Why do we worship God when we know Karma ‘s effect can not be changed ?

[Dr R A Raaj]

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Sir,

Assume Pongal is for thanking the sun, is it not ignorant to thank the Sun.? Sun is not going to receive our thanks, nor Sun is working for individuals or human race or even planet Earth. Sun illuminates so many planets, yet only in Earth living beings exist.

Rather pongal is about learning from the Sun. How letting go (of energy in this case) leads to creation of knowledge and wealth. How overcoming potential barriers help us create newer things. How cycles (rta) of nature create a dharma (laws) for us to live etc. But I understand in common parlance it is reduced to thanking the Sun.



On BG17.4 Krishna says sattviks worship devas (who inspire knowledge), rajasiks worship yaksha/raksas (who inspire passion) and tamasiks worship preta-bhuta-ganas (who inspire material richness). Here yajante means worship.

On BG17.11, 12,13 he talks about Yajna. IN 17.11 Yajna done without any expectation of result (dont ask for anything) is sattvik, in 17.12 those done for dambha/pride/passion is rajasik, in 17.13 those done without rules, without distributing food, without the mantras, without dedication is tamasic.

An explicit explanation. Kudos!

Some personal thoughts to share on your learned assumption:

"Sun illuminates so many planets, yet only in Earth living beings exist."

This may sound unbelievable, even mad, I know. My beloved Shiva's been called "Pithan" (madman), & I relate. My personal psychic, spiritual & meditative experiences leave me feeling neither earthly nor ethereal, but liminal, like an alien observing life through a two-way mirror. Please bear with me as I attempt to explain myself.

Dynamic discoveries challenge Earth's unique habitability. Earth-like planets, evidence of Martian water, & mounting UFO evidence suggest advanced extraterrestrial life, hinting at potential government cover-ups & questioning humanity's cosmic solitude. This phenomenon has fascinated me since childhood.

George Knapp, a prominent investigative journalist & ufologist, has reported on UFOs & paranormal occurrences for over three decades, beginning in the late 1980s. A news anchor & talk radio host, he's known for groundbreaking reports on Area 51 & UFOs, bringing these topics into the mainstream & earning numerous awards.

Knapp's recent Netflix series, "UFO: Investigating the Unknown," compellingly presents UFOs, aligning with my decades of metaphysical experiences. I'll hopefully be able to share my insights soon, including references to deities & vimanas (flying machines) & other awe-inspiring information. Knapp's investigation reveals new evidence & testimony, exploring government cover-ups, advanced technology, & extraterrestrial contact.

The History Channel's "Unidentified: Inside America's UFO Investigation" features ufologists Luis Elizondo & Christopher Mellon in a documentary-style investigation with expert testimony.

Both series argue convincingly for UAPs, but "UFO: Investigating the Unknown" probes their origins, prompting viewers to consider their implications for our understanding of the universe.

George Knapp has been a vocal advocate for US congressional hearings on UFOs for decades. He's witnessed firsthand the government's reluctance to hold such hearings, citing various reasons including pressure from ufologists, the potential for ridicule, & the fear of revealing classified information. He's not optimistic about official disclosure happening anytime soon, he hopes to continue advocating for greater understanding & a more serious approach to the topic.

While Knapp has been involved in efforts to push for such hearings, he highlights the challenges:

- 1960s Hearings: Congress held two formal hearings in the late 1960s, but they were ultimately overshadowed by the Air Force's cancellation of Project Blue Book, leading to a period of government silence on the topic.

- 1990s Attempt: A proposed set of hearings focused on national security aspects of UFOs was nearly a reality, but it was ultimately scrapped due to concerns about the involvement of "UFO diehards."

- Citizen Hearing: Knapp supports the Citizen Hearing, a non-official event featuring former members of Congress listening to testimony from UFO witnesses, as a step towards greater transparency. He criticizes the media's coverage of the event, which he feels is often dismissive & lacking in actual research.

- Government’s Secrecy: Knapp believes the government has a history of studying UFOs but has actively sought to downplay the subject. He encourages journalists to examine declassified documents & to take the topic seriously.

- Whistleblower Support: Knapp has been a supporter of whistleblowers, including David Grusch, who have come forward with information about secret government programs concerning UFOs.

