Women no more unsafe in India than elsewhere: French minister

[sarang]

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Perhaps this observation by a french minister may help media and the screaming ngos and blaming nris and resident indians to get a proper and sensitive perspective on 'rape'. Today the tv channels are screaming "rapist principal goes scotfree" as the 'crimes against women commission' has exonerated him for lack of evidence.

"Women in India are perhaps no more unsafe than those in France and there are nearly 200 rapes a day in France, a visiting French minister said here.

This rather surprising admission was made by French minister for women's rights as well as the spokesperson of the French government, Najat Vallaud-Belkacem, during an interaction with the press at the French embassy late Monday night.

Belkacem was speaking to the press at the end of her four-day visit to India, which began Oct 25 and which was focused on improving cooperation between the two nations and fostering greater collaboration and contacts between the NGOs working for women's rights in France and in India.

"There are more similarities between France and India than we may believe," Belkacem said, referring to the situation of women.

"We had seen a lot of press coverage of the mass rape of the young student last December in New Delhi," she said and added that unfortunately women in France too suffer a great deal of violence.

"There are nearly 200 rapes a day in France and those who think that rapes can happen only in a particular country are mistaken," she said.

"As in India, the victims in France, too, are reluctant to come forward and report the crime or seek prosecution of the perpetrators. We, in France, estimate that only one in 10 women comes ahead to report a case," Belkacem stated.

France and India have the same struggles and challenges as far as women were concerned, she told the press.

Women no more unsafe in India than elsewhere: French minister - The New Indian Express

 

[Nara]

Goody, women in India are just as unsafe as the women in France!!!

 

[Raghy]

Sri. Sarang,

Kindly never mind about views expressed by someone in France, please. Kindly ask your dear and near about their own safety feeling in India. Last year I almost got into a fist fight in defense of my wife; on two occasions my daughter sensed the danger in Bangalore, stuck behind me while I was calm and ready. Here in Australia at times she feels so safe, once she went out at 1 AM to help her friend broke down on the high way.

Cheers!

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

My wife was almost kidnapped by a taxi driver in Kolkata about 4 years back. When we told our friends we realized that this was not a very rare occurrence. A 60 year old woman not safe during day time. After that we are very careful.

I do not know what is happening in France or U.S. In Paris and New York my wife did not go out alone. She did not have to. But In Kolkata she has to.

Kolkata is not a safe city for women. And the government and all the political parties are least bothered. Our Chief Minister called the Rape in Park street, a Drama. A staged act.

 

[kunjuppu]

Personally I am scared of women going alone even in today's Chennai. The Madras I grew up without knowing fear.

Today when I come to Chennai, and when we have to take an auto or a taxi, I get in first, and only then mrs K or any other lady accompanying me does. So that, the auto/cab cannot drive away without me. And with her.

When we have to get out, the reverse order is followed.

mrs K respects that. and complies. one of the few times...hee hee

 

[P.J.]

India's most unsafe cities for women

Statistics from National Crime Records Bureau’s Crime in India 2012 report has been plotted on a graph by CNN-IBN to highlight which Indian cities have the highest rate of reported crime against women. Vijayawada in Andra Pradesh is the most unsafe while Delhi which in recent times has been in limelight for high profile crimes against women ranks 16 out of the 53 cities. Chennai is the safest metro city in the country. Kerala is a bit weird with the safest as well as most unsafe cities by the way of Kollam and Mallapuram in the list.


The fact that a large metro city like Chennai ranks very well in safety for women could could be due to its accomplished police force with the highest number of women police officers on duty in this country. The Tamil Nadu police in Chennai has the highest number of women police stations in the country with the most modern police control room with a large fleet of cars with cops on patrol in the city. A visitor to Chennai might find the police rather intrusive as mid-night falls with patrol cars pulling up to question you and dispersing away groups of men quickly with loud speakers. But the kind of policing seems effective.


In a study by Stanford university, it was found that if police officers are regularly on patrol and pick up on petty crime like drunkenness on the road or loitering by gangs, the crime rate in the city including murders and rapes dropped drastically. This may be attributed to the “broken windows theory.” If this is the case for Chennai’s lower crime rate, then other cities should invest in more cops on the road.

India?s most unsafe cities for women | INDIA?CD


HOWEVER EVEN THE SAFEST PLACE FOR WOMEN BECOMES UNSAFE ON OCCASIONS LIKE NEW YEAR EVE.

 

[renuka]

I dont get what the OP is trying to convey??

You mean to say just becos France if also unsafe for woman so Indians can rejoice that "hey we are not so bad after all" and let crime against woman continue?

This is just trying to justify crime by saying others do it too..so its no big deal.

How come now aping the west is not wrong? LOL

 

[vgane]

We can comment only about what is happening in India..In the National Capital region (Delhi) women are utterly unsafe after the dusk...Most of the people prefer to commute in their own vehicles here

The safety and security of women has taken a beating in the digital age

Women of all ages are advised to travel in groups

We definitely need to make our country safe for women!

 

[prasad1]

Some of us are in denial, and when we have a party agenda in mind, you will tell any lie to believe the party line. The reality is to be gleaned from women in Indian cities. I have traveled 4 Indian cities in last month, I hear tale of horrors from women. We need to make India safe for women.

 

[கால பைரவன்]

Some of us are in denial, and when we have a party agenda in mind, you will tell any lie to believe the party line.

Dear Prasad,

Welcome back.

I do not think the OP had any party agenda in mind when he posted it.

There is a concerted effort in the media to somehow link the assaults on women happening in this country to hindu culture/religion. I think OP is a reaction to this mindset.

 

[sangom]

I dont get what the OP is trying to convey??

You mean to say just becos France if also unsafe for woman so Indians can rejoice that "hey we are not so bad after all" and let crime against woman continue?

This is just trying to justify crime by saying others do it too..so its no big deal.

How come now aping the west is not wrong? LOL

Smt. Renuka,

I hold that "aping the west" is the root cause of many evils in the present day Indian society, including the lack of safety for women. My diagnosis is an enlightened Indian Jihadi rule which will remove all the undesirable west-aping from India. Most probably if NaMo becomes PM something like what I recommend may come into existence.

 

[C RAVI]

Smt. Renuka,

I hold that "aping the west" is the root cause of many evils in the present day Indian society, including the lack of safety for women. My diagnosis is an enlightened Indian Jihadi rule which will remove all the undesirable west-aping from India. Most probably if NaMo becomes PM something like what I recommend may come into existence.

Shri.Sangom,

I second your opinion..

I believe, NaMo would channelize human and material resources productively to achieve improvement and progress, along with retaining & strengthening India cultural uniqueness, while keeping pace with the advancing world, in this globalized environment.

Implementing indigenous action plans in line with cultural ethos would be emphasized and would be followed to mean true pragmatism, without losing the unique identity and values.

 

[biswa]

Sure women are unsafe. But what are the mothers, sisters, daughters doing to curb the behavior of the men in their family?

Another interesting read: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/20/opinion/sunday/the-good-men-of-india.html?_r=0

 

[Nara]

...I hold that "aping the west" is the root cause of many evils in the present day Indian society, including the lack of safety for women. My diagnosis is an enlightened Indian Jihadi rule which will remove all the undesirable west-aping from India. Most probably if NaMo becomes PM something like what I recommend may come into existence.

Dear sangom I can't pass up this opportunity to highlight we are not a monolith blindly supporting each other like the cheerleading crowd we see on the other side.

I strongly reject the view that aping the West is the root cause of any evil, let alone many. Here, we need to realize that West is not some homogeneous borg like entity out to assimilate everyone. Sure, there is the neocons and the exceptionalists who want to rule over everyone else. Then there is the mindless commercial consumerist culture. These are the banes not just for Indians, but the West also.

We must also recognize the scientific advancements of the West, in a range of fields including lo and behold philosophy, that all of us benefit from everyday. Your desire for a Indian Jihadi rule is most unwise. Who is to determine what constitutes, as you say, the "undesirable west-aping"? The slippery slope that it will set us off on is all too obvious, that too with bloody handed NaMo at the helm.

The West is not the enemy, avarice is, which is common to both the West and the East. The progressives from the West and East must find common cause and fight these global capitalist menace out to destroy our mother earth. Let us not divide ourselves along the artificial lines the colonialists, casteist Hindutva folks and global capitalists have drawn for advancing their own agenda of exploitation and expropriation.

regards ....

