The Tamil Brahmin Culture - one opinion (borrowed)

[prasad1]

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Dear Prasad ji,
The more I age the more I start to feel I got lots of things wrong by " reading" books.

Why do we have to rigidly divide everything into Advaita or Vishistadvaita or Dvaita or Nirguna Brahman or a Manifest concept or Personal God or Karma yoga or Jnana Yoga or Bhakti Yoga?

What is there is no actual path to adhere and one is free to experience all paths once once realizes all we have to do is just Be!

On somedays we can feel Advaitic ..on somedays when we could like the idea of a personal God or a God high up in heaven.

On some days we would be in Karma yoga mode or other days Jnaana Yoga?

May be we are meant to be " flexible" and enjoy the flow instead of being rigid and land up with a fractured mind.

If we observe children, they do not have a fixed behavior when very young..they can be in the present with any game they play yet can just leave it and grab another toy and not be attached to anything yet able to play with everything.

Give a child a spoon, he would start to play with it.
Everything is a new experience for a child.
We all have been this way till we grew up and went " astray" from the state of being.

Yes, I fully agree with you.

May be we are meant to be " flexible" and enjoy the flow instead of being rigid and land up with a fractured mind.

 

[Mani_Chennai]

Dear Prasad ji,
The more I age the more I start to feel I got lots of things wrong by " reading" books.

Why do we have to rigidly divide everything into Advaita or Vishistadvaita or Dvaita or Nirguna Brahman or a Manifest concept or Personal God or Karma yoga or Jnana Yoga or Bhakti Yoga?

What is there is no actual path to adhere and one is free to experience all paths once once realizes all we have to do is just Be!

On somedays we can feel Advaitic ..on somedays when we could like the idea of a personal God or a God high up in heaven.

On some days we would be in Karma yoga mode or other days Jnaana Yoga?

May be we are meant to be " flexible" and enjoy the flow instead of being rigid and land up with a fractured mind.

If we observe children, they do not have a fixed behavior when very young..they can be in the present with any game they play yet can just leave it and grab another toy and not be attached to anything yet able to play with everything.

Give a child a spoon, he would start to play with it.
Everything is a new experience for a child.
We all have been this way till we grew up and went " astray" from the state of being.

Each division was created to address the needs or expectations of that group. If Rāmānuja wanted to convert Tamil nonBrahmins into Vaishnavism, at that time there was no other way. People are not rational and accept every thing because every one's personality, education, capacity think, brainwashing and the whole array of thins (no one has yet listed them all) demand different approach like medicine - some like as pills, some liqke as liquids, some want the raw farm and so on. Thus religious marketing was not known to earlier generation. Is it not funny that Shankara who was supposed to be an Avatara of Shiva, asked the Chandala to move away? May be it was a way to demonstrate to the ignorant "caste clinging" Brahmins who gave more importance to rituals without realizing those were the first step. While physical cleaning, then mental cleaning as the steps to progress so that one can feel “aham Brahmasmi” were conceived but people stopped at the physical cleaning and rituals as the ultimate symbol of finding their inner soul – aham Brahmasmi. So, it was a conscientious decision to make different approach, rather to appear to different group of people. Don't we now have Dravidian and Aryan mind set in Tamilnadu? Why?

Religion and philosophy are two sides of the coin of finding our inner soul and reaching oneness with GOD. Alright, I am not lecturing, rather what I found in my life by extensive traveling in India, meeting scholars and sadhus without asking to find who I am. I hd visited over 100 famous temples in India though I never had a plan or desire to visit them. It happened. I am sharing those experieences .So, religion is individual choice. Caste is just the label for marketing it.

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

Valid observations. Like you have expressed your opinion, I have shared what I have learned from various scholars without assuming I am a Brahmin. The fact Rigveda's first stanza says when one is born (an athma taking a body) it has not caste. Brahman is one who pursues Brahma is the truth, but the question is can you show one individual who is in that state. That is, when you live in a society and not in a forest in isolation, you do get contaminated and forget your duty is to seek Barhma without worrying about food, shelter, friends, relatives and so on. So, it is an ideal concept. But, one still be a Bramin if can do even part of the search of Brahman within himself for a few seconds. If you look at yourself or myself: we are sons, fathers, husbands, brothers, cousins, workers in a society assuming different roles in every day life. The question is, while we are acting, in every role do we feel the Brahman consciously? In that case, you become a failure when you are acting as a father or son and so on. Do we never express anger? Almost impossible. So, quoting things which we can not practice in every day life may be a convenient way of deceiving ourselves still claim Brahmins. I tried to be a Brahmin when I get up for about 10 minutes and 15 minutes in the night before I sleep. But yet, I am not a full time Brahmin and have no time to be in mediation. I am not slapping on your face and , some times to give a reply takes more time, as it involves self analysis and search. Unfortunately, when we communicate in writing, there are hidden assumptions such as, presupposition( I know so every one knows, it is obvious) , deletion (omitting things needed for completion), generalization(one experience becomes universal experience), metathesis (transposing views) and mind reading (assume what we think is what the other person too thought) and another seven semantic assumptions. Thus, if you think I was slapping on your face. I am sorry that my hand is too small and I apologize to your inner Brahmin spirit.

Why so many words sir? Why such long sentences sir? Ok, sir I concede you are a great scholar, erudite in many matters. I am not.

In your opinion, to know brahmn, you have to practice asceticism, a stoic life, make long penances, trouble/afflict your body, read every scripture in the world, puff yourself up with all knowledge and prove to someone how great you are. You are not to blame. Your mind has been conditioned and programmed to think so.

In my opinion, to know God and relate with Him in person, you only need to humble yourself and love everyone. You can eat what is needed and not more, you can clothe yourselves with minimum clothes needed and not more, you can live in a house of size just enough for you and not larger. I know no great philosophy, no great scriptures, no great upanishads. Only thing I know is love everyone as I love my own self and be contented with whatever you have. If this is not sufficient to know God, then God is not worth knowing.

 

[prasad1]

In my opinion, to know God and relate with Him in person, you only need to humble yourself and love everyone. You can eat what is needed and not more, you can clothe yourselves with minimum clothes needed and not more, you can live in a house of size just enough for you and not larger. I know no great philosophy, no great scriptures, no great upanishads. Only thing I know is love everyone as I love my own self and be contented with whatever you have. If this is not sufficient to know God, then God is not worth knowing.

GNANA SUNYAMji, ths is what you are saying.

Kabir Dohas

Pothi Padh Padh Kar Jag Mua, Pandit Bhayo Na Koye
Dhai Aakhar Prem Ke, Jo Padhe so Pandit Hoye

Translation
Reading books everyone died, none became any wise
One who reads the word of Love, only becomes wise

My Understanding
To understand this doha in its true perspective is important. We all read and now with tremendous media exposure, we are seemingly more informed. Everyone seems to know everything. Yet, the truth is that inspite of all this information, there is no awareness. We are not at peace. There is a lot of frustration all around. Our minds are not quiet and relaxed. We talk of Love but have no compassion. Selfishness, greed, fear, hatred and similar tendencies seem to grip us all the time. Why?

I have found myself in this quagmire a number of times.

Kabir in this doha shows the way, in his simple but dynamic style. He daringly says that despite all our readings, despite all our knowledge, we cannot become wise. Only if we 'read' Love, become loving and loveable, only then wisdom will dawn on us. Only then Life will be worth living.

Pothi Padh Padh Jag Mua

 

[renuka]

Intellect takes you to the door, but it doesn't take you into the house.

Shams-i Tabrizi

 

[Mani_Chennai]

Why so many words sir? Why such long sentences sir? Ok, sir I concede you are a great scholar, erudite in many matters. I am not.

In your opinion, to know brahmn, you have to practice asceticism, a stoic life, make long penances, trouble/afflict your body, read every scripture in the world, puff yourself up with all knowledge and prove to someone how great you are. You are not to blame. Your mind has been conditioned and programmed to think so.

In my opinion, to know God and relate with Him in person, you only need to humble yourself and love everyone. You can eat what is needed and not more, you can clothe yourselves with minimum clothes needed and not more, you can live in a house of size just enough for you and not larger. I know no great philosophy, no great scriptures, no great upanishads. Only thing I know is love everyone as I love my own self and be contented with whatever you have. If this is not sufficient to know God, then God is not worth knowing.

Good questions. I had been told that when we make short statements, it provokes many because the intention or semantics is not clear. This is because what is said and what is understood do not match because of our learning method, mental mapping and so on. So, this is not show off that I am a great scholar, rather make it clear that knowledge is digested and taking only what we want is not a healthy thing in life. Your view of humbleness is always needed. Even if you disown GOD he or she is with you. So in your own way you are God. Thanks for simplifying the concepts.

 

[Mani_Chennai]

GNANA SUNYAMji, ths is what you are saying.

Kabir Dohas

Pothi Padh Padh Kar Jag Mua, Pandit Bhayo Na Koye
Dhai Aakhar Prem Ke, Jo Padhe so Pandit Hoye

Translation
Reading books everyone died, none became any wise
One who reads the word of Love, only becomes wise

​

My Understanding
To understand this doha in its true perspective is important. We all read and now with tremendous media exposure, we are seemingly more informed. Everyone seems to know everything. Yet, the truth is that inspite of all this information, there is no awareness. We are not at peace. There is a lot of frustration all around. Our minds are not quiet and relaxed. We talk of Love but have no compassion. Selfishness, greed, fear, hatred and similar tendencies seem to grip us all the time. Why?

I have found myself in this quagmire a number of times.

Kabir in this doha shows the way, in his simple but dynamic style. He daringly says that despite all our readings, despite all our knowledge, we cannot become wise. Only if we 'read' Love, become loving and loveable, only then wisdom will dawn on us. Only then Life will be worth living.

