I know closely that happened actually.

The way to make astrology gain in stature is to bring out the systematic aspect of it and develop it in the same rigorous way a modern scientific discipline is developed. Since astrology has intrinsic merit I think the efforts will succeed.

 

[biswa]

I believe that IF enough times a coin is tossed (like n= at least 100) you WILL get close to 50:50 of tail or head. It just can't reach 95:5 at all anytime.

This is actually not true mathematically. The probability of getting 95 heads in 100 coin tosses is not zero. In fact it is 5.9 X 10^-23 which though small, is not zero. That is because it follows a binomial distribution. You can input your own numbers into Binomial Distribution: Probability Calculator to verify.

I think if one quotes science, one has to be really precise.

 

[biswa]

- personal views and general knowledge question only -
------------------------------------------------------------​

I am not a very great believer in astrology predictions and stuff but then like most of us i do take a look at the predictions whenever i am bored or happen to come across via email or in newspaper.

According to the English Astrology my Sun Sign is Aries. Simple and straightforward.

According to the Rasi palans that appear in magazines and websites, Aries is Mesha rasi in tamil.
But as per my mom and the astrologer (during my marriage) i belong to Vrishaba rasi as my star falls under Vrishaba rasi. Now this translates into Taurus in english.

I am aware there are differences in the Indian Astrology vs English Astrology. But for a layman and an occasional reader of these predictions, should i be overly worried about this conflicting signs or just ignore and read what i know?

i.e. in my case, Aries.

Would be great if someone can clarify this.

Mr. Praveen, my simple 2 cents is that Indian astrology works (only when practised by rigorous, scientific people) and Western doesn't. Indian astrology is more precise and individualized - it requires your exact time and place of birth. So newspaper predictions are not very useful.

When done right, Indian astrology can actually predict some of those low probability events that Mr. Yamaka mentioned. I have actually seen it happen with my own eyes.

 

[Yamaka]

This is actually not true mathematically. The probability of getting 95 heads in 100 coin tosses is not zero. In fact it is 5.9 X 10^-23 which though small, is not zero. That is because it follows a binomial distribution. You can input your own numbers into Binomial Distribution: Probability Calculator to verify.

I think if one quotes science, one has to be really precise.

Hi Biswa:

Please explain how your figure is different from zero to our readers, so that they can appreciate the materiality of your good argument! Lol.

In Science also there is what's called "rounding off" to a meaningful value!

Good try, anyway.

Cheers.

 

[KRS]

Dear Sri Yamaka,

Let me address your concerns about vedic astrology wrt your wife's relative.

But first let me say something about Sri Sangom Ji's post wrt to myself. I do not predict for my close family. Close family means my immediate family, that includes my wife, my children. my grand children, my brother and sister and my mother. I use their horoscopes and events in their life as a teaching tool. There is a reason for this. If my grand parents are living, and they are not, I would have included them in the above group.

However I freely predict for relatives not mentioned above, and friends and acquaintances referred to me by my family and relatives and friends. In my life time, I must have made perhaps more than 1000 seminal predictions, and to my astonishment, probably about 70% of them have come true. I can not explain why, based on any scientific basis.

Now coming back to your issue. Astrology is more like medicine than any other science. In that respect, it is more of an art than science. It is because, there are myriads of variables, and each variable has differing strength and influence on the prediction - same as diagnosis in medicine, given various symptoms. Wrong diagnosis are made all the time. Do you then reject medicine as a valid discipline?

I do not predict matching, precisely because I do not trust the matching criteria and the numerical points assigned to it. The part of matching horoscopes is completely avoided by me, because of my firm belief that humans can not overcome their assigned Karma in this life. Plus, I do not agree with the scales of importance and assigned numerical strengths to the matching process, because they have been changing over time.

Despite the matching, which does not look at individual dasa balas, one can very easily see the effects on one's married life. In other words, one can look at matching criteria and approve a union, but the individual horoscopes may tell a different story and I believe in the latter.

So, my question is to you is this: Would you say that 3 doctors that diagnosed a person with one decease and the patient dies, and you condemn modern medicine?


This is exactly what you are doing with astrology, especially because you deem it unworthy of scientific inquiry.

I agree with Sri Sangom Ji's take on this.

Regards,
KRS

 

[sarang]

Astrology is also called as the science of tendencies (like, say, meteorology) by b v raman. Intuition, skill, knowledge and ability to wade through a big array of rules are all important in making a reliable prediction. A genuine astrologer will also prescribe pariharams for minimising ill effects.

A dozen of people known to me have died of cancer, despite assurances from the doctors of a successful cure. Of course, the cause of death is always not cancer, but pneumonia, failure of inherent defense mechanism. It is the proverbial case of 'operation is success, but patient is no more'.

Art Buchwald (funny column writer) spent the last days of his life in a hospice; he refused to undergo dialysis when both his kidneys failed. The doctors warned that he will not survive even for a week. He lived for over six months without the treatment.

Any way, whether astrology is a science or not, the book stores are filled with '2012 predictions' for the individual, family, love partners, career guidance and what not. 70% of the publications are of western origin.