Vow to speak Brahmin Tamil

[athreya70]

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Good one vnkesavan.We are fanatical about everything (Not only language) IMHO.

 

[P R Subramanian]

Hi!

Greetings of the day,

One should not hate or criticize any other language, one would not know when one would be forced to learn some other language other than his own mother tongue. Apart from this one is almost forced to learn second language (it can be any) for communicating with others who do not know your language; or for a simple reason to speak/communicate with others if you happen to work in some other state where your mother tongue is not spoken.

I would hence say emphatically that being a linguist is more beneficial and better than knowing only one language.

Namaskarangal,

P R Subramanian

 

[wrongan]

கனிந்த மரமே பல கல்லடி படும்
இனிக்கும் கவிதையே சொல்லடிபடும்.

கனிந்த கனியையே கிளி கொத்தும்
கனியைச் சுவைத்து பாழாக்கும்.

dear madam i find no words to appreciate your wisdom as you put your proficiancy in all the threads
with regards wrongan

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Dear Mr. Ranganathan,

Long time... no see!

I was afraid that you too wanted to avoid my threads

Now I am happy to note that it is just a coincidence and not at all intentional.

The brunts we bear in our lives make us wise, strong and practical.

I have had more than the average quota allotted to a person!

May be it shows in my writings.

thanks for your feedback.

with warm regards,
V.R.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Dear Mr. P.R.subramanian, (# 202)

I think you are not be aware of the 'unwritten rules of the forum'!

The blood red color used by you is reserved for the moderators and for other

important announcements. Ink blue is for quotations and copy-pasted-portions.

Other than that you may use any colour- though most people settle for black.

No one told me and I had to learn this in the hard way. So I just want to save you

from the embarrassment later on

with best wishes,
V.R.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

" The more the merrier " is as true in learning languages

as in spending happy moments with our loved ones!

Never say "No" to an opportunity to learn a new language.

It is an additional asset for successful survival.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

dear Mr. vnkesavan, (#200)

What we don't use, we are bound to lose. It may be a skill, a language , an art or anything at all. We just seem to lose what we don't use.

So if we want to keep alive something very special to us, we must use it as often as possible!

we can talk in our dialect whenever and wherever possible. Otherwise it will vanish from the face of the earth. No point in lamenting later on!

There is no fanaticism in talking our language among ourselves, as long as we DO NOT force it on another person - who neither knows it nor wants to learn it.

Think it over!

with best wishes,
V.R.

 

[C RAVI]

Why this fanaticism? After all, a language is created and meant to help us in our day to day life and to communicate ideas.Whatever may be the plus points of a language, it only creates a divide. I am a Tamilian, Hindiwalla, Bengali Marathi etc etc. It restricts your area of action. The world is becoming smaller and smaller and more and more people are moving to other areas in search of greener pastures. You have to learn more languages to help better communication.
No language is God-send. Each one took years to evolve and new words and ideas made it richer. We have thousands of languages, living and dead, in the world and each one has its own merits and demerits. Some languages were created for political purposes and some for scientific. If English has attained prime position it is because it has no inhibitions. There are some tamil,Hindi, Sanskrit words in English. Why don't we adopt this attitude?

Dear vnkesavan,

In this thread we are evaluating the essence of Brhamin dialect and the effective & practical possibilities of its usage, so that we can continue to retain Brahmin dialect with rest of the dialect in this beautiful world of verities....

Here we are with positive attitude to sustain, appreciate and enjoy Brahmin style of communication and its appropriate usage as and where possible...So, don't be mistaken that we are having attitude problem and ignoring other languages..

Have the right attitude to go through all the post from the beginning and try to understand the contents in line with the subject of the thread. So far in this thread no member with correct understanding have advocated speaking only Brahmin Tamizh every where, unmindful of others embarrassments and or to neglect learning and speaking other languages...

Hope you will take the above in right spirit and be clear in your doubts and claims in future.

 

[T R RAMAMURTHY]

I have observed the thread. I want to raise a few fundamental questions. Whether in India is there any other language which has such variation in use by different castes as we have in Tamil. Or whether do we have Brahmin Telugu, Brahmin Malayalam, Brahmin Kannada etc. I have from this forum understood that ******* had their origin in Maharashtra. (Narmadayai Nama Prathaha, Narmadayai Namo Nishihi) Whether migration was the reason to create a different dialect? Having lived in different parts of North for last about 40 years, I have observed that despite being used in a vast tract of land, Hindi varies in geographical region use only but not on such caste lines. Whether good or bad, like the distinct Tamil smartha and vaishnava Madisar saree, brahmin Tamil has also an existence and has come to be recognised as a separate dialect. There is a need to protect it rather than indulge in arguments. Brahmin Tamil will now have an Universal version (like softwares) as we ******* are now spread across the world from Toronto to Sydney and also in all parts of India. Our common identity threads like language and culture need to be protected always whether we live in TN or outside.

 

[Iyer]

Hi!

Greetings of the day,

One should not hate or criticize any other language, one would not know when one would be forced to learn some other language other than his own mother tongue. Apart from this one is almost forced to learn second language (it can be any) for communicating with others who do not know your language; or for a simple reason to speak/communicate with others if you happen to work in some other state where your mother tongue is not spoken.

I would hence say emphatically that being a linguist is more beneficial and better than knowing only one language.

Namaskarangal,

P R Subramanian

Dear Mr. P.R.S,

I cannot agree more with you on this. Yet the point I am emphasizing is that, whatever language you speak, speak the most refined flavor of that language. For example, when speaking Engligh, speak as the Britishers speak. Do not imitate Americans who speak with an accent. In India people tend to imitate americans in everything including spoken English and they presume it is a matter of pride. On the contrary, we Tamil Brahmins, when speaking in Tamil, inside Tamil Nadu, with a person of some other community, tend to speak the Tamil flavor of the other community. We shy away from speaking in Brahmin Tamil, which imhop is the most refined and chaste form of Tamil, most 'mangalamana mozhi'. I am not saying we must condemn the Gounder Tamil or Nadar Tamil or Chettiar Tamil. Let Nadar speak in Nadar Tamil with a Nadar and likewise a Gounder with a Gounder etc. They don't feel shy speaking in their native flavor when speaking with Brahmins. But why do Brahmins feel shy to speak Brahmin Tamil when interacting with a person of another community, especially when inside Tamil Nadu!!! Thats what I am concerned about. Why should we try to hide our Brahmin identity for fear of criticism and meticulously avoid speaking Brahmin Tamil? So what if others know we are Brahmins. Let them know.

 

[Iyer]

I have observed the thread. I want to raise a few fundamental questions. Whether in India is there any other language which has such variation in use by different castes as we have in Tamil. Or whether do we have Brahmin Telugu, Brahmin Malayalam, Brahmin Kannada etc. I have from this forum understood that ******* had their origin in Maharashtra. (Narmadayai Nama Prathaha, Narmadayai Namo Nishihi) Whether migration was the reason to create a different dialect? Having lived in different parts of North for last about 40 years, I have observed that despite being used in a vast tract of land, Hindi varies in geographical region use only but not on such caste lines. Whether good or bad, like the distinct Tamil smartha and vaishnava Madisar saree, brahmin Tamil has also an existence and has come to be recognised as a separate dialect. There is a need to protect it rather than indulge in arguments. Brahmin Tamil will now have an Universal version (like softwares) as we ******* are now spread across the world from Toronto to Sydney and also in all parts of India. Our common identity threads like language and culture need to be protected always whether we live in TN or outside.

Dear Mr. TRS,

To the extent I have known and interacted with people of other linguistic groups, the Brahmins in almost every linguistic group, especially South Indians, have their own flavor of the native language. We have Brahmin Telugu, Brahmin Kannada, Nambudri Malayalam, Brahmin Marathi, Brahmin Bengali etc. And it is worthy to note, the Brahmin flavor in every language is the most refined in that language.

Regards,
Iyer

 

[Iyer]

Why this fanaticism? After all, a language is created and meant to help us in our day to day life and to communicate ideas.Whatever may be the plus points of a language, it only creates a divide. I am a Tamilian, Hindiwalla, Bengali Marathi etc etc. It restricts your area of action. The world is becoming smaller and smaller and more and more people are moving to other areas in search of greener pastures. You have to learn more languages to help better communication.
No language is God-send. Each one took years to evolve and new words and ideas made it richer. We have thousands of languages, living and dead, in the world and each one has its own merits and demerits. Some languages were created for political purposes and some for scientific. If English has attained prime position it is because it has no inhibitions. There are some tamil,Hindi, Sanskrit words in English. Why don't we adopt this attitude?

Dear Vnkesavan,

The intention of this thread is not to promote fanaticism. If that is your conclusion, then you have grossly misunderstood the spirit behind the posting of this thread. Again the emphasis on speaking Brahmin Tamil is confined to Tamil Nadu boundaries.

When inside Tamil Nadu, the land of origin of the Tamil language, when communicating with people of other communities, let Brahmins, the Tamil Brahmins I mean, speak in Tamil Brahmin Tamil. Let Tamil Brahmins not feel shy to speak in Brahmin Tamil. After all it is the most refined, most varnished, most polished, most melodious of all flavors of Tamil. Don't you think so!!!!

Regards,
Iyer

 

[Iyer]

I wish to make one point clear. Outside of Tamil Nadu, you speak whatever Tamil is most suitable. But when speaking in Tamil inside Tamil Nadu, please speak Brahmin Tamil and influence others also speak and to aspire to speak Brahmin Tamil. When many speak Brahmin Tamil, it will cease to be Brahmin Tamil and it will be accepted as the most refined flavor of Tamil.

 

[vnkesavan]

Dear madam, Thanks. I am very clear about what I said. There is no point in dividing a language into more splinter groups. For instance, There are so many divisions. Kovai salem, tanjai, Chennai, Palghat, Madurai, Nellai etc etc. In this thread itself, there was a talk about Nadar, Mudaliar, Iyer, Brahmin, Chettiar, Andhra, Saurashtra and so on. Even if you say brahmin tamil, it can get further divided into Iyer Tamil, Iyengar Tamil, madhwa, etc. Why not then mazhalai tamil, Teethless Tamil, girls Tamil, Boys Tamil? There is no end to it. After all a language encompasses all the groups within it.If you look at history, you can see that other Dravidian languages came into being by regularising separate groups as distinct languages.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

dear Mr.Vnkesavan,

The different dialects is not something belonging to India. Even in U.K there are different dialects.(Remember the professor in My fair lady?)

I am sure USA will be having its own varieties. After all variety is the spice of life.

Whether or not we give the names you have suggested 'Mazhalaith thamizh' is different. So also the 'toothless tamil', 'boy's tamil', 'Iyangar tamil', 'boy tamil' and 'girl tamil' are existing realities.

Just watch people speaking.

If everybody speaks alike or even looks alike, the world will indeed be a very boring place to live in.

with warm regards,
V.R.

 

[C RAVI]

dear Mr.Vnkesavan,

The different dialects is not something belonging to India. Even in U.K there are different dialects.(Remember the professor in My fair lady?)

I am sure USA will be having its own varieties. After all variety is the spice of life.

Whether or not we give the names you have suggested 'Mazhalaith thamizh' is different. So also the 'toothless tamil', 'boy's tamil', 'Iyangar tamil', 'boy tamil' and 'girl tamil' are existing realities.

Just watch people speaking.

If everybody speaks alike or even looks alike, the world will indeed be a very boring place to live in.

with warm regards,
V.R.

Well said Sri Visalakshi ji.....

 

[sangom]

I have observed the thread. I want to raise a few fundamental questions. Whether in India is there any other language which has such variation in use by different castes as we have in Tamil. Or whether do we have Brahmin Telugu, Brahmin Malayalam, Brahmin Kannada etc. I have from this forum understood that ******* had their origin in Maharashtra. (Narmadayai Nama Prathaha, Narmadayai Namo Nishihi) Whether migration was the reason to create a different dialect? Having lived in different parts of North for last about 40 years, I have observed that despite being used in a vast tract of land, Hindi varies in geographical region use only but not on such caste lines. Whether good or bad, like the distinct Tamil smartha and vaishnava Madisar saree, brahmin Tamil has also an existence and has come to be recognised as a separate dialect. There is a need to protect it rather than indulge in arguments. Brahmin Tamil will now have an Universal version (like softwares) as we ******* are now spread across the world from Toronto to Sydney and also in all parts of India. Our common identity threads like language and culture need to be protected always whether we live in TN or outside.

Shri Ramamurthy,

In the case of Malayalam there are as many different "styles" as the number of districts (roughly) and then there are variations based on caste. There sure is "Namboori Malayalam" just as there is dialect for Travancore, Kochi, Malabar, Palghat etc. But the point is that here nobody thinks of putting down any one of these - except occasional confusions and the humour arising on account of that. A simple example: the verb 'kura' in Kozhikode/Kannur villages means 'cough' whereas in the southern side it means the barking of a dog!

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear friends,

There is no 'universal brahmin Tamil' in existence!

It varies from state to state and district to district too.

For example: "while coming" is said in so many different ways!

varachche (வரச்சே), varObdhu (வரோப்து, Kerala), varumbO (வரும்போ)
and of course varumbOthu (வரும்போது)

I wish to share a joke with all of you, here.

One of my son's cousins from Kerala came to stay with us during his vacation.

He was asking my son 'enthukku ambalaththilae iththara praavasyam padakkam vedikkaraa?

(எந்துக்கு அம்பலத்திலேய் இத்தர ப்ராவஸ்யம் படக்கம் வெடிக்கறா?)

And my son was instantly 'clean bowled'!!

Then I had to rush for the translation (?!)

The question was 'Why do they burst crackers so many times in the temple?'

