இன்று மகா கவி பாரதியாரின் நினைவு தினம் :

[mkrishna100]

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I read it. It makes it just two. English and Tamil. மொழிகள் would require more than two. I am waiting for someone who knows to contribute. Thanks.

In a talk on Bharati Many years back on DD TV , the above poem came for discussion and the speaker ( I do not know his name ) said it is natural for a Tamil Poet to talk about the greatness of Tamil naturally but Bharati knew apart from Tamil , English , Sanskrit , French and couple of other regional languages ( like Telegu and Malayalam ) and in spite of knowing these various languages he considered Tamil as a great language .To what extent his expertise was on these other languages I do not know .

 

[mkrishna100]

A contrary opinion of Subramania Bharati by a DK Person and the above mentioned poem is also referred here .

ஆய்வளார்கள் காட்டும் பாரதி
????? ?????: ????????? ???? ???????????? ???? ??????????? ??????????, ????????? ???????? ????!

 

[vgane]

A contrary opinion of Subramania Bharati by a DK Person and the above mentioned poem is also referred here .

ஆய்வளார்கள் காட்டும் பாரதி
????? ?????: ????????? ???? ???????????? ???? ??????????? ??????????, ????????? ???????? ????!

Dear Krishnaji,

When MGR the Chief Minister of TN wanted to have the centennial celebrations of Mahakavi Bharathiar in 1982, the DMK chief said that what is the need for that...Bharathi is no more relevant..He was seeing Bharathi from the prism of his caste through his colored glass

But MGR went ahead with full force & conducted the Mahakavi Celebrations for one full year & he also introduced Selvi Jayalalitha into Politics in the same year

There are many such contrarian writers who go against the popular opinion..

 

[mkrishna100]

But MGR went ahead with full force & conducted the Mahakavi Celebrations for one full year & he also introduced Selvi Jayalalitha into Politics in the same year

Vgane Sir

I know MGR admired Subramania Bharati a lot and also had a statue of him unveiled in New Delhi . Bharati is looked only as a Brahmin /Aryan poet by DK/DMK elements .

 

[Raji Ram]

I have driven a Maruti: I have driven a Hyundai. Now If I am going to say யாமறிந்த கார்களிலே மாருதிபோல் ஒன்று கண்டிலேன் how true will that statement be? எங்கும் makes it all the more necessary that there should be more languages taken in for consideration.

Dear Sir,

If you know ONLY two cars then your statement 'யாமறிந்த கார்களிலே மாருதிபோல் ஒன்று கண்டிலேன்' is correct since you

KNOW only about two cars! That is what I think.

'inimai' of a language is found just by hearing the language. There is no need to be proficient in the language to find the 'inimai'.

So, I think Bharathi says that of the many languages he has known (ie. heard), Tamil is the sweetest language! :thumb:

BTW, I wrote that Naina sir has good observation because he gave a good explanation for considering two as 'dual' and not 'plural'!

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Sir,

If you know ONLY two cars then your statement 'யாமறிந்த கார்களிலே மாருதிபோல் ஒன்று கண்டிலேன்' is correct since you

KNOW only about two cars! That is what I think.

'inimai' of a language is found just by hearing the language. There is no need to be proficient in the language to find the 'inimai'.

So, I think Bharathi says that of the many languages he has known (ie. heard), Tamil is the sweetest language! :thumb:

BTW, I wrote that Naina sir has good observation because he gave a good explanation for considering two as 'dual' and not 'plural'!

Dear RR madam,

If I know only two languages I should say Tamil is the better one among the two languages that I know. If I know a few languages say 5 then I can say There is no other language that I know which is as good as Tamil. This is what I have been telling. Bharati perhaps knew 5 languages or 4 to say that validly and I leave it at that because I like him as a poet.

Again mere hearing without comprehending the meaning is just nothing and you really heard nothing there. Igt is like the clutter and the signal. Clutter is a disturbance. Being a singer you must be aware that every language can be sweet depending on who sings-it is after all the saptaswaras and their permutations and combinations that makes the music.

