• Welcome to Tamil Brahmins forums.

    You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our Free Brahmin Community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

    If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

A layman reads Rig Veda

Status
Not open for further replies.
QUOTE=renuka;247851 Dear Ms. Renuka,

For example the story of Ashtavakra where he has 8 bends in his body..could have been some genetic disorder or the skeletal frame.

This actually not happened due to any genetic thing...The rishi's mother is the reason for it.."ASHTA VAGRAHA" when we was in the womb, due to the wrong utterances of Mantra..this happened

Then we have the story of Jada Bharata who did not talk and was slow and inert ..it could have been Aspergers Syndrome for all we know. ---

Jada Bharata was a rishi in his previous birth. Since he became grieved by thinking about the deer and was silently crying when died , he became jada bharatha...synonymous with "Brahma Nilai"..that is he never wanted to get attached to anything ..that's why he was called JADA BHARATHA means who never reacts to anything happening in the outside world
 
QUOTE=renuka;247851 Dear Ms. Renuka,

For example the story of Ashtavakra where he has 8 bends in his body..could have been some genetic disorder or the skeletal frame.

This actually not happened due to any genetic thing...The rishi's mother is the reason for it.."ASHTA VAGRAHA" when we was in the womb, due to the wrong utterances of Mantra..this happened

Then we have the story of Jada Bharata who did not talk and was slow and inert ..it could have been Aspergers Syndrome for all we know. ---

Jada Bharata was a rishi in his previous birth. Since he became grieved by thinking about the deer and was silently crying when died , he became jada bharatha...synonymous with "Brahma Nilai"..that is he never wanted to get attached to anything ..that's why he was called JADA BHARATHA means who never reacts to anything happening in the outside world


Dear Sir,

I have read both stories ..I was just giving a probable genetic cause of both cases that got misdiagnosed and some story spun around it.

Just like in the past Dyslexia was not diagnosed and they were considered Low IQ but in reality they dont have Low IQ.

For all you know even Kalidasa could have been dyslexic and everyone thought he was stupid and finally he managed to get over his reading difficulty with blessings from God.
 
Last edited:
What actually you mean by symbolism Sir?...is it about simile for some other to be described or having two different meanings for one verse itself
Rig Veda is full of symbolism. Here cow does not mean the four footed animal we are all familiar with. But in many contexts it means the rays of light and in some contexts, it means the divine grace.
There are many such things. To have a full understanding, please read The secret of the vedas by Aurobindo, available in the internet.
 
Sraddha and Rituals
I do not find a word in English conveying the full significance of the Sanskrit word Sraddha. Earnestness, faith, seriousness, sincerity, perfection- Sraddha means all these and something more.
RV has a suktam on sraddha (10.151) where the quality of sraddha is eulogized.
Let us analyse what we mean by sraddha in our ordinary usage. Imagine yourself as a student who studies with sraddha.
1 When you start some work, be clear to yourself about the goal to be achieved. Why I am doing it? What is my goal?
2 Then you plan as to how to do it. As a part of this, you enquire with the experienced people and gather knowledge.
3 Take the guidance of one on whom you have full faith. This faith should be lasting and should not give way to suspicions and doubts. While half way through the work one should not have doubts whether the road I am following is correct or not. Faith is the core of sraddha. Hence ancient commentators like Sri Sankaracharya translate sraddha as faith. But sraddha has something more.
4 Make all efforts to reach your goal as instructed by your mentor. No small part of it should be ignored.
5 All activities which can spoil your purpose, however small, should be scrupulously avoided.
6 If you come across any obstacle, do not lose heart but continue to strive towards the goal.
The student studying with sraddha has 100 percent as his goal. He plans his studies. What to study, when etc. He takes the guidance of his teacher or parent and obeys them fully in this. He does all do’s and avoids all don’ts. At a given time, he concentrates on one work only and does not allow his attention to be scattered. He is not discouraged by the obstacles and bravely faces them. Such a student is sure to win and if, by chance, he fails, he analyses himself, finds the causes of his failure and tries once again with doubled vigour.
Such sraddha is essential not only for the students but also for all to achieve in life. One who works without sraddha will be doomed.
Now let us see what RV tells us about sraddha. Sraddha has been made a goddess in RV, which says that kindling fire and offering oblations should be done with sraddha. Sraddha bestows wealth on the performer. While giving alms to others, do it with sraddha. Even devas observe sraddha while dealing with those above them.
How to get that sraddha? RV says, meditate on the goddess sraddha devi to get sraddha. (This reminds us of the saying of Manickavacakar that one requires divine grace to attain divine grace.) It means that by performing small acts with sraddha, one can get sraddha for performing great acts.
Sraddha involves many dos and donts. So many restrictions and disciplining. Rituals are the best training grounds for developing sraddha.
 