So, let us enjoy all types of Brahmin Tamil and try to preserve them! :blah:

Regards,
Raji Ram

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

I too have something to share with you all.

My husband's niece born and brought up in Trivandrum married a boy from Tanjore.

On the wedding night the groom was coughing (may be the after effects of the smoke from Homam) and the bride asked him point blank,

"எந்துக்கு இப்படிக் குரைக்கறேள்?"

You could have knocked him down with a feather!

To this day their varied brahmin Tamil continues to entertain us!

 

[kunjuppu]

i agree with visa and raji.

my malabar relatives, when they speak among themselves, at times, i am lost too. and that too me, growing up in a houeshold when malayalam was the first language, and every summer 2 months spent there. even though

we consider ourselves tamilians, my maternal grandma always felt that malayalam was our first language.

it is hoped the குரை did not dim the ardour of the wedding night

our மஞ்சு is their பனி, our பனி is their ஜுரம் .. what more to say

 

[Brahmanyan]

I too have something to share with you all.

My husband's niece born and brought up in Trivandrum married a boy from Tanjore.

On the wedding night the groom was coughing (may be the after effects of the smoke from Homam) and the bride asked him point blank,

"எந்துக்கு இப்படிக் குரைக்கறேள்?"

You could have knocked him down with a feather!

To this day their varied brahmin Tamil continues to entertain us!

Smt. Visalakshi Ramani,

While I was in service I had a colleague from a famous Hebbar Iyengar family. From him I learnt a few words of Hebbar Tamil, which is a mixture of Tamil, Kannada and Sanskrit. I shall give few words here under with equivalent words that we use, in bracket.

நா சாவ்ட்றேன் (நான் சாப்டறேன் ), நீனு சாவ்ட்டச்சா (நீ சாப்பிட்டாச்சா )
நான் வந்திண்டேன் (நான் வந்திருந்தேன் ), வர்நிமிஷு வந்துட்டே (ஒருநிமிஷம் வந்துட்டேன் ), நீனு தண்ணி கொண்டு கொண்டு வா (நீ சீக்ரம் தண்ணி கொண்டுவா ), அத்வே அவாளுக்கு வாசி (அதுதான் அவர்களுக்கு சௌகர்யம் ).

They converse in Kannada among themselves. But use Hebbar Tamil with elders of the family.

Regards,
Bramanyan,
Bangalore.

 

[Visalakshi Ramani]

Dear Mr.Kunjuppu,
you can give us the list of ambiguous Malayalam /Tamil words-
since you are connected equally to both the languages.
It will add some more fun to the forum! :lol:
with warm regards,
V.R.

 

[Raji Ram]

I have a very close friend who once said 'ஒரே ஜொரம் ராஜி! ரஷ ஷா ஷாட்டேன்!'

After a few seconds, I could make out that she ate 'rasam chaadham' because she had fever.

Some 'Madras mamis' wish to add 'sha' often, to make their Tamil stylish! :thumb:

 

[ganeshrev]

This is slightly different.

When I went to Chennai for working, after being used to Trichy and Tanjore and some what CBE (Did my college there) tamil, I found it a bit strange.

When I was standing in the bus stand, some body told 'ஒத்திக்கோ". I was wondering where is the Deepa Aarathi, as my mom used to say ஒத்திக்கோ only for that.

I dont remember my reaction then, though I remember being confused.Then when I talked to my Chennai relatives, understood that it means "Give Way" and they quoted kamal's song in Apporva Sakotharargal அண்ணாத்தே வருகிறார் ஒத்திக்கோ ஒத்திக்கோ"

 

[Raji Ram]

Kerala Tamil .... some more humour!

Thinking for a while, Kerala Tamil seems to entertain us the most!

One of my extended relative girl from Trichy got married to a Kerala Iyer boy. She wanted to get good name from her M.I.L and went out of the way to help her. But, each time she finished a task, her M.I.L used to comment 'paavam! nOkkuththaa budhdhimattu! {பாவம்! நோக்குத்தா(ன்) புத்திமட்டு}. The girl kept quiet but as soon as she met her mother the next time, burst into loud cry saying that in spite of all her help, she was considered as an idiot! Then she came to know that budhdhimattu means difficulty or trouble.

My eldest sister worked in Trivandrum as a senior scientist and once said that walking on the road to catch her office bus was very difficult during rainy days. She told the reason as 'rOdu pooraavum chaLi' {ரோடு பூராவும் சளி}. I wondered how can humans make so much 'chaLi' and then knew that 'chaLi' meant mud!

Tamil boys from Kerala say 'kaariyam' for work but the Chennai based boys get upset by that word, since it means the 13 day 'kaariyam' after someone departs the world!!
:laugh: