The most famous verse of Jayadeva Swami's Gita-Govindam

[mkrishna100]

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Regarding the Bhajanai/Bhagavata groups from the Smartas, my observation is that almost all people, after retirement from service, take to this line, irrespective of how irreligious, corrupt or unprincipled they were, during their working years

 

[sangom]

Why this need for recognition as "holy brahmin" from the brahmin society after retirement?

Perhaps this fulfills an inner need for better acceptance by their caste men

I suppose this is a need in highly caste conscious society where caste divisions are leading to social imbalance and conflicts.

There is a stronger need for caste cohesion to face caste conflicts which might arise in future between castes and this is a move by some to more closely identify with

their own caste

My analysis is that, as soon as a person (brahmin) retires from service or his business, his/her next priority seems to be ensuring a place for himself/herself in Swarga after death (i.e., avoid Naraka by all possible means available at his command!). Turning religious is the first step with prominent caste marks on the forehead all through the daytime, makes the person prima facie a religious one. The next step is joining a bhajanai group (women join bhagavatham groups assiduously), and this has the advantage that it demands no strenuous study of scriptures or other religious books but only being present in the group's bhajanais/chanting regularly, and whenever possible, raise one's voice as much as possible and sing chorus so as to be heard and noticed by more and more people in the assembled audience! In due course of time, this helps most people, especially if a book of bhajanai paddhati is also owned, to become a major player in the group. If one also cultivates the habit of talking about (some particular) deity's glories or even the power of nama chanting, then we get a bhagavata. I don't find females getting this title but something related to Gopis, rasaleela, etc. And by mere perseverence, such bhagavatas get bhagavatottama titles conferred upon them. Thereafter they can start their own bhajanai/bhagavatam group; if so desired, they may cultivate contacts with one or the other of the many swamijis who follow the ISKCON/Gaudiya path and emphasize continuous chanting of god's name, and even become a swamiji themselves with a bit more hard work and intelligent marketing. There is a lot of ego and ego clashes between these bhajanai big-wigs but I cannot say how they will respond to any threat to the caste itself.

 

[krish44]

Sangomji

I have also noticed this phenomenon of this sudden interest to turn religeous after retirement sporting caste marks on forehead and other parts of body, frequenting

more upanyasams, joining bhajanai groups. they do not mind subjecting themselves to some hardship in becoming part of margazhi bhajanai goshtis braving cold

weather early morning .

even in north , I find such groups belonging to sikhism in street processions one month before kartik purnima.

I have found even north brahmins suddenly sporting tufts ,caste marks and shirts/kurtha with religeous symbols and going to temples for bhajans or listening to some

religeous pracharaks.

I think this new found occupation is more to occupy their free time . It is perhaps good economics as it does not cost anything.

 

[Vaagmi]

This is with reference to Sangom’s post #174,177 and Krishji’s post#175 and 178.

This is just to present another view from a different drishtikone.


After retirement the TBs fall into two groups generally:

Let us take the first group first:

1. To this group, belong those who had been brought up from their childhood in traditional brahmin households with traditional values. They would have been taught to do nitya karmas, go to temples, try to excell in everything they do with sincerity, be good sons/daughters, good husbands/wives, be good fathers/ mothers etc., etc., This group, because of the disciplined life they had led, are in the best of their health even when they reach 60 years of retirement age. They, in order to keep themselves busy(they can not remain idle lying in an easy chair) join the local devotees group and engage in service in temples or join a local bhajan mandali and participate in Nama samkirtan. This becomes a natural choice for them because they are inclined towards that kind of a living because of their upbringing.

These people, when they were working-in banks or Government etc.,-deleberately underplay their religious inclinations because the atmosphere is hostile. Secularism, western culture, the simmering anti-brahmin feelings of hatred are the reasons for this underplaying. Moreover to be effective in such a secular milieu it is not enough if they are fair in their dealings with colleagues and public, they have to appear to be fair also. They may do a sandhya vandanam in the morning, follow it up with a pooja at home and then leave for Office. Once in the office they are a completely transformed lot. They drink tea with their colleagues, eat in the common dining room with colleagues etc.,or take food in the canteens at the work place etc., Once back home they get back to their personal regime of sandhya vandanam, sahasranamam chanting etc., This is just the art of living and a necessity for survival. Underneath the ritualistic discipline is the love for God or bhakti which is something natural to such people. If you ask what bhakti and why bhakti they may not indulge in the dukrinjkarane of going to the root of the word bhakti or an argument with you because they have only experienced it and they believe it is a wasteful exercise to argue with such people.

