There Is No Text Called Truth.

[renuka]

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I am reading a religious text of a different kind today..just to gain info(read..its just for info).A Hindu text that I have never read before.

It seems to have emerged as a reaction to a earlier philosophy.I wonder if the substratum for it to emerge was fear?

That is to "know" Reality is actually "fearful" in the sense it gives you nothing to hold on before it finally unfolds within us.

The cold darkness before we switch on the sun within is.

The transient fearful journey is not too easy for the human mind I feel.

If there is no Lord to perceive and there is actually only the One and Only Self..it can seem extremely scary becos that calls for the Death of Ego.

The human ego is the most difficult to give up..the human ego will go to any extent to defend itself..when at the final stage when Ego has to go..this would make many run back to beliefs that can make him/her secure.

I feel some philosophies give a person a cradle to be rocked on..so that he is put to sleep with the lullaby of dualism.

One goes into deep sleep where it seems comfortable.There is no need to even be awake.The sleep is so comfortable. There is no rebellion..there is no change.

Commentaries have been written in volumes on Gita/Brahma sutra/Upanishads etc..each Acharya has written some commentary or the other.

All seem to be conflicting most of the time.

So who is right? They are both right not becos its the Truth..but becos one can only write a commentary on knowledge but not on Truth.

Is there any text called Truth?

Nope..none..Truth verily Is..it cant be described..it can only be felt.

The presence of which no words form in the mind..hence only silence prevails.

Has anyone written a Bhasya on silence?

 

[krish44]

I like the thought that human ego is difficult to give up. it will go to any extent to defend itself.

if it has to go, then running to religious beliefs for security is hardly the answer.

there is only one and only self

the alternative is mental and physical death if ego is to be done away with.

no sense in hiding from oneself

keeping away from religion is not an option , it is a necessity for well being of an individual.

I have missed the sunday philosophical post this week because of JJ affair and Modi in newyork and timely breakfast.lol

 

[renuka]

keeping away from religion is not an option , it is a necessity for well being of an individual.

The word 'Religion" has been sadly twisted to mean "Regiment".

Religion is all about Freedom but we have made it into a Regiment and imprisoned ourselves.

Now we need Sravna to join in the discussion!

 

[krish44]

read Atlas shrugged By Ann Rand to boost your ego.

Better option.

 

[renuka]

read Atlas shrugged By Ann Rand to boost your ego.

Better option.

Why should anyone want to boost the ego?

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

You are right. Truth has to be personally experienced. But one who has experienced the truth can impart it as knowledge. The problem with saying that this is truth or that is truth is that since it is a personal experience people may differ on what is truth. It totally depends on the mental maturity of the person to come to a correct understanding of truth.

 

[renuka]

Dear Renuka,

You are right. Truth has to be personally experienced. But one who has experienced the truth can impart it as knowledge. The problem with saying that this is truth or that is truth is that since it is a personal experience people may differ on what is truth. It totally depends on the mental maturity of the person to come to a correct understanding of truth.

Dear Sravna,

Truth can not be imparted..one can only guide another to find it themselves.

May be thats why Lord Buddha remained silent on the concept of God. He knew that one has to know it for themselves.

The moment we start to preach..that ceases to be Truth becos the mind starts to condition it.....It only becomes "dry" knowledge.

 

[renuka]

Dear Sravna,

People can only have different experiences on knowledge that goes thru the senses.


The famous example of the blind men and the elephant is not accurate when it comes to Truth becos the blind men were using their sense of touch to feel various parts of the elephant.

So that was knowledge gain thru the sense of touch and not the Truth interpreted differently.

Even in Ekam Sat Viprah Bahuda Vadanti there is still some amount of Duality..becos its only thru senses one can speak of it in many ways.

Truth verily is..nothing can be said about it.

May be thats why the word Viprah is used..Viprah means one with knowledge but it need not mean one who is realized.

The one with knowledge speaks..the one who knows is silent.

 

[sravna]

Dear Sravna,

Truth can not be imparted..one can only guide another to find it themselves.

May be thats why Lord Buddha remained silent on the concept of God. He knew that one has to know it for themselves.

The moment we start to preach..that ceases to be Truth becos the mind starts to condition it.....It only becomes "dry" knowledge.

