the attack on singer Chinmayee in the net

[Raju1949]

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Thanks for the support for my post. By shutting our eyes brahmin baiting will not go away. we shold be prepared to fight like other communities

 

[prasad1]

Only a friend points out if your slip is showing or if your pant is unzipped. Do not take it as a criticism. An enemy would care less and laugh at you.
So in the community someone points out the error in your logic, or differs from you it need not be taken in the wrong way. Unless of course you have wrong understanding.

So questioning ones motive only sharpens your side of the argument, because it makes you think.
Generally when we express an opinion, we have not analysed all aspects, the forum brings out other aspects of your point. That gives you an opportunity to strengthen your case.

 

[sangom]

I would not have normally written anything on this topic but when I found that Kum. amala states that this Chinmayee is an estranged relative of hers and in one of the web pages there is a mention of "single mother" (I am unable to locate it now, sorry) and the wikipedia is silent about her father, I feel that something is not quite alright in that family.

Since this person Chinmayee is in the cinema world, there will be many gossips floating about and many of them will contain a bit of truth camouflaged by a lot of imaginary details. Possibly the persecutors might have got some idea about this person and then they might have thought that they can irresponsibly go on tweeting.

Unless we get a fuller picture of the matter, I feel it will not be correct for this forum to spend its time and energy on this topic and to that extent, I tend to agree with Shri prasad1, whatever the ground realities in TN be (and I have some good idea about it too.)

 

[கால பைரவன்]

So questioning ones motive only sharpens your side of the argument, because it makes you think. .

Yes, However a person who questions another member's motive should provide a reason for it. Otherwise, the questioner will come across as prejudiced.

 

[prasad1]

Yes, However a person who questions another member's motive should provide a reason for it. Otherwise, the questioner will come across as prejudiced.

Sir,
By addressing a comment to me by name, i feel you expect the conversation to continue.
I do not do "kumble ode Govinda". I use my intellect to decide my position. I am not going to support a Murdrer just because that person is Brahmin. Let the legal system take care of legal problems. If the legal system fails, and I have social forces to use and support, I will do that.

When Bobby Jindal was contesting for Governor of Louisiana, lot of Indians supported him, and I was pressured to support him because he is of Indian Origin. I refused to go along, as he was anti-hindu, and did not care to support any India specific legislation. Just because he was PIO, I do not have to support.

Similarly I do not have to support a wrong person because they were born Brahmin, against all upstanding human beings.

You might think it prejudiced, but it is logical and right.

You have taken a wrong position of raising it as a brahmin vs non-brahmin issue, when it is purely a personal issue for Chinmayi and her distractors.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

I would not have normally written anything on this topic but when I found that Kum. amala states that this Chinmayee is an estranged relative of hers and in one of the web pages there is a mention of "single mother" (I am unable to locate it now, sorry) and the wikipedia is silent about her father, I feel that something is not quite alright in that family.
Since this person Chinmayee is in the cinema world, there will be many gossips floating about and many of them will contain a bit of truth camouflaged by a lot of imaginary details. Possibly the persecutors might have got some idea about this person and then they might have thought that they can irresponsibly go on tweeting.
Unless we get a fuller picture of the matter, I feel it will not be correct for this forum to spend its time and energy on this topic and to that extent, I tend to agree with Shri prasad1, whatever the ground realities in TN be (and I have some good idea about it too.)

Dear Sangomji,
IMO, Chinmayi's family background that you mentioned (that her mother is single) or the fact that she is in Cine field has little to do with this issue. One will be doing an injustice if one allows these facts to cloud his/her judgement on this issue.

In twitter, there is something called hashtag(denoted by #). People try to collect opinion and generate support for a cause by ending a tweet with a hastag and a brief remark (like #ObamaForPresident). The vulgar tweets against Chinmayi are being justified on account of her refusal to support the cause of TN fishermen. According to Chinmayi, she did not oblige the accused on this issue because the hashtag had several unparliamentary tweets against political leaders of India. That is it. Allegations were spread thick and fast against her that she demeaned TN fishermen, that she is anti-tamil etc. Her tweet on reservation long time back was quoted out of context. Vulgar tweets started flowing with hashtag #AsingapattalChinmayi (Meaning Chinmayi is put to shame. In crude tamil, it means something worse!)