Majority of these individuals do not take bribe and suffer because of that at the hands of the politicians. They are a misfit usually at the parties in which foreign liquor flows like water and every known frontier/limit of morality is violated. They become the butt of ridicule too if they have an over ambitious wife at home.

Once they reach the retirement age, their sons/daughters would have settled down in life (mostly abroad) and they also would have the cushion of an adequate pension and Bank Balance. Thus free from the worries of day to day survival they look around for useful avenues to engage in. As politics is ruled out for them(being Brahmins, they are untouchables)they join these bhajan mandalis, worshippers group etc., and spend time. Some others read books, watch TV or do baby-sitting (grand children)

It is this group that is being targeted by Sangom very enthusiastically to the accompanying loud and jarring “yes”, “yes” of Krishji.

Members here having heard the other side can decide what is the real state of affairs.

About the other second group I will write later in another post in continuation of this.

 

[prasad1]

These people, when they were working-in banks or Government etc.,-deleberately underplay their religious inclinations because the atmosphere is hostile. Secularism, western culture, the simmering anti-brahmin feelings of hatred are the reasons for this underplaying.
Majority of these individuals do not take bribe and suffer because of that at the hands of the politicians. They are a misfit usually at the parties in which foreign liquor flows like water and every known frontier/limit of morality is violated. They become the butt of ridicule too if they have an over ambitious wife at home.

BOO-HOOO one tear for these people.
If they were so miserable, why did they not break out of it.
It is a broad generalization and playing the victim card.
If it is too hot in the kitchen get out of it. Stop complaining about everything else and blame yourself for your situation.
Unless one takes the responsibility on themselves (karma or fate), and tries to overcome it, one can not succeed.
Successful are the ones who failed and tried a different approach. Failed and miserable people blame the environment and make others miserable (including family members).

 

[CHANDRU1849]

To this group, belong those who had been brought up from their childhood in traditional brahmin households with traditional values. They would have been taught to do nitya karmas, go to temples, try to excell in everything they do with sincerity, be good sons/daughters, good husbands/wives, be good fathers/ mothers etc., etc., This group, because of the disciplined life they had led, are in the best of their health even when they reach 60 years of retirement age. They, in order to keep themselves busy(they can not remain idle lying in an easy chair) join the local devotees group and engage in service in temples or join a local bhajan mandali and participate in Nama samkirtan. This becomes a natural choice for them because they are inclined towards that kind of a living because of their upbringing.

If Brahmins - Smarthas here - were brought up in traditional way, as mentioned above, why are they showing inconsistency in their belief and switching loyalties, time and again, from one God to another, without any stability - Puttabarthi Saibaba from 1940s, Sabarimala from 1960s and the latest in the list is Krishna and his favourite Radha.

It is not disciplined but improper guidance in religious matters by elders without allowing the disciplined Bs (?) to think properly.

Ultimately, it is one God's loss to another Godman's gain.

 

[Vaagmi]

BOO-HOOO one tear for these people.
If they were so miserable, why did they not break out of it.
It is a broad generalization and playing the victim card.
If it is too hot in the kitchen get out of it. Stop complaining about everything else and blame yourself for your situation.
Unless one takes the responsibility on themselves (karma or fate), and tries to overcome it, one can not succeed.
Successful are the ones who failed and tried a different approach. Failed and miserable people blame the environment and make others miserable (including family members).

My foot. Great attitude and equally great advice. No thank you. Keep it with you. Those who have picked up no values in life will do anything for survival. And advise others also liberally to do that.

The advice here is to take bribe, get chummy with the politicians betray and undermine the country and enjoy life. Get plum postings, drink to your heart's and liver's content and live like an animal.

There is no victimhood here. People who have values know how to negotiate their life through greedy politicians and survive without losing any of their values and without losing much materially too. They do that and come here to tell the success story. They are not crying about what little they lost. They are happy that the system is still faithful to universal good and universal good conduct.

Yes there are successful ones who have sold their conscience for a few rupees. They are just miserable creatures who crow about their success in the company of like minded people. They command no respect in the society because the society know what they sold.

Yes if it is too hot in the kitchen come out and solicit someone walking in the street. He will take you to the hotel give you a five course dinner with wine and foot the bill also. The price tag does not matter. LOL.

 

[Vaagmi]

If Brahmins - Smarthas here - were brought up in traditional way, as mentioned above, why are they showing inconsistency in their belief and switching loyalties, time and again, from one God to another, without any stability - Puttabarthi Saibaba from 1940s, Sabarimala from 1960s and the latest in the list is Krishna and his favourite Radha.

It is not disciplined but improper guidance in religious matters by elders without allowing the disciplined Bs (?) to think properly.

Ultimately, it is one God's loss to another Godman's gain.

Go and ask them.

The reason may be that they find the lingams least attractive. LOL.

 

[prasad1]

Beggars(including god blackmailers, and Prayers) and people who extoll virtues of begging, and begging as a solution of human problem are failed individuals.
They can not be leaders and provide realistic solutions.

One should be able to take it on the chin and still come back to deliver the KO. If one fails, and tuck their tail between the legs and hides under cover. They will remain failures and snarl and try to keep others away.They are scared insecure people.
An assertive and secure individual will try a different tack, to win the battle.
It is foolish to say that all successful people have compromised their values. If you have wrong values to begin with either change your values or change your venue. Successful people do not complain about their environment, they shape the environment.

People like Napoleon, Alexander, Hannibal, Ashok, Gandhi, etc did not attain greatness by prayers alone.

 

[Vaagmi]

Beggars(including god blackmailers, and Prayers) and people who extoll virtues of begging, and begging as a solution of human problem are failed individuals.
They can not be leaders and provide realistic solutions.

One should be able to take it on the chin and still come back to deliver the KO. If one fails, and tuck their tail between the legs and hides under cover. They will remain failures and snarl and try to keep others away.They are scared insecure people.
An assertive and secure individual will try a different tack, to win the battle.
It is foolish to say that all successful people have compromised their values. If you have wrong values to begin with either change your values or change your venue. Successful people do not complain about their environment, they shape the environment.

People like Napoleon, Alexander, Hannibal, Ashok, Gandhi, etc did not attain greatness by prayers alone.

Napolean, Alexander,Hannibal, Ashok, Gandhi etc., and my next door neighbour Nachamy mama and prasadji. LOL.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Go and ask them.

The reason may be that they find the lingams least attractive. LOL.

No. Krishna and Radha romance seems to be more attractive and also Krishna's romance with thousands of wives stored in the ANTHAPURAM.

 

[renuka]

Ramayan is getting interesting to read..nice to note that the

Kowsalya supraja Rama poorva sandhya pravarthathe
Uthishta narasardoola karthavyam daivamahnikam

is found in the Valmiki Ramayan..only these 2 lines when Vishwamitra wakes up Rama.

Now I wonder who composed Venkateshwara Suprabhatam by adding on to these 2 lines.

 

[Vaagmi]

The second part.

This with reference to post #179. Let us take the second variety of TBs.

These are TBs who picked up few values whatsoever from their parents, elders and community. As children they were either neglected by parents or were simply spoilt children. They somehow get a job and after a lackadaisical career they too retire from their job. What happens after retirement is the focus here and so let us see that.