 

[prasad1]

Dear Prasad,

Welcome back.

I do not think the OP had any party agenda in mind when he posted it.

There is a concerted effort in the media to somehow link the assaults on women happening in this country to hindu culture/religion. I think OP is a reaction to this mindset.

you may have been right when you wrote your posting. But the subsequent posts make my party line statement correct.

Some of us are pinning hope on the Savior, hope he wins and delivers, but I doubt it. There is not enough whitewash to cover all the ills of society even in RamaRajya leave alone a human Namo.

 

[Nacchinarkiniyan]

Whatever happens in India will be linked to Hindu culture/religion. That is but natural because Hindus form the majority here. The attitude of Islam towards Women is well known to the entire world. It is the attitude of the Hindus which makes the difference.

It is not that India has suddenly become unsafe for women. We are beginning to know the reality only now when the women have started coming out. When women have started protesting. We never realized how unsafe our women are, because we had prevented them from coming out. Our mothers and grandmothers were safe because they never went out alone in unknown places.

The countless rapes in villages were hidden. No one was ever punished. Because of the social stigma the women did not complain. Even when they complained thy never got justice. Rape was the fovorite pastime of the Indian land owning class.

I started seeing Malayalam movies in the early seventies when I was in Kerala. What struck me was that every movie had a rape scene. When I asked my collegues they confirmed that it did reflect the society in general. Rape was common and was rarely if ever punished.

I do not think things would improve. Every day I see some leader or the other almost justfying rape. Blaming the women. Blaming Westernization. Blaming every thing except the society we live in. The Values which we do not have. How inhuman we have become. We do not want to know the rot that has set in in our society.

The Tamil brahmins are one of the worst offenders. They hate Women. Consider them as chattels or worse.

 

[sravna]

Dear sangom I can't pass up this opportunity to highlight we are not a monolith blindly supporting each other like the cheerleading crowd we see on the other side.

I strongly reject the view that aping the West is the root cause of any evil, let alone many. Here, we need to realize that West is not some homogeneous borg like entity out to assimilate everyone. Sure, there is the neocons and the exceptionalists who want to rule over everyone else. Then there is the mindless commercial consumerist culture. These are the banes not just for Indians, but the West also.

We must also recognize the scientific advancements of the West, in a range of fields including lo and behold philosophy, that all of us benefit from everyday. Your desire for a Indian Jihadi rule is most unwise. Who is to determine what constitutes, as you say, the "undesirable west-aping"? The slippery slope that it will set us off on is all too obvious, that too with bloody handed NaMo at the helm.

The West is not the enemy, avarice is, which is common to both the West and the East. The progressives from the West and East must find common cause and fight these global capitalist menace out to destroy our mother earth. Let us not divide ourselves along the artificial lines the colonialists, casteist Hindutva folks and global capitalists have drawn for advancing their own agenda of exploitation and expropriation.

regards ....

No one can deny that we are aping the west and all the consequent problems we are facing. The fact that west is also facing the same problems only says that we are not correct in following the western models. Avarice is in the nature of both west and east but the west doesn't view it as undesirable but our society does though because of the mindless aping of the west we also see it in the same way now.

All the aping that works towards taking your self control out are undesirable and sadly this is mostly what we embrace. Even the so called benefits from the western science and technology finally produce the above results mostly because those are for comforts of the body and not for the mind. Physical comforts and convenience are definitely important but also definitely not at the expense of those of the mind. This is where the west has not been judicious and so are we too for blindly accepting them.

 

[sangom]

Dear sangom I can't pass up this opportunity to highlight we are not a monolith blindly supporting each other like the cheerleading crowd we see on the other side.

I strongly reject the view that aping the West is the root cause of any evil, let alone many. Here, we need to realize that West is not some homogeneous borg like entity out to assimilate everyone. Sure, there is the neocons and the exceptionalists who want to rule over everyone else. Then there is the mindless commercial consumerist culture. These are the banes not just for Indians, but the West also.