Yes Renuka I agree. It can be expressed though one has to find truth oneself. Buddha was silent on the concept of god because the concept of god is something that is not describable.

 

[renuka]

Yes Renuka I agree. It can be expressed though one has to find truth oneself. Buddha was silent on the concept of god because the concept of god is something that is not describable.

Dear Sravna,

Ok since there is agreement here..I would like to ask a rather contradicting question to what I just wrote about.

That is..if we have to eventually know ourselves and the Truth can NOT be taught..how is a Guru supposed to guide us?

How many Gurus actually lead us to eventually let go our hands?

Gurus do not want to let go their Shisya's hands out of fear that if they let go the Shisya..the Guru is not needed anymore.

The Guru will start to have "Empty Ashram Syndrome"

May be the fear of an "Empty Ashram Syndrome" made Gurus become Regimental and Imposing and clipped the wings of Freedom in Religion...that gave birth to various schools of thought.


In fact the Dvaita text I am reading now seems to project that the writer is searching every possible Veda for the word Vishnu to prove that Brahman = Vishnu.He wants to prove that more than anything else.


What say you?

 

[sravna]

Dear Renuka,

It is not that truth cannot be taught. Truth can be taught and that is guidance. It is ultimately the personal experience that helps one realize the truth. Correct guidance will hasten the learning process. We may also wrongly mistake something as truth even based on personal experiences. But eventually we learn the truth given enough personal experiences and good guidance.

 

[mkrishna100]

Truth verily is..nothing can be said about it.

Dear Renukaji

I am sharing what my Vedanta Teacher Swami Paramarthananda has said i.e self knowledge is not possible by self effort .It needs the help of Guru + Shastras ( here Sashtras means Vedas/Upanishads ) . Vedas in Traditional Indian Sampradaya is viewed as the Sixth Sense , an independent Pramana whose help we need to take for self knowledge through the help of a Guru .
With 5 senses we can discover the truth and so we need the extra Sixth Sense and the extra Sixth sense is the Veda.

There are some people who are exception to this rule like Ramana Maharshi who did not gave a Guru or study the sastras in this Janma .But these are exceptions and not should not be taken as the rule .

If you say that Vedas are nothing but just cock and bull story like the way it is interpreted by Atheists /Rationalists then such a person cannot be helped to discover the Higher truth . He /She may be a good secular human being but things will go smoothly till they reach a crisis point in their lives ( like how it happened for Arjuna ) and they will find all their knowledge through 5 senses is of little use to handle those crisis .

So if you want to discover the Higher truth be willing to first accept Veda /Upanishad as the Pramana and seek the Guidance of a competent Acharya to study the Upanishads under their guidance for a long period of time to understand the higher truth through the 3 process of Shravanam( First listen to what is said ) ,Mananam ( get your doubts clarified through discussion and posing questions ) , Niddhidhyasanam ( internalize the truth through self reflection ) .

Now the next question you may ask who is the True Guru ? and I can give a list of some very good Acharayas for the same . In fact I follow the Advaita Vedanta Sampradaya through the teachings of Swami Paramarthananda whom I consider as my Guru for self knowledge . I do not know whether he may be of interest to you .I was also going round and round through self study and doing intense Yoga Practice to discover so called Truth but was always disappointed till I found my Gudiance in Swami Paramarthananda who made it clear that unless and until you are willing to accept Veda as a Pramana you will be going round and round .
And he himself told how to identify a true Guru for self knowledge :
1) He /She does not ask for money for self knowledge
2) Talks his/her experience instead of interpreting the scriptures( i.e Upanishads ) as per the bashyas
3) Tries to give you a spiritual experience or do some siddhis to attract people .
4) Tells that he /she has discovered a new unqiue way that no one has ever discovered in the Past and he alone knows the truth .


If anyone calling as Gurus of self knowledge says one of the above 4 then he told that we must run away from that place as far as possible .

No doubt there ware many fake Gurus and fake ashrams world over and this has been going for thousands of years but at the same time there are also some true Gurus who impart self knowledge with a pure spirit .I have found the same in Swami Paramarthananda whose Gita talks I attend in Chennai every week ( i.e Shravanam for me ) and whom I do meet in person once in a while to get my doubts clarified ( i.e Mananam for me ) and I am not yet qualified to do Niddhidhyasanam .

