Theory of Karma

[sravna]

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The beauty of Indian philosophy is its consistency. Just like other explanations of any aspect of reality, the theory of karma fits very well into the whole picture. Let me give in brief my understanding of the karma theory.

The physical world exists because of the spiritual world and is the discrete counterpart of the holistic spiritual world. The extent of unity seen in the physical world depends on the maturity of the perceiver. There are two points to be noted here. Physical world cannot have its own reality separate from that of the spiritual world. In the physical world the whole exists as parts. And whatever happens in the physical world has to be consistent with the reality of the spiritual world. The physical world is characterized by a number of opposing realities. But the spiritual world is balanced. So applying our rule of consistency with the spiritual reality, anything that happens has a corresponding countering event in order to reflect the underlying balance.

The above rule forms the basis of karma theory wherein for example when you harbor negative thoughts which in reality has no place in the spiritual world those are countered by an opposing event which brings the realization of the truth of balance and vice versa. The point is physical world being discrete allows for extremes which as you mature because of the appropriate reactions to your actions, learn them as untruth and reach a balanced state of mind.

The reactions are not at the same life, especially major learning doesn't happen in one life but happen over a number of lifetimes because all cannot learn everything in one life. Numerous births and not remembering previous births is a neat concept because(1) the circumstances need to vary and has to be apt according to one's stage in learning (2) physical life exists for grasping truths. The details or the physical aspects are not important and one need not remember what events happened in previous lives after the essence has been grasped (3) There is a certain amount of uncertainty about the reality when you start learning and the certainty you get subsequently has to be by sudden realization or through the intuitive process of the grasp of the whole truth and not by explicit knowledge of the previous births. That would not be intuitive or a holistic grasp and hence faulty and detrimental to the learning process.

In summary karma theory just like any other theory of hinduism brings out the holistic aspect of reality and explains why we find the many discrepancies that seem to exist in the physical world.

 

[sangom]

The beauty of Indian philosophy is its consistency. Just like other explanations of any aspect of reality, the theory of karma fits very well into the whole picture. Let me give in brief my understanding of the karma theory.

The physical world exists because of the spiritual world and is the discrete counterpart of the holistic spiritual world. The extent of unity seen in the physical world depends on the maturity of the perceiver. There are two points to be noted here. Physical world cannot have its own reality separate from that of the spiritual world. In the physical world the whole exists as parts. And whatever happens in the physical world has to be consistent with the reality of the spiritual world. The physical world is characterized by a number of opposing realities. But the spiritual world is balanced. So applying our rule of consistency with the spiritual reality, anything that happens has a corresponding countering event in order to reflect the underlying balance.

The above rule forms the basis of karma theory wherein for example when you harbor negative thoughts which in reality has no place in the spiritual world those are countered by an opposing event which brings the realization of the truth of balance and vice versa. The point is physical world being discrete allows for extremes which as you mature because of the appropriate reactions to your actions, learn them as untruth and reach a balanced state of mind.

The reactions are not at the same life, especially major learning doesn't happen in one life but happen over a number of lifetimes because all cannot learn everything in one life. Numerous births and not remembering previous births is a neat concept because(1) the circumstances need to vary and has to be apt according to one's stage in learning (2) physical life exists for grasping truths. The details or the physical aspects are not important and one need not remember what events happened in previous lives after the essence has been grasped (3) There is a certain amount of uncertainty about the reality when you start learning and the certainty you get subsequently has to be by sudden realization or through the intuitive process of the grasp of the whole truth and not by explicit knowledge of the previous births. That would not be intuitive or a holistic grasp and hence faulty and detrimental to the learning process.

In summary karma theory just like any other theory of hinduism brings out the holistic aspect of reality and explains why we find the many discrepancies that seem to exist in the physical world.

Shri Sravna,

What is your concept of this "spiritual world"? How is it "holistic", which seems to be your favourite phrase? How does it fit with the concept of advaita and absolute Reality of one Brahman?

