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The Ashkenazim of India

prasad1

Active member
Over at The American, Lazar Berman has a fascinating story about the high proportion of Jewish Nobel Prize winners in the sciences, a subject that has also been written about by AEI’s Charles Murray. In passing, Berman mentions how, relative to its population of 1.1 billion people, India has produced few Nobelists—between six and eight depending on how you count.

In itself, this is hardly surprising for a poor country yet to achieve universal literacy. Drill down further, however, and you come upon an obscure factoid mentioned by the historian Patrick French in his book India: A Portrait. Three of the four Indians or persons of Indian origin who have won a science Nobel come from a community said to number under 2 million people—Brahmins from Tamil Nadu. They include C. V. Raman (physics, 1930), Subrahmanyan Chandrasekar (physics, 1983), and Venkatraman Ramakrishnan (chemistry, 2009). The odd man out: Punjab-born Hargobind Khorana, who won a Nobel for medicine in 1968. The tiny Tamil Brahmin community also accounts for Viswanathan Anand, India’s only world chess champion, and the mathematical genius Srinivasa Ramanujan.

Needless to say, there are perfectly reasonable non-genetic explanations that can explain this peculiar preponderance. For one, Brahmin priests have a tradition of literacy that goes back to antiquity. For much of recorded history, they more or less monopolized traditional education, which gave them, and their descendants, a big leg up when Indians took to modern education under the British. But this still doesn’t explain why only Tamil Brahmins, and not their Bengali, Maharashtrian, or Uttar Pradesh counterparts, stand out in this manner.

In India, public discussion of this subject is more or less verboten. Caste is a touchy subject, and any such debate would likely devolve quickly into an exercise in caste chauvinism and name calling. Nonetheless, maybe it’s time for scientists to study the over-achieving Tamil Brahmin community with a view towards determining how much of its success in math, music, and science can be credited to nurture and how much to nature. Until then, it’s intriguing to think of Tamil Brahmins as the Ashkenazim of India.

 
I believe achievements should not be measured in terms of nobel prizes or accomplishments in science alone. Goodness is a higher aspect than intelligence. I mean true goodness which is goodness at any cost. It will dwarf the level of intelligence required to win a Nobel prize.

My point is we are not focussing enough on the right things. All humans have equal capacity for goodness. I believe that is very evenly distributed among human population. We not only ignore it but also treat it as a liability. It needs to be nurtured a lot lot more and protected for it to take roots. But everything in our society is geared to pull it down.

Sad reality.
 
I believe achievements should not be measured in terms of nobel prizes or accomplishments in science alone. Goodness is a higher aspect than intelligence. I mean true goodness which is goodness at any cost. It will dwarf the level of intelligence required to win a Nobel prize.

My point is we are not focussing enough on the right things. All humans have equal capacity for goodness. I believe that is very evenly distributed among human population. We not only ignore it but also treat it as a liability. It needs to be nurtured a lot lot more and protected for it to take roots. But everything in our society is geared to pull it down.

Sad reality.
I got to agree with you.
Scientific based measurement of IQ might seem higher in certain groups of people due to a specialized life style which gets transmitted from generation to generation and also conducive environment BUT actual Intelligence is the ability to align with the Universal Intelligence- Consciousness Complex...this does not need a high so called IQ most of the times because it by passes the intellectualization process and is intuition based.

Thats why we find many scientists though very very intelligent but lacking insight in their findings and cause imbalance in nature.

For eg, testing bombs and missiles is just not a single mushroom cloud or and undersea testing is just a single blast.

These testing disturb the balance of nature and undersea testing could affect marine life and the inherent navigation ability of marine creatures.
But scientists might not want to think of the state of balance because they are only aware and focussed on the physical world.

This is why we messed up the world when we are goal oriented instead of being equilibrium aligned.
 
I got to agree with you.
Scientific based measurement of IQ might seem higher in certain groups of people due to a specialized life style which gets transmitted from generation to generation and also conducive environment BUT actual Intelligence is the ability to align with the Universal Intelligence- Consciousness Complex...this does not need a high so called IQ most of the times because it by passes the intellectualization process and is intuition based.

Thats why we find many scientists though very very intelligent but lacking insight in their findings and cause imbalance in nature.

For eg, testing bombs and missiles is just not a single mushroom cloud or and undersea testing is just a single blast.