By the way I wish to point out that apart from attending Swamiji's Gita Classes which is based on Shankara Bashya ,I do read the works of Buddha and other Rationalist and Atheists to know the counter opinions about our sastras so that I have an allroudn view of the same .

So in essence if Truth cannot be Taught then all our Upanishads must be blank pages or all our Acharays must be idiotic people to write exhaustive commentaries on the Upanishads . So the choice is yours
1) to accept that Vedas give us the Higher Truth and I need to approach an acharya /Guru for the same and seek the Guidance of Guru + Sastras to dicover the highr truth or
2) Keep going round and round in discovering the truth by yousrelf through your own self study etc or
3) Consider Vedas to be nothing but cock and bull story or just bullshit like the way it is being talked about by Atheists /Buddhists etc and follow the path of Buddha /Atheist/Rationalist and discover for yousrelves what is to be discovered .

For me I follow Point 1 and follow the Adviata Samparadaya of Shankarachara and I am aware of other sampradayas also like Dwaita /Vishistaadvaita but I stick to Advaita as I am born in a Samartha Brahmin Family and I stick to the same plus I resonate with Acharaya Shankara's interpretation .I have nothing against other Sampradhayas and feel it is best each individual follows the sampradhaya they are born with .I am also aware of the arguemnts of the Buddhists/ Rationalists /Atheists and I have no complaints with the same and feel they have a right to have a counter opinion and they are also right in many respects with regard to some wrong actions done in the past in the name of Varna Dharma . I have highest respect for Buddha's 8 fold path and the mindfullness meditative techniques of many Buddhist Masters and do follow Thich Nhat Hanh and Pema Chodron's meditative teachings and also have high respect for the rational approach of the Atheists /Rationalist and it has helped me remove many of the un-necessary mental baggage that I used to carry with me .The Indian Constitution has addressed those issues raised by Atheists /Rationalists ) but just because some past mischief was done in the name of Vedas /Vedic Dharma I am not willing to throw everything into the dustbin like the way the Atheists /Rationalists /Buddhist want it to be done .


I have no arguments with people who have counter opinions to what I have and they have a right to the same .I have only expressed what I wanted to share and what I have found sensible in my case .

 

[renuka]

Dear Renukaji

I am sharing what my Vedanta Teacher Swami Paramarthananda has said i.e self knowledge is not possible by self effort .It needs the help of Guru + Shastras ( here Sashtras means Vedas/Upanishads ) . Vedas in Traditional Indian Sampradaya is viewed as the Sixth Sense , an independent Pramana whose help we need to take for self knowledge through the help of a Guru .
With 5 senses we can discover the truth and so we need the extra Sixth Sense and the extra Sixth sense is the Veda.

There are some people who are exception to this rule like Ramana Maharshi who did not gave a Guru or study the sastras in this Janma .But these are exceptions and not should not be taken as the rule .

If you say that Vedas are nothing but just cock and bull story like the way it is interpreted by Atheists /Rationalists then such a person cannot be helped to discover the Higher truth . He /She may be a good secular human being but things will go smoothly till they reach a crisis point in their lives ( like how it happened for Arjuna ) and they will find all their knowledge through 5 senses is of little use to handle those crisis .

So if you want to discover the Higher truth be willing to first accept Veda /Upanishad as the Pramana and seek the Guidance of a competent Acharya to study the Upanishads under their guidance for a long period of time to understand the higher truth through the 3 process of Shravanam( First listen to what is said ) ,Mananam ( get your doubts clarified through discussion and posing questions ) , Niddhidhyasanam ( internalize the truth through self reflection ) .

Now the next question you may ask who is the True Guru ? and I can give a list of some very good Acharayas for the same . In fact I follow the Advaita Vedanta Sampradaya through the teachings of Swami Paramarthananda whom I consider as my Guru for self knowledge . I do not know whether he may be of interest to you .I was also going round and round through self study and doing intense Yoga Practice to discover so called Truth but was always disappointed till I found my Gudiance in Swami Paramarthananda who made it clear that unless and until you are willing to accept Veda as a Pramana you will be going round and round .
And he himself told how to identify a true Guru for self knowledge :
1) He /She does not ask for money for self knowledge
2) Talks his/her experience instead of interpreting the scriptures( i.e Upanishads ) as per the bashyas
3) Tries to give you a spiritual experience or do some siddhis to attract people .
4) Tells that he /she has discovered a new unqiue way that no one has ever discovered in the Past and he alone knows the truth .


