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What is your opinion on Fate?
- Thread starter Curious
- Start date
- Status
renuka
Well-known member
Dear Curious,
Fate is just how most people call their shortcomings and their misfortunes.
If a person is succesful/rich/learned he will says it all his hard work.
If a person is unsucccesful/poor/downtrodden he will say its all fate.
Most dont realise even fate is our own doing.
Fate is just how most people call their shortcomings and their misfortunes.
If a person is succesful/rich/learned he will says it all his hard work.
If a person is unsucccesful/poor/downtrodden he will say its all fate.
Most dont realise even fate is our own doing.
your attitude is your fate
anyways, there are discussions wrt free will versus divine will in old threads - perhaps you might like to read thru them.
regards.
RVR
0
விதியென்று ஏதும் இல்லை வேதங்கள் வாழ்க்கை இல்லை
உடலுண்டு உள்ளம் உண்டு முன்னேறு மேலே மேலே -
-தடுமாறும் போதையிலும் கவிபாடும் மேதை `கண்ணதாசன்'
There is nothing called fate. All these Literatures are not for daily life.
We have both body and mind. With that let us try to improve ourselves.
Great Tamil Poet `Kannadasan'
Kannadasan delivers his songs mostly in drunken condition but he delivers in very crisp sentences and simple language which could be understood by all.
All the best
உடலுண்டு உள்ளம் உண்டு முன்னேறு மேலே மேலே -
-தடுமாறும் போதையிலும் கவிபாடும் மேதை `கண்ணதாசன்'
There is nothing called fate. All these Literatures are not for daily life.
We have both body and mind. With that let us try to improve ourselves.
Great Tamil Poet `Kannadasan'
Kannadasan delivers his songs mostly in drunken condition but he delivers in very crisp sentences and simple language which could be understood by all.
All the best
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Sri. Curious,
Fate controls one's life. Kannadasan போதையில் எழுதின கவிதை not wothstanding, Sow.renukakarthikayan's assertions not withstanding, there is fate. I have my own life to look at. There are more lives to look at as examples. There is fate, there is luck etc. it is lucky to be at the right place at the right time.
Cheers!
N.R.Ranganathan
Active member
Fate
Dear Sir :
HH Jagadguru Chandrasekara Bharathi of Sringeri has clarified the
conflict between fate-vs-free will. He says that there is no conflict
at all since what is fate today is the result of your past actions
born out of free will. His full article appeared in 'Bhavan's journal'
many years ago.
Sage Vasishta tells Lord Rama that one can achieve the ultimate
goal of human life thru' effort, overcoming the results of the past
actions by determination and discipline.
Viswamitra was acknowledged as 'Brahma Rishi' by sage Vasishta,
and it is a well- known fact that Viswamitra, a kshatriya king, achieved
this position by sheer self-effort.
Bhagawan Ramana told the surgeons who wanted to perform an
operation for cancer that they can go ahead if they so desired . But,
He did not permit any anaesthesia to be administered and told them
that he has no connection with the body. The cancer is due to karma
( fate ), but he overcame the suffering through will power.
Of course this is a very big subject, and I have condensed it.
Dear Sir :
HH Jagadguru Chandrasekara Bharathi of Sringeri has clarified the
conflict between fate-vs-free will. He says that there is no conflict
at all since what is fate today is the result of your past actions
born out of free will. His full article appeared in 'Bhavan's journal'
many years ago.
Sage Vasishta tells Lord Rama that one can achieve the ultimate
goal of human life thru' effort, overcoming the results of the past
actions by determination and discipline.
Viswamitra was acknowledged as 'Brahma Rishi' by sage Vasishta,
and it is a well- known fact that Viswamitra, a kshatriya king, achieved
this position by sheer self-effort.
Bhagawan Ramana told the surgeons who wanted to perform an
operation for cancer that they can go ahead if they so desired . But,
He did not permit any anaesthesia to be administered and told them
that he has no connection with the body. The cancer is due to karma
( fate ), but he overcame the suffering through will power.