These testing disturb the balance of nature and undersea testing could affect marine life and the inherent navigation ability of marine creatures.
But scientists might not want to think of the state of balance because they are only aware and focussed on the physical world.

This is why we messed up the world when we are goal oriented instead of being equilibrium aligned.
Well said Renuka!
 
Sometimes when I see the behaviour of animals and a display of higher qualities but I see them being ill treated by humans I feel like saying, my dear fellow beings, it is ironical but welcome to the world of animal instincts!
 
Sometimes when I see the behaviour of animals and a display of higher qualities but I see them being ill treated by humans I feel like saying, my dear fellow beings, it is ironical but welcome to the world of animal instincts!
Again I agree with you.
We feel animals are instict based, but in reality they are in tune with nature and its consciousness hence they have higher ability to sense disasters of nature.

If we observe tribal people, they are more in tune with nature.
Their intuition is higher.

Modern men lost this ability as he learnt to intellectualize that " I am the doer"

Tribal men flow with nature.
They dont cause imbalance.

Thats why I wonder why at times religious texts use the word animal qualities as something bad.

I feel its human qualities that is the imbalanced one.
In a way, we spend all our lives sharpening our intellect when in reality that is just the greatest delusion that its needed to navigate the spiritual world.
 
Dear Renuka,

My intuition is animals are more in direct touch with the spiritual world and have a very well developed intuition and I am in total agreement with you. The mind is not present and they are not subject to laws of karma. They are here as a part of the system that dispenses karma to humans just like plants and all other sentient and even insentient beings.

Cruelty to them is a great karmic sin especially when one's dharma does not allow it as in killing of animals for food.
 
I believe that more complex the self becomes the less subtle or spiritual it becomes and it has to struggle to regain spirituality. In that sense a virus can be said to be among the most in sync with spiritual reality and so even a great dispenser of karma.

What do you think Renuka?
 
I believe that more complex the self becomes the less subtle or spiritual it becomes and it has to struggle to regain spirituality. In that sense a virus can be said to be among the most in sync with spiritual reality and so even a great dispenser of karma.

What do you think Renuka?
Well, as strange as it sounds I would agree with you.
We humans have over estimated ourselves.
 
Think like Paramatma. If you were to select a community or more for the upkeep of the entire world, keep super important intonations alive for centuries for a higher purpose, selfless, non-greedy, very good in habits, moderate in kaama, krodha, etc,,less "laukika" interests, extremely pious, non-athiests, overall good level of intelligence, have to maintain a structure with traditions, a society, allow modernization, yet bound to their roots, chittha shuddhi, more candidates applying for Moksha to help Him out, Which two communities would you choose for overall to pass on more revealing knowledge & guidance? Not saying the others do not match up. All I'm saying is these communities possessed the rigor to achieve more intuition...

Here is a question for you Dr. Renuka & others...
Beginning times of creation...
There are only Thirty children in the World. All having similar propeties, height , weight, intelligence etc..
Say girls outnumber boys. You are a teacher with enough wisdom. They are approaching you & asking you what should they do? What would be your instructions to them? what would be your teaching? What would be your guidance? How will you even approach on any knowledge? Let's see if we measure up today as that teacher :)
 
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Think like Paramatma. If you were to select a community or more for the upkeep of the entire world, keep super important intonations alive for centuries for a higher purpose, selfless, non-greedy, very good in habits, moderate in kaama, krodha, etc,,less "laukika" interests, extremely pious, non-athiests, overall good level of intelligence, have to maintain a structure with traditions, a society, allow modernization, yet bound to their roots, chittha shuddhi, more candidates applying for Moksha to help Him out, Which two communities would you choose for overall to pass on more revealing knowledge & guidance? Not saying the others do not match up. All I'm saying is these communities possessed the rigor to achieve more intuition...

Here is a question for you Dr. Renuka & others...
Beginning times of creation...
There are only Thirty children in the World. All having similar propeties, height , weight, intelligence etc..
Say girls outnumber boys. You are a teacher with enough wisdom. They are approaching you & asking you what should they do? What would be your instructions to them? what would be your teaching? What would be your guidance? How will you even approach on any knowledge? Let's see if we measure up today as that teacher :)
Ok..since girls outnumber boys so my first concern is continuation of species ..so no choice , polygamy has to be practiced and basic survival skills need to be taught like tribal ability to hunt and do some farming.
They need to be taught to observe nature and not create imbalance.
Tribals are overall more connected to consciousness than modern humans.