These people also have their future needs of financial nature taken care of by a pension and savings. Their children too would have settled down by now and these elders may be doing baby sitting for their sons and daughters. They have nothing to do in their home. In all probability they may have a host of diseases troubling them because of the undisciplined life they have led. Smoking, drinking, meat/egg eating and excess indulgence in each of the known vices. Most of the time they will be easy chair ridden watching TV. Because of their nature they will be always in conflict with others in the family. I have seen houses where such individuals watching one of the two TVs kept side by side--the other TV will be showing a programme liked by others in the family while our hero will be watching whatever he likes. Going to a temple is ruled out for them not only because of the poor health but also because of the mental aversion.
Among the several complaints they have, God had not been kind to them is one. So they will be agnostics or die hard atheists. They will make fun of every religious practice and will spend time questioning unendingly about every belief. They are perfect examples of cynics. While their counter part from the other kind will eventually die happily with the certainty in his mind that he will go to heaven these cynics will die a miserable death unsure of where they will go and worrying about it no end.
In all probability their children would also have been brought up in this atmosphere. They would believe in free love or live in relationships. In some rare cases if the spouse of such super humans had been more level headed the children may be saved. Spend just ten minutes with these people and they will change the mood to extreme pessimism. Next time you see this kind of a person you will hide from him or take a detour to avoid him.

If you have to converse with these people you will have to first determine the coordinates by mutual agreement within which the conversation can proceed. Otherwise they will drag you towards shunya very quickly.

 

[Vaagmi]

Ramayan is getting interesting to read..nice to note that the

Kowsalya supraja Rama poorva sandhya pravarthathe
Uthishta narasardoola karthavyam daivamahnikam

is found in the Valmiki Ramayan..only these 2 lines when Vishwamitra wakes up Rama.

Now I wonder who composed Venkateshwara Suprabhatam by adding on to these 2 lines.

Venkatesa Suprabhatham was composed by P B Annangarachary.

 

[krish44]

The second part.

This with reference to post #179. Let us take the second variety of TBs.

These are TBs who picked up few values whatsoever from their parents, elders and community. As children they were either neglected by parents or were simply spoilt children. They somehow get a job and after a lackadaisical career they too retire from their job. What happens after retirement is the focus here and so let us see that.

These people also have their future needs of financial nature taken care of by a pension and savings. Their children too would have settled down by now and these elders may be doing baby sitting for their sons and daughters. They have nothing to do in their home. In all probability they may have a host of diseases troubling them because of the undisciplined life they have led. Smoking, drinking, meat/egg eating and excess indulgence in each of the known vices. Most of the time they will be easy chair ridden watching TV. Because of their nature they will be always in conflict with others in the family. I have seen houses where such individuals watching one of the two TVs kept side by side--the other TV will be showing a programme liked by others in the family while our hero will be watching whatever he likes. Going to a temple is ruled out for them not only because of the poor health but also because of the mental aversion.
Among the several complaints they have, God had not been kind to them is one. So they will be agnostics or die hard atheists. They will make fun of every religious practice and will spend time questioning unendingly about every belief. They are perfect examples of cynics. While their counter part from the other kind will eventually die happily with the certainty in his mind that he will go to heaven these cynics will die a miserable death unsure of where they will go and worrying about it no end.
In all probability their children would also have been brought up in this atmosphere. They would believe in free love or live in relationships. In some rare cases if the spouse of such super humans had been more level headed the children may be saved. Spend just ten minutes with these people and they will change the mood to extreme pessimism. Next time you see this kind of a person you will hide from him or take a detour to avoid him.

If you have to converse with these people you will have to first determine the coordinates by mutual agreement within which the conversation can proceed. Otherwise they will drag you towards shunya very quickly.

Most interesting

Most who do not believe in going to temples are all over indulgent and are drunkards ,chain smokers have preference for non veg food and would have all kind of

diseases. Is this the honest wish of a temple going asthika. A person desiring privacy in his home and having a TV separately for enjoying a program he likes is also

over indulgent.Besides he is also agnostic or in worst case an atheist to be despised by all and he should have a special place in hell or more charitability put would

have to search for a place other than heavan and would not know where to go. Wah,wah what vivid thinking and imagination.Only an asthika ratna can think like this

and state it with full conviction.lol

 

[mkrishna100]

Most of the time they will be easy chair ridden watching TV. Because of their nature they will be always in conflict with others in the family. I have seen houses where such individuals watching one of the two TVs kept side by side--the other TV will be showing a programme liked by others in the family while our hero will be watching whatever he likes. Going to a temple is ruled out for them not only because of the poor health but also because of the mental aversion

I have seen quite a few senior citizens like this and the prefectly match what you have written in the above quote .