I would say Malayalam is sweeter than Tamil if your yardstick is applied. A very pleasant experience of southerly winds is called தென்றல் வீசுகிறது in Tamil using unnecessarily a வல்லின "ற" which is just the opposite of the pleasant and gentle experience of a Thenral that envelopes you with its coolness and fragrance. In Malayalam they have very sensibly,beautifully and thoughtfully made it தென்னல். I would call that as the real sweetness of a language. Just for the sake of argument and looking for some heat and a storm in a teacup here. I love Tamil.

 

[vgane]

I read it. It makes it just two. English and Tamil. மொழிகள் would require more than two. I am waiting for someone who knows to contribute. Thanks.

Bharathiyar knew the following languages:
1. Tamil
2. English
3. Sanskrit
4. Urdu
5. Telugu
6. Malayalam
7. French
8. Bengali
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Quote
Bharati must have stayed in Varanasi for two or three years (from 1898 to 1901?). He had to learn both sanskrit and Hindi in addition to English to pass the Allahabad University entrance examination. Bharati spoke Hindi as fluently as a native speaker, and became conversant in many language later in life, such as French, Bengali, Urdu and the Dravidian languages, Telugu and Malayalam.[/FONT]

Unquote

Reference: : : MAHAKAVI BHARATHIYAR : :

 

[Vaagmi]

Bharathiyar knew the following languages:
1. Tamil
2. English
3. Sanskrit
4. Urdu
5. Telugu
6. Malayalam
7. French
8. Bengali
Quote
Bharati must have stayed in Varanasi for two or three years (from 1898 to 1901?). He had to learn both sanskrit and Hindi in addition to English to pass the Allahabad University entrance examination. Bharati spoke Hindi as fluently as a native speaker, and became conversant in many language later in life, such as French, Bengali, Urdu and the Dravidian languages, Telugu and Malayalam.

Unquote

Reference: : : MAHAKAVI BHARATHIYAR : :

Vgane,

Thanks.

 

[mkrishna100]

Poet Bharatidasan who kept Bharathiar as his Guru also wrote about the greatness of Tamil in his song given below .This song came in a Tamil movie .

இனபத் தமிழ்

தமிழுக்கும் அமுதென்று பேர் - அந்தத்
தமிழ் இன்பத் தமிழ் எங்கள் உயிருக்கு நேர்!
தமிழுக்கு நிலவென்று பேர் - இன்பத்
தமிழ் எங்கள் சமுகத்தின் விளைவுக்கு நீர்!
தமிழுக்கு மணமென்று பேர் - இன்பத்
தமிழ் எங்கள் வாழ்வுக்கு நிருமித்த ஊர்!
தமிழுக்கு மதுவென்று பேர் - இன்பத்
தமிழ் எங்கள் உரிமைச்செம் பயிருக்கு வேர்!

தமிழ் எங்கள் இளமைக்கு பால் - இன்பத்
தமிழ் நல்ல புகழ்மிக்க புலவர்க்கு வேல்!
தமிழ் எங்கள் உயர்வுக்கு வான் - இன்பத்
தமிழ் எங்கள் அசதிக்குச் சுடர்தந்த தேன்!
தமிழ் எங்கள் அறிவுக்குத் தோள் - இன்பத்
தமிழ் எங்கள் கவிதைக்கு வயிரத்தின் வாள்!
தமிழ் எங்கள் பிறவிக்குத் தாய் -இன்பத்
தமிழ் எங்கள் வளமிக்க உளமுற்ற தீ!

Here is the source to all poetic works of Bharathidasan
:: ??????????: ????????? ?????????? ????????