If anyone calling as Gurus of self knowledge says one of the above 4 then he told that we must run away from that place as far as possible .

No doubt there ware many fake Gurus and fake ashrams world over and this has been going for thousands of years but at the same time there are also some true Gurus who impart self knowledge with a pure spirit .I have found the same in Swami Paramarthananda whose Gita talks I attend in Chennai every week ( i.e Shravanam for me ) and whom I do meet in person once in a while to get my doubts clarified ( i.e Mananam for me ) and I am not yet qualified to do Niddhidhyasanam .

By the way I wish to point out that apart from attending Swamiji's Gita Classes which is based on Shankara Bashya ,I do read the works of Buddha and other Rationalist and Atheists to know the counter opinions about our sastras so that I have an allroudn view of the same .

So in essence if Truth cannot be Taught then all our Upanishads must be blank pages or all our Acharays must be idiotic people to write exhaustive commentaries on the Upanishads . So the choice is yours
1) to accept that Vedas give us the Higher Truth and I need to approach an acharya /Guru for the same and seek the Guidance of Guru + Sastras to dicover the highr truth or
2) Keep going round and round in discovering the truth by yousrelf through your own self study etc or
3) Consider Vedas to be nothing but cock and bull story or just bullshit like the way it is being talked about by Atheists /Buddhists etc and follow the path of Buddha /Atheist/Rationalist and discover for yousrelves what is to be discovered .

For me I follow Point 1 and follow the Adviata Samparadaya of Shankarachara and I am aware of other sampradayas also like Dwaita /Vishistaadvaita but I stick to Advaita as I am born in a Samartha Brahmin Family and I stick to the same plus I resonate with Acharaya Shankara's interpretation .I have nothing against other Sampradhayas and feel it is best each individual follows the sampradhaya they are born with .I am also aware of the arguemnts of the Buddhists/ Rationalists /Atheists and I have no complaints with the same and feel they have a right to have a counter opinion and they are also right in many respects with regard to some wrong actions done in the past in the name of Varna Dharma . The Indian Constitution has addressed those issues but just because some past mischief was done in the name of Vedas /Vedic Dharma I am not willing to throw everything into the dustbin like the way the Atheists /Rationalists /Buddhist want it to be done .

I have no arguments with people who have counter opinions to what I have and they have a right to the same .I have only expressed what I wanted to share and what I have found sensible in my case .

Dear Sir,

Are these your words or the words of your Vedanta Guru?

Its not clear from your posts..which are your words and which are his but I will reply anyhow.

In my OP I had not used the word Cock and Bull anywhere.

All I asked said is "There is no text called Truth"..that does not mean that other texts are the Untruth.

I was merely emphasizing that Truth in its purest form can NOT be preached.It can only felt.

Only knowledge can be passed from generation to generation.Knowledge is facts and data.

Facts and Data can only guide us to a limited extent.We have to experience the truth "ourselves" finally.

I feel its not easy for anyone to leave the boat of tradition and knowledge once one reaches the shore.

Its like a man who has been freed from prison but he does not want to leave prison.

The prison was to let him learn his mistakes but he fell in love with the prison and does not want to leave it.

I feel we do not have to call anything cock and bull but when its time to let go everything... even the Cock that awakened us from slumber and the Bull that pulled the Bullock Cart of life has to be left behind finally.

When you got to go..you just have to go.

BTW nothing can be technically "thrown away"..it only lands in the Cosmic Recycle Bin.

One can only let go.

 

[mkrishna100]

Are these your words or the words of your Vedanta Guru?

It is both .The broader insights are his and I have put in my own words .I value his words but still on the way on my own discovery .

We have to experience the truth "ourselves" finally.

The Truth is to discover who is the experience of all these experiences .This is where help is needed from the Guru + Sastras .

I feel its not easy for anyone to leave the boat of tradition and knowledge once one reaches the shore.

It depends upon the individual i.e whether he is interested in the tradition or in truth . Unripe people are unable to let go ,for the ripe things automatically let goes .The Sastras themselves say at the end of Self Knowledge there is no guru or sishya .If still a sishya feels he needs the support of the Guru then he is unripe and that is why the 3 stages of sdhana are there shravanam , mananam and niddhydhyasanam are there . You need Guru for the first and second step only .