Graham Hancock's Netflix series, "Ancient Apocalypse" explores a theory of a highly advanced, possibly an extraterrestrial civilization, during the last ice age, presenting circumstantial evidence & suggesting potential future cataclysms.

The incredible book, "Chariots of the Gods" by Erich von Däniken gifted to me by my father when I was 12, was made into a documentary in 1970. This was followed by the documentary series, "In Search of Ancient Astronauts” in 1972 & the ongoing "Ancient Aliens" History Channel series since 2009, which continues to explore similar themes presenting evidence & theories about ancient alien contact.

Project Blue Book was the US Air Force's systematic study of UFO sightings from 1952 to 1969. It was a continuation of earlier projects, Project Sign & Project Grudge, & aimed to determine if UFOs posed a threat to national security & to scientifically analyze related data. It investigated a total of 12,618 UFO sightings. Of those, 701 remained unexplained.

Just adding context to those with a similar interest on the subject. As for the connection between an ancient or modern extraterrestrial civilization, time & dimension portals, & our Hindu sages & deities, I shall provide more information over the next few days.

Thank you for reading!

 

[Dr R A Raaj]

I would like to ask a question.
Is asking for something or thanking for something Tamasik? Giving thanks is seen in festivals like Ponggal where one thanks the Sun and nature.
Yagnas too done in the mode of Sattva are to please the Devas though devoid of attachment.


The Gita states mode of Tamas as below:

yajante sattvika devan yaksha-rakshansi rajasah

pretan bhuta-ganansh chanye yajante tamasa janah​

Translation​

BG 17.4: Those in the mode of goodness worship the celestial gods; those in the mode of passion worship the yakṣhas and rākṣhasas; those in the mode of ignorance worship ghosts and spirits.



​

vidhi-hinam asrishtannam mantra-hinam adakshinam

shraddha-virahitam yajnam tamasam parichakshate​

​

Translation​

BG 17.13: Sacrifice devoid of faith and contrary to the injunctions of the scriptures, in which no food is offered, no mantras chanted, and no donation made, is to be considered in the mode of ignorance.​

Just adding to the intelligent discussion of this post

Dr Renuka wrote this:

“Is asking for something or thanking for something Tamasik?”

What does "Tamasik" mean?

The Bhagavad Gita (Chapter 18, verses 23–25) defines a Tamasik action as one undertaken out of delusion, ignoring consequences and the potential harm to oneself or others.

This question reminded me of Thirukkural, Couplet 282 (Chapter 29):

“This sin if in the mind man but thought conceive;
"By fraud I will my neighbor of his wealth bereave.”

Translation by a scholar:
Even the thought of sin is sinful; one shouldn't even contemplate stealing another's property.

This couplet, while focusing on fraudulent thoughts, highlights the power of thought itself.

Since all is energy, each thought carries frequency and power, positive or negative. The “act of thinking” focuses that energy toward a desired outcome, whether it's a curse or a manifestation of preferred desires.

This action (thought alone) creates Karmic “cause & effect.”

Neutrality, as advocated by Chapter 18 of the the Gita, is ideal. "Ask not, want not." Let things unfold naturally.

So, Dr Renuka, "asking for something" & "thanking for something" are "thoughts" in themselves & do carry energies via frequencies & do naturally lead to an effect. One may be less positive than the other in your question.

I have an entire writeup from my extensive research which is a segment in one of my books exploring the "power of frequencies" from a scientific angle using the "quantum entanglement" perspective.

I'd be happy to share with you the members here or on another thread, if requested, as I don't want to come across as an upstart imposing my minuscule viewpoints.

Just my two cents worth to ponder over.

Thank you for reading!

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

I didn't understand much of this. But if you are like 'attributing' these qualities to the thoughts I shared, maybe. As long as we know (as far as we could) that our thoughts and actions are without kama, krodha, bhaya, asuya etc and we keep learning and evolving/changing, it's fine.

Probably I am here now. Maybe I will be somewhere else or I may come to the place you are in, in a future. Just enjoy the journey.

You will never understand as long as you are imprisoned in your religion, in your philosophy, in your ego, in your superiority complex, which have blinded you and bound you. Break free from all conditioning, from all programming, from your intellect-cocoon. Only The Truth will set you free. Until then you will keep arguing and debating, abusing me in varnished language, desperately trying to prove you are great. The hunger of ego and arrogance can never be satiated.

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

Assume Pongal is for thanking the sun, is it not ignorant to thank the Sun.? Sun is not going to receive our thanks, nor Sun is working for individuals or human race or even planet Earth. Sun illuminates so many planets, yet only in Earth living beings exist.

Rather pongal is about learning from the Sun. How letting go (of energy in this case) leads to creation of knowledge and wealth. How overcoming potential barriers help us create newer things. How cycles (rta) of nature create a dharma (laws) for us to live etc. But I understand in common parlance it is reduced to thanking the Sun.



On BG17.4 Krishna says sattviks worship devas (who inspire knowledge), rajasiks worship yaksha/raksas (who inspire passion) and tamasiks worship preta-bhuta-ganas (who inspire material richness). Here yajante means worship.

On BG17.11, 12,13 he talks about Yajna. IN 17.11 Yajna done without any expectation of result (dont ask for anything) is sattvik, in 17.12 those done for dambha/pride/passion is rajasik, in 17.13 those done without rules, without distributing food, without the mantras, without dedication is tamasic.

Thank the Creator, not the creation.

 

[GNANA SUNYAM]

@thebigthinking: Ok sir. You win. Congratulations. Keep it up.

 

[thebigthinkg]

You will never understand as long as you are imprisoned in your religion, in your philosophy, in your ego, in your superiority complex, which have blinded you and bound you. Break free from all conditioning, from all programming, from your intellect-cocoon. Only The Truth will set you free. Until then you will keep arguing and debating, abusing me in varnished language, desperately trying to prove you are great. The hunger of ego and arrogance can never be satiated.

While I don't have an opinion on me being imprisoned (as it's tough to know where we are really and you may be right), if you felt I abused you in any language, then my apologies.

Prcchan, Panditam, Medhavi says chandogya upanishad as the way of life. Each one of us have various ways of doing. I just shared my journey, my experience.

 

[thebigthinkg]

Sir,



An explicit explanation. Kudos!

Some personal thoughts to share on your learned assumption:

"Sun illuminates so many planets, yet only in Earth living beings exist."

This may sound unbelievable, even mad, I know. My beloved Shiva's been called "Pithan" (madman), & I relate. My personal psychic, spiritual & meditative experiences leave me feeling neither earthly nor ethereal, but liminal, like an alien observing life through a two-way mirror. Please bear with me as I attempt to explain myself.

Dynamic discoveries challenge Earth's unique habitability. Earth-like planets, evidence of Martian water, & mounting UFO evidence suggest advanced extraterrestrial life, hinting at potential government cover-ups & questioning humanity's cosmic solitude. This phenomenon has fascinated me since childhood.

George Knapp, a prominent investigative journalist & ufologist, has reported on UFOs & paranormal occurrences for over three decades, beginning in the late 1980s. A news anchor & talk radio host, he's known for groundbreaking reports on Area 51 & UFOs, bringing these topics into the mainstream & earning numerous awards.

Knapp's recent Netflix series, "UFO: Investigating the Unknown," compellingly presents UFOs, aligning with my decades of metaphysical experiences. I'll hopefully be able to share my insights soon, including references to deities & vimanas (flying machines) & other awe-inspiring information. Knapp's investigation reveals new evidence & testimony, exploring government cover-ups, advanced technology, & extraterrestrial contact.

The History Channel's "Unidentified: Inside America's UFO Investigation" features ufologists Luis Elizondo & Christopher Mellon in a documentary-style investigation with expert testimony.

Both series argue convincingly for UAPs, but "UFO: Investigating the Unknown" probes their origins, prompting viewers to consider their implications for our understanding of the universe.

George Knapp has been a vocal advocate for US congressional hearings on UFOs for decades. He's witnessed firsthand the government's reluctance to hold such hearings, citing various reasons including pressure from ufologists, the potential for ridicule, & the fear of revealing classified information. He's not optimistic about official disclosure happening anytime soon, he hopes to continue advocating for greater understanding & a more serious approach to the topic.

While Knapp has been involved in efforts to push for such hearings, he highlights the challenges:

- 1960s Hearings: Congress held two formal hearings in the late 1960s, but they were ultimately overshadowed by the Air Force's cancellation of Project Blue Book, leading to a period of government silence on the topic.

- 1990s Attempt: A proposed set of hearings focused on national security aspects of UFOs was nearly a reality, but it was ultimately scrapped due to concerns about the involvement of "UFO diehards."

- Citizen Hearing: Knapp supports the Citizen Hearing, a non-official event featuring former members of Congress listening to testimony from UFO witnesses, as a step towards greater transparency. He criticizes the media's coverage of the event, which he feels is often dismissive & lacking in actual research.

- Government’s Secrecy: Knapp believes the government has a history of studying UFOs but has actively sought to downplay the subject. He encourages journalists to examine declassified documents & to take the topic seriously.

- Whistleblower Support: Knapp has been a supporter of whistleblowers, including David Grusch, who have come forward with information about secret government programs concerning UFOs.

Graham Hancock's Netflix series, "Ancient Apocalypse" explores a theory of a highly advanced, possibly an extraterrestrial civilization, during the last ice age, presenting circumstantial evidence & suggesting potential future cataclysms.

The incredible book, "Chariots of the Gods" by Erich von Däniken gifted to me by my father when I was 12, was made into a documentary in 1970. This was followed by the documentary series, "In Search of Ancient Astronauts” in 1972 & the ongoing "Ancient Aliens" History Channel series since 2009, which continues to explore similar themes presenting evidence & theories about ancient alien contact.

Project Blue Book was the US Air Force's systematic study of UFO sightings from 1952 to 1969. It was a continuation of earlier projects, Project Sign & Project Grudge, & aimed to determine if UFOs posed a threat to national security & to scientifically analyze related data. It investigated a total of 12,618 UFO sightings. Of those, 701 remained unexplained.

Just adding context to those with a similar interest on the subject. As for the connection between an ancient or modern extraterrestrial civilization, time & dimension portals, & our Hindu sages & deities, I shall provide more information over the next few days.

Thank you for reading!

Thank you. The context in which I wrote 'Earth is the only planet with life' was the planet also plays a role in creating life and not just the sun. Hence it's not about thanking the sun, but learning from the Sun.

Mars is called bhauma, the son of bhumi. It is called angarakan, which means a charcoal and a burnt up planet. My understanding is the burning up refers to the Martian atmosphere being blown away (burning up is the process of consuming the air/oxygen around) and angarakan refers to that. Before Mars was burnt up, it might have had an atmosphere and hence water and life on it. After all it is the son of bhumi.

My thinking is vedic literature were 'heard' (sruti) refers to them being taught to human beings by another civilization, which could be a Earth civilization from another epoch or may be an ET civilization. To assume that only one planet in all the millions of galaxies and planetary systems will have life is ridiculous. By being nestled deep inside the solar system and deep inside the spiral arm of milky way galaxy, by the relatively young age of human civilization, we are yet to be exposed to other civilizations.

 

[Dr R A Raaj]

Thank you. The context in which I wrote 'Earth is the only planet with life' was the planet also plays a role in creating life and not just the sun. Hence it's not about thanking the sun, but learning from the Sun.

Mars is called bhauma, the son of bhumi. It is called angarakan, which means a charcoal and a burnt up planet. My understanding is the burning up refers to the Martian atmosphere being blown away (burning up is the process of consuming the air/oxygen around) and angarakan refers to that. Before Mars was burnt up, it might have had an atmosphere and hence water and life on it. After all it is the son of bhumi.

My thinking is vedic literature were 'heard' (sruti) refers to them being taught to human beings by another civilization, which could be a Earth civilization from another epoch or may be an ET civilization. To assume that only one planet in all the millions of galaxies and planetary systems will have life is ridiculous. By being nestled deep inside the solar system and deep inside the spiral arm of milky way galaxy, by the relatively young age of human civilization, we are yet to be exposed to other civilizations.

Love your reply & the extent of your knowledge!

Well written & well said.

I bow to your simple & straightforward statements that have powerful resonance.

God bless,, Sir.

 

[renuka]

Thank you. The context in which I wrote 'Earth is the only planet with life' was the planet also plays a role in creating life and not just the sun. Hence it's not about thanking the sun, but learning from the Sun.

Mars is called bhauma, the son of bhumi. It is called angarakan, which means a charcoal and a burnt up planet. My understanding is the burning up refers to the Martian atmosphere being blown away (burning up is the process of consuming the air/oxygen around) and angarakan refers to that. Before Mars was burnt up, it might have had an atmosphere and hence water and life on it. After all it is the son of bhumi.

My thinking is vedic literature were 'heard' (sruti) refers to them being taught to human beings by another civilization, which could be a Earth civilization from another epoch or may be an ET civilization. To assume that only one planet in all the millions of galaxies and planetary systems will have life is ridiculous. By being nestled deep inside the solar system and deep inside the spiral arm of milky way galaxy, by the relatively young age of human civilization, we are yet to be exposed to other civilizations.

Dear Sir,
Though I respect your views about learning from the Sun and not about thanking the Sun, I would like to share word or two by quoting Sathya Sai Baba about gratitude and the Sun.
Sri Sathya Sai Baba said that people should be grateful to the sun for providing light that cannot be matched by any electric bulb. He also said that people should express gratitude to God for providing everything, including food, air, and water. Here are some other things that Sri Sathya Sai Baba said about gratitude:

• The importance of gratitude
  People should be grateful to God for everything that has been given to them, not just when they receive small help from someone else.
  
  
• Gratitude is prayer
  Expressing gratitude is a form of prayer that awakens a person's inner divinity.
  
  
• No greater sin than ingratitude
  Ingratitude is a great sin.
  
  
• God is the Sun
  Sri Sathya Sai Baba said that "God is the Sun and when His rays fall upon your heart, not impeded by the clouds of egoism, the lotus blooms and the petals unfold".

 

[sravna]

Learning higher truths especially important. Learning to show gratitude is one of them. The highest truths generally are imperceptibly learnt. Only then the nuances get in.

 

[sravna]

Imperceptible learning has a parallel in imperceptible teaching. Karma system is the ultimate master in that.

 

[thebigthinkg]

Dear Sir,
Though I respect your views about learning from the Sun and not about thanking the Sun, I would like to share word or two by quoting Sathya Sai Baba about gratitude and the Sun.
Sri Sathya Sai Baba said that people should be grateful to the sun for providing light that cannot be matched by any electric bulb. He also said that people should express gratitude to God for providing everything, including food, air, and water. Here are some other things that Sri Sathya Sai Baba said about gratitude:

• The importance of gratitude
  People should be grateful to God for everything that has been given to them, not just when they receive small help from someone else.
  
  
• Gratitude is prayer
  Expressing gratitude is a form of prayer that awakens a person's inner divinity.
  
  
• No greater sin than ingratitude
  Ingratitude is a great sin.
  
  
• God is the Sun
  Sri Sathya Sai Baba said that "God is the Sun and when His rays fall upon your heart, not impeded by the clouds of egoism, the lotus blooms and the petals unfold".

I understand being grateful to God, in the sense, that instead of complaining, accept what we have and work from there. In other words, work without getting distressed about the fruits of work.
Yes prayer should be about awakening one's self to the witness (divinity) inside. That is bhakti or devotion.

The problem in expressing gratitude for good things is, in the same token, blame for bad things..? If God saved you only amidst a lot of other sufferers and you thank god for it, then is he cruel to make others suffer..? But if you say it's due to karma, then why thank God..? B

ut exactly as you wrote above, thanking god is for awakening the one's self to the divinity(witness) inside. Why is Krishna depicted as taking away robes of women bathing in river and climbing the tree..? In Govindashtakam Sankara explains it like this.

Krishna climbs the tree with robes of gopis bathing in river, which makes them to approach Krishna for their robes. Sankara says the conclusion of learned is that this is how Lord Govinda removes soka and moka, by putting his devotees in trouble, so that they come near him.

स्नानव्याकुलयोशिद्वस्त्रमुपादायागमुपारूढंव्यदित्सन्तिरथ दिग्वस्त्रा ह्युपुदातुमुपाकर्षन्तम् ।निर्धूतद्वयशोकविमोहं बुद्धं बुद्धेरन्तस्थंसत्तामात्रशरीरं प्रणमत गोविन्दं परमानन्दम्
Snana kula yoshid vasthra mupadhayaga muparoodam,Vyadhitsantheeradha digvasthradhy upadathu mupakarshantham,Nirdhootha dhwaya soka vimoham budham budheranthastham,Saththa mathra sareeram, pranamatha govindam paramanandham

நீராடி மூழ்கும் மாதர் வஸ்திரம் தூக்கிபோக மேலேறிடும்வெளிவந்திட்ட உடுப்பற்றோர்க்கு தந்துதானே அருகாக்கும்விலக்கும் இரண்டு சோகம் மோகமும் ஆன்றோர் அறிவின் முடிவாகும்தோற்றம் யாவிலும் சத்யம் பணிந்திட கோவிந்தம் பரமானந்தம்

In mahAperiyavA's words, if we consider good happening to us as his grace that we can reason out, then bad happening to us is also his grace that we cannot reason out. If everything is his grace, then the only reason for any prayer has to be awaken the divinity inside, to go near Him.

Govindashtakam translation sung in tamil essence in english with mahaperiyava discourse

 

[sravna]

"In mahAperiyavA's words, if we consider good happening to us as his grace that we can reason out, then bad happening to us is also his grace that we cannot reason out. If everything is his grace, then the only reason for any prayer has to be awaken the divinity inside, to go near Him."

Dear TBT,

There is something called Maya. People cannot be perfectly logical and they act within the constraints of maya. Each evolves based on his experiences. While your logic is impeccable it is not logic that always works. some may think that there is no logic in doing prayers while others may get fulfillment praying.

 

[renuka]

I understand being grateful to God, in the sense, that instead of complaining, accept what we have and work from there. In other words, work without getting distressed about the fruits of work.
Yes prayer should be about awakening one's self to the witness (divinity) inside. That is bhakti or devotion.

The problem in expressing gratitude for good things is, in the same token, blame for bad things..? If God saved you only amidst a lot of other sufferers and you thank god for it, then is he cruel to make others suffer..? But if you say it's due to karma, then why thank God..? B

ut exactly as you wrote above, thanking god is for awakening the one's self to the divinity(witness) inside. Why is Krishna depicted as taking away robes of women bathing in river and climbing the tree..? In Govindashtakam Sankara explains it like this.

Krishna climbs the tree with robes of gopis bathing in river, which makes them to approach Krishna for their robes. Sankara says the conclusion of learned is that this is how Lord Govinda removes soka and moka, by putting his devotees in trouble, so that they come near him.

स्नानव्याकुलयोशिद्वस्त्रमुपादायागमुपारूढंव्यदित्सन्तिरथ दिग्वस्त्रा ह्युपुदातुमुपाकर्षन्तम् ।निर्धूतद्वयशोकविमोहं बुद्धं बुद्धेरन्तस्थंसत्तामात्रशरीरं प्रणमत गोविन्दं परमानन्दम्
Snana kula yoshid vasthra mupadhayaga muparoodam,Vyadhitsantheeradha digvasthradhy upadathu mupakarshantham,Nirdhootha dhwaya soka vimoham budham budheranthastham,Saththa mathra sareeram, pranamatha govindam paramanandham

நீராடி மூழ்கும் மாதர் வஸ்திரம் தூக்கிபோக மேலேறிடும்வெளிவந்திட்ட உடுப்பற்றோர்க்கு தந்துதானே அருகாக்கும்விலக்கும் இரண்டு சோகம் மோகமும் ஆன்றோர் அறிவின் முடிவாகும்தோற்றம் யாவிலும் சத்யம் பணிந்திட கோவிந்தம் பரமானந்தம்

In mahAperiyavA's words, if we consider good happening to us as his grace that we can reason out, then bad happening to us is also his grace that we cannot reason out. If everything is his grace, then the only reason for any prayer has to be awaken the divinity inside, to go near Him.

Govindashtakam translation sung in tamil essence in english with mahaperiyava discourse

Yes..I agree.
I do understand that Karma is our own uploading of our deeds( both good and bad) and when the time is ripe its downloaded to us in various combinations..like changing seasons, good and bad visit us and its about handling it alike though facing a bad phase might not be easy.

