விளையாட இது நேரமா முருகா

[sangom]

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From what you have written I am not sure whether you are referring to Gopalakrishna BharathiyAr's compostion Nandanar songs of Gopalakrishnabharati

உனது திருவடி நம்பிவந்தேன் எனக் கொருவருமில்லைநா னேழை [உனது]

Gopalakrishna BharathiyAr is certainly a great composer - TN Bala may not come close. In fifty years, only great compositions may survive.

Each listener is to his or her own. If you do not want to listen that is your free will. If you want to criticise again that is your free will. If you think that only the outstanding should compose that is your free will.

There are others who encourage/nurture composers/singers. Again that is their free will.


Tastes are indivualistic. For example here is a person Vilaiyada Idu Nerama | Music To My Ears who likes this music (she calls lyrics of this song (song under discussion) beautiful lyrics) . Paragraph before the last paragraph (in the link) is very appealing to me.

One may also see a number of rasika's opinion here (including exchanges involving Maharajapuram Santhanam and TNB)

The reason I gave this link (in my earlier post 22 ) is to give a chance to listen to a composer (not my intention is to change any one's opinion) sharing his perspective.

.

Moorthy
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Dear Shri Moorthy,

The song I referred to, திருவடி சரணமென்றிங்கு நான் நம்பிவந்தேன், is also by Gopalakrishna Bharati, imo, but I am not very sure. It is not the one you have referred to. Here is a link, however.

http://mio.to/album/10-Classical_Carnatic_Vocal/242330-Thiruvadi_Charanam_-_Live/#/album/10-Classical_Carnatic_Vocal/242330-Thiruvadi_Charanam_-_Live/

I can understand people trying to nurture or encourage singers. But do we need to "encourage or nurture" composers? That willl only clutter the music scene with below-the- average compositions. In any case, my limited objective is to give my honest opinion, irrespective of how high and mighty the composer may be.

 

[Raji Ram]

Smt. Aruna Sairam-Thiruvadi saranam-kambhoji

The lyrics of this song is HERE

 

[9868836164]

Dear Sir,

This the composition of Gopalakrishna Bharati.

 

[Raji Ram]

....... This the composition of Gopalakrishna Bharati.

I am sure 'this' means the song திருவடி சரணமென்றிங்கு நான் நம்பிவந்தேன்.

I have posted the link for the lyrics and the composer's name is also given in that page.

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Shri Moorthy,

The song I referred to, திருவடி சரணமென்றிங்கு நான் நம்பிவந்தேன், is also by Gopalakrishna Bharati, imo, but I am not very sure. It is not the one you have referred to. Here is a link, however.

http://mio.to/album/10-Classical_Carnatic_Vocal/242330-Thiruvadi_Charanam_-_Live/#/album/10-Classical_Carnatic_Vocal/242330-Thiruvadi_Charanam_-_Live/

I can understand people trying to nurture or encourage singers. But do we need to "encourage or nurture" composers? That willl only clutter the music scene with below-the- average compositions. In any case, my limited objective is to give my honest opinion, irrespective of how high and mighty the composer may be.

Music involves these stages:

1) A poet writes the lyric.

2) A composer sets it to a raga.

3) A singer sings it embellishing the raga according to his manodharmam enhancing the beauty of the lyric in the process-which is also called the bhava/theme/life of the song.

4) The audience understands and follows the singer as well as the poet and composer's efforts. Audience follows the singer's efforts (his communication/conversation) and enjoys the song.

Usually when 1,2 and 3 above happens to be the work a single individual the result can be a master piece or a "also ran" category song. However hard the singer tries he/she can not reach it to the audience. Lyric writing should be left to poet. The poet, if writing in Tamil usually chooses a theme, decides on the accompanying mood to be conveyed and then writes down the lyric. Depending on the theme and mood to be conveyed, the consonants used are just nasal or neutral or guttural or plosives. Vowels used are long or short. Periods are frequent or rare. When a good poet sits down and writes a lyric applying all his skills it becomes a beautiful kavithai. Then the composer takes over and decides the raga in which to set it. The poet and composer interacts if they are contemporaries and finer adjustments are made to the piece. If they are not contemporaries, the composer uses his best judgment without robbing the piece of its lyrical beauty. A composer with a keen sense of music and beauty of lyric can make the song a memorable piece in a demanding raga. I am writing all this keeping in mind the karnatak sangeeth kritis which are sung in kutcheris.

What Sangom has pointed out is the case of a bad lyricist job done by a perhaps good composer. Every good composer need not be a good lyricist. I agree with Sangom in this particular case that it is a bad job done.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Vaagmi Sir,

I beg to differ with your views. Carnatic musicians seldom bother about lyrics. Sorry to say this. I have heard that, when a leading

carnatic singer (clue: Guruvayoorappa bhakthA) was asked why he doesn't care to sing correct Telugu, while rendering Thyagaraja

krithis, he replied that lyrics of the song is just like a hanger of a nice shirt and the manOdhamA only makes the song appear

like a grand shirt! I am happy that at least some young artists give importance to the lyrics and try to sing with bhAvam.