Your propositions "Physical world cannot have its own reality separate from that of the spiritual world. In the physical world the whole exists as parts. And whatever happens in the physical world has to be consistent with the reality of the spiritual world.", will, imo, necessitate a fatalistic world in which every little thing will go on "holistically" as in the 'spiritual world' because whatever happens in the physical world has to be consistent with the reality of the spiritual world.

 

[renuka]

Sravna..nice topic but can we start by defining Spiritual World?
What exactly do you mean by it?
Are you talking of any Loka in specific as in any Subtle region or when you say Spiritual World you mean Spirituality per se?

 

[sravna]

Shri Sravna,

What is your concept of this "spiritual world"? How is it "holistic", which seems to be your favourite phrase? How does it fit with the concept of advaita and absolute Reality of one Brahman?

Your propositions "Physical world cannot have its own reality separate from that of the spiritual world. In the physical world the whole exists as parts. And whatever happens in the physical world has to be consistent with the reality of the spiritual world.", will, imo, necessitate a fatalistic world in which every little thing will go on "holistically" as in the 'spiritual world' because whatever happens in the physical world has to be consistent with the reality of the spiritual world.

Shri Sangom,

Sorry for replying late. I was absorbed in the cricket match. Finally India seems to be back to the winning ways.

Anyway, by spiritual world I mean the spiritual reality or the brahman. Physical world is a disconnected spiritual reality and If you make all the necessary connections you have the spiritual reality.

By making connections, I mean to be in harmony or sync with one another. Beyond a certain level of harmony the connections become holistic or spiritual and parts begins to act as a single unit and become inseparable. This is coming together of all the complements and the whole is formed.

Maya is the cause of the perception of disconnectedness and the right perception is the realization of the unity of the reality. When the right perception is there disconnectedness vanishes and you become one with the spiritual reality.

Renuka, does this answer you?

 

[saidevo]

namaste sravna and others.

Although the Abrahamic religions do not believe in the karma theory, they have roughly equivalent sayings such as, 'What you sow is what you reap', and 'Eye for eye'. Let us discuss, besides, what the effects of karma are: both good and bad karma (sukarma and kukarma).

How do we get their effects realized? In the same kind or cumulative other effects? (Our traditional grandmas tried to scare our children with such words as, 'Hey don't kill that lizard there! If you do, you will be born as a lizard in your next janma, it will be born as a boy and will kill you!"

 

[carvaka]

"The extent of unity seen in the physical world depends on the maturity of the perceiver."

Its not my mistake to not to have the maturity and can I say the supreme-being the creator is at fault. I also doubt that, learnings over several life-times(i am not very fond of the re-incarnation theory) can be transitioned or over-lapped for the benefit of the human life or the other life forms...

and i also have doubts that there are any benefits at all in any life form...its one big inconsequentially small unimportant event/thing/state...proly its all about existentialism...

the concept of good and bad might not be something of importance after all...

 

[carvaka]

but I tend to agree that karma as understood by human beings is one big factor for their survival

 

[talwan]

Sravanaji,
I think the spiritual world is the Aanmeega Ulagam.To eloborate, what we normally do in the material world, is we run around materialistic benifits by our actions,thinkings (karmas).In the Aanmeega world we do karmaas to attain the feet of God.There are four goals for an Aathma.Dharma,Artha,Kama and Moksha.The first three are the materialist world related.The fourth is related to Aanmiga world.
Hope I have given sone Idea on the materialistic and Spiritual world.
Alwan

 

[Yamaka]

namaste sravna and others.

Although the Abrahamic religions do not believe in the karma theory, they have roughly equivalent sayings such as, 'What you sow is what you reap', and 'Eye for eye'. Let us discuss, besides, what the effects of karma are: both good and bad karma (sukarma and kukarma).