We must also recognize the scientific advancements of the West, in a range of fields including lo and behold philosophy, that all of us benefit from everyday. Your desire for a Indian Jihadi rule is most unwise. Who is to determine what constitutes, as you say, the "undesirable west-aping"? The slippery slope that it will set us off on is all too obvious, that too with bloody handed NaMo at the helm.

The West is not the enemy, avarice is, which is common to both the West and the East. The progressives from the West and East must find common cause and fight these global capitalist menace out to destroy our mother earth. Let us not divide ourselves along the artificial lines the colonialists, casteist Hindutva folks and global capitalists have drawn for advancing their own agenda of exploitation and expropriation.

regards ....

Dear Shri Nara,

That we both do not agree on every topic in a mindless manner, should be amply clear, by now, to our friends on the other side.

You will kindly note that I have not written against everything that is western. But there are certain aspects of the west mostly social aspects, for which India is not yet ready, in my view. One such thing is what the NYT report refers to as follows:—

"Indian cities are awash with feral men, untethered from their distant villages, divorced from family and social structure, fighting poverty, exhausted, denied access to regular female companionship, adrift on powerful tides of alcohol and violent pornography, newly exposed to the smart young women of the cities, with their glistening jobs and clothes and casual independence — and not able to respond to any of it in a safe, civilized manner. This is the world of women under siege, the medieval world of the walking undead, the rise of the zombies, targeting females rich and poor. For women, at least, winter is coming."

The NYT article refers also to another scenario, a flight and says the men on board that flight were of the most excellent behaviour. But you will agree that the whole of India and its menfolk cannot be upgraded to that flight-status menfolk in a short time. In my view this may take a few more decades. Till then it may be advisable for Indian women to follow the age old practices for safeguarding themselves.

Womenfolk here have been going for jobs for more than 4 or 5 decades now and the incidents of rape have increased only during the recent past. I personally feel that mobile phones, internet availability, hard-core pornography and the "the smart young women of the cities, with their glistening jobs and clothes and casual independence" - as the NYT report puts it, plus the recent trends in advertising, have all contributed to this state of affairs.

The west has, of course, very many items about which it can be genuinely proud of and India should make use of all such items for the country's best advantage. Thus, when I say "aping the West" I am not blaming the West, but only the mindless adoption of anything and everything by India without any regard to the ground realities in this country.

 

[vgane]

Dear Shri Nara,

That we both do not agree on every topic in a mindless manner, should be amply clear, by now, to our friends on the other side.

You will kindly note that I have not written against everything that is western. But there are certain aspects of the west mostly social aspects, for which India is not yet ready, in my view. One such thing is what the NYT report refers to as follows:—

"Indian cities are awash with feral men, untethered from their distant villages, divorced from family and social structure, fighting poverty, exhausted, denied access to regular female companionship, adrift on powerful tides of alcohol and violent pornography, newly exposed to the smart young women of the cities, with their glistening jobs and clothes and casual independence — and not able to respond to any of it in a safe, civilized manner. This is the world of women under siege, the medieval world of the walking undead, the rise of the zombies, targeting females rich and poor. For women, at least, winter is coming."

The NYT article refers also to another scenario, a flight and says the men on board that flight were of the most excellent behaviour. But you will agree that the whole of India and its menfolk cannot be upgraded to that flight-status menfolk in a short time. In my view this may take a few more decades. Till then it may be advisable for Indian women to follow the age old practices for safeguarding themselves.

Womenfolk here have been going for jobs for more than 4 or 5 decades now and the incidents of rape have increased only during the recent past. I personally feel that mobile phones, internet availability, hard-core pornography and the "the smart young women of the cities, with their glistening jobs and clothes and casual independence" - as the NYT report puts it, plus the recent trends in advertising, have all contributed to this state of affairs.

The west has, of course, very many items about which it can be genuinely proud of and India should make use of all such items for the country's best advantage. Thus, when I say "aping the West" I am not blaming the West, but only the mindless adoption of anything and everything by India without any regard to the ground realities in this country.

Sangomji,

You have hit the nail on the head...In addition the decadent influence of Cinema on the lumpen elements has got its adverse effect...The uneducated & uncouth clamoring and dreaming for the beautiful educated chick is the main storyline in many a movie thus accentuating the phenomenon

 

[C RAVI]

I do not think things would improve. Every day I see some leader or the other almost justfying rape. Blaming the women. Blaming Westernization. Blaming every thing except the society we live in. The Values which we do not have. How inhuman we have become. We do not want to know the rot that has set in in our society.

Specifically, referring to underlined statement -

Women are part of the society, Men are the same, Westernization is the society's living style now a days, Cinema, Advertisements, Pornography, Sex Tourism etc..etc. are the vivid ways of entertaining this society, with which men and women in general are happy to have found a liberal, colorful and joyful living and are trying to be a participant in one or many of these stuffs to prove to oneself and others that - Yes, we are living in this society as every other, totally in the way the society has evolved today.

Folks from Bungalow to Huts in slums, folks from higher education background to nil education are all chasing to live this whole some life that today's Indian Society is offering by adopting the Global Life Style patterns, by systematically brainwashing the public to adopt a different attitude/preferences/choices etc..etc that has spread virally from the Western World and been adopted every where.

This "aping the west" has different level of impacts on every other country. The worst effected are the countries with huge population and wide scale poverty.


When we blame and criticize such practices in society, "we are clearly blaming the society we live in", where every people have their contribution in the way the society is functioning. "We" are the society, we force the society to function the way we want and we have to blame our self for how the society is today. Blaming everything is nothing but blaming the Society.

The Tamil brahmins are one of the worst offenders. They hate Women. Consider them as chattels or worse.

This is totally wrong! The above statement of yours would only reflect some kind of your personal bitter experiences. I really would feel very sad for you if that's the case.

 

[sangom]

Whatever happens in India will be linked to Hindu culture/religion. That is but natural because Hindus form the majority here. The attitude of Islam towards Women is well known to the entire world. It is the attitude of the Hindus which makes the difference.

It is not that India has suddenly become unsafe for women. We are beginning to know the reality only now when the women have started coming out. When women have started protesting. We never realized how unsafe our women are, because we had prevented them from coming out. Our mothers and grandmothers were safe because they never went out alone in unknown places.

The countless rapes in villages were hidden. No one was ever punished. Because of the social stigma the women did not complain. Even when they complained thy never got justice. Rape was the fovorite pastime of the Indian land owning class.

I started seeing Malayalam movies in the early seventies when I was in Kerala. What struck me was that every movie had a rape scene. When I asked my collegues they confirmed that it did reflect the society in general. Rape was common and was rarely if ever punished.

In most of Indian society, boys and girls are brought up segregated right from a very young age. It is very rare that boys and girls come to view the naked body of the opposite sex, except when they are very young kids (less than 5 or 6 years) and accompany their elders to see a new-born infant in some house. Today even the new born infant can not be seen nude because it is almost always covered with a diaper or jetti or some kind of undercloth.

When young people reach a certain stage of growth at which their curiosity about (and attraction to) the other sex peaks, the males are naturally unable to suppress their overpowering emotions since they are constantly bombarded by erotic impulses almost all the time through the various media. And today drinks, drugs and other undesirable inputs are also rather easy to get in the market (including, I am told, viagra). So, naturally the sex-starved young men lose their self-control easily and embark on enjoying any female they can catch hold of; this is what usually results in the incidents of gang rape.

I honestly believe that in the olden days such "gang rapes" were not even heard of.

Cinema which depicts, as Shri Gane has rightly pointed out, "uneducated & uncouth hero clamoring for the heroine who is, almost always, from a very high social stratum and is very beautiful, educated, polished etc." makes some sections of our young men to forget about ground realities and to proclaim their so-called "love" for any such heroine-like young woman; in case the request is rebuffed, they take to extreme steps like throwing acid, burning, etc., or else, commit suicide.

Older men in India comprise a sizeable percentage who lead unsatisfactory sex-lives due to a variety of reasons. I think the root cause for this is the stigma which got attached to happy sexual enjoyment as a base way to live and the eulogies which hindu scriptures started making for the life of renunciate or sannyaasi. Such old men also utiliza opportunities available to them to explore and enjoy sex whenever they see a comparatively safe opportunity for doing so.

The situation, thus, is very complicated and may perhaps require the services of experts in several fields, in order to remove the cobwebs and to make the society a healthy one for women to feel safe.

The Tamil brahmins are one of the worst offenders. They hate Women. Consider them as chattels or worse.

IMHO, tabras are neither better, nor worse than the rest of the society in such matters. But, may be, they will not dare to join any gang which is set to exploit women.

 

[Nara]

.... Avarice is in the nature of both west and east but the west doesn't view it as undesirable but our society does though because of the mindless aping of the west we also see it in the same way now.

sravna, do you really believe in the West avarice is not viewed as undesirable? If so, I am talking to someone who is woefully ill informed. Do you realize socialism is a Western idea?

Unbridled capitalism is what avarice is all about, but the charge of aping the West is never raised on that count, but only when topics like the title of this thread is raised. They have no problem aping the West for all the material comforts they want to enjoy, no problem when they need access to modern medical technology and treatment, no problem using the Western model of economic exploitation of the poor and the natural resources, but the moment they see an independent woman not afraid to speak her mind charge of aping the West come with the force of a raging river. Therefore, the charge of misogyny is a valid one albeit the worst offenders are the traditional religious types of all castes.

Interestingly enough, the religious right here in the U.S., you know your U.S. counterparts, also complain of aping, i.e. aping the East. Have you heard of Vikram Gandhi's movie Kumare? Google it and read for yourself to find out what they are objecting to.

Lastly, you have completely missed the point I was trying to make. Don't imprison yourself into narrow parochial consideration, East, West, etc. Among the countries with the most sustained and intense opposition to avarice is U.S. and other countries of the West. They seek common cause with like minded people from everywhere, North, East, West, and South.

 

[sangom]

< snipped >

Lastly, you have completely missed the point I was trying to make. Don't imprison yourself into narrow parochial consideration, East, West, etc. Among the countries with the most sustained and intense opposition to avarice is U.S. and other countries of the West. They seek common cause with like minded people from everywhere, North, East, West, and South.

It is rather surprising to read the portions in bold font. Is it possible to give some evidence for both the statements, since my perception has been that the US especially extols and even encourages its multi-national companies towards avarice as long as it is US which benefits and not any other party.

 

[Nara]

.... there are certain aspects of the west mostly social aspects, for which India is not yet ready, in my view. One such thing is what the NYT report refers to as follows:—

"Indian cities are awash with feral men, untethered from their distant villages,

Dear sangom, this is about mass migration from villages to the cities, and the woes of lonely men in big cities. This is not mindless aping the West. What is continuing to drive this kind of migration is the lack of economic opportunities in villages and even second tier cities. Mega cities are seen as the only hope of eaking out a living -- nothing to do with aping the West. In the West, even small cities have developed enough to sustain the local population economically. India needs to ape this aspect of the West to turn the tide of this mass migration NYT is talking about.

In my view this may take a few more decades. Till then it may be advisable for Indian women to follow the age old practices for safeguarding themselves.

I agree that women should safeguard themselves, but I don't think they should be asked to revert back to retrograde age old practices. They need to device modern solutions in partnership with young men.

There is also the problem of definition, what you may consider as "mindless adoption" may be seen as harmless fun by the youngsters. There is no way to rationally adjudicate this difference of POV. The wise thing to do is to nurture trust with the youngsters and enable them to have fun in a safe way without being judgmental.

 

[Nara]

It is rather surprising to read the portions in bold font. Is it possible to give some evidence for both the statements, since my perception has been that the US especially extols and even encourages its multi-national companies towards avarice as long as it is US which benefits and not any other party.

Well, are you aware that the international labor day aka May Day started as a remembrance of police brutality against striking workers fighting for an eight hour work day.

The Green movement, Occupy Movement, sustained opposition to WTO and other pro-business trade deals, global warming fight, all these are very strong in the West and the U.S. Without the efforts of some of these groups Obama would have long approved the Keystone XL Pipeline, which, if approved, is supposed to be game over.

There is no denying, the oligarchs who run the country, both inside and outside the government, are a formidable force. They have their counterparts all over the world, including, and especially, in India. There is no aping the West or aping the East among them, they are united among themselves to make sure exploitation of both human and natural resources continues unabated. The only way these forces can be slowed down, let alone stopped, is for the common peoples from all countries unite.