This might be the story of all upward mobile person of Indian descent.

[Yamaka]

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Dhule: 10,000 prople re-converted to Hindu Dharma | News

Here it says "Hindu Dharma is Supreme"... This is what I call creating Conflict and Mayhem...

From this one would ask what happens to Christian Dharma or Islamic Dharma?

The mayhem is unfolding before our eyes in India: Hindu Supremacists fighting the Islamists, who want to wound India by 1000 cuts a day!

Here it says, "Morality will be destroyed if Hinduism is destroyed".... Hinduism or any other religion is NOT a necessity to lead a MORAL and Ethical life. This mindless blather is a marketing propaganda for Theists!

In fact, Poojas, bhajans and Prayers in Hinduism perpetuate or encourage debauchery, immorality and intemperance.

Because, immoral people believe that after each prayer, pooja and bhajans, their God has pardoned them... then they start to behave the same immoral way the next day!

Be careful, what you wish for!

 

[renuka]

Here it says "Hindu Dharma is Supreme"... This is what I call creating Conflict and Mayhem...

From this one would ask what happens to Christian Dharma or Islamic Dharma?

The mayhem is unfolding before our eyes in India: Hindu Supremacists fighting the Islamists, who want to wound India by 1000 cuts a day!

Here it says, "Morality will be destroyed if Hinduism is destroyed".... Hinduism or any other religion is NOT a necessity to lead a MORAL and Ethical life. This mindless blather is a marketing propaganda for Theists!

In fact, Poojas, bhajans and Prayers in Hinduism perpetuate or encourage debauchery, immorality and intemperance.

Because, immoral people believe that after each prayer, pooja and bhajans, their God has pardoned them... then they start to behave the same immoral way the next day!

Be careful, what you wish for!

Dear Yamaka,

You seem lost for words..I have seen this same words of yours repeated over and over again.As I said before you are Eco Friendly..recycling is your middle name.
Hey be creative yaar..for a scientist I am surprised that you seem to have a one track mind like horse with both side view covered.

 

[C RAVI]

Because, immoral people believe that after each prayer, pooja and bhajans, their God has pardoned them... then they start to behave the same immoral way the next day!

Be careful, what you wish for!

They are either basically immoral people but smart enough (with their ignorant brain/conscious) to take the shelter (thinking they are resuced) OR confused lots, misleaded by one track minded people who all reject GOD. Spirituality and Morality "all together".


The existence of such Immoral / Confused lots does not invariably mean nonexistence of GOD and Spirituality

 

[amala]

YamakaJi and Ravi,

I think they are just naive or doing it for self satisfaction. Also I'm sure they realise they are "immoral" but you know being "bad" is easy but becoming good is very very hard and takes a lot of personal effort. Praying is not enough. It has to come from within and is many times very painful, the effort, like hard work and sweat to always be conscious of yourself and do the right thing, it takes time.

And Ravi i dont think they are confused or mislead by anyone least of all people who reject God. Btw why call them one track mind? I don't think any of us is perfect to point such an ad hominem on anyone.

 

[C RAVI]

YamakaJi and Ravi,

And Ravi i dont think they are confused or mislead by anyone least of all people who reject God. Btw why call them one track mind? I don't think any of us is perfect to point such an ad hominem on anyone.

Amala,

I appreciate your diplomacy and social discipline. Keep it up and be in good books of all ever in your social circle.


There is no ad hominem in my post against any member here. Kindly refrain from projecting things negatively based on your principles of social discipline and respect.

I post my views considering the society in general. In a debate we have to split things/set of people in a certian way to put forward our views.

I would appreciate if in future you take debates as debates without being emotional due your fine qualities.

 

[amala]

misleaded by one track minded people who all reject GOD. Spirituality and Morality "all together".

Dear Ravi,

I wasn't being emotional. The above is what you said. If that isn't an ad hominem I dunno what is!

 

[C RAVI]

Dear Ravi,

I wasn't being emotional. The above is what you said. Ifthat isn't an ad hominem I dunno what is!