Had Chinmayi been from any other community, this would have likely stayed only a personal attack. Because she belongs to brahmin community, the community itself is fair game. That is the ground realty in TN, whether it is agreeable to you or not!

I do not think you need to worry about this forum spending its time and energy on this issue. As is, this issue hardly generated any interest and as you can see members are only too keen in suppressing it, let alone being indifferent.

Of course, a member has every right to ignore/speak for/ speak against any issue at hand. Ironically, if the same freedom had been accorded to Chinmayi, this issue would not have arisen at all!

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Similarly I do not have to support a wrong person because they were born Brahmin, against all upstanding human beings.

You might think it prejudiced, but it is logical and right.

I am sorry you have not understood my POV at all.

When one does not know the facts, there is no need for anyone to either support or oppose.

I said your remarks to the OP were prejudiced because without knowing the facts you suspected him of supporting Chinmayi only because of her Caste.

There is no need to continue this conversation; I get your POV and I hope you understood mine because I am afraid you did not get it before.

 

[prasad1]

Tell me what evidence you have to say:

Of course, a member has every right to ignore/speak for/ speak against any issue at hand. Ironically, if the same freedom had been accorded to Chinmayi, this issue would not have arisen at all!

She had enough clout to get that person tweeting arrested. Which is against the basic right of everyone to express themselves called "freedom of speech".

 

[prasad1]

I am sorry you have not understood my POV at all.

When one does not know the facts, there is no need for anyone to either support or oppose.

I said your remarks to the OP were prejudiced because without knowing the facts you suspected him of supporting Chinmayi only because of her Caste.

There is no need to continue this conversation; I get your POV and I hope you understood mine because I am afraid you did not get it before.

This is the original post:

The prompt action by the police in the case of objectionable tweets received by the singer Chinmayee is being criticized saying that the police is acting because Chinmayee is a Brahmin. Many have defended her dtractors also simply because she is a Brahmin. Even Karunanidhi has obliquely commented on this saying that if Kanimozhi were a brahmin she wont be criticized. I beleive brahmins should come forward and support Chinmayee for her courageous action

Where did he state the case? From the op it is clear that he supported Chinmayi only as a Brahmin. Are you reading the same thread?

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Tell me what evidence you have to say:

She had enough clout to get that person tweeting arrested. Which is against the basic right of everyone to express themselves called "freedom of speech".

What I meant was that this whole attack on her started because she refused to tweet with a hashtag # supporting TN fishermen. This would have been a non-issue if her freedom to not tweet about it was recognized and respected.

I think the "freedom of speech" does not include threatening anyone of r**ing or m**d**ing them. Perhaps you differ!

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Where did he state the case?

It does not mean that the case does not exist. There is a difference.

That is why I said it is okay to request more facts but wrong to assume or take a prejudiced view.

Anyway Prasadji, I know we are never going to agree on this issue. Let's leave it here. I am sorry if I have offended you.

 

[Raju1949]

I raised the issue originally because Chinmayee's caste was mentioned in the attack. Even Gnani,writing in the Kalki magazine mentions her caste and because she is a brahmin she can not oppose reservation. She has every right to oppose reservation. Her being brought up by her mother and her father deserting them are not relevant . She was attacked because she opposed reservations. She pointed out the case of a brahmin girl not getting admission in spite of scoring 99.9% . If we shy away from issues we will be isolated. There are no authentic voices other than Cho to speak for the community.

 

[sangom]

Dear Sangomji,
IMO, Chinmayi's family background that you mentioned (that her mother is single) or the fact that she is in Cine field has little to do with this issue. One will be doing an injustice if one allows these facts to cloud his/her judgement on this issue.