How do we get their effects realized? In the same kind or cumulative other effects? (Our traditional grandmas tried to scare our children with such words as, 'Hey don't kill that lizard there! If you do, you will be born as a lizard in your next janma, it will be born as a boy and will kill you!"

Well... Folks... if Karma means ACTION happening in this world...by the activities of individuals, and individuals will reap the consequences of their ACTION... I understand this, and largely agree without any hesitation...

However, if you walk into the world of "Janma Poorva Karma" and its consequences...then I must stand up and shout

"It's all HOAX, designed to cheat innocent people".

Sorry to rain on your parade!

 

[Nara]

Well... Folks... if Karma means ACTION happening in this world...by the activities of individuals, and individuals will reap the consequences of their ACTION... ...

Y, even in this realm of pure materialism, the consequence of our actions is not definitive as a mathematical equation. This is true only in the aggregate, a sort of statistical probability. All we can say is if one is loving and compassionate, he/she is more likely to receive love and compassion in return.

The fundamental error of the faithful is the notion that there is some supernatural meaning to life that transcends our immediate lives and all the perceived wrongs are righted by a supernatural power.

It is a tragedy of Greek proportions that even the educated who should know better are mired in such superstitions and parochial pride. I beseech them, one and all, to rise above mere caste considerations, and elevate their lives, and that of others, for a better more just, loving, and compassionate society.

Cheers!

 

[sangom]

Y, even in this realm of pure materialism, the consequence of our actions is not definitive as a mathematical equation. This is true only in the aggregate, a sort of statistical probability. All we can say is if one is loving and compassionate, he/she is more likely to receive love and compassion in return.

The fundamental error of the faithful is the notion that there is some supernatural meaning to life that transcends our immediate lives and all the perceived wrongs are righted by a supernatural power.

It is a tragedy of Greek proportions that even the educated who should know better are mired in such superstitions and parochial pride. I beseech them, one and all, to rise above mere caste considerations, and elevate their lives, and that of others, for a better more just, loving, and compassionate society.

Cheers!

How do you explain/justify the inequalities among humans as also animals even at birth?

 

[Nara]

How do you explain/justify the inequalities among humans as also animals even at birth?

Sangom sir, I think it is a fallacy to think there must be an explanation for this. It is all part of nature. If we take fruits of a tree we see that not all are perfectly formed, some are deformed, crooked, some are fused together, etc. We see the same thing among animals. The same is true for humans as well, being part of the animal kingdom.

We as humans can't expect justifications and explanations for our anomalies any more than that for fruits of a tree. If these anomalies bestow survival and reproductive advantage, and if its prevalence reaches critical mass, then it becomes the norm. If not, they perish.

To look for supernatural meaning can be summed up with this line from a popular Tamil song: "இருக்கும் இடத்தைவிட்டு இல்லாத இடம் தேடி அலைகின்றாய் ஞானத்தங்கமே".

This is my considered opinion.

Cheers!

 

[saidevo]

namaste.

Yamaka said in post #9:
if Karma means ACTION happening in this world...by the activities of individuals, and individuals will reap the consequences of their ACTION... I understand this, and largely agree without any hesitation...

However, if you walk into the world of "Janma Poorva Karma" and its consequences...then I must stand up and shout

"It's all HOAX, designed to cheat innocent people".

The futility of such argument is self-evident. The beautiful Sanskrit term karma (like dharma) means action, which is both cause and effect. If there is a guarantee that all actions every individual will certainly have their consequences before the individual dies, this world will be a far better place to live in!

Since it is not happening, and if one 'stands up and shouts' that pUrva janma karma is 'all HOAX', that person needs to explain how the consequences still awaited to happen to actions already committed by an individual are disposed. Perhaps another anamoly of Nature, or is it alright to cause actions and not face consequences?

 

[sravna]

namaste.

Yamaka said in post #9:
if Karma means ACTION happening in this world...by the activities of individuals, and individuals will reap the consequences of their ACTION... I understand this, and largely agree without any hesitation...

However, if you walk into the world of "Janma Poorva Karma" and its consequences...then I must stand up and shout

"It's all HOAX, designed to cheat innocent people".

The futility of such argument is self-evident. The beautiful Sanskrit term karma (like dharma) means action, which is both cause and effect. If there is a guarantee that all actions every individual will certainly have their consequences before the individual dies, this world will be a far better place to live in!

Since it is not happening, and if one 'stands up and shouts' that pUrva janma karma is 'all HOAX', that person needs to explain how the consequences still awaited to happen to actions already committed by an individual are disposed. Perhaps another anamoly of Nature, or is it alright to cause actions and not face consequences?

Beautiful!

 

[sravna]

I am not able to understand why many people are not able to accept the concept of soul. It only seems to me this is the bane that science and technology has bestowed upon many of us. The day science or technology is unable to reconcile observation with a physical theory or when technology fails inexplicably, these people would finally wake up. This has already happened with modern physics. With out the concept of soul scientific knowledge wouldn't consummate.

In Shri Yamaka's style, let's wait and watch.

 

[saidevo]

namaste.

Nara said in post #10:
Y, even in this realm of pure materialism, the consequence of our actions is not definitive as a mathematical equation. This is true only in the aggregate, a sort of statistical probability. All we can say is if one is loving and compassionate, he/she is more likely to receive love and compassion in return.

He follows this up with his usual, inimitable call to raise above caste barriers and 'parochial pride', elevate lives and a 'more just, loving, and compassionate society.'

For argument sake, let us say that we agree with this principle. Then, this raises some issues:

• How does an individual 'elevate' their life by being compassionate and just, presumably by dispensing with religion and spirituality, and living the life of comfort (supposed to be) afforded by science?

• In other words, can science in all its ramifications of knowledge such as economics, politics, social sciences, military science, Infotech, technology and so on and so forth, make the individuals at all their levels of sustenance compassionate and just? If it can, why hasn't it happened?

• There can be only one truth: either everything--including love, compassion and justice--must be pure materialism, if one were to believe physical science, or the final reality must be beyond the physical. So, how do we--everyone of us at all levels, because all of us generate karma--transform our lives by living (can we say) the purest/most altruistic material life? Can the scientists, agnostics and atheists develop a universal code of conduct and program it in the practical reality of daily life for everyone?

If there is only 'an aggregate' which in itself is a 'statistical probability' to all the cause and effect of karma, and that this is only in the material world, it would be like everyone dissoloving a small amout of asafoetida in the ocean--கடலில் கரைத்த காயம் போல. So, why bother with doing good and bad, if there is no life (soul) and only one life, and that is only physical?

 

[sravna]

Shri Saidevo is making some very valid arguments. The notion of compassion, fairness, love etc. doesn't go hand in hand with the philosophy of materialism. It is the height of irony that people who believe in spiritual values are blamed for lack of compassion or empathy by the people who mainly pay lip service to such values. Their precept is such a glaring inconsistency with what they practice that I am surprised they make their accusations publicly.

 

[C RAVI]

namaste.

Nara said in post #10:
Y, even in this realm of pure materialism, the consequence of our actions is not definitive as a mathematical equation. This is true only in the aggregate, a sort of statistical probability. All we can say is if one is loving and compassionate, he/she is more likely to receive love and compassion in return.

He follows this up with his usual, inimitable call to raise above caste barriers and 'parochial pride', elevate lives and a 'more just, loving, and compassionate society.'

For argument sake, let us say that we agree with this principle. Then, this raises some issues:

• How does an individual 'elevate' their life by being compassionate and just, presumably by dispensing with religion and spirituality, and living the life of comfort (supposed to be) afforded by science?

• In other words, can science in all its ramifications of knowledge such as economics, politics, social sciences, military science, Infotech, technology and so on and so forth, make the individuals at all their levels of sustenance compassionate and just? If it can, why hasn't it happened?

• There can be only one truth: either everything--including love, compassion and justice--must be pure materialism, if one were to believe physical science, or the final reality must be beyond the physical. So, how do we--everyone of us at all levels, because all of us generate karma--transform our lives by living (can we say) the purest/most altruistic material life? Can the scientists, agnostics and atheists develop a universal code of conduct and program it in the practical reality of daily life for everyone?

If there is only 'an aggregate' which in itself is a 'statistical probability' to all the cause and effect of karma, and that this is only in the material world, it would be like everyone dissoloving a small amout of asafoetida in the ocean--கடலில் கரைத்த காயம் போல. So, why bother with doing good and bad, if there is no life (soul) and only one life, and that is only physical?

Shri saidevo, a perfect post with absolute questioning and reasoning. Waiting eagerly for a counter argument from the other side without any ambiguity.

 

[Nara]

• How does an individual 'elevate' their life by being compassionate and just, presumably by dispensing with religion and spirituality, and living the life of comfort (supposed to be) afforded by science?

Yes, this is certainly part of it.

• In other words, can science in all its ramifications of knowledge such as economics, politics, social sciences, military science, Infotech, technology and so on and so forth, make the individuals at all their levels of sustenance compassionate and just? If it can, why hasn't it happened?

Saidevo, science is a process that makes us understand our environment better, that is all. Scientific discoveries are used by people for their own purposes, some are good, some are bad. To expect science to make all of us loving and compassionate is a mistake. They come from human nature, fine tuned by eons of evolution.

• There can be only one truth: either everything--including love, compassion and justice--must be pure materialism, if one were to believe physical science, or the final reality must be beyond the physical.

The proposition that there is a final reality beyond the physical is baseless, no evidence to support it.

So, how do we--everyone of us at all levels, because all of us generate karma--transform our lives by living (can we say) the purest/most altruistic material life? Can the scientists, agnostics and atheists develop a universal code of conduct and program it in the practical reality of daily life for everyone?

Developing a code and imposing it on people is what religions have done. Science tells us that love and compassion are as much part of human nature as purely self-interest. When a child falls into a well and a bystander jumping in to save the child is not because of any man-made code imposed from up above, not because of any premeditated hope for reward in a life after death, not out of fear of punishment if he/she just watched the child drown. The bystander instinctively jumps in to save the child because that is what is in our DNA, we can't help it.

Some who act in cruel way or in an antisocial way do so also because of DNA. But we have secular laws to discourage such conduct, and punish if the laws do not deter, just as much as we heap adulation upon the bystander jumping in to save the child.

Therefore, this karma theory that transcends the present life is baseless superstition -- Tamil has a better word for this, மூட நம்பிக்கை.

If there is only 'an aggregate' which in itself is a 'statistical probability'

This is not what I said, and I don't know what you mean. My view is, for individual action, the result is not totally deterministic, like in a mathematical equation. For example, the adage what goes around comes around, can only be most probably true, no ironclad guarantee.

Note that only religions offer such ironclad guarantee -- if businesses give this kind of guarantee they will be accused of fraud.

to all the cause and effect of karma, and that this is only in the material world, it would be like everyone dissoloving a small amout of asafoetida in the ocean--கடலில் கரைத்த காயம் போல. So, why bother with doing good and bad, if there is no life (soul) and only one life, and that is only physical?

Why bother, because we can't help it but to bother, it is in our DNA. We don't need man-made religions to tell us to be good.

Isn't it ironic that the very purpose of religion is supposed to tell us how to be good, and yet, judging from the fact it has wrought untold misery to untold millions of people, it has utterly failed in its central mission.

BTW, if everyone dissolves a small amount of asafoetida in the ocean, believe me, you will see the effect. We all emit small amounts of carbon into the atmosphere, but the cumulative effect is global climate change. Each of us throw a little bit of garbage into Gangai, the cumulative effect is Gangai turned into sewer-like.

Cheers!

