ஊர் அறிந்த பிராமணனுக்குப் பூணூல் எதற்கு?

[guruvayurappan]

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Dear Guruji,

Curd is sour..marriage is supposed to be sweet.

So that's why in marriage we have to be like Royal Swans who can separate Milk from Water and only enjoy the sweet essence of milk!!

dearb renukaji !
i also agree marriage is sweet . the marriage is like a process converting milk to curd.the curd is good for digestion like marriage in life.let us not leave the curd become sour without proper use .with good relation (maththu kadayal)make ghee (our santhathi)which is must for making sweets.
both the husband & wife should be like the swan to extract milk & reject water .in married life no use of keeping every thing in mind and free &frank discussion will do wonder. all are not expert in reading others mind or sri Hanuman to reveal what is in his/her heart.
guruvayurappan

 

[guruvayurappan]

dear raju !
not only for oor arintha ellthukkume ,even for things not known/necessary to the town also requires no identification
guruvayurappan

 

[mahakavi]

Dear Sir,

I thought fights between the couples should be like salt in food!!

PS: No :fencing: = No taste!!

You have to know what is the right amount which escapes many. Invariably it is too little (one overwhelms the other) or too much (neither side gives up)

 

[renuka]

Dear all,

I would like to highlight that in my life so far I have never made fun of anyone wearing a Pottu and Thali.

I am fine with others wearing it even though I do not usually wear it.

Everyone in my family circle of both sides always wear their Thali and Pottu.
In fact it took my father a long time to actually accept the fact his daughter does not like to don both.

At times he felt let down I know but over the years he knew that his daughter has a free mind and a free spirit but 100% faith in God.
So my father also finally felt that external symbols DO NOT denote a person internally.

You see most of the while it's always others asking me when they meet me "why aren't you wearing a Thali and Pottu"

I have never asked anyone "why are you wearing Thali and Pottu?"

So you see those of us who think out of the box DO NOT judge others as much but those who think within the confines of their sulci and gyri of their brain always almost 100% JUDGE others.

 

[sarang]

Dress code for parents going to drop kids at schools

Who knows, if kidnapping incidents increase, parents may have to carry ids or mothers wear thali!!!

Blossoms School prohibits parents coming in nightwear to drop their kids. Shashi Kumar D, Director, Blossoms School, said, “Parents dressed in nightwear are not permitted on the school premises. Parents come dressed in pyjamas which is an embarrassment for both the students and the school. ” Though most parents have complied with the diktat, they are left with no other choice. Lakshmana, an ITC employee, said, “The instruction to come dressed appropriately is fair.

Dress code for parents going to drop kids at schools - The New Indian Express​

 

[N.R.Ranganathan]

namaste shrI Lakshminarasimhan.

The problem here is that people who are different in their personal lives are so for their personal reasons and yet try to universalize it, pronouncing vociferously that pUNUl and tAli are not necessary, that they are only external symbols and so on.

Such people wouldn't agree to being selective in their questioning and progressive inquiries, although they have to submit themselves to several kinds of worldly symbols, rituals and other external festivities.

IMO, following a ritual with or without knowing its message or even with or without having full faith in it is better than giving it up. What is worse is people who have given up religious/traditional symbols and rituals jeering at people who follow them to whatever extent and with whatever intent.

If all that the religiously and spiritually progressive people profess are sure ways to sAdhana, then we should see the wisest and most realized among this group than in the other--more, or less traditional--group of Hindus.

If the poonool and thali are not necessary, then why go thru' all the rituals.

 

[mahakavi]

Who knows, if kidnapping incidents increase, parents may have to carry ids or mothers wear thali!!!

Blossoms School prohibits parents coming in nightwear to drop their kids. Shashi Kumar D, Director, Blossoms School, said, “Parents dressed in nightwear are not permitted on the school premises. Parents come dressed in pyjamas which is an embarrassment for both the students and the school. ” Though most parents have complied with the diktat, they are left with no other choice. Lakshmana, an ITC employee, said, “The instruction to come dressed appropriately is fair.

Dress code for parents going to drop kids at schools - The New Indian Express​

In the article link given I see a father (?), a school girl, and sandwiched between them is a little girl (?) or is it a doll(?). If it is a little girl it is atrocious to engage in that practice riding a motorcycle. No helmet on any head. If it is a doll why is a doll being taken to school? Is it allowed for a so-called show-and-tell event?

 

[mahakavi]

If the poonool and thali are not necessary, then why go thru' all the rituals.

