The Ethics of Ending Life: Euthanasia and Assisted Suicide.

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

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http://www.csahq.org/pdf/bulletin/ethics_61_2.pdf

The Ethics of Ending Life: Euthanasia and Assisted Suicide.


Ethical Questions in Euthanasia and Assisted Suicide.

This is a monograph published on the net about the above subject which may be of interest to the elderly.

Despite a widespread belief that untreated pain is the most worrisome problem for patients at end-of-life, repeated studies show that this is not so.


In fact, satisfactory end-of-life pain control is achieved in all but a small minority of patients. One study even suggests that oncology patients who are experiencing pain are actually less likely to find PAS or EU acceptable.

The most prominent concerns for patients at end-of-life are loss of autonomy and loss of dignity.

I do hope India would allow Physician-assisted suicide (PAS) and Euthanasia.

 

[sangom]

http://www.csahq.org/pdf/bulletin/ethics_61_2.pdf

The Ethics of Ending Life: Euthanasia and Assisted Suicide.


Ethical Questions in Euthanasia and Assisted Suicide.

This is a monograph published on the net about the above subject which may be of interest to the elderly.





I do hope India would allow Physician-assisted suicide (PAS) and Euthanasia.

My sincere feeling is that nobody has the right to end his/her own life. Hence I am clearly against PAS and euthanasia.

 

[prasad1]

I feel that we do not know enough to make a decision yet. Personally I have medical directive not to resuscitate me in case of emergency. I also have discussed with my friends and family that I do not want to be maintained by artificial means (on permanent life support). I have also willed my organs for harvest (I hope the hospitals are hungry to declare my end).

So I am against PAS.

 

[P.J.]

Easiest one can do is to donate 'Eyes' after death; I have already pledged that.

Please see my thread posted earlier:

http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/general-discussions/10340-i-firmly-believe-organ-donation.html

 

[Nara]

...My sincere feeling is that nobody has the right to end his/her own life. Hence I am clearly against PAS and euthanasia.

I can understand if you wish adopt this standard to yourself, but why do you wish to impose your feeling on others? In as much as I respect your wish to abjure euthanasia am I not entitled to the same respect if I wish to adopt it for whatever reason?

The ancient Tamils had the custom of வடக்கிருத்தல் that involved fasting to death. When someone feels it is time to leave they simply sat facing North and fasted until they fell dead. The great Chandragupta Maurya was supposed to have died this way.

 

[P.J.]

one of my distant relative, an old lady of about 83 years, refused to undergo any treatment for her illness; she had swallowing difficulty , and she refused to take any intake through her veins also till her death.

My sister who was suffering from a sort of Blood Cancer, refused to take any treatment, except pain killers; she said, i know that no treatment can cure me, i want to end my misery earlier!!

 

[sangom]

I can understand if you wish adopt this standard to yourself, but why do you wish to impose your feeling on others? In as much as I respect your wish to abjure euthanasia am I not entitled to the same respect if I wish to adopt it for whatever reason?

The ancient Tamils had the custom of வடக்கிருத்தல் that involved fasting to death. When someone feels it is time to leave they simply sat facing North and fasted until they fell dead. The great Chandragupta Maurya was supposed to have died this way.

Well, dear Nara, I was not trying to "impose my feeling" on others; may be my command over English is highly unsatisfactory and there are more accurate ways of expressing what my view is on these two topics, viz., PAS & euthanasia. But then, will it not become, again, imposing my will/view/opinion etc. on others? So, you kindly tell me what I should have written correctly in order to express the fact that I do not want to have either, but without "imposing my want" on others?

That apart, did my post give any indication that I am against anybody else adopting or even advocating both these?

To sum up, you may have to tolerate very poor quality of English from people like myself, in a Forum like this. Otherwise, membership or the permission to post should be restricted to only those who pass eligibility standards.

The custom of வடக்கிருத்தல் to which you refer was not an ancient Tamil custom but a jain religious belief, that by fasting to death, a person gets a glorious life after death. The legend has it that Chandragupta Maurya got converted to Jainism by his favourite queen and Bhadrabahu, a jain saint, came to south to fast unto death in Sravana Belagola.

Tamil culture and beliefs, I think, did not support such practice.

 

[Nara]

...Well, dear Nara, I was not trying to "impose my feeling" on others; may be my command over English is highly unsatisfactory and there are more accurate ways of expressing what my view is on these two topics, viz., PAS & euthanasia.

Dear Sangom, you are pulling my leg, nobody in this forum writes more lucidly or with better English than you, so let us first set that aside. The problem must then be misunderstanding on my part. Here is what you wrote,

"My sincere feeling is that nobody has the right to end his/her own life. Hence I am clearly against PAS and euthanasia."
​

I thought by the phrase "nobody has the right" you meant not only you wouldn't do it, but others must not be permitted to do so as well. If you didn't mean it that way then we have no disagreement.

Tamil culture and beliefs, I think, did not support such practice.

I don't think Jain culture and Tamil culture were mutually exclusive. Before the Bhakti era Jainism was a dominant religion in Tamil Nadu and the Tamil culture and Jain culture had a large intersection. It was not only practiced by (Jain) saints, but apparently by warriors as well when they felt insulted in defeat. I remember reading a story in my elementary school about a king opting to rather die than accept water when it was offered to him with the left hand by the guard.

In any case, Tamil or Jain or both, it doesn't matter, self administered euthanasia was practiced in Tamil Nadu, that much is clear.

 

[renuka]

As a doctor I wont do Euthanasia for anyone even if the law permits it.

It is not something I would want to even think about.

It is not easy to be the instrumental cause of death of someone.

 

[mkrishna100]

I don't think Jain culture and Tamil culture were mutually exclusive. Before the Bhakti era Jainism was a dominant religion in Tamil Nadu and the Tamil culture and Jain culture had a large intersection. It was not only practiced by (Jain) saints, but apparently by warriors as well when they felt insulted in defeat. I remember reading a story in my elementary school about a king opting to rather die than accept water when it was offered to him with the left hand by the guard.

In any case, Tamil or Jain or both, it doesn't matter, self administered euthanasia was practiced in Tamil Nadu, that much is clear.

It seems even the great Tamil Chola King Raja Raja Chola died by fasting . I do not know how far this is true but this was conveyed to me by a tour guide in Tanjore when I visited the Tanjore Temple few years back .

 

[krish44]

one of my distant relative, an old lady of about 83 years, refused to undergo any treatment for her illness; she had swallowing difficulty , and she refused to take any intake through her veins also till her death.

My sister who was suffering from a sort of Blood Cancer, refused to take any treatment, except pain killers; she said, i know that no treatment can cure me, i want to end my misery earlier!!

I had a close relative 80plus who saw no purpose in living further and stopped having food and water and died. he had absolutely no ailments. One of my neighbours did the same. there are some strange souls in this world.lucky perhaps they did not have to go thru PAS and EU cycles.

 

[krish44]

As a doctor I wont do Euthanasia for anyone even if the law permits it.

It is not something I would want to even think about.

It is not easy to be the instrumental cause of death of someone.

Jain sadhus put a mask over their nose and mouth in order not to kill insects.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Prayopavesa, or fasting to death, is an acceptable way for a Hindu to end their life in certain circumstances.


Prayopavesa is very different from what most people mean by suicide:

•it's non-violent and uses natural means;

•it's only used when it's the right time for this life to end - when this body has served its purpose and become a burden;

•unlike the suddenness of suicide, prayopavesa is a gradual process, giving ample time for the patient to prepare himself and those around him for his death;

•while suicide is often associated with feelings of frustration, depression, or anger, prayopavesa is associated with feelings of serenity


Prayopavesa is only for people who are fulfilled, who have no desire or ambition left, and no responsibilities remaining in this life. It is really only suitable for elderly ascetics.


Hindu law lays down conditions for prayopavesa:

•inability to perform normal bodily purification

•death appears imminent or the condition is so bad that life's pleasures are nil

•the decision is publicly declared

•the action must be done under community regulation


An example of prayopavesa:


Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami, a Hindu leader born in California, took his own life by prayopavesa in November 2001.


After finding that he had untreatable intestinal cancer the Satguru meditated for several days and then announced that he would accept pain-killing treatment only and would undertake prayopavesa - taking water, but no food.


He died on the 32nd day of his self-imposed fast.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayopavesa

 

[renuka]

May be all those who opted "fasting to death" had an underlying undiagnosed depression that lead to anorexia nervosa and they ended up dead and glorified!

So come to think of it..if you want to be glorified and remembered..first lose you mind and then you become a Saint! LOL

 

[renuka]

Jain sadhus put a mask over their nose and mouth in order not to kill insects.

But they eat curds right?? What about of those lactobacilli they eat in curds?

BTW if we accidentally inhale an insect..the body goes into a violent cough mode and the insect is thrown out!

Actually as a doc I wont do Euthanasia cos I dont want to be instrumental in causing the death of someone by supplying the drugs..needed stuff etc..if a person wants to die he should do it himself without asking anyone any help.

The take home message is 'If anyone wants to die...please dont get anyone else involved in that act"

 

[krish44]

My relative who fasted was not glorified for dying the way he did. . we felt disgusted . He had led a good life enjoying all the worldy pleasures . of course he would have loved to be regarded as a saint

 

[renuka]

I feel some personalities are prone to using "fasting" as a black mail tactic to get what they want to be done all the in the name of Ahimsa

How on earth can Fasting be Ahimsa when it is actually self injuring? That too the "I will fast to death if this does not happen" kind?

Fasting to death is a Rajasic act and surely not Ahimsa!

 

[krish44]

But they eat curds right?? What about of those lactobacilli they eat in curds?

BTW if we accidentally inhale an insect..the body goes into a violent cough mode and the insect is thrown out!

Actually as a doc I wont do Euthanasia cos I dont want to be instrumental in causing the death of someone by supplying the drugs..needed stuff etc..if a person wants to die he should do it himself without asking anyone any help.

The take home message is 'If anyone wants to die...please dont get anyone else involved in that act"

Do jain sadhus take curd . what do they live on.? only curious to know about their food preferences
I appreciate your stand on Euthanasia
I happened to visit Mother Therasas Home in delhi for the old and the dying. you will see commitment at its best from nuns and other attendents keeping them fed and alive

 

[renuka]

My relative who fasted was not glorified for dying the way he did. . we felt disgusted . He had led a good life enjoying all the worldy pleasures . of course he would have loved to be regarded as a saint

May be he was depressed and no one knew it...depression in the elderly often goes undiagnosed and most of the while they seem calm without the classical depression symptoms but they tend to refuse food(a warning sign)

Its always better to take an elderly relative who refuses food to see a doctor..as I said..depression in the elderly is very often missed cos the mindset of people that an old person has lead his/her life and what else do they need?

In fact most widowers cant handle old age as well as widows..many internally yearn for a partner to share what only an aging mind understands.

So this is to all..if you have an elderly relative who does not want to eat..dont think he/she is being religious and on the way to Sainthood etc..just take him/her to a doctor and find out he cause of the anorexia..we already have enough saints in history that went undiagnosed!

 

[krish44]

I feel some personalities are prone to using "fasting" as a black mail tactic to get what they want to be done all the in the name of Ahimsa

How on earth can Fasting be Ahimsa when it is actually self injuring? That too the "I will fast to death if this does not happen" kind?

Fasting to death is a Rajasic act and surely not Ahimsa!

tell this to anna hazare. he may not actually appreciate your comments .he is feeliing a bit lost out as kejriwal has deserted him after four days of fasting and finding it meaningless.mahatma gandhi gave fasting respectability frequently resorting to it.

 

[renuka]

tell this to anna hazare. he may not actually appreciate your comments .he is feeliing a bit lost out as kejriwal has deserted him after four days of fasting and finding it meaningless.mahatma gandhi gave fasting respectability frequently resorting to it.

LOL! I kept names out of my posts but I guess 'fasting' of this kind is actually threatening others to get their way for anything.

 

[krish44]

May be he was depressed and no one knew it...depression in the elderly often goes undiagnosed and most of the while they seem calm without the classical depression symptoms but they tend to refuse food(a warning sign)

Its always better to take an elderly relative who refuses food to see a doctor..as I said..depression in the elderly is very often missed cos the mindset of people that an old person has lead his/her life and what else do they need?

In fact most widowers cant handle old age as well as widows..many internally yearn for a partner to share what only an aging mind understands.

So this is to all..if you have an elderly relative who does not want to eat..dont think he/she is being religious and on the way to Sainthood etc..just take him/her to a doctor and find out he cause of the anorexia..we already have enough saints in history that went undiagnosed!

doctors with specialisation in geriatric care would be clapping their their hands in glee after reading your post. you have to be thanked for enlightening that old widowers need company of old lady partners to suit their aging minds. even Tambrahm boys are finding it difficult to find brides. Do you have any medical prescription for them?
Jokes apart Oldies should accept their age and learn to be happy. travel cos. organise vacation trips,and music concerts by sabhas ,events offered by temples can keep them occupied. their depression is mostly because of lack of activities to engage their active minds. they are made to perform the role of baby sitters or cooks or maid.elder abuse is becoming common. also common is elders being dumped into old age homes

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Sallekhana - Jain religious ritual of death by fasting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santhara

Euthanasia has been a matter of discussion for thousands of years. We hear about it from the time of Socrates.

It ha the subject of wide ranging discussions in the western world.

Currently, PAS is legal in several European countries (Belgium, the Netherlands
and Luxembourg) and in three states of the United States (Oregon, Washington and
Montana).


Assisted suicide (with or without a physician) is legal in Switzerland
EU is legal in Belgium, the Netherlands, and Luxembourg, with the proviso
that it be voluntary and requested by a competent patient.

 

[sarang]

And some of his queens did sati.

It seems even the great Tamil Chola King Raja Raja Chola died by fasting . I do not know how far this is true but this was conveyed to me by a tour guide in Tanjore when I visited the Tanjore Temple few years back .

 

[renuka]

you have to be thanked for enlightening that old widowers need company of old lady partners to suit their aging minds. even Tambrahm boys are finding it difficult to find brides. Do you have any medical prescription for them?

Dear Sir,

You see when we pair old guys with old ladies a friendship is formed and both are kept busy...this is often a neglected part of an aging person's life..children,grandchildren etc can never replace the need of a type of love where only a partner/spouse can give.

In fact I suggested to my widower Father In Law to get to know another widowed elderly lady who was family friend of my mum but that did not take off at all! I got a nice firing from my husband and my mother!

My FIL did not take me seriously..he thought I was joking.
Poor FIL.. I think he needs a partner but just not willing to try my suggestion.

For young TB boys they know what to do..after all India has more than enough girls from Kashmir to Kanyakumari.