 

[sravna]

Shri Nara,

If Science were just to be a source of knowledge and not influence people's attitudes and behavior your arguments may sound valid. But people do get influenced unfortunately to their detriment because success of technology tends to make them more materialistic, a philosophy which is not conducive for practicing human values. I think it is also the success of science and technology that sowed the seeds for the now widespread atheism at least in the west. The trend is catching up in other places too. Materialistic inclinations along with the perception of moral impunity is a true disaster.

 

[Yamaka]

namaste.

Yamaka said in post #9:
if Karma means ACTION happening in this world...by the activities of individuals, and individuals will reap the consequences of their ACTION... I understand this, and largely agree without any hesitation...

However, if you walk into the world of "Janma Poorva Karma" and its consequences...then I must stand up and shout

"It's all HOAX, designed to cheat innocent people".

The futility of such argument is self-evident. The beautiful Sanskrit term karma (like dharma) means action, which is both cause and effect. If there is a guarantee that all actions every individual will certainly have their consequences before the individual dies, this world will be a far better place to live in!

Since it is not happening, and if one 'stands up and shouts' that pUrva janma karma is 'all HOAX', that person needs to explain how the consequences still awaited to happen to actions already committed by an individual are disposed. Perhaps another anamoly of Nature, or is it alright to cause actions and not face consequences?

"Since it is not happening, and if one 'stands up and shouts' that pUrva janma karma is 'all HOAX', that person needs to explain how the consequences still awaited to happen to actions already committed by an individual are disposed. Perhaps another anamoly of Nature, or is it alright to cause actions and not face consequences?"

1. In post #10, Mr. Nara has answered this question..

2. My contention is once the person is dead and gone, everything sets to zero (no possible reaction to the action happened in his life time)..he or his soul NEVER ever gets reborn..

Theists in their mental bombast will say "Soul is recycled... person is reborn to payoff the "debt" he accumulated in the "previous birth"".

This I stoutly oppose... this will NEVER ever happen. There is no possible mechanism... it exists only in Theology and not in REALITY.

This is how Theists created Enigma... to instill FEAR in the minds of the innocent followers!

A ploy to control, regulate and dominate OTHERS...

Stay tuned.

 

[Yamaka]

I am not able to understand why many people are not able to accept the concept of soul. It only seems to me this is the bane that science and technology has bestowed upon many of us. The day science or technology is unable to reconcile observation with a physical theory or when technology fails inexplicably, these people would finally wake up. This has already happened with modern physics. With out the concept of soul scientific knowledge wouldn't consummate.

In Shri Yamaka's style, let's wait and watch.

Hello Sravna:

I read your posts regularly... to tell you the truth most of you write I just can't understand. Probably, my problem.

On Soul, Consciousness and the like -

As a professional Neuroscientist this is what I know so far (granted billion other things we just don't know as yet)

Soul is the property collectively acquired by the Sensory Neural Circuits (this is a very unique property similar to what a Forest gains not exhibited in the individual trees)... this Soul disappears once the Sensory Neurons of the Circuitry die...it just can't exist after neuronal death, period.

As life has no rebirth, Soul has no rebirth, period.

A full disclosure - I don't believe in any God or Religion... I have not prayed to any Vedic/Puronic or Abrahamic God for anything in the past 40 years..

I am just a simple human being happily living in harmony with Nature... I am a Naturalist.

Cheers.

 

[renuka]

I am not able to understand why many people are not able to accept the concept of soul. It only seems to me this is the bane that science and technology has bestowed upon many of us. The day science or technology is unable to reconcile observation with a physical theory or when technology fails inexplicably, these people would finally wake up. This has already happened with modern physics. With out the concept of soul scientific knowledge wouldn't consummate.

In Shri Yamaka's style, let's wait and watch.