When you got to go..you just have to go.

True when the fruit is ripe it automatically detaches but no fruit ripens in isolation . A supporting conducive environment is needed for the same . When we are young we play with toys and we automatically drop the toys and read novels when we grow up .If a collage student still plays with toys or need to be reminded by his parents to drop the toys then there is a problem with him and not the toys .But a married Man will again play with toys not for his sake but for the sake of his child .A true Guru is also like that he plays with the Scriptures not for himself but for the sake of his student and to respect the sampradhaya .He is detached inwards .

I was merely emphasizing that Truth in its purest form can NOT be preached.It can only felt.

Yes Sastras themselves say that Truth in its purest form is Silence and we have the example of Sri Dakshinamurthy and in recent times Sri Ramana Maharshi as a popular examples .Buddha is also an exmaple .There are many mouna Gurus still in India and worldover and they may not be popular / known but they do continue to exist and I consider it a biggest blessing for those who come in contact with such Mouna Gurus .

Regarding preaching , as long as a student asks questions , a teacher needs to reply . If the teacher choose to remain silent then an unripe student will think that the teacher does not know the answer but a ripe student will be able to get it . The problem is not for a ripe student but only for a unripe student .

 

[renuka]

Yes Sastras themselves say that Truth in its purest form is Silence and we have the example of Sri Dakshinamurthy and in recent times Sri Ramana Maharshi as a popular examples .Buddha is also an exmaple . .

Didnt I say this in the OP?

About Truth and Silence?

That is why I also said that Bhasya can only be written on knowledge and not on Truth or Silence.

No one has written a Bhasya on the Silencing Truth becos when it is felt there are no more words.

So I guess now you have understood my OP.

Thank you for that.

BTW Kabir who did not have any formal knowledge of Sastras and Vedas echoed words that even the learned could never imagine.I guess Truth unfolds itself in ways not known.

Note: A teacher imparts knowledge.The Truth is "Dis-Covering".

 

[mkrishna100]

No one has written a Bhasya on the Silencing Truth becos when it is felt there are no more words.

All the bashyas that are written on Atma Vidya are only about the Higher Truth and the Shastars themselves point the 3 fold way .You are talking about the third level and I am taking about going through level 1 & 2 ( for most people except spiritual genius ) before a person reaches the third level . The Satsras themsleves accept this otherwise they would have said just read the scriptures and all will be OK .

BTW Kabir who did not have any formal knowledge of Sastras and Vedas echoed words that even the learned could never imagine.I guess Truth unfolds itself in ways not known.

Very true and the same for Sri Ramana Maharshi , Guru Nanak , Buddha . They are spiritual genius .
Srinivasa Ramanujam did not have any great Mathematical education but he was a Mathematical genius .But if you say I am not also going to learn Mathematics then you will fail .

Note: A teacher imparts knowledge.The Truth is "Dis-Covering".

Niddhidhyasanam is the process of discovering the Truth .If you are able to to that from the start very fine otherwise take the initial help of those who have discovered the same .

 

[renuka]

But you needed to write the same in this forum to express the same .


All the bashyas that are written on Atma Vidya are only about the Higher Truth and the Shastars themselves point the 3 fold way . You are talking about the third level i.e Niddhidhyasanam and I do agree with the same but I am also aware not all are born spiritual geniuses to be at the third level right from start .

I haven't claim to know the Truth.I was merely stating Data.I havent made claims that one has to hold the Vedas pramanyam and have a bonafide Guru to know the Truth.

Since you hold the Vedas Pramanyam and had a Bonfide Guru..have you Felt the Truth?

I am using the word Felt and not Know in my question to you..becos if I ask you "Do you know the Truth?" then your reply would be facts and data.

If I ask you "Have you felt the Truth"...If you choose to remain silent than I know your answer.

 

[mkrishna100]

If I ask you "Have you felt the Truth"...If you choose to remain silent than I know your answer.

Silence is no proof of knowing / unkowning the truth . A Brahmna Jnani is silent and an idiot also remains silent when asked a question .It does not mean both are at the same level .
The greatest Brahma Jnani of modern India Sri Ramana Mahrshi chose to remain silent most of the time but at the same time he did answer the questions posed to him by people and he did compose great works in Tamil and Sanskrit on Atma Vidya . There are few people who got his message of silence by spending just a couple of days with him and left happy that their search is over( like Papaji , Sri Lakshmana Swami . Read books of them by David Godman ) .There are a few who stayed with him for a long time and was guided by him in a unique way ( this different from devotee to devotee ) to discover that silence and many did discover .Some choose to share the same like Sri Annamalai Swamy .Kindly read the book "Living by the words of Bhagavan - Sri Annamalai Swami " written by David Godman . Many did not understand his silence and went away to follow their own traditional Gurus . My Grandfather ( from my mothers side ) did meet him but could not make much progress from his answers or from his silence and hence he choose to follow the teachings of Adi Shankarachara and Kanchi Mahaswaigal .However he had great respect for Sri Ramana Maharshi .I do not know whether he discovered the truth for himself ( I am not competent to say or cerify him ) but he lived a very detached life in his later years even while living in a family and went through all the good and bad times with a balanced state of mind .

Swami Chinmayananda the great Vedantic Guru met Sri Ramana Maharshi when he was a young person and at that time he was an atheist .He got a wonderful experience and was stunned by the same but the atheist in himself took that experience as a sort of mesmerism and dropped it .Later when he went to Swami Tapovan for Scriptural studies at the banks of Ganga in UttarKashi in the Himalayas and he reflected on his meeting with Sri Ramana Mahrshi and this is what Swami Chinmayananda said
After my college days, my political work, and after my years of stay at Uttarkashi at the feet of my master, Tapovanam I knew that what I gained on the Ganges banks was that which had been given to me years before by the saint of Tiruvannamalai on that hot summer day – by a mere look.

I hope the above statement of Swami Chinmayananda is self explanatory with regard to understanding the difference between having an experiencei.e feeling and understanding that experience .

Swami Chinmayananda did have the feeling /experince much before but his long years of stay and study with Swami Tapovan in Uttar Kashi that made him equate his understanding with that experience before .

In case of Sri Ramana Maharshi he did not force everyone to read Scriptures but whenever people talked of experience he use to ask questions back to the questioner "find out who is experiencing this ?" . That was his method .Those who got it got it ,those who did not get it did not get it .
Same with J Krishnamurti .He had his own method of questioning back the questioner and the process went on .Those who got it got it and those who did not get it , did not get it .
Zen teachers had their own method for pointing out the highest truth through Zen Koans and through their own unstructured methodology .Those who got it got it and those who did not get it , did not get it .

The above 3 teachers are basic examples of how people from beyond the tradition had their own method to point out the truth . People are free to choose them if they are not interested in the traditional methodology .

 

[renuka]

Dear Mkrish ji,

An atheist and a believer are actually the same on technical grounds.

Both have firm convictions.

Swinging from Atheism to Theism and back forth is the actually walking in circles.

The one who makes an attempt to experience the Truth steps out of the circle.

That is when the Truth looks at us...that is what Swami Chinamayananda was trying to convey.

By a mere look.....its the "Avalokiteshwara" moment..when Truth decides to give you a look.

 

[mkrishna100]

Renukaji

That is when the Truth looks at us...that is what Swami Chinamayananda was trying to convey

Truth looks at us not only through the Glance of a Jnani but also when u listen to the words of Guru - this happened in the Gita and in the Upanishads between the Teacher and Student . If only a look was needed Swami Chinmayananda would not have gone to Swami Tapovan and stayed with Sri Ramana Maharshi . By the way Swami Tapovan had also met Sri Ramana Maharshi when he was young but he did not stop there and continued his journey to the Himalayas to study with other Mahatmas and become a great teacher himself .If only a look was needed 18 chapters of Gita was not needed as Krishna and Arjuna were friends from a young age and only when Arjuna expressed his helplessness and dropped his Gandiva asked Lord Krishna to be his Guru did Lord Krishna start his teaching . So only when the student is ready the teacher is visible to offer his grace . Ramana Maharshi was looking with many people the same way but few people got it immediately , few got it after many years and few never got it .

Experiences like silence can also be deceptive .Not all experiences are equal and many of false experiences are used by fake gurus to attract students and keep them addicted to those experences in their ashrams .They mix some intoxicant in the food or drinks or mix some drug like herbs in the Homas and people start dancing feeling they are experiencing samadhi .Still in the Himalayan Tardition many sadhus use local drugs to get in to a high state .