Amala,


There is no ad hominem in my post against any member here. Kindly refrain from projecting things negatively based on your principles of social discipline and respect.

I post my views considering the society in general. In a debate we have to split things/set of people in a certian way to put forward our views.

Find my reply above...

As well make a note of my statement in my post #28

"one track minded people who all reject GOD. Spirituality and Morality "all together"."

 

[sangom]

There is a lesser known side to the conversion and reconversion and re-re-conversion, etc. There are poor people, numbering tens of thousands in many parts of India who convert from Hindu to Christian faith attracted by the various inducements given by the Church, the most important of which is lumpsum cash aid to enable the converts to repay their existing debts. Hence poor people convert for money. May be the reconversion is also because of similar inducements. All the talk about greatness of Hinduism and all that is mere publicity stunt, imo.

 

[Nara]

....
I appreciate your diplomacy and social discipline. Keep it up and be in good books of all ever in your social circle.

Kindly refrain from projecting things negatively based on your principles of social discipline and respect.

[...]

I would appreciate if in future you take debates as debates without being emotional due your fine qualities.

It is never a good idea to get in between the disagreements of others, but then I have never been accused of being prudent.

Ravi, in this exchange, I actually find your response to be emotional, not that of Amala's. When I read the above post it came across to me as though you were mocking Amala for her diplomacy etc.

You may ask, "Who asked you, butt out" and if you did, you would be right and I have to butt out. But, please consider this, nobody likes to be called emotional, and it is particularly disagreeable when such a comment is directed at a woman as women have been made to carry the tag of being emotional rather than rational by the society for a long time.

Pardon me for the intrusion, I intend no harm ....

Cheers!

 

[C RAVI]

There is a lesser known side to the conversion and reconversion and re-re-conversion, etc. There are poor people, numbering tens of thousands in many parts of India who convert from Hindu to Christian faith attracted by the various inducements given by the Church, the most important of which is lumpsum cash aid to enable the converts to repay their existing debts. Hence poor people convert for money. May be the reconversion is also because of similar inducements. All the talk about greatness of Hinduism and all that is mere publicity stunt, imo.

With money we can buy anything...

Christian missionaries are not doing charity to poor Hindus free of cost. In return they are convertingn them to their faith.

Nothing to be surprised here and blame them.

With money people are spliting too good friends as partners in business and make the one suffer to the extreme, in order to secure one's business

With money people are spliting siblings to the extent of makign one murder the other.

With money and for money people are making a Son go against his parents, take them to court and humilate them.


In highly populated countries like India, Africa with poverty, people can be easily, practically, logically, convincingly converted to a particular faith that is offering them a promising life.

This can not nullify the greatness of Hinduism.

 

[C RAVI]

1) Ravi, in this exchange, I actually find your response to be emotional, not that of Amala's. When I read the above post it came across to me as though you were mocking Amala for her diplomacy etc.

2) nobody likes to be called emotional, and it is particularly disagreeable when such a comment is directed at a woman as women have been made to carry the tag of being emotional rather than rational by the society for a long time.

3) Pardon me for the intrusion, I intend no harm ....

Cheers!

Shri Nara,

I am answering you pointing 1, 2, 3..


1) You have chosen to consider my post as mocking Amala for her diplomacy, being emotional myself. It's your right and priviledge to take the way you want to sooth a girl. I am fine with it.

2) Claiming some one to be emotional is not an insult on any one that requires justifications. We are not living in olden era to tag women being emotional rather than rational. At least I don't consider that. All are same with equal rights, emotions, feelings and rational thoughts.

3) I appreciate your attempt to stand by Amala and support her claims. So there is nothing wrong on your part to pardon you. I would for sure take for granted that, you intend no harm to me.

 

[amala]

Thank you Shri Nara. I totally agree that many a time womens opinions have been dismissed as "emotional" and I honestly believe that is in itself an ad hominem of sorts. Things haven't changed all that much in 2011 it seems....