Good question. But it is done for show and/or out of compulsion to cope with tradition. Once that compulsion is gone (the ceremony or wedding) after the event, it can be dispensed with, in the opinion of those who discard them.

 

[saidevo]

namaste shrI Raghy and smt.RENukA.

Although I wrote my post #146 offhand--and meant shrI Raghy and smt.RENukA as people "different in their personal lives", I chose my words carefully and reviewd my response a couple of times before I posted it. I meant no offence towards people who seek to be progressive.

Now I need to clarify my stand with regard to the points raised by shrI Raghy and smt.RENukA.

First, shrI RAghy's question in post #149:
Just because couple of members chose to think out side the square, Sri. Lakshminarasimhan chose to call them crazy. The affected members didn't even pay attention initially. Since those words are quoted by you in reply to Sri. Lakshminarasimhan, I like to ask you, please... How come you did not mention to Sri. Lakshminarasimhan that it is not very polite to use words like 'crazy people' when talking about other members? When you are mentioning about a non-existant 'jeering', how come those words found in your own quote missed your attention?

• shrI Raghy, you would appreciate that there is a difference between saying "how crazy you are" and "how crazy people are", which shrI Lakshminarasimhan used in post #125 in response to smt.RENukA's post no.120. It seems to me that LN only spoke about the 'idea' being 'crazy' rather than the 'person', which is also evident from smt.RENukA's grant of a 'like' count to the post. Further LN is a new member and it is only natural that a traditional person like him being surprised/upset by the remarks made in this forum.

• Yes, the proverb in the title of this thread is one that I posted and I expected some discussion about it (and look forward to some others, especially about those that talk about brahmins).

• Raghy, in the OP shrI ShivKC did not clearly state (as he did in a much later post #157) whether his intention was to know the meaning behnd the proverb or the necessity/relevance of a brahmin wearing a pUNUl when no other caste members wear it. Further he mentioned, "dont take me wrong.. just being curious here." Therefore there was nothing to object about the OP.

• I have indeed replied to the OP in post #11, trying to match the OP in tone and tenor. I also appreciate that you have given the meaning behind the proverb in post #25.

• You have reiterated: "Poonool and thali are external symbols. I said that before; I will say that again too." I respect this sentiment of yours, but when you seek--as you did in your post #126--to 'colorize' it that this is the real world of today, that there is no pretence, and that this world of yours is "different from the world where people pretend to be very nice persons",

should I not be allowed to think that you are making sweeping statements which seek to universalize your perception as the only real and correct one and all other traditional/religious perceptions and practices as mere mockery? This is where the jeering comes in, if you please.

I am one of the persons to take part in this thread. I did ask this question - 'Upanayanam' is 'taking one closer'. My question was, 'Is it necessasary for someone to go through 'upanayanam' and poonool to be guided closer? Can you kindly tell me, can someone be 'taken closer' with out poonool? I would much appreciate your answer.

• Sathya Sai Baba gave the explanation that upa-nayanam means 'an additional eye', which is the third eye that opens with brahmopadesham. However, as you have rightly observed, the common explanation of upanayanam as 'taking one closer' is the traditional one.

• Your question "Can you kindly tell me, can someone be 'taken closer' with out poonool?" can be redirected to you as: Can you kindly tell me, can someone NOT be 'taken closer' with poonool?' So, IMO, the right perception which can be both progressive and honest is: that the pUNUl ceremony is one of the sAdhanas--means, to take a man closer to the truth, and that there could be other means too, depending on the people's levels of mind.

• Brahmins who wear and believe in the efficacy of pUNUl as a means to their sAdhana don't say in general that it is the only means that take you closer to the truth; whereas brahmins who have given up their belief in it, usually seek to decry the practice rather than specify a certain alternative means.

smt.RENukA, this is with reference to post #154:

• Knowing your spiritual capabilities from your posts in this forum, I never for a moment considered yourself as one who would ask another person, 'why do you wear your pottu and thAli (or pUNUl for that matter)?'

• But you would understand that it is natural for people to ask you about not wearing these religious symbols. Yes, I think within the confines of the Hindu religious, spiritual and philosophical box, but as far as I am concerned I am careful not to JUDGE those who think outside the box. I do however take exception when progressive people mean to say that only their world is all hunky dorry and the traditionally religious world is all humbug.

 

[mahakavi]

aiyO! adhu, edhiril varuvOraip piRANdi vidumE!! :heh:

kai vilangu irundAlum pirANDa muDiyum. pirANDuvadarkku viralgaL pOdumE:hurt:
Oor aRinda paittiyam appaDi seyyAdu. Oorukkut teriyumE adan naDai uDai bhAvanaigaL
The saying "pAyaic curaNDum paittiyam" is obsolete.
Seriously many so-called paittiyams are pathetic cases due to chemical imbalance in the brain. They have to be pitied and treated compassionately rather than ridiculed or tortured. The handcuffs or leg chains are cruel and unusual punishment for anybody except hardcore criminals.

 

[Raghy]

Sri. Saidevo, Greetings.

I refer to your message in post #159. Thanks for you kind words.

......You have reiterated: "Poonool and thali are external symbols. I said that before; I will say that again too." I respect this sentiment of yours, but when you seek--as you did in your post #126--to 'colorize' it that this is the real world of today, that there is no pretence, and that this world of yours is "different from the world where people pretend to be very nice persons",

should I not be allowed to think that you are making sweeping statements which seek to universalize your perception as the only real and correct one and all other traditional/religious perceptions and practices as mere mockery? This is where the jeering comes in, if you please.

While welcoming Sri. Lakshminarasimhan, Sowbagyavathy VR said 'Welcome to a different world; welcome to this forum'. I had that message in my mind. I meant the whole forum is different. I added all the members of this forum in that message. The whole forum is a different world, no pretence here. While there is no pretence from me, there is no pretence from yourself either, which holds good for all the members. Anyway, I meant the whole forum. I also took Sri.LN's comment in a lighter vein and posted a 'kuththu song' to welcome him. If you felt any jeering from that, all I can say is, none was meant.

Your question "Can you kindly tell me, can someone be 'taken closer' with out poonool?" can be redirected to you as: Can you kindly tell me, can someone NOT be 'taken closer' with poonool?' So, IMO, the right perception which can be both progressive and honest is: that the pUNUl ceremony is one of the sAdhanas--means, to take a man closer to the truth, and that there could be other means too, depending on the people's levels of mind.

I love this reply. Thank you very much for such a sweet reply. Your reply is short, sweet and to the point.

Brahmins who wear and believe in the efficacy of pUNUl as a means to their sAdhana don't say in general that it is the only means that take you closer to the truth; whereas brahmins who have given up their belief in it, usually seek to decry the practice rather than specify a certain alternative means.

Personally I got into fist fight to protect someone else's right to wear his poonool in peace. I may ask the importance of wearing a poonool; but, I did not ask anyone to discard their poonool. That quoted comment doesn't apply to me. I like to return that to you, please.

Cheers!

 

[sarang]

Overcrowding and overloading is quite common in personal two wheelers, school autos and school buses. It will be quite expensive to reach children to school otherwise. There are occasional accidents (and with non crowded vehicles too).

Wearing of helmets is compulsory by law, and reiterated every time there is a 2 wheeler accident. I personally prefer, wearing of seat belt and helmet must be left to the individual's choice; but social and family pressure may be applied to conform. It is very inconvenient to wear helmet in the hot weather, the man becomes deaf. one has to drive taking feed back from all sense organs as road rules are for the few sticklers.

A few months ago the car caught fire and the driver could not free himself because of seat belt despite help from others. He died after a few days in a hospital. I had referred to this earlier in this forum.

In the article link given I see a father (?), a school girl, and sandwiched between them is a little girl (?) or is it a doll(?). If it is a little girl it is atrocious to engage in that practice riding a motorcycle. No helmet on any head. If it is a doll why is a doll being taken to school? Is it allowed for a so-called show-and-tell event?

 

[sarang]

Brilliant. Can be applied for anything and everything.

This incident during travel in pallavan express from chennai to trichy.

A mod girl in jeans and short tops was friendly with everyone, listened to music and generally looked like an nri. But she completely changed and got into a burka when the train was near trichy; she alighted as a devout muslim with her face hidden.

Those who have no respect or do not value can do away with such. Gain or loss will be known only in the future.

Good question. But it is done for show and/or out of compulsion to cope with tradition. Once that compulsion is gone (the ceremony or wedding) after the event, it can be dispensed with, in the opinion of those who discard them.

 

[Raji Ram]

ஒரு ரயில் பயணத்தின்போது, வழி நெடுக, குறிப்பிட்ட நேரங்களில் பிரார்த்தனை செய்த இளைஞனை

மெச்சிய ஒரு பிராமணரின் நெற்றியில், விபூதி இல்லை! ஹிந்துக்களின் மகிமையே இதுதான்.

மற்ற மதத்தினர் அவர்களின் விதிப்படிச் சென்றால் மெச்சுவார்கள்; பெருந்தன்மை!

தங்கள் மதத்தின் விதிகளை மீறத் தயங்கவே மாட்டார்கள்; மத சுதந்திரம்! :high5:

 

[mahakavi]

ஒரு ரயில் பயணத்தின்போது, வழி நெடுக, குறிப்பிட்ட நேரங்களில் பிரார்த்தனை செய்த இளைஞனை

மெச்சிய ஒரு பிராமணரின் நெற்றியில், விபூதி இல்லை! ஹிந்துக்களின் மகிமையே இதுதான்.

மற்ற மதத்தினர் அவர்களின் விதிப்படிச் சென்றால் மெச்சுவார்கள்; பெருந்தன்மை!

தங்கள் மதத்தின் விதிகளை மீறத் தயங்கவே மாட்டார்கள்; மத சுதந்திரம்! :high5:

A truly devout person does not have to wear his religion on his sleeve ( er, I mean forehead). They may have avoided it for fear of being attacked by the intolerant "rationalists" if they spot them. The devout youth ( of the protected religion) who does the prayer anywhere at anytime is not under attack. The rationalists will come to his aid if he is attacked. So there you go....

 

[Raji Ram]

A truly devout person does not have to wear his religion on his sleeve ( er, I mean forehead). They may have avoided it for fear of being attacked by the intolerant "rationalists" if they spot them. ..........

Oh! Is it so?

Then should we say 'I am NOT happy to be a Hindu?' out:

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Sri. Mahakavi,

I forgot to mention that the train journey was in India - From SingArach Chennai to Ernakulam!!

 

[mahakavi]

Oh! Is it so?

Then should we say 'I am NOT happy to be a Hindu?' out:

No, you don't declare to the world that you are a brahmin. A cheTTiAr or piLLai wearing vibUudi on his forehead is not in danger of being attacked compared to a brahmin in a similar situation. It is easy to spot a brahmin right away. Why invite trouble? Keep your religious identity at home or at the temple where there is some semblance of protection.

 

[mahakavi]

Dear Sri. Mahakavi,

I forgot to mention that the train journey was in India - From SingArach Chennai to Ernakulam!!

I understood it was in India, especially the anti-brahmin capital of India (singAram or not). Perhaps our friend in question would have applied vibhUdi to his forehead after the train crossed Coimbatore into PAlakkADu/trichur area. No problem there in being identified as brahmin, I suppose.

 

[renuka]

smt.RENukA, this is with reference to post #154:

• Knowing your spiritual capabilities from your posts in this forum, I never for a moment considered yourself as one who would ask another person, 'why do you wear your pottu and thAli (or pUNUl for that matter)?'

• But you would understand that it is natural for people to ask you about not wearing these religious symbols. Yes, I think within the confines of the Hindu religious, spiritual and philosophical box, but as far as I am concerned I am careful not to JUDGE those who think outside the box. I do however take exception when progressive people mean to say that only their world is all hunky dorry and the traditionally religious world is all humbug.

Dear Saidevo ji,

All the while in forum I have never questioned any tradition followed by Tamil Brahmins becos I do not have much exposure to TB lifestyle.
So you must have noticed that in this whole thread I have only been giving opinions on Thali and Pottu cos that a common factor with everyone.

I understand what you are trying to convey..I knew you were not specifically targeting anyone in your comments.

Actually I did click Like for the comment about "How crazy people can be" becos I thought it was funny.

But yesterday I wrote about how I am judged by others I was not talking about you.
I meant all those ladies out here in M'sia who never leave my alone just becos I do not wear Thali and Pottu.
That's why I nickname those ladies Thaliban since they are always launching a series of attack questions to me.

I really never meant you at any point.

I was just explaining the situation I face on regular basis and wanted members to know that even though I do not follow culture too much I still do not judge others who follow culture.

I am a very open minded person who live and let lives.

Regards
Renu

 

[renuka]

This incident during travel in pallavan express from chennai to trichy.

A mod girl in jeans and short tops was friendly with everyone, listened to music and generally looked like an nri. But she completely changed and got into a burka when the train was near trichy; she alighted as a devout muslim with her face hidden.

Those who have no respect or do not value can do away with such. Gain or loss will be known only in the future.

Dear sarang ji,

I will give you another example...when I was in college...we had a real traditional friend would never be seen without pottu and vibuthi on her head.

When our college was closed becos of the Babri Masjid problem there were some unwanted incidents in South Canara and even train I was travelling once was derailed but was realized on time by the driver and he stopped in time.

Some trains were also attacked by some individuals who would target Hindus.

So when we were going back home to Malaysia via train from Mangalore to Chennai(those days we have no direct flight to Blore Msia so we had to go through Chennai to take a flight home).

Ok the traditional friend was going back to Chennai and we were surprised to see her without Pottu and Vibuthi.
She told us that she was afraid that she would be attacked if people knew she was Hindu and she said she would lie that she is a Christian if at all she was attacked hence she was NOT wearing Pottu and Vibuthi for the day.

She was telling us to remove the Aum symbol we wore so that no one will know our religion.
The rest of us didn't want to act like a Christian and so I didn't remove my AUM.
I told her that I leave it to God to protect us from any attacks but do not want to act like a person from another religion just to escape attacks cos thats just being a coward.

 

[sarang]

That is 'aapath sanyasam', easy to give up later. No papam attached.

Dear sarang ji,

I will give you another example...when I was in college...we had a real traditional friend would never be seen without pottu and vibuthi on her head.

When our college was closed becos of the Babri Masjid problem there were some unwanted incidents in South Canara and even train I was travelling once was derailed but was realized on time by the driver and he stopped in time.

Some trains were also attacked by some individuals who would target Hindus.

So when we were going back home to Malaysia via train from Mangalore to Chennai(those days we have no direct flight to Blore Msia so we had to go through Chennai to take a flight home).

Ok the traditional friend was going back to Chennai and we were surprised to see her without Pottu and Vibuthi.
She told us that she was afraid that she would be attacked if people knew she was Hindu and she said she would lie that she is a Christian if at all she was attacked hence she was NOT wearing Pottu and Vibuthi for the day.

She was telling us to remove the Aum symbol we wore so that no one will know our religion.
The rest of us didn't want to act like a Christian and so I didn't remove my AUM.
I told her that I leave it to God to protect us from any attacks but do not want to act like a person from another religion just to escape attacks cos thats just being a coward.

 

[ozone]

1. OOr arintha brahmananukku poonool thevai illai. So he can dispense with it.

2. Oor arintha manaivikku thaali thevai illai. She can dispense with the thali.

3. Oor arintha pichchaikkaranukku azhukku thuni thevai illai. He can dispense with it.

4. Oor arintha katchikku kodi thevai illai.

5. oor arintha arasanukku kireetam thevai illai.

6. oor arintha sanyasikku kaavi thevai illai. He can become a Nithyananda.

7. oor arintha kaathalukku thirumanam thevai illai. They can just live together.

8. oor arintha paiththiyaththukku vilangu thevai illai.

oor arintha ellaththukkume onrum thevai illai.

Sir, the Yagnopavitha dharana mantra does not say the Yagnopavitham is for proclaiming your identity as a Brahmin to others. I am surprised you also fall with the rest in believing this is the case.

 

[ozone]

I am a very open minded person who live and let lives.

Open minds usually accommodate and respect sentiments and traditions, even if they conclusively know that the benefits may be debate-able.
Some of those who call themselves open minded are actually more closed and never give in to explanations and dont have a 'there is nothing wrong with it' approach.

 

[renuka]

Open minds usually accommodate and respect sentiments and traditions, even if they conclusively know that the benefits may be debate-able.
Some of those who call themselves open minded are actually more closed and never give in to explanations and dont have a 'there is nothing wrong with it' approach.

Dear Ozone,

You can count me out of this..I totally do not fit into the profile you have described.
I respect traditions and culture but I have my own way of leading my life and I do not impose my lifestyle on others and neither do I judge others.
I do not follow tradition or religion for Benefit.

It is always a problem with others who can't seem to be able to digest the fact that some people would want to lead life differently without attaching too much importance to outward appearance.

I have met many Swamijis and Monks in my life who have spoken to me lovingly and NOT even one had ever asked me "why I do not wear my Thali or Pottu"

So I hope you do not misunderstand it more.

Just to add..recently someone asked me to run a Bal Vikas class for some kids nearby my clinic and the person told me that would be good for your practice too cos the devotees will come to your clinic.

I told the person if I want to teach kids Bal Vikas I would want to do it purely as a teacher and not for the benefit of my clinical practice.
I do not want to kill two birds with one stone.

So you see some of us are NOT BENEFIT driven in life.I hope its clear now to you that some people are totally different in their mindset.