 

[prasad1]

and state it with full conviction.lol

Conviction - my foot.
Just like to hear their own voices or spout something for others to follow.

 

[veegopalji]

I am sorry I am not going to post anything on this. I need a copy of Arcot Panchangam for 2015-16 ? I have tried Giri Trading shops in Mylapore and Tiruvanmiyur
but without success. Can any of our friends send me a pdf copy of this panchangam to me urgently as it is required for a friend. I am sure there is always someone
to help. Thanks and regards,

 

[sangom]

Conviction - my foot.
Just like to hear their own voices or spout something for others to follow.

I think the "conviction" part is due to the indoctrination given by the particular religion. Without such cultic conviction it is probably difficult to exist as a member of some sects, schisms, etc. This applies even to some cadre-based political parties!

 

[a-TB]

Most interesting

Most who do not believe in going to temples are all over indulgent and are drunkards ,chain smokers have preference for non veg food and would have all kind of

diseases. Is this the honest wish of a temple going asthika. A person desiring privacy in his home and having a TV separately for enjoying a program he likes is also

over indulgent.Besides he is also agnostic or in worst case an atheist to be despised by all and he should have a special place in hell or more charitability put would

have to search for a place other than heavan and would not know where to go. Wah,wah what vivid thinking and imagination.Only an asthika ratna can think like this

and state it with full conviction.lol

Appropriate response !


Let me add to it.
Those that follow religion blindly develop hatred for others who are not like them.
Post #188 is an example of hate post

Mr Vaagmi should ask to the god he has surrendered to and ask 'LOL Why Oh Lord, did you create Type 2 TB LOL. I am putting forth my hatred message to them on your behalf. Hope to see you in heaven in a few decades LOL"

 

[Vaagmi]

Appropriate response !


Let me add to it.
Those that follow religion blindly develop hatred for others who are not like them.
Post #188 is an example of hate post

Mr Vaagmi should ask to the god he has surrendered to and ask 'LOL Why Oh Lord, did you create Type 2 TB LOL. I am putting forth my hatred message to them on your behalf. Hope to see you in heaven in a few decades LOL"

Keep reading every post of me. Eventually it will change you. I enjoy your single point hate-filled replies immensely because you are reading my posts. It would do a lot of good to you. Keep reading and keep sending your "LOL" quot
ing replies. And remember to bring in "surrender" in each of your post because you have yet to understand it. LOL. Good entertainment. LOL.

 

[Raji Ram]

Sri Jayadeva would turn in his grave, if he happens to see this thread, which started with an appreciation to his verses! :sad:

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Sri Jayadeva would turn in his grave, if he happens to see this thread, which started with an appreciation to his verses! :sad:

Yes. Not only Jeyadeva but lot of Kings who were depicted as demons with affiliation to a particular God.

Will you accept?

 

[sarang]

What is wrong? We all have a deivic and asuric qualities in each of us, that is not a disqualification to sing the glory of krishna or any ishtadevata.

Yes. Not only Jeyadeva but lot of Kings who were depicted as demons with affiliation to a particular God.

Will you accept?

 

[sangom]

Appropriate response !


Let me add to it.
Those that follow religion blindly develop hatred for others who are not like them.
Post #188 is an example of hate post

Mr Vaagmi should ask to the god he has surrendered to and ask 'LOL Why Oh Lord, did you create Type 2 TB LOL. I am putting forth my hatred message to them on your behalf. Hope to see you in heaven in a few decades LOL"

The people who "surrender" should read and understand (and this is very important!) the poem Abu Ben Adam by Leigh Hunt. There is every chance that the surrender-bhakti may go the way of 'vaNNAnukku vaNNAtti mEl...' kind and the surrenderee God may be liking only those who held on to Shunya, while alive, because they spoke the truth about God!