Many thanks for your post on Sraddha http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/vedic-hyms/12632-layman-reads-rig-veda-18.html#post248563

Does RV talk anything about what types of goals should be persued with Sraddha? Is there any morality attached to the types of goals - be selfish, greed or noble, selfless.

I went and (re)read Griffiths version to get clarification.
Griffiths calls sraddha as faith - as you rightly pointed out it is more than faith - effort coupled with faith.

In 10.151.4 Griffiths gives the translation as Man winneth Faith by yearnings of the heart, and opulence by Faith.
शरद्धां देवा यजमाना वायुगोपा उपासते |
शरद्धांह्र्दय्ययाकूत्या शरद्धया विन्दते वसु ||


Does yearnings of the heart refer to selfish yearnings or selfless yearnings? Or it is left for interpretation?

Thanks again,
Moorthy
 
Many thanks for your post on Sraddha http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/vedic-hyms/12632-layman-reads-rig-veda-18.html#post248563

Does RV talk anything about what types of goals should be persued with Sraddha? Is there any morality attached to the types of goals - be selfish, greed or noble, selfless.

I went and (re)read Griffiths version to get clarification.
Griffiths calls sraddha as faith - as you rightly pointed out it is more than faith - effort coupled with faith.

In 10.151.4 Griffiths gives the translation as Man winneth Faith by yearnings of the heart, and opulence by Faith.
शरद्धां देवा यजमाना वायुगोपा उपासते |
शरद्धांह्र्दय्ययाकूत्या शरद्धया विन्दते वसु ||


Does yearnings of the heart refer to selfish yearnings or selfless yearnings? Or it is left for interpretation?

Thanks again,
Moorthy[/QUOTE
The words heart and mind (हृद्, मनः) are used in the same mantra. I do not know what they individually refer to.
As you might have seen, sraddha is mentioned only in respect of worship and not to any mundane things. It is my belief that sraddha acquired through rituals is transferred to our mundane things also and makes us more efficient. I am dealing with it in my next post.
 
Rituals
Sandhya vandana is a simple exercise for developing sraddha in the early ages. There are several mantras and several actions. Each action is linked to a particular mantra. They go together. Along with this breath is also controlled and made to align with the actions. By scrupulously following this one makes the mind obedient to restrictions. Once the mind becomes disciplined in small things, it is easy to discipline it in greater acts.
Note that there is a sankalpa in every vedic ritual. We say to ourselves, I am doing this act for this particular purpose. Even in Sandhyavandana there is a sankalpa. It trains the mind to look for the purpose of each act in our secular life.
Sandhya vandana should be performed slowly, deliberately, punctiliously, following every small detail. We see people hurrying through the actions, leaving the link between action and mantra to winds. Such performance does not develop our sraddha.
Lack of time should not be an excuse for such hurried performance. If you have just one minute, take up just one minute’s work, plan it meticulously and execute it perfectly. Even small works done with sraddha will give great benefits.
We have seen how in the Japanese Tea Ceremony, called Chaji great attention is given to every little detail. Sandhyavandana is to be performed in the same way.
The annual ceremony for the departed parents is called Sraaddha. It has to be done with sraddha. Whereas all rituals are to be performed with sraddha, why is the parental ceremony alone called Sraaddha?
A sraaddha involves the sraddha of not only the performer, but all involved in it. Thus the priests who take part have many restrictions, the yajamana’s wife and other assistants have to follow many dos and donts. Even the children in the house are disciplined greatly on that day.
In fact all Vedic rituals are training grounds for developing this sraddha. One may notice that there is no relationship between the rituals and the mantras used on the occasion. They are just to frighten you and keep you disciplined.
For example, the mantra madhuvata rtayate, in the Amavasya Tarpana simply means that for an upright man everything in the world becomes sweet. But this has been prescribed to be recited while offering oblation to the great grandfather.
While showing incense, a mantra is said. ‘Dhoorasi dhoora dhoorvantam’. It simply means, destroy one who is my enemy. What is the relationship between incense and this prayer.
The parishecana mantra requests Savita to induce the brain and advises to keep rtam and satyam united. It has nothing to do with food.
Why such unconnected mantras in all occasions?
The point is, all Veda mantras inspire some awe and reverence and cause to develop sraddha.
How did veda mantras acquire the capacity to develop sraddha?
Because of the way Veda is learnt. While studying Veda, the guru says a phrase and the students repeat it twice. No mispronunciation is allowed. 100 percent accuracy and perfection is insisted upon. One can not be declared passed by scoring 35% and first class by scoring 60% as we do in our schools. Thus a Sastri completing the study of one veda is a product of sraddha. He is sraddha personified and that is why his word is respected in all functions.
The responsibility of the Sastris is great. It is he who guides a whole community to success. If he is slack, his grhastas also begin to lose faith and give up.
Brahmins are not endowed with greater intelligence by God. It is the training method that makes them intelligent and makes them shine in all fields. We should thank our ancestors who devised this plan to train our minds. Is it not our duty to pass on this to our next generation?
In modern schools, sraddha- training is given in different ways. There are restrictions on uniforms, books, notebooks, how one should speak, how one should write, how one should behave etc. These are enforced with a stick in hand/ through fear.
But in vedic rituals, the restrictions involve devotion to a supreme power and are voluntarily obeyed.They are a mixture of bhaya, bhakti and sraddha भयः, भक्तिः श्रद्धा.
 