Btw none of us can think like Paramatma.
We are mere mortals.
 
Endeavouring to think like paramatma. I would separate them as two beacons of knowledge one which I would teach thrive on change and the other on harmony and balance. I would pair a boy with each girl till all the pairs are formed. These are so separated assuming their penchant is change. The remaining girls whose penchant is harmony would form the other group.

I would ask the first group to explore the world by experimenting what piques them in the external reality. I would suggest the other group to focus inward and get the knowledge as it comes.

My advice to both would be truth is one and reality is one. It is ok to have different ways but keep in mind all lead to the same truths. I would say to the first group don't trample your conscience. It will hurt you in the long run. I will say to the other group have a healthy ego or it is going to hurt you sooner or later.

In the end you will understand the other and realize that truth is one.
 
Think like Paramatma. If you were to select a community or more for the upkeep of the entire world, keep super important intonations alive for centuries for a higher purpose, selfless, non-greedy, very good in habits, moderate in kaama, krodha, etc,,less "laukika" interests, extremely pious, non-athiests, overall good level of intelligence, have to maintain a structure with traditions, a society, allow modernization, yet bound to their roots, chittha shuddhi, more candidates applying for Moksha to help Him out, Which two communities would you choose for overall to pass on more revealing knowledge & guidance? Not saying the others do not match up. All I'm saying is these communities possessed the rigor to achieve more intuition...

Here is a question for you Dr. Renuka & others...
Beginning times of creation...
There are only Thirty children in the World. All having similar propeties, height , weight, intelligence etc..
Say girls outnumber boys. You are a teacher with enough wisdom. They are approaching you & asking you what should they do? What would be your instructions to them? what would be your teaching? What would be your guidance? How will you even approach on any knowledge? Let's see if we measure up today as that teacher :)
I agree Sir that the Ashkenazis and Tamil Brahmins have real accomplishments. But frankly whatever others may think the tamil brahmin community is a lot more evolved. The accomplishments in science may galore for the Ashkenazis but that is s poor indicator of mental maturity. It has proved to have negative correlation. Tamil Brahmins sadly are moving in that direction too. Unless the rot is stemmed soon, it will be the end of brahmin values as we know them.

This brings me to the meat of my point. All seem the same now. Brahmins cannot flaunt anything different now. If Brahmins can so quickly go downhill there is a possibility of elevation in others also happening because I feel the potential is the same for all. It is a matter of right orientation.
 
Nice answers. Yes, We can think like Paramatma for our situation & our limited knowledge. You can always ask what would He do in our situation. In a way, you invite your antaratmin to engage in the situation… the inner voice etc.


OK. Awesome.
-Introduction to loss-

Time progresses.
Children are growing, going about their lives..
One of the pair, Or, in a polygamous situation- a partner-succumbs to the injuries from hunting
& dies.
The partner feels beaten down, hates everything
Feels jealous looking at other pairs
( see the source of hate & jealousy 😜)

What will you tell the partner?
What will you tell others ?
They have never dealt with loss before.
Never felt jealous. Never hated anything before.
What will your words be?
 
Sravna...I find it a little not so "accurate" to feel that we should " think" like Paramatma.

As far as we know we as humans usually try to humanize Paramatma because of our limited perception and everything we relate to is a comparative one.

For eg the post about by Ganantharaman Ji was sort of asking the preference of Paramatma as who should be a better choice for the mentioned functions stated in the post.

As we know in the Gita it states clearly states about the realized one having samadarshinah( equal vision)..now just imagine..if a realized human himself has samadarshinah why would Paramatma function in a format that has preferences?

As you would be knowing subtle energies function in a random pattern which apparently appears to be " chaotic" as in no fixed pattern yet its constantly updating and evolving and orientating towards balance.

So try to imagine Paramatma?
Wouldnt Paramatma be beyond the subtle energies and totally beyond our perception?

For us an apple might differ from an orange and one might favor one over because of our physical senses and also preferences.

For the subtle realm both the apple and orange are just the five elements.

So imagine Paramatma?
What exists at the state of Paramatma?
Only Paramatma isnt it?
So how can we humanize Paramatma by saying to try to think like Paramatma?

We humans have thought waves forming patterns on our minds and less disc space.

A yogi has cleared up his disc space and his mind is but a mirror that reflects consciousness.

So imagine Paramatma?
Is Paramatma like a mere mortal who needs to " think"?

Paramatma isnt limited like us.

We humans seldom have the ability to leave ourselves out of the equation hence we might feel we are holy or chosen or prefered or cursed or doomed.
Thats just our ahamkara painting shades of highs and lows in our minds.

Intellectualization is not always connected to spirituality.
A high IQ might not always be connected to spirituality.

Rare is a person who has both high IQ and functions in the mode of spirituality and even rarer is one who actually reaches Paramatma.

Shree Krishna clearly states that among the thousands that strive to know Him, hardly one truly knows Him.
 
Dear Renuka,

Yes it is impossible obviously to think like paramatma. But I was logically formulating the broad principles of how attainment of knowledge given the two fundamental manifestations we have seen in humans on the attainment of knowledge one being looking inwards and the other exploring the external reality. I saw in them God's design for attainment of knowledge.

I am not saying I am proposing anything fundamental but only trying to decode and discover and derive. Isn't that a human endeavour?
 
Renuka,

I have learnt that even though people talk of fairness, especially some people want only to control others. Their talk of fairness is sheer hypocrisy meant to mislead people. Now people are mostly in the know about it and come to accept and even endorse it because of the power wielded by such people.

An avatar and a very strong and ferocious one is overdue.
 
Isn't Paramatma in your heart too? Yes, we don't reach him everyday on our Mundane things - but sometimes he will pitch in, guide you with an inner thought, a voice...If everything is Brahman then it is fair to assume the 'chith' in 'achith' form is inside you too correct? Intelligence is a great gift. Some kill for that one thing. Are we using our intelligence & decision-making capabilities wisely? Yes, pray all you want...nothing wrong in that. We have also had enough of that for the past few thousand years. How should we be Guided in modern times? Are you potty trained or not :-)? Are you able to take on More? Are you able to wear The One's shoes? Or, are you able to kick with them :-) Like Bhirugu did..How well would you use your powers & gift. That matters. Coming back to our thirty kids, There is a first time for them for every experience. Love, Loss, Happiness, etc. All you are doing is empathizing - putting yourself in a 'Guide' mode for those kids. Of course, Paramatma is beyond our Mundane world, Beyond everything. But, we were also kids( talking of humanity), went about our ways. We have sustained so far. It is not possible without 'some' guidance in our infancy correct? The first one that went with that role has to be Paramatma correct? I'm sure intelligence & your current state of Mind after refinement over centuries will help. There will come a time when those thirty kids need to step up & guide some other kids in some other planet going through their infancy. Trust me. So, now coming back to the question what would you do to explain loss?
 
Nice answers. Yes, We can think like Paramatma for our situation & our limited knowledge. You can always ask what would He do in our situation. In a way, you invite your antaratmin to engage in the situation… the inner voice etc.


OK. Awesome.
-Introduction to loss-

Time progresses.
Children are growing, going about their lives..
One of the pair, Or, in a polygamous situation- a partner-succumbs to the injuries from hunting
& dies.
The partner feels beaten down, hates everything
Feels jealous looking at other pairs
( see the source of hate & jealousy 😜)

What will you tell the partner?
What will you tell others ?
They have never dealt with loss before.
Never felt jealous. Never hated anything before.
What will your words be?
Missed this post. Loss may mean different things to different types of people. The advise would be in accordance with that. The spiritual kids do not see the perishing of the body as a loss. The partner is part of their self. The loss would be taken in that spirit. The materialistically oriented mind may get negative emotions at the loss. Something else has to replace that loss and divert their attention. I would explain to them nothing is permanent in this world and one has to learn that change is the norm.

My advise to the spiritual kid would be your partner lives with you. External events cannot change it. Loss happens only at the external level. Nothing changes at the inner level.
 
Life sees both ups and downs. It is the norm. When you see a down take heart that laws ensure up is on the horizon.

Then there is the ultimate trick to be on the high forever. Be good to others and not do harm especially intentionally. Then you sync with ultimate reality which is always on a high
 
ok. I can accept that.
On the correctness of 'highness', There is no high or low. that depends on perspective. If you say the heavens are among the stars,, A being in an Alpha Centauri planetary system, will ask his son to gaze up & look at our Sun & say " There lies the heaven, child...There is the heaven" We are in Heaven too... :).

SO what is high & what is low? What's the measure?
 
The true measure of high and low is one of balance. The more you balance self interests with those of others you are more on a spiritual or higher plane and vice versa.

It is not a physical measure.
 

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