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Values of Punyam and Paapam

Interesting concept of previous birth.


: Values of Punyam and Paapam

It is well known that the MahaSwami, the Paramacharya of Kanchipuram would explain complex matters in a simple way. Once He explained the karma theory to a foreigner.

When his turn came for darshan of MahaSwami, the foreigner wanted clarification on some of his doubts on Hinduism. He pleaded to MahaSwami:

“Swamiji, I understand most of your concepts and value them. But I am not able to understand this karma theory: (i.e.) the same soul taking various births, paapa, punya being carried forward to the next births …. Can you please enlighten me on this aspect? Because, most religions say that we get the rewarded for what we do in this birth itself. If we are honest, God is pleased and blesses us with benefits and if we are dishonest, we get punished by Him in this birth itself".

At this point, MahaSwami asked him if he could do Him a favour by collecting some statistical information within Kanchipuram using his vehicle. The guest readily agreed, at the same time wondering why his question was not answered spontaneously.

“Please, Swamiji”. “Go ahead. What is the service you want me to do now?”

Periyava said, “Please go around 10 maternity centres within Kanchipuram and collect the data of children born within the last 2 days such as the child’s gender, health condition, parent’s name, status, educational qualifications and time of birth.

Within a day, he was back with all the statistics in front of MahaSwami. There were 15 children born in 10 hospitals of which 8 were female and 7 male. Three had malnutrition defects, 2 were the first children of rich parents and were born in luxury hospitals while 4 were children of labourers who already had few children.

Sri Maha Periyava now looked at the gentleman and started asking him a few questions:

Do you think any of these children have been honest or dishonest within 2 days of their birth? Probably they could not even recognise their own mother. So, they could neither have earned paapa or punya in this birth itself.

According to your concepts, all these children should be living exactly identical lives to each other, but not so practically, as some are ill, some are healthy, some are born to rich parents, some are born to poor parents. Remember all these children are born on the same day, same place with same longitude and latitude. Their horoscopes will be almost identical. So, you can’t blame their horoscope for the differences in their status!

The gentleman was speechless!

MahaSwami said "It is here that the concept of previous birth comes! All these children have taken their present birth according to their Karma and the resultant paapa, punya which they have accumulated from their previous births."

Sanatana Dharma was smiling at the gentleman through Maha Periyava!

Compiled by Jagadguru Sri Maha Periyava - Kanchi Paramacharya/

This Post is for sharing knowledge only, no intention to violate any copyrights.
 
According to your concepts, all these children should be living exactly identical lives to each other, but not so practically, as some are ill, some are healthy, some are born to rich parents, some are born to poor parents. Remember all these children are born on the same day, same place with same longitude and latitude. Their horoscopes will be almost identical. So, you can’t blame their horoscope for the differences in their status!
Are yow now saying that Horoscopes are Hogwash?
 
The story has only this much that without thinking about past karma phala fructifying now it will be not possible to explain discrepancy of diversity in birth.

This does not mean a geocentric model wherein sun and moon are planets and shadows ( Raju Ketu) are planets too will predict prarabdha karma phala. That is a belief. Anectodal , statistically unproven and harmful beliefs.

Sri Krishna teaches you that you have no birth. Why worry about past lives ? The wrong teachings and blunders of wrong interpretations over centuries have destroyed the grand vision of life expounded in Gita and Upanishad. Adi Sankara never talked about rebirth. Sambhavami yuge yuge has nothing to with avatara and birth. God is not extra cosmic and pervades here and now , where is the question of avatara.

Periyava teaching is an explanation with limited purpose to prevent a wrong thinking. That is all. It is not to prove what I truly am has birth or rebirth
 
Vivekachudamani says as follows: (504 verse)

पुण्यानि पापानि निरिन्द्रयस्य निश्चेतसो निर्विकृतेः निराकृतेः | कुतो ममाखण्डसुखानुभूतेः ब्रूते ह्यनन्वागत मित्यपि श्रुतिः ||

"How can there be for me puṇya and pāpa who am without organs, without mind, without change and form? How can these pertain to me who enjoy infinite bliss? In the passage, 'not touched' etc., Sruti also mentions this."