But in vedic rituals, the restrictions involve devotion to a supreme power and are voluntarily obeyed.They are a mixture of bhaya, bhakti and sraddha भयः, भक्तिः श्रद्धा.

I would like to ask why there need to be the element of fear?(Bhaya)?

As long fear is present a person might actually do something in auto pilot mode becos he fears sin and not becos he has Bhakti and Shraddha.

The fear element makes it hard to differentiate true Bhakthi and Shraddha.

If fear is removed..the person can decide for himself if he really wants to do something or not.

A simple example is wearing of seat belt..out here its compulsory to wear seat belt even for passengers sitting at the back of a car.

Many people do not wear them when sitting at the back and only when they see a policeman they quickly rush to wear it.

They fear the policeman and only then wear the seat belt cos they fear paying a fine.

But a person who truly respects the law and knows the reason why he/she should wear the seat belt will wear it no matter there is a policeman or not..he does not fear anyone but he wears the seat belt becos it could safe his life if in an accident.

So same here..I dont get it why the fear element has to be there..with fear what can we actually achieve ? Its only without fear we can really know ourselves.

That is why I do not like using the word God Fearing cos what is there to fear God?

If we do wrong we know we will face the consequences no matter what..so the only thing to "fear" is actually our own actions and not God.

As long fear is an external factor we dont really know our strength, bhakti and Shraddha...once fear is internalized and analysed and got away with we can have Bhakti/Shradda without any hindrance.

In my opinion I feel the Fear Factor is a stumbling block in evolution of thought.
 
Dear Smt.Renuka,
I agree with you that compliance to a rule out of fear is not sincere compliance at all. But people differ. Some respect the law out of fear and some do so knowing fully well the causes and effects of their actions. In the initial years also, fear, to some extent, makes the child rely on the support of its parents and obey their orders.

Thiruvalluvar says, அச்சமே கீழ்களது ஆசாரம் that is the lowly people follow the rules of dharma out of fear only. It is despicable, no doubt. But we can not deny that it exists.

The god-fearing people, as they mature, come out of their fear and begin to love God.
To remain god-fearing till end is not sincere devotion.

Most people, nowadays, perform sraaddha fearing the curse of the pitrs. Whether they do it out of love or out of fear, it can not be denied that it causes mental discipline.
 
Last edited:
I think that the following subhAshitA will also be relevant here


आचार्यात् पादमादत्ते पादं शिष्यः स्वमेधया ।
सब्रह्मचारिभ्यः पादं पादं कालक्रमेण च ॥

one fourth from the teacher(may be out of fear?), one fourth from own intelligence,
one fourth from classmates, and one fourth only with time.
 
Devotion in vedas
Generally, veda is divided into two parts. Those that support the performance of yajnas are called karmakanda and those that oppose the rituals are called jnanakanda.
As far as samhitas are considered, they cannot be called as advocating rituals. They came to be known as karmakanda only because of Sayana’s interpretation, which we have seen is tilted towards seeing everything as ritualistic.

While on the one hand, RV samhita says that yajna is the central point of the world and that those who do not perform yajnas are doomed to perish, it also says that even without yajna, one can please the gods by hymns and that effort is more important than yajnas.

The philosophy of mimamsa, which relies on the samhitas, says that karma by its nature is bound to produce results and there is no need for a god to supervise the cause and effect relationship. This philosophy is essentially atheistic.

Bharathi says that there is only devotion (bhakti) in the Vedas. Let us examine this. What is devotion? Bharathi defines it thus- having absolute faith in that God will protect us ever and everywhere.

What are the distinguishing marks of bhakti? To think that “God is our protector, ever and everywhere. He is our father, mother, friend and child. We surrender at His feet. We praise Him. We seek redress from him for our maladies. We will seek no one other than God.”

Now we will see some mantras where this devotion is expressed.

I will keep chanting your name
, says 7.22.5

Manicka vacakar says, I want to have my heart melted in your thoughts like the cow longing for its calf. 7.32.22 says, we, like a cow with full udder, invoke you, Indra. Please listen to our prayers.

Manickavacakar’s another famous line- அவனருளாலே அவன் தாள் வணங்கி. It means that one should have been blessed with divine grace to become His devotee. A similar prayer is found in RV 5.10.7- Agni is requested to bestow strength to worship him.

We have not seen god but that does not mean that god does not see us. This is brought out in RV 5.12.3- He knows us. I enjoy His wealth but I do not know Him.
Again in 5.17.2, He is beyond our minds.

The rishi Virupa Angirasa takes liberty to come close to the god. “If I were you and You were me, I would have fulfilled your request promptly.” 8.44.23

Rishi Kanvayana says, If I were Indra, my devotee would get a lot of cows. 8.14.1
The underlying tone is, I have been praying to you for a long time but you have turned a deaf ear to me so far. Such was the closeness that the rishis feel towards gods.

Indra is for sale! Anyone can buy my Indra for ten cows. They can use him for slaying their enemies and then return him to me. 4.24.10

You are ours and we are yours
. 8.92.32
Indra, come to my worship first before going to others. 10.160.1

Indra, you have been brotherless and kinless since birth, Make me your kin.
8.21.13
I drag you by the hem of your robe, as a child does with his father, by my prayer. 3.53.2

This reminds us of Manickvacakar’s சிக்கெனப் பிடித்தேன் எங்கு எழுந்தருளுவது இனியே

There are many mantras wherein the gods are addressed as father, mother, brother, kin or friend. Especially Indra and Agni receive such appellations most. 1.38.1 asks Maruts, When will you take me into your arms like a father?

O brave, do not kill us for one sin, for two or for three or for many.
8.45.34 This finds an echo in Kanda Shashti kavacam எத்தனை குறைகள் எத்தனை பிழைகள் எத்தனை செயினும் பெற்றவன் நீ குரு, பொறுப்பது உன்கடன்.

உன்னை ஒழிய ஒருவரையும் நம்புகிலேன், பின்னை ஒருவரை யான் பின் செல்கேன்
– This line from Thirumurugatrupadai appendix has its precedent in 8.66.1 There is none other than you to give me delight.

The rishi’s staunch faith in gods manifests itself in 8.78.10 Indra, with faith in you, I stand in the field with sickle in hand. Bless me with plenty of grains.
பொல்லா வினையேன் புகழுமாறு ஒன்றுஅறியேன் This lamentation of Manickavaacakar in his inability to praise god adequately, we find in 1.7.7 I do not know how to praise Indra.

May Indra be mine alone,
says 1.7.10

Thus we find that there are thousands of mantras in RV displaying staunch devotion of the rishis towards the gods. So essentially Rik Samhita is a book of prayers and is not a Karmakanda- book of rituals, as some people used to call it.
 
I have question here about the notion of performing rituals to please the Devas(Gods).

Its supposed to be a symbiotic relationship where humans please the Gods and the Gods in return please man with rain,grains etc.If the Gods are not pleased than man will not get the expected bounty.

What I dont understand is Lord Krishna said to do our duties without expecting any fruit in return..so going by that whether Gods are pleased or not by humans..they should still bestow humans with rain etc isnt it?

Why are Devas themselves seeking fruits for their own actions?

Further more Lord Krishna did demonstrate in the Gorvadhana Giri Dhari episode that rituals for appeasing Indra was not necessary.

So why is rituals still considered a mainstay in Hinduism?
 
There are two types of karmas Nishkamyam and Kamya karma. Nishkamyam surrenders everything and reach god's feet. Kamya karma is done for the sake of attaining benefits. If i remember Gita tells about both the things.In nature's cycle, if something is done only, something is got. That is what you sow is what you reap.Therefore if you please nature, they will in turn give back. If you put water to tree only it will grow and will give fruits. If rituals are done in a proper and disciplined way, it will definitely yield results.

As per as Govardhana Giri is concerned, Indra became proud of his powers and prowess.In order to teach a lesson, Lord Krishna did that.

Rituals if done with devotion and dedication will definitely yield results but you should be sraddha bound as previously told.
 
Dear Smt. Renuka,
Your question needs an elaborate answer. I will try to give something shorter.

In the Veda, devas are personified natural forces, which go by the name of rtam ( variously translated as divine law, natural law, the eternal law, the order etc.)

In the puranas, the personification is complete and one can not find that it is only a metaphor for the natural law. Here, in the puranas, devas are said to have a real bodies, their own likes dislikes etc.

RV sees the word as an embodiment of rtam. It gives three examples to explain rtam. The sun, with its regular motions is the symbol of rtam. It causes the rtus (seasons).

The next thing is the rivers. They go on for ever. (Fortunately those rishis did not live on the banks of Cauvery with its dryness for most part of the year). In spite of the unceasing flow, the sea does not get filled up.It goes up to form the clouds. This part of the cycle is invisible.

The third thing is the maturity of the cows.The calf, becomes a mother one day and immediately begins to give milk. The rishis wonder at this.

From the above three examples, the rishis learn the regularity, the cyclical nature of the world and the growth and decay of things in the world.

The cyclical rotation is found everywhere.
unless the sea water evaporates, rain is not possible.
So unless you please the gods, you can not get your favours.

Puranas and philosophies view the world in a simplified angle and so they concentrate only on one aspect at a time.

In Bhagavadgita, it is said that men please gods with yajnas and devas please men with rain. I do not remember the verse now but I remember, it has the phrase परस्परं भावयन्तः।

Krishna's advice to do one's duty without expectation of reward is to keep the mind calm." Be assured. You will be protected. That is the duty of the gods. You go on doing your duty. This is not a commercial transaction where you get equal measure of value for the goods or services given out." is his advice.

This is akin to the communist philosophy, "Give out your best to the society. You will receive what you need from it. To each according to his need, from each according to his ability."

Appar echoes this in his thevaaram.

நங்க டம்பனைப் பெற்றவள் பங்கினன்
தென்க டம்பைத் திருக்கரக் கோயிலான்
தன்க டன்னடி யேனையுந் தாங்குதல்
என்க டன்பணி செய்து கிடப்பதே.
 
Just another question here..not all religions have the concept of Demi Gods that warrants us humans to be in a mutual co dependent existence..but nevertheless those who profess those religions too live happily and peacefully.

So is it really compulsory that Devas are pleased when other religions do not please the Demi Gods?

Then it would be like only the Hindu is bearing all the responsibility to appease the Devas and the rest of the world benefits from that?( even though they do nothing to please the Devas).

In times of adversity we Hindus go Deva specific..when there is no rain some might want to invoke Varuna.

Those of other religions will directly submit a prayer to their Supreme Almighty.

So it does seem that other religions go directly to the Supreme isnt it? Totally bypassing Demi Gods.

Yet again in Geeta Lord Krishna does say this that everyone actually worships Him alone even though they might be worshiping other Devas.

So why the need to worship Demi Gods/Devas when one can directly worship the Supreme?

One verse in Geeta says that we are mutual co interdependence with the Devas and another says all prayers even though its to Devas is answered by Lord Krishna.

Seem to contradict each other..so if Supreme answers everything why do we need to appease the Devas?


ye’pyanya-devata bhakta yajante shraddhayanvitah
te’pi mam eva kaunteya yajanty-avidhi-purvakam


TRANSLATION:
O Kaunteya, those that worship other demigods with faith actually worship Me, but they do so improperly.


 
Last edited:
Dear smt.Renuka,
Indians suffer from an inferiority complex. When they want to meet a higher official or a minister, they do not go to that person directly. First they befriend the watchman, then please the clerk and the superintendent and then only they will be permitted to see the boss. Sometimes their prayers would have been answered at the lower level itself.

This complex reflects on the religions they created also. Not only in Hinduism, it is seen in Buddhism and Jainism also.

Buddha, who was an agnostic and would want no worship of any god, was himself made a god and began to be worshipped. Then, in Mahayana, a new set of demi-gods, known as Bodhisatvas were created. These Bodhisatvas acted as intermediaries between devotees and the Buddha.

Mahavira was a professed atheist. But in his religion many Theerthankaras came to be worshipped. Later on many saints were elevated to the position of demi-gods and are worshipped and they are believed to have superhuman powers.

Now let us turn to our own backyard.

Who are the devas (whom you call demi-gods)?

In Abrahamic religions also there are superhuman beings. Christianity has angels. Islam has, if I remember right, maluks. Jibrail (Gabriel) who displayed the Allah-dictated Koran to Mohamed was one such. These beings have some superhuman powers and they enjoy the proximity of God.

Vedic devas are distinct from these. These are humans who rose to that position. I remember I have written that Indra was a man and it was his achievements that made him a deva. So with Asvins, Rbhus etc. Surya Agni and Ushas were not humans elevated. But they are devas by their own merit. Rivers, clouds, horse are also hailed as devas. One thing common among all devas is that they all confer/ conferred happiness on us, each in their own way. Indra protected people of his time from many dasyus, Asvins from many diseases and so on. These people were deified after their physical death and were considered immortal and were believed to exert their benevolence. Horse, river, parjanya (cloud) are immortal by themselves.

The verses of RV were composed by rishis in 4 levels of consciousness.

1 Ordinary conscious state when the rishi composes poems with poetic embellishments.
2 Trance level- 1, when the rishi believes that the object he sees or invokes is a deva endowed with superhuman powers and he feels it obligatory on his part to please the deva for favours received or to be received.
3 Trance level-2, when the rishi identifies the deva with the Supreme Almighty God.
4 Trance level-3 when the rishi identifies himself with the Supreme almighty God.

So it is clear that the devas exist only in the minds and not in the outer universe. To please a deva means fulfilling an obligation for favours received or to be received and thus enjoy peace of mind. It is nowhere said in the RV that the devas are badly in need of food. When the worshipper offers an oblation in Agni, it is taken to the deva and he is pleased. He will not starve to death if nobody offers him food. It is only to satisfy our own minds that we offer oblations.

Hope I have sufficiently confused you.
 
Conclusion

It is time to wind up this year-long thread. It has had 8000 readers for nearly 80 posts, that is 100 views per post, though this number did not reflect in feedbacks. I thank all the readers for their patient reading of whatever I have babbled. My special thanks are due to Sri Moorthy and Smt. Renuka, but for whose encouraging posts, I would have stopped it long ago.

In the introduction, I had raised certain points which motivated me into reading the RV. Did I find answers for queries?

Yes. The study is not complete. It will take another twenty years of study to have some decent knowledge of RV. But, for the present, I feel I have found out the soul of RV, which is delineated hereunder.

There is a super-power which rules over the universe. It is mentioned as ‘sat’. In its static form it is the satyam (eternal). In its active form it is called rtam. Rtam is also called Dharma, Svadha and Vrata. While rtam is a principle, the practice- part of it is called yajna. The worships done to various gods go only to the ‘sat’. Any method of worship is ok. The only thing is to be aware that there is a super-power above you. Devotion to that is the only way to get rid of our sufferings.
The world is an embodiment of rtam. Everything in the universe has its own rtam. The door has its rtam, the sun has its, the bird has its own.

It is incumbent upon men to act according to his rtam. Man’s rtam is dependence. He has to depend upon others. The corollary is, he has to protect his dependants. Each man is a dependant in certain aspects and depended in others.
The worship of superiors and protecting the lowly is the yajna. Yajna and hardwork in the cause of others reward men with ‘light’. The light is the ultimate goal of man.

Now, let us take up the questions that baffled me at the beginning.

Does god have a form?


God is just ‘sat’, It simply exists. It has no attributes- no form, no gender, no desires, no motives and so on. The manner of worship is your choice. You can meditate on the formless attribute-less ‘sat’ or you can invoke it in an object for worship.

What is mukti?

Mukti, as we understand it today is not mentioned in RV. The RV rishis never thought beyond the life of this world. Only in the 10[SUP]th[/SUP] mandala, which is obviously a later day interpolation, we see traces of worrying about what after death. This cannot be taken as the central idea of RV as it is not supported by other mandalas, where the rishis seem to enjoy the life in this world with all its pleasures and pains. That life is a burden and one should escape from it is a concept which was the starting point of Buddhist and Jain religions. This has its roots in Yajur Veda. In Rudram, we find Rudra described as a weapon to destroy birth. (भवस्य हेतिः) Nowhere in RV we find any reference to escaping from the world or becoming one with god or reaching the lotus feet of god. No svarga, no hell, no rebirth, no karma, no renunciation. Of course the vedic rishis had their share of suffering. Deprivation, disease, enmity, being cheated, being robbed, being unable to get married, premature deaths and so son. They accepted all these and prayed to gods for redress. They did not think of any one-time solution like mukti.

Man’s ultimate aim is to attain the light स्वः। Going to the svah is svarga स्वर्ग. Svarga is an action, a happening, a movement and not a place. It is called immortality or the state of devas.
The best way to attain real immortality is by hard work to help others as done by rbhus.

Which god is acceptable to veda?

Call it by any name, it is the ‘sat’ that is the supreme power. ‘Sat’ is not its name. It has no name at all. ‘Sat’ means, that which exists. The vedic rishis called it by such names as Indra, Agni, Varuna and so on. Our ancestors of later period found new names for it such as Siva, Visnu etc. Bharathi found that kaadan, maadan, katteri, kali, saththan, allah, yehovah are all the names of the same ‘sat’.

What happens after death?

Nothing is said in RV about life after death. They simply did not worry about it. They enjoyed the present life and were happy with it with all its pleasures and pains. Of course, the tenth mandala mentions that the dead people go to the land of Yama. But this is a later day interpolation. Other parts of RV do not have any verses to substantiate this. Nowhere in RV there is any mention of rebirth.

What is the best method of worship?

Bhajan, Archana, Abhishekam, temple worship or home worship or something you devise on your own, everything is good. Even if you do not worship, it is also good. Be aware that there is a super-power. That is enough.

What about animal sacrifice?

RV speaks of animal sacrifice. They had no hesitation in eating meat. However, the milch-cow is called aghnya (not to be killed). When the number of bulls and horses declined the popular thinking was against animal slaughter. Indications of this trend are also found in RV. This is all about economy. No question of religion.

Is the vedantic concept of aham brahmasmi found in RV?

The verses of RV are found to have been composed in various mental states. Sometimes, the rishis are like ordinary poets indulging in poetical embellishments. Sometimes they are in a trance. This trance state can be divided into three levels.

In the first level, they see everything as god- the river, the horse, the cloud etc.

In the second level, they consider that thing as the supreme god capable of creating the universe and bestowing the best of favours on them.

In the third level, they identify themselves with everything around them. They say, “I am agni, I am the havis, I am Varuna, I made the rivers flow and so on.”

This last level was developed in the upanisads as the concept of advaita/ visistadvaita/ dvaita etc.
One cannot reach the last level without going through the earlier ones.
 
Dear Shri Vikramaji,

I enjoyed reading your summariztion/understanding (lay man's? - far from a layman IMHO)) of Rik Vedas. It rekindled a desire to read more and try to understand more. I really liked your writing on Rituals http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/vedic-hyms/12632-layman-reads-rig-veda-19.html#post249435 . I shared that article with a few of my friends and relatives (giving credit to you). Looking forward to your future summary/writings when it is possible for you.

Till next thread,

Namaskarams

Moorthy
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Latest ads

Back
Top