Why do we seek approval from Society for breaking it's rules?

[pviyer]

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Temples do/did have a lot of money. Some people took advantage and made off with a lot of temple properties. Many of them were Brahmins. But not In Tamil Nadu.

But NOT THE PRIESTS. The Priests were and are only employees who were/are never paid well.

Tamples were and are Public trusts. The management was entrusted to Trustees. Maths/Adheenams and group of people. The Maths/Adheenams were Brahmin and non-Brahmin. The people who were in charge of the Maths and other trustees were responsible for the deprivation of the temple's wealth.

Priests were employed by the Trustees. The trustees were rich and powerful.

If Jewels disappear in Thirupathi temple it is because of the people who managed the temple. Rich powerful people.

Please do not blame the priests.

Sir, I agree with every letter of what you say. Many people including brahmins have been culprits but the priests have not been prosperous. A few exceptions should not be made into generalizations. I appreciate your ability to look at an issue across the dimensions keeping a balance between traditional and reformist outlook!

 

[sangom]

Temples do/did have a lot of money. Some people took advantage and made off with a lot of temple properties. Many of them were Brahmins. But not In Tamil Nadu.

But NOT THE PRIESTS. The Priests were and are only employees who were/are never paid well.

Tamples were and are Public trusts. The management was entrusted to Trustees. Maths/Adheenams and group of people. The Maths/Adheenams were Brahmin and non-Brahmin. The people who were in charge of the Maths and other trustees were responsible for the deprivation of the temple's wealth.

Priests were employed by the Trustees. The trustees were rich and powerful.

If Jewels disappear in Thirupathi temple it is because of the people who managed the temple. Rich powerful people.

Please do not blame the priests.

I was talking of temples from the historical point of view, when Mahmud Ghazni came and looted. What you say may be right after the management of temple assets was purely out of the priests' hands. But do we have any evidence to say that this was the system right from ancient times?

Regarding the Pazhani episode, I think the priests are also definitely involved. I was told by a relative of mine who had some connection with TN, HR&CE, that in one famous murukan temple (Tiruttani, if I remember right) when a loft (made of granite slab just above and behind the moolavar) was cleaned as part of strengthening the garbhagriham, lots of liquor bottles were found thrown into the loft. Obviously, it has to be the priests. I have read also that the priests of the Chidambaram temple were punished by a certain king in the historical past and that there is mention about it in one of the Tamil texts. (I don't recollect now.)

Hence, it may be technically right of you to say "Please do not blame the priests" for much of the misuse. But I do not think they are a better lot unless it is viewed that the Kazhakam people are all asura-like and the temple priests as devas.

 

[pviyer]

I was talking of temples from the historical point of view, when Mahmud Ghazni came and looted. What you say may be right after the management of temple assets was purely out of the priests' hands. But do we have any evidence to say that this was the system right from ancient times?

Regarding the Pazhani episode, I think the priests are also definitely involved. I was told by a relative of mine who had some connection with TN, HR&CE, that in one famous murukan temple (Tiruttani, if I remember right) when a loft (made of granite slab just above and behind the moolavar) was cleaned as part of strengthening the garbhagriham, lots of liquor bottles were found thrown into the loft. Obviously, it has to be the priests.

If true this is sad but sangom is right, atleast in the sense that that not all priests "were as holy as they claim to be". I recollect the recent controversy in the kanchipuram temple regarding a priest connected with porn. There was also a lot of outrage in UK, sometime back, when a priest (tamil by origin), was found to have molested a few women in the temple in a Locality in London.

But my personal interaction with priests has been that there is plenty of good alongside all this rubbish! There is no way one can quantify in percentages. But there is an irony to all this,
that the priests who are corrupt (example drinking) , many of them are strong believers themselves. I have seen some from the gurukkal community, employed in secular jobs, eating meat and drinking. I am not sure how rampant all this is among people who actually serve the temples.

There is a lot of contradiction in people's thoughts here. I felt there was more dedication among the previous generation of gurukals and sivacharyas, may be things were never perfect even then, but probably better.
I have not heard of such controversies in vaishnava temples, but is that my imagination?

 

[Nara]

...I have not heard of such controversies in vaishnava temples, but is that my imagination?

Funny thing Shri pviyer, I have not heard of such controversies in Shaivite temples, only in SV temple -- this is surely due to my complete ignorance of Shaivite temples and somewhat close knowledge about SV ones .

I have visited most of the prominent SV temples in Tamilnadu. I must say most of the archakas are after money and quite insincere. A large proportion of them are from small villages living in relative poverty, so I don't mind them making some money from their god, I used to think god would be pleased with that.

However, in more prominent temples, invariably, in almost all cases, be it Thirumalai, Sri Rangam, Kanchi, Thiruvahendrapuram, et al, the archakas are quite affluent, even more insincere and after money, quite brazen about it. I did not have a single large temple where the archaka did not try to hit me for one expense or another, always in tens of thousands, if not lakhs. (Obviously, not in Thirumalai )

BTW, I don't know about Shaivite temples, in SV temples the archaka position is hereditary, nobody can get appointed by the trustees. They have a strict muRai system. So, if any jewelery goes missing, there is no way tis can be achieved without te knowledge of the archakas.

IMO, based on what I have read, observed, and heard, the archakas are very much to be blamed, even if they make money, at the very least they can be seen to be sincere, which they invariably are not. On the other hand, why must we expect them only to be sincere when all others merrily go about with scant sincerity to the identity they cling to?

Cheers!

 

[pviyer]

IMO, based on what I have read, observed, and heard, the archakas are very much to be blamed, even if they make money, at the very least they can be seen to be sincere, which they invariably are not. On the other hand, why must we expect them only to be sincere when all others merrily go about with scant sincerity to the identity they cling to?

Cheers!

My father gets infuriated with such corruption. He once had a heated argument with a vadhiyar and said "Ongla madhri naraya ber irukarthu naala thaan ipoellam manisha karyam panrathaye niruthara". His reply was "Nirithikoyen, yaar ongla panna solara?"
I dont agree to his view. Let us encourage the vadhiyars or the temple priests by giving them donation and encouragement. It is their duty to reform themselves. But society does not follow such a logic and there is discouragement which they suffer,when they become more corrupt. I used to grow up listening to stories of chidambaram dikshithars giving up food in order to light the lamps of the temples. There was thus such dedication existing as well. After this recent government intervention in chidambaram, while some dikshithars looked at themselves with self-pity, there were a few senior priests, who were more introspective and said that "lot of things were not being followed by us sincerely anymore, all this is probably a consequence of it". My hats off to this micro community of thillai muayiravar who have sacrificed a lot for this temple. A local of chidambaram says that the rice eaten by the members of this community, is something which would not be touched by anybody. Many of their condition is indeed not good. I had an interaction with one scholarly dikshithar over email. If members are interested we can establish contact for a joint fund to be given to them to meet their legal challenge or see whatever else that can be done for them

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

This discussion about Priests reoccurs frequently in many threads. I keep on posting my experience with good and sincere priests asking people not to judge the entire community of priests from the experience with some priests.

It boils down to how you view things. Is the glass half empty or half full?

Is the glass half empty or half full? is a common expression, used rhetorically to indicate that a particular situation could be a cause for optimism (half full) or pessimism (half empty); or as a general litmus test to simply determine if an individual is an optimist or a pessimist. The purpose of the question is to demonstrate that the situation may be seen in different ways depending on one's point of view and that there may be opportunity in the situation as well as trouble.

This idiom is used to explain how people perceive events and objects. Perception is unique to every individual and is simply one's interpretation of reality. The phrase "Is the glass half empty or half full" can be referred to as a philosophical question.

 

[prasanth1]

Do the Hindus have any such outfit? Did they like to shed even a little blood for any religious cause?

Hindus, nor any spiritual person, should ever shed blood for any religious cause, because religion is personal faith, and one has no right to shed blood based on personal faith. Sorry if I misinterpret.

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Dear Shri.Prasant1,
Your comments would have been apt if all the citizens in this universe follow only one religious faith Even then I am not very confident whether this will ensure PEACE to ALL.Unfortunately,we have too many religions
with conflicting interests and everyone wants to defend only his religious faith irrespective of the consequences.You may be reading in newspapers
how some spiritual persons(I am not certain whether they come under this category)including a Sankaracharya of Jammu are languising in JAIL
for their alleged role in unlawful misadventure.

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

I understand that HH.Shri.JAYENDRA SARASWATHI of Kanchi Peetam has inaugurated a political party with its own flag.It seems that he will have no role in the Party.One ADVOCATE from Chennai is the President.One of the demands of the new party is to delink HINDU temples from the
control of the Government.
I am not sure whether this a correct step or it will cause more harm to tabra community in Tamilnadu.

 

[pviyer]

I understand that HH.Shri.JAYENDRA SARASWATHI of Kanchi Peetam has inaugurated a political party with its own flag.It seems that he will have no role in the Party.One ADVOCATE from Chennai is the President.One of the demands of the new party is to delink HINDU temples from the
control of the Government.
I am not sure whether this a correct step or it will cause more harm to tabra community in Tamilnadu.

I am not sure if this is true, but let us give swamigal HH of kanchi peetham a break. He has been tirelessly working to revive our religion, in ways he thinks is right. Everybody has the right to act within the bounds of law. There has been a lot of criticism on his actions and statements. People may be entitled to their own opinions but I see a fighter here in the form of swamigal!