Of course this is a very big subject, and I have condensed it.
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When the result doesn't match the aspirations, blame it on fate.
When the plans go wayward and out of control, blame it on fate.
When you lose, while many others win, blame it on fate.
When you don't get what you don't deserve, blame it on fate.
When you don't realise the universal truth that one cannot win every time, blame it on fate.
When the plans go wayward and out of control, blame it on fate.
When you lose, while many others win, blame it on fate.
When you don't get what you don't deserve, blame it on fate.
When you don't realise the universal truth that one cannot win every time, blame it on fate.
RVR
0
Shri Pannvalan,
Kannadasan himself wrote a song ஒரு கோப்பையிலே என்குடியிருப்பு (I am living in a glass) and also acted himself.
He is a genius. It is immaterial whether he writes songs after boosting himself or not. He had a knack of telling difficult things in very simple sentences in his songs which I use to admire very much.
Some of his lines like
நதியில் விளையாடி கொடியில் தலைசீவி வளர்ந்த இளம்தேன்றலே
are still in my mind which I can never forget.
All the best
Kannadasan himself wrote a song ஒரு கோப்பையிலே என்குடியிருப்பு (I am living in a glass) and also acted himself.
He is a genius. It is immaterial whether he writes songs after boosting himself or not. He had a knack of telling difficult things in very simple sentences in his songs which I use to admire very much.
Some of his lines like
நதியில் விளையாடி கொடியில் தலைசீவி வளர்ந்த இளம்தேன்றலே
are still in my mind which I can never forget.
All the best
Respected members.
This discussion about 'fate' is interesting. When I said there is fate, it was not for using that as an excuse to explain failures. I have seen too many incidents in life.
125 of us appeared for school final exam; one kid could not appear for the exam. he got chicken pox 4 days before exam. (only) He received 'fail' grade.
I cracked the bones in my left fore hand 2 days before my trade exam. 'fail grade'; 12 month wait before the reappearence.
I have met people who had lost everything including family members in natural disasters; their life changed completely; many never regained the old flame in life again.
Refugees from war torn countries which was no fault of their own, who lost everything, including relatives.
What about the large population in canada, USA and few other countries who lost jobs due to economic down turn? I was one of them (Lost my job in Toronto). I recovered very quickly. I read about 1000s who are not so lucky.
For the last 10 years many paid their mortgages meticulously. Suddenly the houses 'lost' thier values. Basically their 10+ years sweating means nothing.
How about Mr.X who strictly follows all the traffic rules; drives along merrily on a major road within the speed limit; along comes joe bloke from the side road who does not stop at 'stop sign', ploughs into Mr.X leaving Mr.X in a wheel chair for the rest of his life. (There are many Mr.Xs around).
I can write more.
There is something that is beyond our control. Shall I call it 'fate', please? Thank you.
It is easy to be judgemental about others. although one may argue that the examples I cited are isolated, unfortunately all the examples had been witnessed by me.
Cheers!
This discussion about 'fate' is interesting. When I said there is fate, it was not for using that as an excuse to explain failures. I have seen too many incidents in life.
125 of us appeared for school final exam; one kid could not appear for the exam. he got chicken pox 4 days before exam. (only) He received 'fail' grade.
I cracked the bones in my left fore hand 2 days before my trade exam. 'fail grade'; 12 month wait before the reappearence.
I have met people who had lost everything including family members in natural disasters; their life changed completely; many never regained the old flame in life again.
Refugees from war torn countries which was no fault of their own, who lost everything, including relatives.
What about the large population in canada, USA and few other countries who lost jobs due to economic down turn? I was one of them (Lost my job in Toronto). I recovered very quickly. I read about 1000s who are not so lucky.