 

[Vaagmi]

Bharatidasan was not an angel that he appears to be from this kavithai. He was antibrahmin and he wrote poetry which was dripping with brahmin hatred. Samples:

உயிர்போன்ற உங்கள்தமிழ் கடவுளுக்கே உவப்பாதல் இல்லை போலும்!
உயிர்போன்ற உங்கள்தமிழ் உரைத்தக்கால் கடவுளதை ஒப்பார் போலும்!
பயிரழிக்கும் விட்டிலெனத் தமிழ்மொழியைப் படுத்தவந்த வடம றைதான்
செயிர்தீர வாழ்த்துதற்கும் தேவையினைச் சொல்லுதற்கும் உதவும் போலும்! 56

மடிகட்டிக் கோயிலிலே மேலுடையை இடுப்பினிலே வரிந்து கட்டிப்
பொடிகட்டி இல்லாது பூசியிரு கைகட்டிப் பார்ப்பா னுக்குப்
படிகட்டித் தமிழரெனப் படிக்கட்டின் கீழ்நின்று தமிழ்மா னத்தை
வடிகட்டி அவன்வடசொல் மண்ணாங்கட் டிக்குவப்பீர் "மந்தரம்" என்றே. 57

காற்செருப்பைப் பிறனொருவன் கழிவிடத்தில் தள்ளிடினும் பொறாத உள்ளம்,
மேற்படுத்தும் எவற்றினுக்கும் மேற்பட்ட தன்மொழியைத் தமிழைத் தீயோர்
போற்றுவதற் குரியதொரு பொதுவினின்று நீக்கிவைத்தால் பொறுப்ப துண்டோ ?
வேற்றுவரின் வடமொழியை வேரறுப்பீர் கோயிலிலே மேவி டாமே. 58

சொற்கோவின் நற்போற்றித் திருஅகவல் செந்தமிழில் இருக்கும் போது
கற்கோயில் உட்புறத்தில் கால்வைத்த தெவ்வாறு சகத்ர நாமம்!
தெற்கோதும் தேவாரம் திருவாய்நன் மொழியான தேனி ருக்கச்
செக்காடும் இரைச்சலென வேதபா ராயணமேன் திருக்கோ யில்பால்? 59

திருப்படியில் நின்றபடி செந்தமிழில் பெரும்படியார் அருளிச் செய்த
உருப்படியை அப்படியே ஊரறியும் படியுரைத்தால் படியும் நெஞ்சில்!
தெருப்படியிற் கழுதையெனச் செல்லும்படி யாகாத வடசொற் கூச்சல்
நெருப்படியை எப்படியோ பொறுத்திடினும் நேர்ந்தபடி பொருள் கண்டீரோ! 60


Love for Tamil is okay. But for some people love for Tamil is equivalent to hatred for Sanskrit and brahmins. Bharatidasan was one such deliquent Tamil poet.

Reading this:

தேர்வரும்பின் பார்ப்பனர்கள் வரிசையுறச் செங்கைகள் கோத்த வண்ணம்,
நீர்வருங்கால் கத்துகின்ற நெடுந்தவளைக் கூட்டமெனக் கூச்ச லிட்டு
நேர்வருவார் அன்னவர்கள் நிகழ்த்துவதன் பொருளென்ன? இனிமை உண்டா?
ஊர்வருந்தும் படிஇதைஏன் விழாத்தலைவர் உடன்சேர்த்தார்? ஒழிக்க வேண்டும்

Here he is talking about the custom of vedaparayanam that follows when the vishnu deity is taken out in the street. He is making fun of that Veda recital with his repulsive example "நீர்வருங்கால் கத்துகின்ற நெடுந்தவளைக் கூட்டமெனக் கூச்ச லிட்டு". He has conveniently ignored the Tamil Divya prabhanda Ghoshti reciting the prabhandam and going ahead of the Deity just to incite passions and sell his hatred opium. This is the quality of our poet. He was a born Mudaliyar and had nothing to say about the panchaman agri labour working in the fields of rich pannayars be,onging to his community.

 

[mkrishna100]

Bharatidasan was not an angel that he appears to be from this kavithai. He was antibrahmin and he wrote poetry which was dripping with brahmin hatred. Samples:

I am aware of Bharatidasan's anti brahmin feelings . But to start with he was not an atheist / anti Brahmin and also wrote the famous song on Mother Godess "Engengum Kaanum Sakthi.." . given below .
Till the end he considered Bharathiar as his Guru . Kannadasan moved from an atheistic /DK poet to a believer in Hindu Dharma and wrote Arthamulla Hindumadam and regretted being part of the DK part at one time .
Whatever may it be , we need to be just take what is essential and ignore the rest .I am not a great reader of poetry in General and Tamil Poetry in particular . There are Certain Poems I like and Bharatidasan's above poem praising Tamil language is one of my favorites and I thought since it came in a Movie ,it must be either written by Kannadasn /Vaali but only later came to know that it was written by Bharathi Dasan .
The other poem of Bharati Dasan that I like is
Sange Muzangu
Sange Muzangu HD Song - YouTube
Valiyor Silar
Bharathidasan - ValiyOr Silar... - YouTube
எங்கெங்கு காணினும் சக்தியடா( this was his first song )


எங்கெங்கு காணினும் சக்தியடா;-தம்பி
ஏழு கடல் அவள் வண்ணமடா!-அங்குத்
தங்கும் வெளியினிற் கோடியண்டம்-அந்த
தாயின் கைப்பந்தென ஓடுமடா-ஒரு
கங்குலில் ஏழு முகிலினமும்-வந்து
கர்ச்சனை செய்வது கண்டதுண்டோஈ?-எனில்
மங்கை நகைத்த ஒலியெனலாம்-அவள்
மந்த நகையங்கு மின்னுதடா!
காளை ஒருவன் கவிச்சுவையைக்-கரை
காண நினைத்த முழு நினைப்பில்-அன்னை
தோளசைத்தங்கு நடம்புரிவாள்-அவன்
தொல்லறிவாளர் திறம் பெறுவான் - ஒரு
வாளைச் சுழற்றும் விசையினிலே-இந்த
வைய முழுவதும் துண்டு செய்வேன் – என
நீள இடையின்றி நீ நினைந்தால் அம்மை
நேர்படுவாள் உன்றன் தோளினிலே!’

 

[sarang]

Disagreement is fine; non belief is fine; dropping out is fine; non association is fine. A few in this forum too echo ஒழிக்க வேண்டும். Why this veri?

ஒழிக்க வேண்டும்

Here he is talking about the custom of vedaparayanam that follows when the vishnu deity is taken out in the street. He is making fun of that Veda recital with his repulsive example "நீர்வருங்கால் கத்துகின்ற நெடுந்தவளைக் கூட்டமெனக் கூச்ச லிட்டு". He has conveniently ignored the Tamil Divya prabhanda Ghoshti reciting the prabhandam and going ahead of the Deity just to incite passions and sell his hatred opium. This is the quality of our poet. He was a born Mudaliyar and had nothing to say about the panchaman agri labour working in the fields of rich pannayars be,onging to his community.

 

[Nara]

உயிர்போன்ற உங்கள்தமிழ் கடவுளுக்கே உவப்பாதல் இல்லை போலும்!
உயிர்போன்ற உங்கள்தமிழ் உரைத்தக்கால் கடவுளதை ஒப்பார் போலும்!
பயிரழிக்கும் விட்டிலெனத் தமிழ்மொழியைப் படுத்தவந்த வடம றைதான்
செயிர்தீர வாழ்த்துதற்கும் தேவையினைச் சொல்லுதற்கும் உதவும் போலும்! 56

மடிகட்டிக் கோயிலிலே மேலுடையை இடுப்பினிலே வரிந்து கட்டிப்
பொடிகட்டி இல்லாது பூசியிரு கைகட்டிப் பார்ப்பா னுக்குப்
படிகட்டித் தமிழரெனப் படிக்கட்டின் கீழ்நின்று தமிழ்மா னத்தை
வடிகட்டி அவன்வடசொல் மண்ணாங்கட் டிக்குவப்பீர் "மந்தரம்" என்றே. 57

காற்செருப்பைப் பிறனொருவன் கழிவிடத்தில் தள்ளிடினும் பொறாத உள்ளம்,
மேற்படுத்தும் எவற்றினுக்கும் மேற்பட்ட தன்மொழியைத் தமிழைத் தீயோர்
போற்றுவதற் குரியதொரு பொதுவினின்று நீக்கிவைத்தால் பொறுப்ப துண்டோ ?
வேற்றுவரின் வடமொழியை வேரறுப்பீர் கோயிலிலே மேவி டாமே. 58

சொற்கோவின் நற்போற்றித் திருஅகவல் செந்தமிழில் இருக்கும் போது
கற்கோயில் உட்புறத்தில் கால்வைத்த தெவ்வாறு சகத்ர நாமம்!
தெற்கோதும் தேவாரம் திருவாய்நன் மொழியான தேனி ருக்கச்
செக்காடும் இரைச்சலென வேதபா ராயணமேன் திருக்கோ யில்பால்? 59

திருப்படியில் நின்றபடி செந்தமிழில் பெரும்படியார் அருளிச் செய்த
உருப்படியை அப்படியே ஊரறியும் படியுரைத்தால் படியும் நெஞ்சில்!
தெருப்படியிற் கழுதையெனச் செல்லும்படி யாகாத வடசொற் கூச்சல்
நெருப்படியை எப்படியோ பொறுத்திடினும் நேர்ந்தபடி பொருள் கண்டீரோ! 60


[...]


தேர்வரும்பின் பார்ப்பனர்கள் வரிசையுறச் செங்கைகள் கோத்த வண்ணம்,
நீர்வருங்கால் கத்துகின்ற நெடுந்தவளைக் கூட்டமெனக் கூச்ச லிட்டு
நேர்வருவார் அன்னவர்கள் நிகழ்த்துவதன் பொருளென்ன? இனிமை உண்டா?
ஊர்வருந்தும் படிஇதைஏன் விழாத்தலைவர் உடன்சேர்த்தார்? ஒழிக்க வேண்டும்

The very fact he took பாரதிதாசன் as his pen name and came to be widely known only by this name and not his own given name shows he did not have personal animosity against any given Brahmin person just because he/she was a Brahmin -- the opposition is to the vile ideology called Brahminism.

 

[Vaagmi]

The very fact he took பாரதிதாசன் as his pen name and came to be widely known only by this name and not his own given name shows he did not have personal animosity against any given Brahmin person just because he/she was a Brahmin -- the opposition is to the vile ideology called Brahminism.

Mr. Kanaka Subbu Raththinam Mudaliyar aka bharatidasan calls brahmins croaking frogs, calls the vedaparayanam the creeking noice of a oil expeller, sanskrit mantras braying of a donkey and finally calls the sanskrit language the pest that came to destroy the Tamil. And you equivocates to say that he was against some exotic brahminism. We all understand where your sympathies lie. But this.............!!!

 

[Raji Ram]

The very fact he took பாரதிதாசன் as his pen name and came to be widely known only by this name and not his own given name shows he did not have personal animosity against any given Brahmin person just because he/she was a Brahmin -- the opposition is to the vile ideology called Brahminism.

'முழு பூசணிக்காயைச் சோற்றில் மறைப்பது' என்பது இதுதானோ, பேராசிரியரே?

 

[Nara]

'முழு பூசணிக்காயைச் சோற்றில் மறைப்பது' என்பது இதுதானோ, பேராசிரியரே?

??!! Come on, let us be real. Tell me exactly what is not correct in what I said. He did declare himself to be a dasan of someone who was born and considered a Brahmin. What sort of a பூசணிக்காய் do you think I am concealing? I am surprised you are also an apologist, are you?

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Prof. Sir,

Cool down please! I don't think Bharathiyar branded himself as a brahmin!

He is the one who wrote:

''காக்கை குருவி எங்கள் ஜாதி - நீள்
கடலும் மலையும் எங்கள் கூட்டம்!''

And

''பார்ப்பானை ஐயரென்ற காலமும் போச்சே - வெள்ளைப்
பரங்கியைத் துரையென்ற காலமும் போச்சே!''

 

[Raji Ram]

All 'born brahmins' do not live like brahmins! In fact I feel embarrassed when mAmAs enter the temples 'topless'

because it is one of the protocols!!

 

[kunjuppu]

All 'born brahmins' do not live like brahmins! In fact I feel embarrassed when mAmAs enter the temples 'topless'

because it is one of the protocols!!

till about 200 years ago, it was 'topless' for both the sexes. then victoria became the queen of england, and empress of india. and victorian code of conduct prevailed over the empire. and raj.

now that we have been independent for 60+ years, we have two choices - either both genders go top covered.....OR... BOTH GO TOPLESS

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Kunjuppu Sir,

Already 'mod girls' are backless. :shocked:

Photo courtesy: Google images.

 

[sarang]

Vile ideology against brahmins will meet its due deserving end as always.This has happened for ages and other religions, nastikas and modern black shirts have gone into oblivion. They all shut up after their filthy throats dry up.

Bharatidasan got his fame, nay, notoriety after his vile outburst. He and his works will be archived in patalaloga and are already rejected.

 

[vgane]

Vile ideology against brahmins will meet its due deserving end as always.This has happened for ages and other religions, nastikas and modern black shirts have gone into oblivion. They all shut up after their filthy throats dry up.

Bharatidasan got his fame, nay, notoriety after his vile outburst. He and his works will be archived in patalaloga and are already rejected.

Bharathidasan's poems can be categorized under 2 categories , before influence of xxx and after influence of xxx

The former are gems while the latter are trash!

 

[sarang]

Men and women were free to choose. Among the queens of Rajaraja chozhan, some covered the top half and some did not (paintings and sculptures). Brahmnins too are depicted in both styles. Even today, in kerala temples all mamas and machchans have to be topless. When the whole crowd is dressed in one way, what is the need for embarrassment?

Long ago I saw a british tv documentary on nudist camps. A middle aged couple with two children (boy and girl) told the presenter that they are very happy, have no inhibitions and generally enjoyed the experience. While the husband and the children were shown in their birthday suits (suitably defocused), the lady refused as her parents and inlaws will be outraged when they watch the programme.

Sita spent twelve months in ashoka vanam wearing a portion of a single cloth (part of it was used to to make a bundle of her ornaments and thrown at sugriva group.

Dear Kunjuppu Sir,

Already 'mod girls' are backless. :shocked:

Photo courtesy: Google images.

 

[Raji Ram]

........ Even today, in kerala temples all mamas and machchans have to be topless. When the whole crowd is dressed in one way, what is the need for embarrassment? .......

Dear Sir,

When I was in college, I visited the temple in Guruvayoor. That day there was a great rush! Many of the mAmAs, with lots of

sweat and 'gabbu', were dashing against me. They were like wet 'uLundhu mAvu' and I tried in vain to avoid the bumps!! That

day, I decided not to visit the temple anymore! But, after 40 years, I went to that temple and had dharshan, joining the veteran's Q.

Gentlemen can't understand this type of embarrassment! :yuck:

 

[sarang]

I do sympathise. You must be inside a security vattam. My wife insists that my job is that!

In Kholapur Mahalakshmi temple, there are separate queues, and no dress restriction. I can do two darshans by the time my wife finishes one. M Q is shorter and moves faster.

Dear Sir,

When I was in college, I visited the temple in Guruvayoor. That day there was a great rush! Many of the mAmAs, with lots of

sweat and 'gabbu', were dashing against me. They were like wet 'uLundhu mAvu' and I tried in vain to avoid the bumps!! That

day, I decided not to visit the temple anymore! But, after 40 years, I went to that temple and had dharshan, joining the veteran's Q.

Gentlemen can't understand this type of embarrassment! :yuck: