S
subbudu1
Guest
Dear All,
People who critiscize orthodoxy are taken to be mischievous or rogues by some here.
What is the point in all this self-dubba or rather praise of one's own self. Some people in the tabra community became famous, may be did some good work. But there were so many others, and there would have been so many more others in so many more communities had they the opportunity. Not all these rich and famous Tabras were 100% perfect. Many of them were double speakers, male chauvinists, liars, crabs( get ahead of the race by pushing some one down). Some of them were good and they mingled with all castes. So what. The faults of some, be used to label every one in the community, is that reasonable? If that is not reasonable then the community should not feel proud about the good among them too and keep harping on that.
Let me introduce a bit about myself. As many would have guessed from my id subbudu1 comes from my name subramanian. I live far away from chennai, my native place, but live within India.
Does the orthodox deserve sympathy in my view? No not all. Sri tks talks about moderately traditional being satvic. I do not know what it means as satvic but I would assume that different people would apply it to different types of people. It is vague as it is being used today. So let me share my experience in living with these moderately orthodox, moderately traditional brahmins who advocate religion and spiritual practices. I have seen plenty of this lot. They wear western dress while going to office, at home take refuge in the name of religion and orthodoxy. But behind all these masks are unsympathetic men and women who live in their own worlds. Good people are there in all sections of the society. But I must talk about the average person. This average lot pretend to be moderate. They keep up conversation with their NB friends, but would think ten times, should I invite them to the kitchen or not. The other thing that TBs fancy is this subtle sarcasm which borders on insults. This is normally reserved for people a bit different even for those within their own community.
I dont how this is in anyway satvic.
For the not so very orthodox ways of my family, we have been routinely abused by words and indirect sarcasm, all in the name of acharam and madi, nothing else. In relative circles we have been kept as separate category, to be invited on occasions, but close friendship would be only within their own kind. This is the moderate orthodox or traditional brand. If one of them gets to a high position in public life then the person becomes a rank distributor. Major pronouncements are made in the family ranking individuals. If you see these ranking, it is inevitably the orthodox who get high marks and the not so orthodox and not so well off low marks. I know one such person who revels in this ranking of people. But the person perhaps never realized that in his personal life, he has many failures, yet because of his cv and worldly achievements he is looked upon with awe, and every comment he makes is preserved in some portion of one's mind. Not to wash dirty linen in public I keep quiet .I fail to see connection between ritualism and qualities. When I have seen these gentlemen who rate others in this forum and take on the self-appointed job of auditors and evaluators, I am immediately able to place them somwhere in my family circle.
In my experience in this forum I could roughly assign the place of different forum members to some one in my family circle. Quite a few are genuinely moderate and good. I bow to them. But I dont accept their defense of their kins who I consider nothing less than rowdies.
Today where are these moderately orthodox or traditional bunch. They are just lost. Some in unknown continents , not able to assign a clear vision for their own life, and yet reluctantly being swept by the changes. The same group who considered themselves as the epitome of madi and acharam have to contend with inter-religion marriages in their own family. I dont see that as any negative. But had you been more open to all these ideas and open to criticism launched by the not so orthodox, you would have handled things better and been more happy.
Talking about satvic and the connection with belief system. I will speak of a man in my circles. He is not a well to do man. Every day he misses work , he misses salary for that day. When no-one in the family had time for a dying relation, he was there , taking leave and looking after this dying man, inspite of loss of pay.
This gentleman I would call him to be good and a gentleman. He does not fit in the othodox or religious definition of satvic. But he was the only person in the family who was there for the dying man. This gentleman was not only not orthodox, but he was a critique of our babas . including the much revered sai baba and other swamijis. Yet if god were looking, I am sure the place where he has reserved for him is heaven. Yet so much for this nonsensical talk about moderate traditionalists being satvic and so on.
Whether traditionalist or not so traditionalists, in my life I have seen nothing but rank hypocrisy proud men and women who are least aware of their surrounding and that their life and actions are worth being critically examined. In that sense my stay away from this orthodox bastion has kept my life peaceful. Today I am a wanted man by my relations, when they have seen more of the world and seen things in their own families , but I share too much hurt and abuses that I would rather maintain a distance, than be continually abused. The forum seems a mirror image of my own extended family.
People who critiscize orthodoxy are taken to be mischievous or rogues by some here.
What is the point in all this self-dubba or rather praise of one's own self. Some people in the tabra community became famous, may be did some good work. But there were so many others, and there would have been so many more others in so many more communities had they the opportunity. Not all these rich and famous Tabras were 100% perfect. Many of them were double speakers, male chauvinists, liars, crabs( get ahead of the race by pushing some one down). Some of them were good and they mingled with all castes. So what. The faults of some, be used to label every one in the community, is that reasonable? If that is not reasonable then the community should not feel proud about the good among them too and keep harping on that.
Let me introduce a bit about myself. As many would have guessed from my id subbudu1 comes from my name subramanian. I live far away from chennai, my native place, but live within India.
Does the orthodox deserve sympathy in my view? No not all. Sri tks talks about moderately traditional being satvic. I do not know what it means as satvic but I would assume that different people would apply it to different types of people. It is vague as it is being used today. So let me share my experience in living with these moderately orthodox, moderately traditional brahmins who advocate religion and spiritual practices. I have seen plenty of this lot. They wear western dress while going to office, at home take refuge in the name of religion and orthodoxy. But behind all these masks are unsympathetic men and women who live in their own worlds. Good people are there in all sections of the society. But I must talk about the average person. This average lot pretend to be moderate. They keep up conversation with their NB friends, but would think ten times, should I invite them to the kitchen or not. The other thing that TBs fancy is this subtle sarcasm which borders on insults. This is normally reserved for people a bit different even for those within their own community.
I dont how this is in anyway satvic.
For the not so very orthodox ways of my family, we have been routinely abused by words and indirect sarcasm, all in the name of acharam and madi, nothing else. In relative circles we have been kept as separate category, to be invited on occasions, but close friendship would be only within their own kind. This is the moderate orthodox or traditional brand. If one of them gets to a high position in public life then the person becomes a rank distributor. Major pronouncements are made in the family ranking individuals. If you see these ranking, it is inevitably the orthodox who get high marks and the not so orthodox and not so well off low marks. I know one such person who revels in this ranking of people. But the person perhaps never realized that in his personal life, he has many failures, yet because of his cv and worldly achievements he is looked upon with awe, and every comment he makes is preserved in some portion of one's mind. Not to wash dirty linen in public I keep quiet .I fail to see connection between ritualism and qualities. When I have seen these gentlemen who rate others in this forum and take on the self-appointed job of auditors and evaluators, I am immediately able to place them somwhere in my family circle.
In my experience in this forum I could roughly assign the place of different forum members to some one in my family circle. Quite a few are genuinely moderate and good. I bow to them. But I dont accept their defense of their kins who I consider nothing less than rowdies.
Today where are these moderately orthodox or traditional bunch. They are just lost. Some in unknown continents , not able to assign a clear vision for their own life, and yet reluctantly being swept by the changes. The same group who considered themselves as the epitome of madi and acharam have to contend with inter-religion marriages in their own family. I dont see that as any negative. But had you been more open to all these ideas and open to criticism launched by the not so orthodox, you would have handled things better and been more happy.
Talking about satvic and the connection with belief system. I will speak of a man in my circles. He is not a well to do man. Every day he misses work , he misses salary for that day. When no-one in the family had time for a dying relation, he was there , taking leave and looking after this dying man, inspite of loss of pay.
This gentleman I would call him to be good and a gentleman. He does not fit in the othodox or religious definition of satvic. But he was the only person in the family who was there for the dying man. This gentleman was not only not orthodox, but he was a critique of our babas . including the much revered sai baba and other swamijis. Yet if god were looking, I am sure the place where he has reserved for him is heaven. Yet so much for this nonsensical talk about moderate traditionalists being satvic and so on.
Whether traditionalist or not so traditionalists, in my life I have seen nothing but rank hypocrisy proud men and women who are least aware of their surrounding and that their life and actions are worth being critically examined. In that sense my stay away from this orthodox bastion has kept my life peaceful. Today I am a wanted man by my relations, when they have seen more of the world and seen things in their own families , but I share too much hurt and abuses that I would rather maintain a distance, than be continually abused. The forum seems a mirror image of my own extended family.
.
