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Why India can not produce its own fighter jets?

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Sangom Sir

I am really not competent to comment on how far Dr.Prabhakar Kamat is correct but have shared his views here as I consider him to have done a serious study on this subject ( by profession he is a Psychiatrist ) and has done lot of work on Consumer Activism in India and unlike some Dravidian Charlatans he does not hit out at Brahmins / Brahmanism out of hatred but out of serious study . Dr.Prabhakar Kamat has also welcomed people to counter his arguments and I would be happy if some members here give a serious counter to his arguments in case they do not agree with this observations .

The name of the thread did not reveal the nature of discussions taking place in this thread.

My guess having seen Dr Kamat's blog site is that he may be well intentioned. His observations about how rituals are understood by common people and how a group of people could have used prevailing practices to exploit another group is entirely possible.

But my view reading his interpretation of B.Gita verses and few others referenced, demonstrates his total lack of scholarship. He does not have genuine understanding arising from proper exposure with the support of qualified teachers and fellow students. Therefore reading his blogs is a waste of time for anyone serious with personal growth.

As an example, we find that our mind can be tranquil at times with no reason or with reason (such seeing the view from the the top of a mountain for some people) or feel agitated (during the middle of a passionate discussion) or feel a bit down & dull (say, just before getting ready to sleep or having listless thinking for no reason at all).

There is no further proof needed to know the above facts because we can simply know by observing ourselves.

The three states of mind are given fancy names like Satva, Rajas and Tamas.

Since this experience of our mind is not unique only to ourselves, it is viewed as all pervasive across the world.

Dr Kamat thinks this is all arising due to conspiracy of some people.

I can only think of an American profanity to label this kind of thinking to add some humor to this section:-)

He cannot comprehend the references of B.Gita Chapter 3 verses 10 to 12 he cites. Literal interpretation misses the big picture of the total context. Therefore profound statements may appear mundane, inane and silly.

My suggestion for anyone that is serious about personal growth is that :
  • one should approach any of such documents like Upanishad and B.Gita with a clear understanding of using it ONLY for one's own growth.
  • For that one must have clarity on what the basic problem one has for being born as a human being
  • and then have an idea if that scripture will addresses the problem with complete clarity.
  • One then has to use the prescribed and tested methods to make progress.


Most people are unaware there is any problem except they want more money and have better security.
In that case, they should stay away from most such scriptures and try to understand why it is important to develop character for leading a more conflict free life.
Such a recommendation actually is in B.Gita in chapter 3.

There are very good books that make a case as to why character strengths can benefit individuals and the society at large (e.g., Covey's books).

This idea of doing social good by and large is a myth in my view. It is all for most party ego driven activity for many people and therefore an illusion.
There are people who have done great service but for that they had addressed their own problems first.

The universe is 14 billion years old, there are billions of galaxies and there are billions of stars. In our earth we have a blip of an existence. The world (and nature) is completely in equilibrium. There is no need to anyone to feel that they are making a difference by some self gratifying analysis.

If one is sick to the bones they cannot help anyone else even if they think they have good intentions.

First one should get better.

Those in delusion cannot wake others from their delusion :-)



So my view is that when it comes to growth (of a society) I would focus on myself first.

I am only sharing this since this is a forum and I came to spend/waste some time here. I found that our scriptures (not the Purva Mimamsa section) can help and simply sharing that without any expectations.

Blogs like Dr Kamath in this context are distractions in my view,
 
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Israel: Israel's brightest hour in fighter combat history came in the six day war. Due to an arms embargo, Dassault could not sell the planes Israel needed to have complete air superiority. By 1968, Dassault had finished production of the 50 Mirage 5Js paid for by Israel, but an arms embargo imposed upon Israel by the French government in 1967 prevented deliveries from taking place. The Israelis replied by producing an unlicensed copy of the Mirage 5, the Nesher, with technical specifications for both the airframe and the engine obtained by Israeli spies. Israel continues its indigenous research programs to this day and sells many of its weapons to its allies.

What is the point here?
The above two nations, took the development of indigenous weapons programs very seriously. They started off roughly at the same time as India. They invested money, infrastructure and got scientists educated in order to produce these modern killing machines. So is India capable of doing this? Yes. But it requires a great degree of effort and will of the people and government to make it happen. It involves free and fair trials of competing private companies, it involves heavy investments, both public and private, it involves training scientists, engineers, maintenance crew, it involves refitting factories and workshops, it calls for intelligent research teams to tackle very difficult problems in fluid mechanics, material science, aerodynamics, weapon systems, engines, avionics and electronics. Above all it involves allowing a large group of people to work on something without any interference, and insistence on quality of the final product. In other words- NO red tape, NO corruption and TOTAL autonomy. Even after this high degree of commitment and effort is put in, it will still take years, perhaps decades before real results can be seen. But is it possible? Yes. We can see baby steps with Tejas and the aircraft career being built. But we are still a long way from developing such technology independently.

http://www.quora.com/Why-is-India-n...e-the-Eurofighter-Typhoon-and-Dassault-Rafale

State of Israel and its progress cannot be compared with that of India.

Israel is a tiny place, homogenous for most part (one language, culture, religion etc) and enjoys almost unconditional support from America.

There are probably more jews in NY city than in the state of Israel. Many Jews have dual citizenship and have total support for state of Israel.

The bible-belt nuts are waiting for the second coming of Christ at Israel and want to make sure the place is well prepared by protecting from the hands of Muslims. They think God will then punish the Jews. For these beliefs there is enormous monetary support and aid in terms of defense equipment. Secrets are shared even while spying on each others.

India's problems are far more complex by several orders of magnitude. The author's analysis as described in the reference is without merit
 
State of Israel and its progress cannot be compared with that of India.

Israel is a tiny place, homogenous for most part (one language, culture, religion etc) and enjoys almost unconditional support from America.


India's problems are far more complex by several orders of magnitude. The author's analysis as described in the reference is without merit

I think you dismissed Israel and its success as American support, that is unfair. It is their desire to live and succeed in a hostile environment that should be emulated. I am not for some of the Israel policy and practice except for their ingenuity.
The Israelis replied by producing an unlicensed copy of the Mirage 5, the Nesher, with technical specifications for both the airframe and the engine obtained by Israeli spies. Israel continues its indigenous research programs to this day and sells many of its weapons to its allies.
That only shows their grittiness in the face of adversity.

There was a company IS&WP started by Mr. Tara Singh. They used to produce fasteners. He went to Japan and Imported one machine to make nails, on the shop floor he erected 10 to meet the demand. I am not saying that we need to copy, but we can be inspired.

Till Tata Motors started we did not produce one automotive engine indigenous in India. Similarly even 10 years back we did not know to produce automatic gear box. Please do not tell me we did not have the talent.
 
Till Tata Motors started we did not produce one automotive engine indigenous in India. Similarly even 10 years back we did not know to produce automatic gear box. Please do not tell me we did not have the talent.

We have more than enough talent, technical brain. abundant man power, land all other required potentialities. But one of the pre requisites is corruption free atmosphere for the industries to thrive.
So many industries in India could not break-even and sick industries could not turn around because of prevalent corruption. This is my views I wanted to put forth.

Whatever may be the topic of discussion, the discussion turns around with heated arguments.
about Brahmins and Brahmanism. We can all , exclusively discuss the points, what are the threats & hindrances for the development of our community ..... our own lack of unity or Dravidian's concept of Brahman and Brahmanism.
 
hi

too much religious is always a problem for any material development of country.....not only india/muslim countries too

many christian countries too,,,,so we need a medium approach in any matter......
 
We have more than enough talent, technical brain. abundant man power, land all other required potentialities. But one of the pre requisites is corruption free atmosphere for the industries to thrive.
So many industries in India could not break-even and sick industries could not turn around because of prevalent corruption. This is my views I wanted to put forth.

Whatever may be the topic of discussion, the discussion turns around with heated arguments.
about Brahmins and Brahmanism. We can all , exclusively discuss the points, what are the threats & hindrances for the development of our community ..... our own lack of unity or Dravidian's concept of Brahman and Brahmanism.

In a country with about 85 crores of hindus, we had to have a Parsee, Dr. Homi Bhaba (popularly known as the father of the Indian Nuclear Programme), a Jain, Vikram Sarabhai (father of India's space programme) and lately one Avul Pakeer Jainulabdeen Abdul Kalaam (India's missile man)! None of the 85 crores of "hindus" had the skill, tenacity or knowledge to do any of these three things. What more evidence does one want to realize that hinduism with its Brahmanical core will never produce any real talents but can only create a population which will become more and more inventive in corruption techniques? Hence, it is better for us and this country that hindus become less attached to the religion and try to emulate the westerners.

Already, a good number of our people have migrated and settled down as citizens of USA, UK, Germany, etc. But we do not find any sparks like either Mr. Michael Faraday, Mr. George Stevenson or Dr. Albert Einstein rising up from among them. May be in due course, when their further generations intermarry with people of other nationalities and/or religions such eminent intellects will germinate from the expatriate hindus.
 
Will the accomplishments of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajagopala_Chidambara Dr. R. Chidambaram https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajagopala_Chidambara and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajagopala_Chidambaram#Nuclear_program
count? (He was even denied a visa by US (to attend ain a conference) for participating in the nuclear power program in India)

In smiling Budha https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smiling_Buddha there were eight scients listed - out of which at least three or four have similar backgrounds (may be different ideologies)
 
Will the accomplishments of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajagopala_Chidambara Dr. R. Chidambaram https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajagopala_Chidambara and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rajagopala_Chidambaram#Nuclear_program
count? (He was even denied a visa by US (to attend ain a conference) for participating in the nuclear power program in India)

In smiling Budha https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smiling_Buddha there were eight scients listed - out of which at least three or four have similar backgrounds (may be different ideologies)

Whereas Homi Bhaba and Vikram Sarabhai initiated the nuclear programme of India and the Space research programme of India when no such thing existed, Shri Chidambaram comes out as one among the many scientists who worked in BARC, the Pokhran tests, etc. May be that is why he is not hailed as "the father of the smiling Buddha project" or something like that. AFAIK it was Abdul Kalam who motivated Bajpai to go ahead with the Pokhran programme, the earlier one under Indira Gandhi's rule was done under Dr. Raja Ramanna.
 
Already, a good number of our people have migrated and settled down as citizens of USA, UK, Germany, etc. But we do not find any sparks like either Mr. Michael Faraday, Mr. George Stevenson or Dr. Albert Einstein rising up from among them. May be in due course, when their further generations intermarry with people of other nationalities and/or religions such eminent intellects will germinate from the expatriate hindus.

By this token of probability, at least a few Anglo-Indians should have been innovators or scientists of eminence, but we do not find any leave alone many.
 
By this token of probability, at least a few Anglo-Indians should have been innovators or scientists of eminence, but we do not find any leave alone many.

Anglo-indians are people of British ancestry living in India. Most anglo-indians had to marry Indians, in the initial days and thus the place of residence and the compulsions of the indian societal norms might have curtailed their inventive streak. Even so, there are many outstanding personalities including George Orwell, among the anglo-indians. There is also Mr. Stephen Hector Taylor-Smith ( often known as Stephen Smith), a pioneering rocket scientist who developed techniques in delivering parcels by means of rockets.
 
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