 

[amala]

There is a lesser known side to the conversion and reconversion and re-re-conversion, etc. There are poor people, numbering tens of thousands in many parts of India who convert from Hindu to Christian faith attracted by the various inducements given by the Church, the most important of which is lumpsum cash aid to enable the converts to repay their existing debts. Hence poor people convert for money. May be the reconversion is also because of similar inducements. All the talk about greatness of Hinduism and all that is mere publicity stunt, imo.

This post reminded me of my Tirupathi visit in 2007. We went by car from Chennai and while other family members were busy chatting away I was crushed to the window and I was pretty much enjoying the view and rural Andhra. I was counting the different churches we passed by from Pentescostal, to Seventh day Adventists, I counted upto about almost more than 100 churches and then gave up although there were plenty more. It was such a shock to me at the number of churches that had sprung up.

 

[Nara]

Thank you Shri Nara. .

What happened to Nara mama, since when I am Shri Nara?

 

[Haridasa Siva]

Ref. Post 38 by Amala

Dr.YSR has the "honours" for such a large number of churches in Thirupathi. Notwithstanding a ban on propagation of (non-Hindu) religion (I am making this statement under correction - Naraji may correct me if I am wrong), Christianity was propagated all through the area. Please remember that YSR took oath as Solomon and not as Rajasekara. That is secularism in India. And Congress has successfully projected YSR as a man of masses!! Wonder what the future generation would know him to be.

 

[C RAVI]

Thank you Shri Nara. I totally agree that many a time womens opinions have been dismissed as "emotional" and I honestly believe that is in itself an ad hominem of sorts. Things haven't changed all that much in 2011 it seems....

Dear Amala,

Though you have not personally registered your annoyance for my usage of "emotional" against you, your post to Shri Nara in post #37, reveals your disheartened state and the feel of upset.

Kindly pardon me. I did not intend to dismiss your opinion with cheap tactics to put a girl down and justify my comments. In your place if there would have been some one else, male or female I would have said the same.

Emotionally getting disturbed is not the only phenomina with women. Many gents do have such impacts. When a member leaves this forum out of some hurt feelings, it is nothing but their emotional disturbances. And all such withdrawing members were only males.

Since using ad hominem is not strange in this forum from long time till recently and especially when I have indicated certain type of people in society to support my views, I could see your contempt on my usage of "single track minded" as a couse of your emotional disturbance.

In your post #31, you have expressed that you were not been emotional. That's fine. But Shri Nara has made me and you too realize that, I got emotional (as per his feelings and was mocking you for your diplomacy, as per his feelings) and attempted (may be unknowingly out of ignorance) to tag a women with emotional rather rational, as male chauvinism. In your following post you have acknowledge the same and feeling sad to realize such male chauvinism existing even in 2011.


Anyways, it was my fault to have used "emotional" against you and for that I sincerely request you to pardon me.

I could now realize that, I should have used "sensitive" instead of "emotional". Than that would have not made Shri Nara and you upset.


Hope this clarifies..

 

[C RAVI]

Ref. Post 38 by Amala

Dr.YSR has the "honours" for such a large number of churches in Thirupathi. Notwithstanding a ban on propagation of (non-Hindu) religion (I am making this statement under correction - Naraji may correct me if I am wrong), Christianity was propagated all through the area. Please remember that YSR took oath as Solomon and not as Rajasekara. That is secularism in India. And Congress has successfully projected YSR as a man of masses!! Wonder what the future generation would know him to be.

Sri Haridasa,

The reason is many are the politicians with utter selfish motive supported by their one track mind to gain money, position and masses in any ways possible. What to do? This is how they are exploiting everything of India for their benefit.

 

[sarang]

All christian and muslim and politicians wear masks of secularism in public and fanaticism in private. Don't ask me to list the names - too many. Instead list who is not. They do everything to subvert hinduism and expand their cults.

 

[Nara]

... Notwithstanding a ban on propagation of (non-Hindu) religion (I am making this statement under correction - Naraji may correct me if I am wrong), .

Siva, I think the ban is only in the 7 hills, what Amala is talking about is on the way to Thiruppati in rural Andhra.