Gurus ,Satsras always keep pointing the truth . Only a well prepared mind is able to perceive the same .Some get it instantly , for some it takes time , for some they never get it in this birth . If you need the help of sastras & gurus they are there to provide the help .It is not compulsory for everyone .Choice is up to the individual .

The topic of Knowledge v/s experince is an ongoing one for thousands of years .An American Vedantic Teacher by name James Swartz ( who has studied under Swami Chinmayanada and Swami Dayananda and who himself had gone through many so called many spiritual experiences ) has discussed this very elborately in his site and also through his books ( many are freely downloadable ) and here is the site : Untitled Document .

I very much resonate with him as I too was caught in the so called "experential trap " few years back through my own Yoga Sadhana , Mantra Sadhana , experience in presence of some Mahatmas etc where I did get to experience many spiritual experiences and only after coming in contact with my Advaita Teacher Swami Paramarthananda ( and now following the teachings of James Swartz ) that I was able to relate myself much better to what really are spiritual experiences and how much importance one must give it and how not to get trapped by it .

So that's all I have to say in conclusion .After a long gap having a good discussion here .All the best in your own discovery .

 

[tks]

Sri mkrishna

I always look forward to reading your posts but I do not scan all the threads.

Since there is no 'Like' feature anymore let me express that I resonated very well with many points you have made in your posts ..

 

[renuka]

So that's all I have to say in conclusion .After a long gap having a good discussion here .All the best in your own discovery .

Dear MK ji,

It was a pleasure reading your posts and I enjoyed the discussion.

Frankly speaking I am not planning to dis-cover anything. I do not have that desire.

I am not a Jijnaasu ..I am just surfer enjoying the waves.I have no intention of knowing the ocean.So there is no experiment too..I am not in a lab.

I just shared my thoughts ..that's all.

Anyway thank you very much for the useful links provided.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear MK ji,

It was a pleasure reading your posts and I enjoyed the discussion.

Frankly speaking I am not planning to dis-cover anything. I do not have that desire.

I am not a Jijnaasu ..I am just surfer enjoying the waves.I have no intention of knowing the ocean.So there is no experiment too..I am not in a lab.

I just shared my thoughts ..that's all.

Anyway thank you very much for the useful links provided.

NaichyAnusanthAnam--Good. LOL.

 

[renuka]

NaichyAnusanthAnam--Good. LOL.

Thank you..knowing the bipolarity of the human mind..who knows one might swing from NaichyAnusanthAnam to sAtvika ahamkAram the next moment!LOL

So to a certain extent Vaishnavaism caters for all types of human minds and gives us the "liberty" to "flirt" with the God Concept.

Of poets I have noted that Kabir used to swing from NaichyAnusanthAnam to sAtvika ahamkAram many times.

There was a poem where he sings on how he wants to play host for God the Guest and finally he shifts to a mode where he does not want to call God anymore and wants God to come chasing behind him.

Then there is a very beautiful delicate presentation where he even describes himself as a bride of God and then suddenly he does not want to respond to God calling out to him anymore.

Not that he does not believe in God but it hints about Total Union with God that there is no more Duality..there in only One..so he need not respond...for there is nothing to respond to.

 

[Vaagmi]

Thank you..knowing the bipolarity of the human mind..who knows one might swing from NaichyAnusanthAnam to sAtvika ahamkAram the next moment!LOL

So to a certain extent Vaishnavaism caters for all types of human minds and gives us the "liberty" to "flirt" with the God Concept.

Of poets I have noted that Kabir used to swing from NaichyAnusanthAnam to sAtvika ahamkAram many times.

There was a poem where he sings on how he wants to play host for God the Guest and finally he shifts to a mode where he does not want to call God anymore and wants God to come chasing behind him.

Then there is a very beautiful delicate presentation where he even describes himself as a bride of God and then suddenly he does not want to respond to God calling out to him anymore.

Not that he does not believe in God but it hints about Total Union with God that there is no more Duality..there in only One..so he need not respond...for there is nothing to respond to.

Yes that is all poetry. Very beautiful ones. You do not know Tamil and so I am unable to give here some of the Tamil poetry which are most beautiful. You are missing a lot. LOL.