Do you agree that the only composition of Sri. Rajaji has become like our national anthem ONLY because of the mesmerizing tune
and because Smt. M S S sang it first? :first:

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Vaagmi Sir,

I beg to differ with your views. Carnatic musicians seldom bother about lyrics. Sorry to say this. I have heard that, when a leading

carnatic singer (clue: Guruvayoorappa bhakthA) was asked why he doesn't care to sing correct Telugu, while rendering Thyagaraja

krithis, he replied that lyrics of the song is just like a hanger of a nice shirt and the manOdhamA only makes the song appear

like a grand shirt! I am happy that at least some young artists give importance to the lyrics and try to sing with bhAvam.

Do you agree that the only composition of Sri. Rajaji has become like our national anthem ONLY because of the mesmerizing tune
and because Smt. M S S sang it first? :first:

Dear RR,

What I said was the principles. Many people do not follow these. But principles can not be changed or given a go by for that reason. If an artist does not bother about the lyrics it means his analysing the raga, exploring it etc., are all just playing with meta-data. In other words, he is just tinkering with the template in a crude way. The kutcheri may come to an end without his ever achieving anything in music. If you ask an Andhraite telugu he would swear that Thyagaraja's telugu itself is a corrupt form. I have heard this being said by learned Telugu poets. Perhaps Thyagaraja being an aravadu telugu brahmin, sang in the Telugu he knew. I do not mean any disrespect to Thyagaraja by this. I respect him for his fine kritis and his bhakti. His Telugu was also Telugu. That is enough for me to make him my hero. Any way I do not know the phonetically and grammatically correct Telugu because I am just a Tamil Brahmin.

If a singer is sincere to music, he should first try to understand the language in which he sings, its nuances and pronunciations etc before he goes ahead with his kutcheri. In Urdu there is a word "Gham". It is used in the song this way in the hindi film Pyaasaa by Gurudutt--"gham se ab ghabrAna kaisA gham sou bAr milA" meaning - why should I be scared of suffering now while suffering I have gone through a hundred times. The word gham is pronounced in a particular way in Urdu which can not be explained here in writing. It is a phonetic specialty. If a singer comes on the stage and sings "gam se ab ghabrana........." it sounds horrible to the discerning listener who knows the language. But people do sing it that way and get applauded because they stick to the music and the raga meticulously. This is exactly what happens in karnatik kutcheris too.

Two things happen when a singer sings a kriti without understanding the language and its nuances. One is it disturbs a knowledgeable listener. Two the bhava is mutilated. We do come across such kutcheris in Chennai during music season.

I think Rajaji's "குறையொன்றும் இல்லை மறை மூர்த்தி கண்ணா..." is a beautiful piece of art. It became that because of the lyricist who gave it the divine content in a living language, the tune to which it was set and the great singer who sang it. I would say it was the outcome of a joint effort. All of them MS, Rajaji and whoever set the raga(MS?) were contemporaries and had that advantage to fine tune that piece by iteration. It is a lovely piece. It is sung in every brahmin marriage and it conveys a message too to the listener. I like it. Thanks.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Vaagmi Sir,

If the carnatic singers should be to your expectation, there can't be so many leading singers! The 'manOdharmam' of the artist makes

him / her successful, imho. Not all the leading artists pay attention to the lyrics. You wrote

Any way I do not know the phonetically and grammatically correct Telugu because I am just a Tamil Brahmin.

This is exactly my point. Without knowing the meaning of the songs (including a few Tamil songs!) the artist makes a successful

cutchEri. The pity in Sing. Chennai sabhas is that the volume is kept so high that I have to take cotton ear plugs to reduce the volume.

Sometimes I used to think, 'Are Sing. Chennai rasikAs partially deaf?'

Now coming back to the point, have you ever thought how the Carnatic instrumentalists are successful? Without hearing the lyrics,
we are able to enjoy the music! So, the best way to be a carnatic rasikA is to forget about the lyrics and listen to the music content!! :decision:

FYI, Sri. Rajaji's song is tuned by Sri. 'Kadayanallur' Venkatraman. :clap2:

 

[Raji Ram]

This is for Vaagami Sir.

Dr L. Subramaniam - Live at the Royal Albert Hall 2006

 

[Vaagmi]

have you ever thought how the Carnatic instrumentalists are successful? Without hearing the lyrics,
we are able to enjoy the music! So, the best way to be a carnatic rasikA is to forget about the lyrics and [COLOR=#DA7911 !important]listen to the music

content!!

:decision:

[/COLOR]The instrument plays a number which is basically a lyric as far as karnatik sangeeth is concerned. With Western music it may be a different story.

We have our preferences. That is why we choose which kutcheri we should attend during the season and they are just a few.

I believe that there is no music without lyric. This, though I understand and follow the way the ragas are explored and presented. May be I am made that way. When I go to a kutcheri I do not speak. I close my eyes until the kutcheri is over. And do not speak about the kutcheri to any one at least for an hour. Perhaps I am a strange animal.

FYI, Sri. Rajaji's song is tuned by Sri. 'Kadayanallur' Venkatraman.

Thank you for that piece of info.

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Vaagmi Sir,

I wish all the rasikAs were like you! But some female artists dress up so well (sometimes spends some bucks in parlours!)

only to be noticed well, which many mAmis I know do, including keeping a track of the sarees and jewellry they wear! :spy:

Yes, Sir! Instrumentalists play the lyrics when they render the song but most of the instrumentalists do not learn the complete

lyrics of the song they render but stick to the tune they have heard. For example, the longer notes at improper places sound like

கதறி மனமுருகி நான் அழைக்காவோ! (ஸ'ரீ'ப'கா' is replaced byஸ'ரி'பா'கா'​) The only artist who pays keen attention even to the

'mey ezhuththu' is Sri. Ravikiran. He has quick pauses (control with the second meettifying finger) to get them! It is amazing.

In violin Lalagudi's school is excellent in rendering correct lyrics. :thumb:

 

[Raji Ram]

I want to share my experience at Thirukadavur temple, when we went to attend the 70th birthday of Ram's cousin,

which I have written already in Literature section, in one of the threads. Here it is:

"மறந்து விட்டேனே! ஆஸ்தான நாதஸ்வர வித்வானை!
சிறந்த அறிவாளிகளே கண்டுபிடிக்கலாம், அவர் பாட்டை!

ஸ்வரங்களை வைத்துப் பாடலை அறியவே முடியாது;
ஸ்வரங்களின் நீளத்தால் மட்டுமே அறிய முடியும்!

பேப் பே - பெ பெப்பே பேபெப்பே என்று கேட்டால், அது
பாக்யாத லக்ஷ்மி பாரம்மா என்ற பாடலாகும்.

பேபே - பெபெப்பே பே - பே பே - பெ என்று கேட்டால், அது
சபாபதிக்கு வேறு தெய்வம் என்ற பாடலாகும்!

இந்த இசை முன்னே செல்லப் பின் தொடர்ந்தோம்,
எந்த ராகமும் புரியாமல், பாடலைக் கண்டுபிடித்தபடி!"

 

[Anand Manohar]

Dear PSN Ji

One of the posts in this thread made me laugh out. Some people don't have to 'make an effort' to be annoying
- especially if they happen to be " all-knowing and self-proclaimed septuagenarian agnostics ".

They are by nature, that way - so please take it easy.

Yay Yem

 

[Vaagmi]

Dear Vaagmi Sir,

I wish all the rasikAs were like you! But some female artists dress up so well (sometimes spends some bucks in parlours!)only to be noticed well, which many mAmis I know do, including keeping a track of the sarees and jewellry they wear!

I too take note of them. But once the singing starts I tune myself to the new frequency.

For example, the longer notes at improper places sound like
கதறி மனமுருகி நான் அழைக்காவோ! (ஸ'ரீ'ப'கா' is replaced byஸ'ரி'பா'கா'​) The only artist who pays keen attention even to the
'mey ezhuththu' is Sri. Ravikiran. He has quick pauses (control with the second meettifying finger) to get them! It is amazing. In violin Lalagudi's school is excellent in rendering correct lyrics.

You are 100% right.

 

[Vaagmi]

I want to share my experience at Thirukadavur temple, when we went to attend the 70th birthday of Ram's cousin,

which I have written already in Literature section, in one of the threads. Here it is:

"மறந்து விட்டேனே! ஆஸ்தான நாதஸ்வர வித்வானை!
சிறந்த அறிவாளிகளே கண்டுபிடிக்கலாம், அவர் பாட்டை!

ஸ்வரங்களை வைத்துப் பாடலை அறியவே முடியாது;
ஸ்வரங்களின் நீளத்தால் மட்டுமே அறிய முடியும்!

பேப் பே - பெ பெப்பே பேபெப்பே என்று கேட்டால், அது
பாக்யாத லக்ஷ்மி பாரம்மா என்ற பாடலாகும்.

பேபே - பெபெப்பே பே - பே பே - பெ என்று கேட்டால், அது
சபாபதிக்கு வேறு தெய்வம் என்ற பாடலாகும்!

இந்த இசை முன்னே செல்லப் பின் தொடர்ந்தோம்,
எந்த ராகமும் புரியாமல், பாடலைக் கண்டுபிடித்தபடி!"

To be fair to the Nadaswara Vidwans, Nadaswaram is an instrument in which it is difficult to define each swara precisely as you play a song on it.

 

[Raji Ram]

To be fair to the Nadaswara Vidwans, Nadaswaram is an instrument in which it is difficult to define each swara precisely as you play a song on it.

But this vidwan played nothing near that rAgam and hence we had to struggle with the length of swarams and guess the song!

 

[Raji Ram]

I can enjoy this song without knowing the lyrics!

Ravi Kiran-Chithra Veenai