For the last 10 years many paid their mortgages meticulously. Suddenly the houses 'lost' thier values. Basically their 10+ years sweating means nothing.
How about Mr.X who strictly follows all the traffic rules; drives along merrily on a major road within the speed limit; along comes joe bloke from the side road who does not stop at 'stop sign', ploughs into Mr.X leaving Mr.X in a wheel chair for the rest of his life. (There are many Mr.Xs around).
I can write more.
There is something that is beyond our control. Shall I call it 'fate', please? Thank you.
It is easy to be judgemental about others. although one may argue that the examples I cited are isolated, unfortunately all the examples had been witnessed by me.
Cheers!
venkat, my fkannadasan avourite, which i can forever is முத்துக்களோ கண்கள் ... oh well!
raghy, what you say is absolutely true. there are so many things that happen around us, for which there is no explanation.
for starters, why do bad things happen to good people?
just one story: my immediate boss, a gem of a guy, less than a month ago was complaining of constant cough which would not leave him.
within 2 weeks he lost 15 lbs, and after countless tests, finally the doctors zeroed in on the real cause - bladder cancer with less than two months to live without chemo. with chemo max 2 years.
but he is so weak now from radiation, that no chance of giving chemo. so it goes.
similarly, good fortune strikes us at odd times, when least expected.
when i see many such things happening, i am overwhelmed by an immense sense of smallness. somewhere up there, someone is waving the wand and producing music, which is incomprehensible to me, but amazingly awesome to hear and feel.
which brings me to another train of thought which krishnamurthi posted yesterday. if all things are bound to happen regardless, do we really have any control over our life?
yes, as students we study and hope to have a successful career. but i have seen friends of mine, smarter than i am, having an unfulfilled life, home and careerwise. and there are others, whom we gave up as 'bound to fail' and who now are happy millionaires.
when i see some folks thumping away their breast at their supposed achievements and how much money they make or how great their children are doing, i can but shake my head, with much perplexity, as i personally feel that i have not deserved anything, and everything i have is a gift. much to the chagrin of my immediate family, who complain that 'here i go on my philosophical trip' again.
i have found, no matter what, one can never win. at the max, one can try not to lose. that is all.
thank yee.
raghy, what you say is absolutely true. there are so many things that happen around us, for which there is no explanation.
for starters, why do bad things happen to good people?
just one story: my immediate boss, a gem of a guy, less than a month ago was complaining of constant cough which would not leave him.
within 2 weeks he lost 15 lbs, and after countless tests, finally the doctors zeroed in on the real cause - bladder cancer with less than two months to live without chemo. with chemo max 2 years.
but he is so weak now from radiation, that no chance of giving chemo. so it goes.
similarly, good fortune strikes us at odd times, when least expected.
when i see many such things happening, i am overwhelmed by an immense sense of smallness. somewhere up there, someone is waving the wand and producing music, which is incomprehensible to me, but amazingly awesome to hear and feel.
which brings me to another train of thought which krishnamurthi posted yesterday. if all things are bound to happen regardless, do we really have any control over our life?
yes, as students we study and hope to have a successful career. but i have seen friends of mine, smarter than i am, having an unfulfilled life, home and careerwise. and there are others, whom we gave up as 'bound to fail' and who now are happy millionaires.
when i see some folks thumping away their breast at their supposed achievements and how much money they make or how great their children are doing, i can but shake my head, with much perplexity, as i personally feel that i have not deserved anything, and everything i have is a gift. much to the chagrin of my immediate family, who complain that 'here i go on my philosophical trip' again.
i have found, no matter what, one can never win. at the max, one can try not to lose. that is all.
thank yee.
N
Nara
Guest
Free will is a complex question not quite well understood by our pea brains, I think.
In the most fundamental level, we all are nothing more than gene survival vehicles. The only thing that has survived over hundreds of thousands of years are gene collections. Our individual actions and feelings have no lasting impact.
