Why so much animosity??

[ashwin_ash]

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Oh ash, how quickly one snatches obnoxious from the jaws of adorable!!! Now, pray tell, what legend is this? Where did you find it, what is the source, I am all ears .......

Yes, I agree with you that some animals are more evolved than some humans, of course ....

You win, Nara. I stand corrected. It was Ramanand.. Vedas Recited by Buffalo | Kabir Association of Canada

 

[ashwin_ash]

You win, Nara. I stand corrected. It was Ramanand.. Vedas Recited by Buffalo | Kabir Association of Canada

But it still involves Ramanuja's followers..

 

[Nara]

But it still involves Ramanuja's followers..

Do elaborate, don't let us hanging from tender hooks, what the hell are you talking about?

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

The legends of the Buffalo is a adapted variation of the story of Jnna Dev

Jnanadev was very keen on wearing the holy thread in order to fulfil the desire of his parents who had sacrificed their lives even for that purpose. He again approached the Brahmins of Alandi. The Brahmins now were moved to pity when they saw the helpless condition of those boys. They said to them, "Bring a letter of authorization from the learned Brahmins of Paithan. We will then perform the thread ceremony for you". The boys went to Paithan and saw the learned Brahmins. They recited the Vedas. The Brahmins said, "You are not entitled to recite the. Vedas. Stop the recitation now. You are the sons of a Sannyasin who came back again to his Grihastha Ashrama". Jnanadev replied, "Anybody may recite the Vedas. Even this buffalo may recite". He placed his hand on the back of the buffalo and immediately the buffalo recited the Veda for one hour, from the point where Jnanadev had left, with correct rhythm and intonation. The Brahmins were struck with wonder and awe. They said, "These are not ordinary boys. They are the very incarnations of Shankar, Vishnu and Brahma".

Jnanadev

I was not aware that the Smarthas of Tamil Nadu had adapted the story to throw mud on Ramanujacharya.

 

[ashwin_ash]

Do elaborate, don't let us hanging from tender hooks, what the hell are you talking about?

click the link from my previous post

 

[krish44]

The legends of the Buffalo is a adapted variation of the story of Jnna Dev


Jnanadev

I was not aware that the Smarthas of Tamil Nadu had adapted the story to throw mud on Ramanujacharya.

I found the story interesting. how does it throw mud on ramanujacharya. I would like to be educated

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

I found the story interesting. how does it throw mud on ramanujacharya. I would like to be educated

Not that story. But the post from the member.

 

[renuka]

madam Ash is an iyer . he cannot behave otherwise. well done Ash. keep it up .you got only one complaint from nachinarkiniyan. he must be an iyengar. renuka ji has escaped saying that she is a NB.

My reply saying that I am NB was to only you Krish Ji cos you were asking me if I accept converts from Iyengars to Iyers..I was wondering what?? Has Krish forgotten that I am a NB..why should I accept or reject anyone??

 

[Vaagmi]

What a lot of confusion here. Oh lord, lead kindly light. TamasOmA jyOtirgamaya. SabkO sanmati dE BhagwAn.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

THE REASON FOR VAISHNAVITES THINKING SUPERIOR TO OTHER FAITHS IS THEIR GODS ARE BEING WORHSIPPED AND GIVING MORE IMPORTANCE BY OTHER FAITHS IN HINDUISM.

TAMIL NADU WAS NEVER RULED BY A TAMIL KING, WHO HAS FAITH IN VAISHNAVISM. EARLIER TAMIL RULERS BELONGED TO JAINISM, BUDDHISM AND SAIVISM. ONLY AFTER THE ADVENT OF TELUGU RULERS VAISHNAVISM HAD A ROOT IN TAMIL NADU. APART FROM THIS, THE NEGLECT OF RAMANUJA, WHO WAS A SMARTHA BY BIRTH (VADAMA SECT), AND HIS SUBSEQUENT CONVERSION TO VAISHNAVISM ALSO CAUSED THE GROWTH OF VAISHNAVISM.

SINCE ADI SANKAR’S INFLUENCE WAS SO MUCH, UNFORTUNATELY RAMANUJA WAS SIDELINED. AS A RESULT, SIZEABLE NUMBER OF IYERS FROM VADAMA AND BRAHACHARANAM SECTS WENT WITH RAMANUJA – ONE OF MY ROOM MATES IN THE 80s WHOSE FATHER’s NAME IS RANGACHARI BELONGED TO BRAHACHARANAM SECT.

THE INVALUABLE SERVICE WHICH IS BEING OFFERED BY KANCHI AND SRINGERI MUTTS IS ALSO ATTRIBUTED TO ITS GROWTH. WHILE BOTH KANCHI AND SRIGERI MUTTS HAVE THEIR PATRONAGE FROM SMARTHAS – VIBUTHI IS THE BINDING FACTOR - , THE MUTTS GIVING IMPORTANCE TO VAISHNAVITE WORKS LIKE RAMAYANA, MAHABARATHA, GITA IS MORE THAN THEIR CONTRIBUTION TO SAIVITE WORKS LIKE THEVARAM, THIRUVASAGAM, PERIA PURANAM, THIRUVEMBAVAI ETC. (PROBABLY WRITTEN BY NON-BRAHMINS).

NOTABLE EXAMPLE IS JAYANDRA SARASWATHI USUALLY CONCLUDES HIS SPEECH BY CHANTING ‘NARAYANA, NARAYANA’, WITH VIBUTHI ON HIS FOREHEAD.



ADI SANKARA AMALGAMATED FIVE DIFFERENT FORMS OF WORSHIP INTO ONE. WHILE FOUR HAVE MINGLED TOGETHER AND BEING WORSHIPPED IN SHIVA TEMPLES, VAISHAVITE GODS WENT SEPARATE AND ARE BEING LOOKED AFTER BY SEPARATE MUTTS.

WHILE SANKARA MUTTS SURVIVE WITH TOTAL SUPPORT FROM SAIVITE BRAHMINS WITH VIBUTHI AS BINDING FACTOR, AS VAISHNAVITES HAVE THEIR OWN MUTT LEADERS IN LARGE NUMBERS, THEIR SERVICE TO VAISHNAVISM IS MORE.

IN THE 80s, SRIRANGAM RAJAGOPURAM WAS BUILT WITH THE SOLE SUPPORT OF PARAMACHARYA, SINCE HIS INFLUENCE WITH HINDUS WAS MORE THAN ALL JEARS PUT TOGETHER.

SOME YEARS BACK, JAYAENDRA SARASWATHI DONATED A POONAL MADE OF GOLD WORTH LAKHS OF RUPEES TO TIRUPATHI.

ALL THESE ACTIVITIES MADE VAISHNAVITES IN TAMIL NADU THINK THEY ARE SUPERIOR TO OTHERS.

THE NEED OF THE HOUR IS SANKARA MUTTS FOLLOW THE SMARTHA PRINCIPLES WITHOUT ANY DEVIATION, AS THEY HAVE NO INFLUENCE TO PREVAIL UPON VAISHNAVITE MUTTS TO COME TOGETHER.

Why in Tamil Nadu, there is so much animosity between Shaiva and Vishnava Brahmins. On of my college Iyengar friend told that his family doesn't go to a shaiva/murugan temple coz they are Vaishnava. Also finding anything related to Shiva in Vishnava temple or vice-versa is very rare in SouthIndian temples. In North-India, atleast in my place its as equal to blasphemy to differentiate between Lord Shiva or Lord Vishnu. Acc to Ramacharitmanas, Lord Rama never accepts a Shiva-drohi and similar case for Lord Shiva with respect to Rama. Also Puranas show that Lord Shiva and Lord Vishnu used to revere each other. Then whats the reason, that in TN I find Shaivism and Vaishnavism as parallel religions. Also Dasavataram shows something like Shiva and Viashnavas were like Muslims and Christians to each other in Chola period. I have deep respect for TN as it is repository of Purer form of Hinduism. But why this animosity?? Kindly explain this with relevant historical or philosophical info..... And plz don't indulge in mudslinging.....

hiranmayena pâtrena satyasyâpihitaM mukham,
tat tvaM pûSannapâvRinu satyadharmâya dRiSTaye.

 

[krish44]

My reply saying that I am NB was to only you Krish Ji cos you were asking me if I accept converts from Iyengars to Iyers..I was wondering what?? Has Krish forgotten that I am a NB..why should I accept or reject anyone??

madam I am a new member . I did not know yr caste . nor this knowledge matters much to me .renuka ji I liked your outspoken views in some of yr posts .sorry ,. my comment was under the impression you relate to iyer caste and hence the comment . It stands withdrawn.

 

[krish44]

What a lot of confusion here. Oh lord, lead kindly light. TamasOmA jyOtirgamaya. SabkO sanmati dE BhagwAn.

vaagmi ji . I had a morning to kill between my work assignments .sanmati was set aside for morning fun .hope nobody is hurt krish44

 

[ashwin_ash]

madam I am a new member . I did not know yr caste . nor this knowledge matters much to me .renuka ji I liked your outspoken views in some of yr posts .sorry ,. my comment was under the impression you relate to iyer caste and hence the comment . It stands withdrawn.

This is the link I was referring to, I'm not sure if it throws mud or whatever on Ramanujan- Vedas Recited by Buffalo | Kabir Association of Canada

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

This is a story which adapted by the Kabir pantis for their propaganda against the Caste system.


Do you hate the Iyengars so much that you would quote anyone.

I am asking you and your followers.

Why so much animosity. Your animosity is reflected back.

You would rather side with the Brahmin baiters than with Iyengars

Wirth friends like you Brahmins do not need enemies.

BTW I am not a SriVaishnava.

 

[renuka]

madam I am a new member . I did not know yr caste . nor this knowledge matters much to me .renuka ji I liked your outspoken views in some of yr posts .sorry ,. my comment was under the impression you relate to iyer caste and hence the comment . It stands withdrawn.

Dear Krish ji,

No problems yaar..I too did not realize you are new..I was thinking you were a veteran here cos many members have the name Krish too..only now I saw you joined in Dec 2013.

I am still waiting for Vaagmi ji to answer my question about Maheswara Sutras...lets wait and watch!LOL

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Legend has it that Ramanujan couldn't find people to preach his philosophy to, so he preached to a buffalo instead. Technically, the first iyengar was a buffalo. No offence meant, animals have feelings same as people do, i would even say animals are more evolved than humans.. no caste creed etc..

Now you are quoting this source.

Vedas Recited by Buffalo | Kabir Association of Canada

What does this web site say:

Vedas Recited by Buffalo


Satguru Kabir Saheb never agreed with the caste system. Many disciples of Swami Ramanand were of low caste. Once Swami Ramanandji was invited to attend a function at Totadri, a place in South India, where the majority of the followers of Ramanuja Vaishnava sect lived. They adhered strictly to the caste system. When Swami Ramanand’s disciples arrived with their belongings loaded on a buffalo, the main priest was confused because the disciples were of various castes. His problem was how to feed them without humiliating his guests. After a discussion with other priests, he declared that only those who could recite the Vedic verses would be allowed to eat with the Brahmins. The others would have to eat elsewhere. Satguru Kabir Saheb did not like that decision and taught them a lesson. He told the head priest that the recitation of the Vedic verses is not difficult even for the buffalo. He told one of his disciples to bring the buffalo. Kabir Saheb told the buffalo: “Please recite some verses of the Vedas.” The buffalo immediately started reciting verses from the Vedas. All the Brahmins were astonished with Kabir’s superhuman power. They were more embarrassed when Kabir Saheb told them to allow the buffalo to sit with them. They realized their folly and, with due respect, bowed down to Kabir Saheb and asked for his forgiveness. Consequently, all the sadhus and saints were allowed to eat together.

Please tell us how you have arrived at the conclusion

Ramanujan couldn't find people to preach his philosophy to, so he preached to a buffalo instead. Technically, the first iyengar was a buffalo.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Vaagmi ji,

I got a question for you..

When I recite the 14 Maheswara Sutras before I commence my daily study of Panini's Grammar sometimes I wonder..will a Vaishnavite recite the Maheswara Sutras especially the last part "iti mAheshvarAni SutrAni"?

I have no problem reciting any stotra or sutra, rudram or chamakam as long as I gain knowledge. Whenever I pray to any murthy other than Vishnu and His avatars, I pray to the antaryami in that murthy which, for me, is again Vishnu. So no problem whatsoever going to any temple-even a Kathavarayan or Isakki Amman temple.. I don't care if people call me a Iyengar fanatic or any thing worse than that for my unwavering faith in my God because I have respect for every faith. If some one comes and tells me that he is very broadminded than me because he prays to all the Gods my answer will be that I dont think it is broadmindedness or maturity. It is just confusion. It will be broad mindedness if he includes The Father and Son of Christianity and the God of Islam also in his list of Gods that he worships and include their anthropomorphic forms also in the daily pooja with shodasa upachara. If God is one and has many forms and so he worships them all without any difference then why keep out the Gods of Abrahamic faith? Just because they came later? Why do you want to be frozen in the distant past? Become truly catholic and Include them too to become truly eclisiatic or broadminded and mature really. I am unable to do that because my pea brain tells me that there can be only one God whom you call by some name and faithfully worship it and be loyal just to that. Dont fritter away your loyalty(is it loyalty then?) in too many entities calling them all God. A singleminded purposeful worship is more meaningful than worshipping for the sake of being cosmopolitan, catholic,mature, broadminded etc. I have to be honest to myself first. That is all. Thanks. Now your question has been answered.

I still await reply to my post #2 from the OP poster.

 

[ashwin_ash]

Now you are quoting this source.

Vedas Recited by Buffalo | Kabir Association of Canada

What does this web site say:



Please tell us how you have arrived at the conclusion

Sir,

I do wish to substantiate, but Mr Moderator is hovering over me like a strict headmaster. Meanwhile, please enjoy your "thainjan"(curd rice), "monjan"(variant of curd rice), "sathamadhu", "rasamadhu", "chicken-65adhu", "mutton paya-adhu", "fishadhu" etc etc!

Chill out!!

 

[prasad1]

This thread is meandering, the original poster himself lost the plot, and now is teetering on the edge of banishment (his own words).
Yes I see there is animosity between any two groups of people, then if you dig in the group you find animosity between the members of the group. It is being individual.

I have a feeling that these newbies are here just to stir the pot (to kill time), and they will move on.

 

[ashwin_ash]

This thread is meandering, the original poster himself lost the plot, and now is teetering on the edge of banishment (his own words).
Yes I see there is animosity between any two groups of people, then if you dig in the group you find animosity between the members of the group. It is being individual.

I have a feeling that these newbies are here just to stir the pot (to kill time), and they will move on.

Cut out the holier-than-thou attitude. Your superiority complex is sickening, to say the least. And I'm no newbie and have been around a while. In any case, you are no arbiter. Judge not, others will judge you similarly.

 

[ashwin_ash]

This thread is meandering, the original poster himself lost the plot, and now is teetering on the edge of banishment (his own words).
Yes I see there is animosity between any two groups of people, then if you dig in the group you find animosity between the members of the group. It is being individual.

I have a feeling that these newbies are here just to stir the pot (to kill time), and they will move on.

FYI, I do not wish to quote several facts to substantiate my claims, for reasons best known to me.

 

[Vaagmi]

Sir,

I do wish to substantiate, but Mr Moderator is hovering over me like a strict headmaster. Meanwhile, please enjoy your "thainjan"(curd rice), "monjan"(variant of curd rice), "sathamadhu", "rasamadhu", "chicken-65adhu", "mutton paya-adhu", "fishadhu" etc etc!

Chill out!!

What a taste! Perhaps while advising this list of "adhu"s to Mr. Nachinarkiniyan, what do you relish and enjoy? Roasted worms and maggot soups? LOL.

 

[prasad1]

Cut out the holier-than-thou attitude. Your superiority complex is sickening, to say the least. And I'm no newbie and have been around a while. In any case, you are no arbiter. Judge not, others will judge you similarly.

Mine was an observation, where was the the judgment of you? My opinion about you stays with me.

But again we are all judgmental, otherwise we will not have any opinion.

 

[Nara]

Why are you asking me if I accept Iyer converts from Iyengar?? I am not even a Brahmin to start with!LOL

I told you, he is smitten ....

 

[Nara]

....SINCE ADI SANKAR’S INFLUENCE WAS SO MUCH, UNFORTUNATELY RAMANUJA WAS SIDELINED. AS A RESULT, SIZEABLE NUMBER OF IYERS FROM VADAMA AND BRAHACHARANAM SECTS WENT WITH RAMANUJA – ONE OF MY ROOM MATES IN THE 80s WHOSE FATHER’s NAME IS RANGACHARI BELONGED TO BRAHACHARANAM SECT.

Hello Chandru, you are posting this for the second time I think, may be more than that. BTW, why all CAPS, is it because you are Chandru 1849?

Anyway, you are mixing facts and fiction into an aviyal. Yes, most Tamil kings were Shaivites and Vaishnavam gained foothold after Ramanuja, but Ramanuja is not the founder of SV, he was just the most prominent figure. Also, Adi Shankara was no Shaivite extraordinair, the first commentary he wrote was on Vishnu Sahasranamam, yes, Vishnu LOL. He also wrote commentary on Gita. For Adi Shankara, the saguna Brahman was Naryana, it is in that tradition the present day Shankara Matham heads use Narayana Narayana as their signatures.

THE NEED OF THE HOUR IS SANKARA MUTTS FOLLOW THE SMARTHA PRINCIPLES WITHOUT ANY DEVIATION, AS THEY HAVE NO INFLUENCE TO PREVAIL UPON VAISHNAVITE MUTTS TO COME TOGETHER.

This is the need of hour? What is Smartha principle around which you want to circle the wagon?

Poor Nachinar, he is pleading himself hoarse for Brahmin unity -- this kind of total ignorance of history hand-in-hand with absolute certainty of their own version of it, is what he has to deal with.....