In twitter, there is something called hashtag(denoted by #). People try to collect opinion and generate support for a cause by ending a tweet with a hastag and a brief remark (like #ObamaForPresident). The vulgar tweets against Chinmayi are being justified on account of her refusal to support the cause of TN fishermen. According to Chinmayi, she did not oblige the accused on this issue because the hashtag had several unparliamentary tweets against political leaders of India. That is it. Allegations were spread thick and fast against her that she demeaned TN fishermen, that she is anti-tamil etc. Her tweet on reservation long time back was quoted out of context. Vulgar tweets started flowing with hashtag #AsingapattalChinmayi (Meaning Chinmayi is put to shame. In crude tamil, it means something worse!)

Had Chinmayi been from any other community, this would have likely stayed only a personal attack. Because she belongs to brahmin community, the community itself is fair game. That is the ground realty in TN, whether it is agreeable to you or not!

I do not think you need to worry about this forum spending its time and energy on this issue. As is, this issue hardly generated any interest and as you can see members are only too keen in suppressing it, let alone being indifferent.

Of course, a member has every right to ignore/speak for/ speak against any issue at hand. Ironically, if the same freedom had been accorded to Chinmayi, this issue would not have arisen at all!

Dear Shri KB sir,

I googled yesterday about Chinmayee and got to read a number of web pages. In one among them it was mentioned that she (Chinmayee) has been in the habit of changing (erazing) her tweets. So, I get a doubt whether she had originally written something which could justifiably be seen as anti-Sri Lankan Tamils or anti-Tamil.

Anyway, the issue before us is whether TBF as a forum should immediately express its unanimous solidarity with Kum. Chinmayee or whether we can afford to wait for some more info about the whole episode. I say so because these attacking tweeters do not seem to have targetted any other Tabra celebrity or even non-celebrity in twitter, facebook, etc., and even in my personal knowledge there are many tabra girls and women who are very active in such SN sites and I have seen them write utterly foolish/inconvenient remarks also at times. Definitely, these attacking fellows could have made mincemeat of those women too, I feel. Why is it that only one Chinmayee is targetted by them? Has there been any complaint from any of the young girls or older housewives within our circle (i.e., tabra circle) about their being subjected to such nasty comments by some hoodlums? To my knowledge, no.

I feel this is the salient point which we have to see.

 

[sangom]

I raised the issue originally because Chinmayee's caste was mentioned in the attack. Even Gnani,writing in the Kalki magazine mentions her caste and because she is a brahmin she can not oppose reservation. She has every right to oppose reservation. Her being brought up by her mother and her father deserting them are not relevant . She was attacked because she opposed reservations. She pointed out the case of a brahmin girl not getting admission in spite of scoring 99.9% . If we shy away from issues we will be isolated. There are no authentic voices other than Cho to speak for the community.

Shri Raju sir,

I find that you joined this Forum a few months back. As a member for a longer time, may I say that this issue of reservations and how it has adversely affected the Brahmins has been discussed in such powerful and detailed debates/discussions in various threads in this Forum, that one more discussion is not going to make any change anywhere except to the size of the archives of this Forum. Do you sincerely think that our discussions here will be seen by anyone in authority? I say No.

Now, as to the vulgar comments and attacks in her twitter, it is any way a criminal offence and the culprits will be punished. So, the best thing is that we do not approach such matters in a காளை பெத்துது, கயறெடு (kāḷai pettutu, kayaṟeṭu)_the bull has calved; get a string to tie the calf, attitude. This my humble submission.

 

[Raju1949]

There was a mention that other Tamil Brahmin women in the net are not attacked. The reason could be that they are not famous . Chinmayee being famous will draw attention. This in no way minimizes the gravity of the attack and the targetting of our community. We shut our eyes at our peril

 

[Raju1949]

Dear Sangom Sir,
I see your point about the fruitlessness of all our discussions regarding the reservations. But I feel it is our duty to find a modus vivendi like asking for proportinate reservations for all communities so that at least the top Brahmin girl or boy gets in. If we shy away from all this our future generations will suffer. I feel since our immediate forefathers took the easy way out by leaving TN or even India we are in thsi sorry state . The Muslim community in TN is not numerically strong but se their influence. We did not forge alliances with the Brahmins in other parts of India like the Yadavas are doing even in TN