On a more broader level, humans have done quite well. As of now, we are the most successful species standing with ability to affect every other species, but not the commensurate wisdom.
In this context, the random events an individual encounters, whether positive or negative, are extremely transient, of not much interest to anyone but the person, and amounts to not very much. Such is the fate of fate.
Cheers!
Last edited by a moderator:
Dear RVR,
Kannadasan's life was like an open book. He himself has written in so many contexts and said in so many forums that he consumed liquor very frequently. He was also addicted to pethidine injections, which he left upon the request and advice of Merryland Subramaniam, the producer of Swamy Iyyappan, in 1979.
What I wanted to convey was he was in an inebriated condition, he never wrote poems or songs.
I am a great lover of Kannadasan, despite his shortcomings. He has penned more than 5000 film songs and published 7 volumes of poems. Besides, he has written over 100 books in Tamil.
But for his personal weaknesses, he would have written a lot more, reaching a still greater height.
Both Subramania Bharathi and Kannadasan would have received Nobel prize for literature, had they written in English or their writings were translated into English, during their lifetime.
In Gitanjali, Rabindranath Tagore wrote "Strike, strike at the root of penury at my heart". But he was from a rich family and never suffered like Bharathi. But, Bharathi withstood real penury in his life, yet was considerate to and sympathetic towards other human beings and other species too.
Kannadasan said "There is no one on this earth who earned wealth like me; again, there was no one who squandered his wealth like me". Kannadasan openly admitted in the presence of youngsters that his life would be a lesson to all, as how not to lead one's life. This frankness in him makes him so great.
In the song you referred to, he writes:
"Kaaviya thayin ilaya magan; kadhal pengalin perum thalaivan;
manida jathiyil thani manithan; naan padaippathanal en per iraivan".
Vanadhi Padhippagam published his film songs in 3 volumes of 500 songs each. If you buy them, you will find more treasures in them.
Many scholars have done their Ph. D. on Kannadasan's writings. But, Kannadasan had studied only up to 8th Standard!
I always say:
"Niraya padithadhinal avarakku perumai;
niraya per ivaraiye padippadhinal,
ivarakku perumai;
Irandume perumai thane?"
3 of important books of Kannadasan are: 1. Vanavasam; 2. Arthamulla Indhu Matham
and 3. Bhagavad Geethai. (Since film songs were recorded long before they came in a book form, I have deliberately excluded them, though they were his biggest contributions and gave a distinctive identity to him among all the Tamil poets of his times).
I shall continue my views on the present topic 'fate' in my next post.
Kannadasan's life was like an open book. He himself has written in so many contexts and said in so many forums that he consumed liquor very frequently. He was also addicted to pethidine injections, which he left upon the request and advice of Merryland Subramaniam, the producer of Swamy Iyyappan, in 1979.
What I wanted to convey was he was in an inebriated condition, he never wrote poems or songs.
I am a great lover of Kannadasan, despite his shortcomings. He has penned more than 5000 film songs and published 7 volumes of poems. Besides, he has written over 100 books in Tamil.
But for his personal weaknesses, he would have written a lot more, reaching a still greater height.
Both Subramania Bharathi and Kannadasan would have received Nobel prize for literature, had they written in English or their writings were translated into English, during their lifetime.
In Gitanjali, Rabindranath Tagore wrote "Strike, strike at the root of penury at my heart". But he was from a rich family and never suffered like Bharathi. But, Bharathi withstood real penury in his life, yet was considerate to and sympathetic towards other human beings and other species too.
Kannadasan said "There is no one on this earth who earned wealth like me; again, there was no one who squandered his wealth like me". Kannadasan openly admitted in the presence of youngsters that his life would be a lesson to all, as how not to lead one's life. This frankness in him makes him so great.
In the song you referred to, he writes:
"Kaaviya thayin ilaya magan; kadhal pengalin perum thalaivan;
manida jathiyil thani manithan; naan padaippathanal en per iraivan".