I think I can guess why?? They need some more janams.
I was just thinking that God knows once upon a time in a previous life anyone of us could have had thoughts that didnt accept soul,god etc.
We evolved spiritually I guess.
So now I am going to log off and sleep and give myself a pat on my back and Thank God I evolved.
I know this post of mine sounds arrogant but who cares!!!

Good nite... keep up your good work Srvana.

 

[Nara]

.... The notion of compassion, fairness, love etc. doesn't go hand in hand with the philosophy of materialism...

sravna, such declarative statements have no value in a discussion. Compassion and love are experienced by everyone, it is not an emotion predicated upon whether the person is a theist or atheist.

It is the height of irony that people who believe in spiritual values are blamed for lack of compassion or empathy by the people who mainly pay lip service to such values.

Wait sravna, you are letting your imagination loose. I don't recall anybody saying, "people who believe in spiritual values are blamed for lack of compassion or empathy..."

My contention is this, (i) we don't need religion or spirituality to lead a good life of love and compassion, and (ii) it takes religion or spirituality to make an otherwise good, loving and compassionate person to sometimes act in abominable ways.

Their precept is such a glaring inconsistency with what they practice that I am surprised they make their accusations publicly.

sravna, I have stated my position above. It can be seen to be true like the back of the palm on your hand. Any inconsistency you may see is nothing more than illusion.

... But people do get influenced unfortunately to their detriment because success of technology tends to make them more materialistic, a philosophy which is not conducive for practicing human values.

Once again, go back and read my response above. Human values by definition are of this physical/material realm. Spirituality by definition is non-human resulting in many inhuman consequences.

I think it is also the success of science and technology that sowed the seeds for the now widespread atheism at least in the west.

Haven't you heard of ancient atheists from good old Bharatavarsha? About the same time the Greeks were at it too. Atheism is as old as theism itself.

Materialistic inclinations along with the perception of moral impunity is a true disaster.

What in the world are you implying here, "perception of moral impunity"? Shucks, you are now making me mad.

It is this materialistic inclination that you scoff at that has ushered in benefits that were unimaginable even 50 years ago. It is modern materialistic inclinations that make it possible for people from across the globe to respond to natural disasters that take place half way around the world. It is materialistic inclinations that has given relief to countless poor people suffering from a whole host of problems.

On the other hand, it is the spiritual people who tell these wretched people that they deserve all their misfortune because of some poorva-janma karma, or to convert before helping, or it is a way god loves them -- nonsense.

In my considered opinion, the peddlers of poorva-janma karma, grace/good work, submission, are the most immoral people to inhabit this earth, for they bring misery to people when they are alive, with a promise of reward after they are dead.

Cheers!

 

[sravna]

Hello Sravna:

I read your posts regularly... to tell you the truth most of you write I just can't understand. Probably, my problem.

On Soul, Consciousness and the like -

As a professional Neuroscientist this is what I know so far (granted billion other things we just don't know as yet)

Soul is the property collectively acquired by the Sensory Neural Circuits (this is a very unique property similar to what a Forest gains not exhibited in the individual trees)... this Soul disappears once the Sensory Neurons of the Circuitry die...it just can't exist after neuronal death, period.

As life has no rebirth, Soul has no rebirth, period.

A full disclosure - I don't believe in any God or Religion... I have not prayed to any Vedic/Puronic or Abrahamic God for anything in the past 40 years..

I am just a simple human being happily living in harmony with Nature... I am a Naturalist.

Cheers.

Shri Yamaka,

Belief in science doesn't have to preclude belief in soul or spirituality. As you say there are still a number of things that cannot be scientifically explained and so why do you summarily dismiss the knowledge gained through spiritual methods? Just as technology aims at making people's life physically comfortable, spirituality aims at making people's mental life comfortable. To me the knowledge responsible for the latter is more real and useful. I trust such knowledge much more than the former.

Why do you think that theologists have to mislead people? What you say is more in tune with a materialist's mentality. Hinduism especially is all about guiding you towards moksha or liberation and is in no way designed for keeping people under its control