Here, Sri Sankara was talking about Atma or Soul, which remains untouched with puṇya and pāpa.

From the above, we can infer that the punya and paapa in the subsequent literature to Rig Veda, were used to denote the outcome of karmas done, good or bad, with the intention of getting results, as Karma done without expecting results does not give rise to any punya or paapa, but liberation - Sri Krishna says in BG.

कर्मण्येवाधिकारस्ते मा फलेषु कदाचन।

मा कर्मफलहेतुर्भूर्मा ते सङ्गोऽस्त्वकर्मणि।।2.47।।

In the film Chitralekha there is a song, that explains this better.

A gem from the pen of Sahir Ludhianvi, beautifully composed by Roshan and equally well sung by Lata Mangeshkar from the film Chitralekha (1964).
Sahir rejects the conception of sin and virtue established by organized religions in favor of a philosophy of universal hedonism. In the context of the film, Chitralekha uses this song to mock Ashok Kumar’s asceticism after he patronizes her with a sermon about giving up her sinful lifestyle to attain spiritual enlightenment.

sansār se bhāge phirte ho bhagvān ko tum kyā pāoge
is lok ko bhī apnā na sake us lok meñ bhī pachhtāoge

ye paap hai kyā ye punn hai kyā rītoñ par dharm kī mohreñ haiñ
har yug meñ badalte dharmoñ ko kaise ādarsh banāoge

ye bhog bhī ek tapasyā hai tum tyaag ke maare kyā jaano
apmān rachaitā kā hogā rachnā ko agar Thukrāoge

ham kahte haiñ ye jag apnā hai tum kahte ho jhūTā sapnā hai
ham janm bitā kar jā.eñge tum janm gañvā kar jāoge






 
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Renuka Madam, You TOO?? The Post is an incident happened in MAHA PERIYAVA's time when a Foreigner expressed his opinion on Karma Theory.. All those questioned the logic or argued must realize this..
 
NONE CAN COMMENT ON MAHA PERIYAVA's LEELA>> I do not understand how some members comment on Maha Periyava , who wanted to teach about Hindu View on Karma..to a Foreiner None of your comment is worth answering, because Periava was a Sage and you all ordinary Humans trying to comment and discuss..
 
Renuka Madam, You TOO?? The Post is an incident happened in MAHA PERIYAVA's time when a Foreigner expressed his opinion on Karma Theory.. All those questioned the logic or argued must realize this..
Dear PJ sir,
You misunderstood my post.
I posted that video just to add to the discussion.
The video is in line with what Maha Periyava has explained about karma.
In the video it just talks about karma and how it functions.
It matches fully with these word of Maha Periyava when he said

MahaSwami said "It is here that the concept of previous birth comes! All these children have taken their present birth according to their Karma and the resultant paapa, punya which they have accumulated from their previous births."
 
Dear PJ sir,
You misunderstood my post.
I posted that video just to add to the discussion.
The video is in line with what Maha Periyava has explained about karma.
In the video it just talks about karma and how it functions.
It matches fully with these word of Maha Periyava when he said

MahaSwami said "It is here that the concept of previous birth comes! All these children have taken their present birth according to their Karma and the resultant paapa, punya which they have accumulated from their previous births."
 
NONE CAN COMMENT ON MAHA PERIYAVA's LEELA>> I do not understand how some members comment on Maha Periyava , who wanted to teach about Hindu View on Karma..to a Foreiner None of your comment is worth answering, because Periava was a Sage and you all ordinary Humans trying to comment and discuss..
When it comes to do and don’t rules of a ritual discussion is not warranted. But when it comes to understanding Gita and many Upanishads present as conversation to encourage questioning.

Kanchi Periyava was a simple human being. His teachings in daivatthin kural was never to portray himself as a miracle maker. The so called devotees make him a deity and not try to understand the teachings. This weakens the practices of Hindu teachings.

Gita and Upanishad do not describe karma theory the way it is discussed. They teach that you don’t have birth or death

Rebirth discussion often used by Mahatmas to only point out a specific point which is not to blame an assumed God. Advita vedanta describes the truth about all these well but that is a different topic.

Bottom line. Questioning with view to understand is always encouraged in learning scriptures.
 

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