Vanadhi Padhippagam published his film songs in 3 volumes of 500 songs each. If you buy them, you will find more treasures in them.
Many scholars have done their Ph. D. on Kannadasan's writings. But, Kannadasan had studied only up to 8th Standard!
I always say:
"Niraya padithadhinal avarakku perumai;
niraya per ivaraiye padippadhinal,
ivarakku perumai;
Irandume perumai thane?"
3 of important books of Kannadasan are: 1. Vanavasam; 2. Arthamulla Indhu Matham
and 3. Bhagavad Geethai. (Since film songs were recorded long before they came in a book form, I have deliberately excluded them, though they were his biggest contributions and gave a distinctive identity to him among all the Tamil poets of his times).
I shall continue my views on the present topic 'fate' in my next post.
There are so many personal tragedies in many people's lives. But, instead of putting the blame on the fate, just analyse them. If the genesis of mistakes or wrongdoings could be found, try to avoid them in future. That is where our past guides us as a good teacher.
As for natural disasters, they are beyond the prediction and control of human beings.
I always sympathise with the victims of such disasters. But, I still say why do you always quote the darker side of life? There are hundreds of people who have successfully surmounted such tragedies and emerged successful at the end.
To illustrate further, in a competitive examination for say IITJEE or IAS, so many thousands of people appear for them, but only a few hundreds are able to make it.
We must draw inspiration from those successful persons and shall not look at the unsuccessful ones, saying it was their fate that failed them.
Similarly, in politics, music, literature, academics, profession or industry, there are lots and lots of people who have conquered the so called fate and emerged the winner. Why don't you quote them?
I think I have clarified my stand.
As for natural disasters, they are beyond the prediction and control of human beings.
I always sympathise with the victims of such disasters. But, I still say why do you always quote the darker side of life? There are hundreds of people who have successfully surmounted such tragedies and emerged successful at the end.
To illustrate further, in a competitive examination for say IITJEE or IAS, so many thousands of people appear for them, but only a few hundreds are able to make it.
We must draw inspiration from those successful persons and shall not look at the unsuccessful ones, saying it was their fate that failed them.
Similarly, in politics, music, literature, academics, profession or industry, there are lots and lots of people who have conquered the so called fate and emerged the winner. Why don't you quote them?
I think I have clarified my stand.
G
Guruji
Guest
in my opinion
Fate is Destiny.....
Thanks
Fate is Destiny.....
Thanks
Are you saying that we/our suffering are/is insignificant compared to the larger scheme of things...whatever that is.
If there is no reincarnation, karma carry over from past lives or fate then why do some people seem to suffer much more than others? Btw I asked this on another thread (Supremacy of Jnana, Karma)
N
Nara
Guest
Yes dear Amala, that is what I am saying. When we are undergoing the torment, for each of us, it would indeed seem the only thing that matters. But it matters little to the gene societies which produced us as their survival vehicles.
Why should there be a reason for it? It is just what it is. Think back a mere 100 years. Do you think whatever it is that my or your great great grandparents suffered amounts to anything now?
Also, what is suffering anyway? It is just some brain chemistry that produces some physical effects. Recall VSR's patient who recognizes his mother but thinks she is an impostor because of lack of any feeling associated with mother because the connections between visual recognition and feelings were severed. Does this not tell us these feelings are produced by physical things? By changing the brain chemistry we can change what one feels.
So unequal suffering has no explanation. Seeking an explanation is fool's errand.
Cheers!
renuka
Well-known member
Dear all,
I just have a doubt here to clear.
I have seen many self proclaimed atheists who do Pithru Karyam for their deceased ancestors even though they do not believe in rebirth/karma.
They also get their children married the traditional Hindu way even though they do not believe in scriptures.
All of them still walk around with their Vedic origin names.
Even when they die they will go through cremation rights.