Please remember that YSR took oath as Solomon and not as Rajasekara. That is secularism in India.

Why do you think YSR taking office as Solomon means secularism in India is pseudo? He probably thought taking the oath with his Christian name would make him more committed to the oath. Also, from this it is obvious that YSR did not hide his Christianity, so why is that a problem for Indian secularism?

Cheers!

 

[Haridasa Siva]

Yes, Naraji, I meant the 7 hills area.

Well. YSR took oath as Solomon but he never projected himself as a christian. His second name was Reddy. Innocent masses could easily mistake him to be a Hindu. How many of us closely follow the oath? YSR is a sample for the vast majority of Indian politicians. They protect one caste/religion but project another. In any case, as I had mentioned in one of my threads in the Literature forum earlier, in my opinion "secularism" in India means "Anti-Hindu".

 

[Nara]

... YSR took oath as Solomon but he never projected himself as a christian. His second name was Reddy. Innocent masses could easily mistake him to be a Hindu.

Siva, I thought YSR/Congress won because rural farmers were upset with CB Naidu. Caste plays a big role in Indian politics, but, I am not convinced YSR concealed his Christianity for electoral gains, after all his own part is led by a Christian. Even so, that has nothing to with secularism.

in my opinion "secularism" in India means "Anti-Hindu".

This is what conservative Christians say about U.S. secularism. They insist U.S. is a Christian nation, like the Hindutva people insist India is a Hindu nation. They constantly complain U.S. secularism is a tool to suppress the Christian majority.

This tells me that majority will always complain if they are not able to keep the minority as second class.

Cheers!

 

[amala]

What happened to Nara mama, since when I am Shri Nara?

PS: At certain times/situations its far more prudent to just smile than say anything!

 

[Haridasa Siva]

This is what conservative Christians say about U.S. secularism. They insist U.S. is a Christian nation, like the Hindutva people insist India is a Hindu nation. They constantly complain U.S. secularism is a tool to suppress the Christian majority.

This tells me that majority will always complain if they are not able to keep the minority as second class.

I am not that clued up with US politics. You would obviously know it better. But I wonder whether the politicians (either ruling or opposition) of US would be against hanging of a person who attacks their parliament just because he belongs to a minority religion.

Naraji, notwithstanding our personal beliefs, it is indeed a fact that in India, if one supports Hinduism, one is a "fundamentalist" and if one is either against Hinduism or supports other religion (the so-called minority), then one is secular.

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Reference Post No.44
Many Politicians(mostly in Andhra Pradesh) use"Hindu" names to mislead the illiterate rural masses mostly Hindus.
There cannot be any objection for any one to keep any name,but to keep Hindu caste name for public consumption and another real name
denoting their faith only when they want to invoke Almighty God or their moral conscience,make one doubt their sincerity.
Even the former ChiefMinister and Union Home Minister when emergency was declared in 1975 was keeping hindu caste name though he was a Roman Catholic Christian.This is more prevalent only in Andhra Pradesh where conversion from Hinduism to Christian Faith is maximum.
Source:- My friend,a Brahmin Christian who is also a member of this Forum who was initially from Orthodox SV family,subsequently
changed his faith as a Christian and worked for an Evangelist Mission based in Dullas,Texas.

 

[sangom]

There are many Christians in Bengal and AP with hindu-sounding names - Brahmananda Reddy, Mukherjees, Bannerjees, Das-es and so on. It looks to me that in some period of British Rule and Missionary activity in India, this system got introduced so that the converts did not get physically attacked and socially ostracized by the Hindus. Local population knows their religious status; only people from other regions and far-away places fail to know it.

What was a ruse for self-protection once upon a time comes in handy today in a different way, that's all. But such converts are in every walk of life. I had a boss - one Mukherjee whom I considered to be a Bengali Brahmin (Mukhopadhyaya) till one real Mukhopadhyaya friend and colleague revealed that the boss was a Dalit convert to Christianity. A very refined and friendly person, his children were highly educated and settled abroad.