 

[sangom]

Dear Sangom Sir,
I see your point about the fruitlessness of all our discussions regarding the reservations. But I feel it is our duty to find a modus vivendi like asking for proportinate reservations for all communities so that at least the top Brahmin girl or boy gets in. If we shy away from all this our future generations will suffer. I feel since our immediate forefathers took the easy way out by leaving TN or even India we are in thsi sorry state . The Muslim community in TN is not numerically strong but se their influence. We did not forge alliances with the Brahmins in other parts of India like the Yadavas are doing even in TN

Shri Raju,

I see that you were not around here when all these points and, probably, all possible points having even remote connection with the issue of reservation were discussed, time and again, in this forum; it even resulted in one of our very beloved and respected veteran quitting the forum - though he returned after some time but has now taken permanent leave due to differences in views.

I would humbly request you to spend some time and search the archives. Otherwise a fresh round of discussion will be like the Tamil saying பழைய குருடீ கதவைத் திறடீ, at least for the old timers around here. Of course, the newcomers can have a fresh round and I have no objection at all to that, please.

 

[Amirtha]

Shri Sangom

பழைய குருடீ கதவைத் திறடீ

I couldn't stop laughing at the above funny proverb. It has been a long time I heard this. My mum used to say this. Another favourite of my mum was நாடு தாண்டி வரா மூடு பல்லக்கிலே.

Kind Regards

 

[mskmoorthy]

This may be the link that Sri Sangom refers to in his post http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/chit-chat/10224-attack-singer-chinmayee-net-3.html#post163972

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/7830-mitr-my-friend-2.html#post113501

I also plead that we not discuss this topic any further - It is not a sign of weakness - but a sign of magnanimity

 

[sangom]

Shri Sangom



I couldn't stop laughing at the above funny proverb. It has been a long time I heard this. My mum used to say this. Another favourite of my mum was நாடு தாண்டி வரா மூடு பல்லக்கிலே.

Kind Regards

Smt. Amirtha,

The saying பழைய குருடீ கதவைத் திறடீ is from one of the myths - either Sivakavi or Thiruneelakantar, and my memory is the former. But books and references may take the easy path of attributing this to Kalameghappulavar, the legendary personality. The belief is that when the poet obtained God's boon and started making wealth, he gave everything to three sisters (courtesans?) who became very rich, proud and haughty due to that. The poet goes on an all Tamilnad journey and when he again touches his old village, he goes to the three sisters' mansion and knocks. They don't open the door and so the poet calls out பழைய குருடீ கதவைத் திறடீ at which they regain their sight due to divine grace.

Though this the cine version, the normal usage refers to the poet going on to various costlier courtesans when he becomes rich, but returns to the old person when he again becomes poor. But how he could know that his old acquaintance had become blind in the meanwhile, is not clear to me. Today, this is used more to depict people forgetting their roots, taking to ostentatious life styles but returning to their old and humble ways once they again become poor.

Viewed in this strict sense, my quote was inappropriate, but I wrote it for emphasizing that we probably will have to go through the same types of points, arguments and counter-arguments. If you feel that should be removed, I shall certainly do so.

Will you kindly give the sense behind the one you cite நாடு தாண்டி வரா மூடு பல்லக்கிலே?

 

[Amirtha]

Shri Sangom

Viewed in this strict sense, my quote was inappropriate, but I wrote it for emphasizing that we probably will have to go through the same types of points, arguments and counter-arguments. If you feel that should be removed, I shall certainly do so.

Certainly not. You gave me good laugh and brought back lot of memory of my mother. (She is no more, I was pretty young when she died) Thank you.

Will you kindly give the sense behind the one you cite நாடு தாண்டி வரா மூடு பல்லக்கிலே?

All I remember is, while I was growing up in my village, I used to go and play with my friends and come home only to eat. So she used to say that to me once I got back home. I used to laugh at it and do the same thing again. However, I'll enquire with my relative and I'll get back to you with the meaning.

Kind Regards