Some of them even have strong faith in astrology calling it a science.
I have known one atheist when he was in danger that his clinic had caught fire, screamed "God please help me" .
This post is not directed to anyone in specific and neither am i being prejudiced to any atheist.
I just have a doubt here to clear.
I have seen many self proclaimed atheists who do Pithru Karyam for their deceased ancestors even though they do not believe in rebirth/karma.
They also get their children married the traditional Hindu way even though they do not believe in scriptures.
All of them still walk around with their Vedic origin names.
Even when they die they will go through cremation rights.
Some of them even have strong faith in astrology calling it a science.
I have known one atheist when he was in danger that his clinic had caught fire, screamed "God please help me" .
This post is not directed to anyone in specific and neither am i being prejudiced to any atheist.
Respected Nara,
If everything will go as is determined by somebody else then where is the inspiration to look up and try to achieve. Our own forefathers miseries were inspiration for someone to find soloution and advance in science/technology or whatever it is. As far as I am concerned I think we should have the inspiration either from society/friends/relatives or self to do something or to face the cituation. Thenm thereshould be th ementality to take the result as it is and not let up the mind. We know the story of a KIng who failed seven times and succedded in the eighth one. He hadnot lost hope and tried hard everytime . (But this is not applicable to our cricket team which fails in final most of the time:eyebrows
If everything will go as is determined by somebody else then where is the inspiration to look up and try to achieve. Our own forefathers miseries were inspiration for someone to find soloution and advance in science/technology or whatever it is. As far as I am concerned I think we should have the inspiration either from society/friends/relatives or self to do something or to face the cituation. Thenm thereshould be th ementality to take the result as it is and not let up the mind. We know the story of a KIng who failed seven times and succedded in the eighth one. He hadnot lost hope and tried hard everytime . (But this is not applicable to our cricket team which fails in final most of the time:eyebrows
RVR
0
This is 100% true in Tamilnadu. Our CM visits Tirukkuvalai - Angala Parameswari amman - his kuladeivam, every time after the swearing in ceremony as Chief Minister. He along with son Stalin visited the temple in October 2009 when a priest from Ettukudi Murugan temple (two KM from Tirukkuvalai) personally confirmed to me after the event that he performed some yagnas at Angala Parameswari temple during CM's visit at the instruction of the family members of the CM.
Even Azhagiri after swearing in as central Minister visited Tiruvarur and Tirukkuvalai as practiced by his atheist father.
Whatever they proclaim outside is just for public consumption only
All the best
Kalaignar performed some yaagams in Arcot Veerasami's house after his govt was dismissed for the 2nd time.
He started wearing yellow vasthram on his vest, only upon the advice of a pandit.
He constructed a house according to 'vaasthu' in Velachery and asked his son Stalin to move into it.
Dayalu Ammal performed elaborate prayers at Tirumala, just before Assembly elections.
I will write more.
He started wearing yellow vasthram on his vest, only upon the advice of a pandit.
He constructed a house according to 'vaasthu' in Velachery and asked his son Stalin to move into it.
Dayalu Ammal performed elaborate prayers at Tirumala, just before Assembly elections.
I will write more.
N
Nara
Guest
Why not direct it to me dear Renu
?Obviously, I can't speak for everyone who decline to go along with the god proposition. I am sure it is not a homogeneous group.
Pithru Karma could very well be just a means of respecting the memory of dear parents. Children getting married in the traditional Hindu way may come from compulsions of family members. Names are given by parents and one may very well not want to shed it. Being a nastika does not necessarily mean revulsion for Vedic origin names, does it? Same goes for cremation, it is not uncommon even in the west.
It is indeed strange that some of them believe in astrology. This is hard to explain. They have to come clean.
Screaming "God please help me" is probably just a deep seated cultural response. Going to temples, participating in pooja, etc. are cultural activities that one can engage in without subscribing to any of the supernatural beliefs.
Cheers!
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