From my personal experience, Karma is the lessons we face on the school called Earth.
We should learn from both the good and the bad we face as the lessons and exam papers were set by our own selves by our previous lives karma.

But when we look within and introspect, we align with divinity and eventually we gain a deeper understanding of ourselves.

Then one realizes that the praise and blame tendency in us is our ego speaking and we tend to want everything to be in our favor.
If we abandon our ahamkara tendencies and align with divinity, He will show you a way.

 

[sravna]

Renuka,

You do not have to align with divinity really. Even if you dont align with Him he will show you the way though you may think you are steering

 

[sravna]

What is said is like tip of the iceberg in impact. What is unsaid and perceived causes the real impact. Complexity obfuscates and subtlety escapes. The karmic system uses both liberally to test your discriminatory power and make you learn.

 

[Dr R A Raaj]

Assume Pongal is for thanking the sun, is it not ignorant to thank the Sun.? Sun is not going to receive our thanks, nor Sun is working for individuals or human race or even planet Earth. Sun illuminates so many planets, yet only in Earth living beings exist.

Rather pongal is about learning from the Sun. How letting go (of energy in this case) leads to creation of knowledge and wealth. How overcoming potential barriers help us create newer things. How cycles (rta) of nature create a dharma (laws) for us to live etc. But I understand in common parlance it is reduced to thanking the Sun.



On BG17.4 Krishna says sattviks worship devas (who inspire knowledge), rajasiks worship yaksha/raksas (who inspire passion) and tamasiks worship preta-bhuta-ganas (who inspire material richness). Here yajante means worship.

On BG17.11, 12,13 he talks about Yajna. IN 17.11 Yajna done without any expectation of result (dont ask for anything) is sattvik, in 17.12 those done for dambha/pride/passion is rajasik, in 17.13 those done without rules, without distributing food, without the mantras, without dedication is tamasic.

I've to concur with Dr Renuka in this particular instance with all due respect to Mr thebigthinkg's post on the issue of the Sun.

“Assume Pongal is for thanking the sun, is it not ignorant to thank the Sun.? Sun is not going to receive our thanks, nor Sun is working for individuals or human race or even planet Earth. Sun illuminates so many planets, yet only in Earth living beings exist.”

This statement got me thinking again because the Sun/Surya most definitely receives the “thanks” as I shall explain below.

It is imperative to recognize Karma as the foundational principle that governs human conduct, representing a pivotal element in our transient presence within the vast cosmic framework. Guided by the teachings embedded in Karma, our journey culminates in a reunion as Jothis with Shiva, our celestial source.

Positioned as the de facto leader among the Navagrahas, the cosmic entities orchestrating Karmic destinies to mete out rewards and retributions, Surya emerges as a central figure shaping the intricate tapestry of our existence. There would be no Navagrahas without Surya as the initiator & without offering our "thanks" to him. Extended, if there's no Surya, there wouldn't be Shani, his son.

The Gayatri Mantra stands out as an unparalleled spiritual invocation, transcending temporal boundaries & carrying profound significance as a blend of prayer & mantra. Acknowledged as a gateway to heightened meditative states, the Gayatri holds a revered status as the most sacred & esteemed among Vedic mantras, having inspired generations of saints, sages, intellectuals, & followers in the Hindu faith.

Across the expanse of Vedic scriptures, the Gayatri Mantra finds mention, attributed to Brahma, the divine architect of the universe, endowing it with a timeless essence reflective of its celestial origin. Amidst the diverse array of sects & spiritual traditions within Hinduism, the Gayatri Mantra persists as a universally embraced prayer of sanctity. Countless households observe the tradition of reciting this mantra, particularly during the Upanayana sacrament (sacred thread) undertaken by Brahmin/Iyer male youths, a practice deeply ingrained within the community.

This sacred mantra, venerating Savita, the celestial embodiment of Surya, establishes a profound connection with the divine source of creation. Swami Vivekananda's interpretation underscores its role as a meditation on the supreme energy that illuminates our consciousness. Central to the Gayatri Mantra lies Savitr, intricately linked to the Surya, embodying its sacred essence, with Savitr & Savitri in Vedic & ancient texts.

The concept of being a true Brahmin & the significance of acknowledging the supreme power of Surya in spiritual & religious pursuits are deeply intertwined with the recitation & comprehension of the Gayatri Mantra. This mantra's role in the initiation & practice of Vedic skills underscores its importance in the Brahminical tradition, emphasizing the essential connection between spirituality & the divine essence symbolized by Surya.

The recitation of the Gayatri Mantra can be likened to a symbolic form of Surya Namaskar, reflecting a reverence for the Surya's vitality & spiritual significance. While knowledge of the Gayatri is a common trait among priests & Brahmins, it does not automatically guarantee spiritual depth or devotion to most of them. The deeper spiritual essence of the Gayatri, according to some Vedic scholars, directs reverence not to Mother Gayatri but to the Parabrahman, an entity exuding a brilliance & intensity akin to a thousand suns combined.

If that is so, do you agree that one cannot be a true Brahmin, & allowed to wear the “scared thread” if they do not learn & acknowledge the effect & the supreme power of Surya in their spiritual & religious endeavors? I’m not a Brahmin so clarifications would be nice.

So, why even bother creating the Gayatri Mantra in the first place & insisting all Brahmins acknowledge & recite it before they can practice their Vedic skills?

The narrative of Shiva permitting Kaushika, a Kshatriya turned Brahmin later known as Vishvamitra, to invoke the Gayatri Mantra - a practice traditionally reserved for the Brahmin elite - presents a compelling irony.

This is similar to the following exceptional devotees who turned into revered sages:

Nandanar, an ardent devotee of Lord Shiva, was born into a Scheduled Caste family. A remarkable incident unfolded when the Lord commanded the sacred Nandi (bull) stationed at the temple entrance to step aside, granting Nandanar the divine audience he sought with the Lord.

Kannappa Nayanar, originally a hunter by birth, exhibited an unparalleled devotion to Lord Shiva. In a testament to his unwavering faith, a profound demonstration of devotion transpired as the Lord orchestrated a scenario where Kannappa, in a gesture of utmost reverence, selflessly sacrificed his own eyes to staunch the flow of blood from the revered Shiva Lingam.

Sabari, hailing from a lineage of hunters, garnered recognition as a venerable soul under the discerning gaze of Sage Matanga, who instructed her to await the arrival of Lord Rama at the hermitage. Upon Lord Rama's visit, Sabari graciously presented fruits as an offering, a gesture that deeply touched the divine visitor. Subsequently, she transcended her mortal form, ascending to the celestial realms.

These accounts are emblematic of the profound devotion exhibited by devotees such as Vidura, renowned for his unwavering dedication to Lord Krishna, among the numerous narratives that underscore the fervent spiritual connections individuals forged with their divine deities.

Therefore, it is crucial to embody the virtues and principles characteristic of a "true" Brahmin, transcending mere birthright within a Brahmin lineage, as per my current understanding.

Anyone care to comment?

Thank you for reading!

 

[thebigthinkg]

brahmana varna and brahmin jAti are different. In my understanding, varNa which means paint or external covering is something that anyone can wear. It is external. jAti means one who are related by birth, as belonging to same family tree. When families became large, they were said to be of the same jAti (related by birth). Those jAtis (families) who adopted brahmana varNa were called brAhmans.

In those days the primary knowledge providing/seeking is veda raksanam and revolved around vedas. So brahmana jAtis became custodian of vedas.

Any knowledge seeker/provider is brahmana varNa. Those who do veda raksanam are supposed to be in brAhmana jAti. Today jAti (family) exists, but brAhmana does not necessarily exist in that jAti.

That apart, the best form of showing gratitude to someone is to learn from them (and follow them). Imitation is best form of flattery.

Here is my understanding of Gayatri Mantra s in Rg veda 3.062.09, 10, 11 chanted in saMskrt and tamil. It also could explain why it is held in the highest regard of all the mantras.

 

[Dr R A Raaj]

Sir,

Thank you for enlightening & clearing up this concept which has been bothering me for decades.

I feel enriched & educated.

I bow to your knowledge & understanding of the scriptures.

God bless.