Pothi Padh Padh Jag Mua

Is it not true that Kabir said those things because he has realized it in his life? By studying him without knowing how did he obtain that inner self, people have never changed. They have become admirers only. If he had changed any one that might be accountable and we don't know that. Shankara, Ramanauja, Buddha, Jains other saints have said and experienced the inner truth in their life. Out question is, how can we also realize without just reading and quoting them? Do we live in the same era as they did. If you take just three fruits – a mango-pineapple and banana- how will one look at them. It depends on who he is and his motivation. For example, the farmer, the buyer, a doctor, a shipper, a shop owner, a tax man, an agriculture specialist, a nutritionist, an environmentalist.... thus, just studying only Agriculture and claim that is highly qualified is a myth. Religion has to be understood along with all related domain of knowledge. It is difficult and hence we face only arguments and disagreement. We don't want to be an Walking stick, rather want to be an Umbrella to ward of evil heat from Sun light at mid-day or rain when we are tired and not knowing where we are going. The point is, every thing has to be self realization and that will differ from people to people even within a family. That is the riddle

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

GNANA SUNYAMji, ths is what you are saying.

Kabir Dohas

Pothi Padh Padh Kar Jag Mua, Pandit Bhayo Na Koye
Dhai Aakhar Prem Ke, Jo Padhe so Pandit Hoye

Translation
Reading books everyone died, none became any wise
One who reads the word of Love, only becomes wise

​

My Understanding
To understand this doha in its true perspective is important. We all read and now with tremendous media exposure, we are seemingly more informed. Everyone seems to know everything. Yet, the truth is that inspite of all this information, there is no awareness. We are not at peace. There is a lot of frustration all around. Our minds are not quiet and relaxed. We talk of Love but have no compassion. Selfishness, greed, fear, hatred and similar tendencies seem to grip us all the time. Why?

I have found myself in this quagmire a number of times.

Kabir in this doha shows the way, in his simple but dynamic style. He daringly says that despite all our readings, despite all our knowledge, we cannot become wise. Only if we 'read' Love, become loving and loveable, only then wisdom will dawn on us. Only then Life will be worth living.

Pothi Padh Padh Jag Mua

Dear Prasadji,

I like your post.

I remember having read somewhere, "Let not the wise man boast in his wisdom. Let not the strong man boast in his strength. Let not the rich man boast in his wealth. For all these things pass away. Let him know God and realize that God is the only one worth knowing, who executes justice, righteousness and judgment".

As regards what kabir has said, my knowledge about what kabir has said is zero. I have not read any of his works.

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

Is it not true that Kabir said those things because he has realized it in his life? By studying him without knowing how did he obtain that inner self, people have never changed. They have become admirers only. If he had changed any one that might be accountable and we don't know that. Shankara, Ramanauja, Buddha, Jains other saints have said and experienced the inner truth in their life. Out question is, how can we also realize without just reading and quoting them? Do we live in the same era as they did. If you take just three fruits – a mango-pineapple and banana- how will one look at them. It depends on who he is and his motivation. For example, the farmer, the buyer, a doctor, a shipper, a shop owner, a tax man, an agriculture specialist, a nutritionist, an environmentalist.... thus, just studying only Agriculture and claim that is highly qualified is a myth. Religion has to be understood along with all related domain of knowledge. It is difficult and hence we face only arguments and disagreement. We don't want to be an Walking stick, rather want to be an Umbrella to ward of evil heat from Sun light at mid-day or rain when we are tired and not knowing where we are going. The point is, every thing has to be self realization and that will differ from people to people even within a family. That is the riddle

enter into your room, shut the door and talk to Brahmn yourself. Humble yourself and say, 'Oh Brahmn, you are omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent and I am nothing. By my efforts I can never know you. Please reveal yourself to me'

If you make attempts by your own efforts to know Brahmn, the eternal Truth, by your own self, and let us assume you succeed, at the end of the day you will boast 'I found Truth by myself' and you will give all credit to yourself. That is EGO. You may have succeeded in realizing your own self but still you have not realized Brahmn. Hence Brahmn Himself has willed that no man realizes Brahmn by his/her own efforts. He has to know you, draw you to Him by Himself by His sovereign will. It is all about Brahmn and absolutely NOTHING about you.

Shed your EGO. Break out of the ego-cocoon/ego-shell. Empty yourself, firstly your mind. Brahmn will reveal Himself to you. So so simple!!!

Please note, you are not desperately seeking Brahmn. Brahmn is desperately seeking you. Your puffed up EGO, puffed with all knowledge, arrogance, pride, conceit, haughtiness is hindering Brahmn from finding you.

 

[Krishnan.vp]

I am kind of chaffed to see that there is even a thought process that murugan can be copyrighted by tamil supremacists..

The supreme gods of hinduism are widely known.. Shiva, Vishnu and Brahma.. of this Shiva has two main sons ganapathi and karthikeyan. Now, karthikeyan is also followed as Murugan in Tamilnadu. This is the fact of the matter.

I believe that further insinuating that Murugan is specific to tamilnadu can be a matter subject to judicial contention given that we have laws which govern hurting the sentiments of a particular religion and we are hurting the sentiments of hindus by hijacking one of the prime deities as belonging to a people of a particular denomination.