Comparing intercaste marriages (TB vs Other Brahmins)

[sravna]

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The stupidity, dumbness and cluelessness continue. This posted meant to be on The magic of Spiritual energy thread. Sorry.

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Atlast the Kanchi Sankaracharya has spoken on this indirectly

View attachment 22315

Was he not controversial in some aspects and did he not face severe criticisms?

Unity among Brahmins is relevant only if Smartha Brahmins and Vaishnavite Brahmins go separate and get independent religious status, if possible.

 

[vgane]

Was he not controversial in some aspects and did he not face severe criticisms?

Unity among Brahmins is relevant only if Smartha Brahmins and Vaishnavite Brahmins go separate and get independent religious status, if possible.

Why are you dividing Tamil Brahmins? What is your intention? Why are you trying to belittle the Kanchi Sankaracharya?

 

[a-TB]

Why are you dividing Tamil Brahmins? What is your intention? Why are you trying to belittle the Kanchi Sankaracharya?

The decline among TB community has to do with in-fighting and lack of clarity as to what it means to be a TB Jaathi. Right now it seems to be divisiveness, superstition as a way of life and self-centeredness supported by intellectual laziness

Brahmin Varna managed to preserve over million lines of mantras over several thousand years. We are grateful for the preservation of universal teachings against more than 1000 years of invasion. Respect and regard is naturally earned by all. Brahmin Varna lived without material acquisition. Yagna, tapas and Danam in terms of teaching were the hall marks

How many in today’s TB group that has done anything close. Even amongst scholars there is intellectual laziness and divisiveness. These Tamasic traits make them Sudra varna.

If there is a western philosophy of say Immanuel Kant and there is a question. Will people make up answers. But bring topics of Vedanta and Gita. Everyone makes things up without proper study. This is but an example of intellectual laziness. You cannot preserve what you cannot understand.

The religious functions tend to be display of ego clashes. Or it is about putting down other Jaathis. The priests mumble and onlookers are clueless as to what is chanted. The yajamana that is one doing the function is equally clueless and touches his nose if told to. What kind of culture is that.

How can such a culture sustain regard. Or prevent extinction. Just review some of the posts right here to get examples of each kind of ignorance.

The message is to earn the rights to be called a Brahmin. It starts with learning universal truths in scriptures. Be kind and compassionate. Stop in fighting. Help others. Tyaga is needed in life. Stop being intellectually lazy. Other communities will want TB to thrive

 

[vgane]

why do you think girls from other communities don't do IC marriage, it's because they don't educate their girls, that's why

You are mistaken! As surname is written by all the castes the other Brahmins( non Tamil Brahmins ) identify who is from their folk while falling in love in the office! This may look a bit odd for those who vouch for love at first sight! I have seen this personally!

 

[RamyaRaji]

The decline among TB community has to do with in-fighting and lack of clarity as to what it means to be a TB Jaathi. Right now it seems to be divisiveness, superstition as a way of life and self-centeredness supported by intellectual laziness

Brahmin Varna managed to preserve over million lines of mantras over several thousand years. We are grateful for the preservation of universal teachings against more than 1000 years of invasion. Respect and regard is naturally earned by all. Brahmin Varna lived without material acquisition. Yagna, tapas and Danam in terms of teaching were the hall marks

How many in today’s TB group that has done anything close. Even amongst scholars there is intellectual laziness and divisiveness. These Tamasic traits make them Sudra varna.

If there is a western philosophy of say Immanuel Kant and there is a question. Will people make up answers. But bring topics of Vedanta and Gita. Everyone makes things up without proper study. This is but an example of intellectual laziness. You cannot preserve what you cannot understand.

The religious functions tend to be display of ego clashes. Or it is about putting down other Jaathis. The priests mumble and onlookers are clueless as to what is chanted. The yajamana that is one doing the function is equally clueless and touches his nose if told to. What kind of culture is that.

How can such a culture sustain regard. Or prevent extinction. Just review some of the posts right here to get examples of each kind of ignorance.

The message is to earn the rights to be called a Brahmin. It starts with learning universal truths in scriptures. Be kind and compassionate. Stop in fighting. Help others. Tyaga is needed in life. Stop being intellectually lazy. Other communities will want

Glad to see someone has this perspective.A few of my thoughts (rants probably, didn't mean to be offending any one, limited to my experiences); I wish people be 'humans' first, before they call themselves a brahmin because of birth, practices, whatever!. Based on my experience, the last 17 to 18 years I feel majority of people, i came across are still 200 to 300 years backward!

While I was married, treatment was more of a maid, (Actual words by my FIL: "If i was not working they would not have to hire a maid!"; I was in early 20's to really understand the veracity of this and was fairly new to their family. I found a maid /paid salary, as beyond a point it was difficult for me handle work, home, chores, baby, managing 'rules' of the house (I still have a list of rules that was given to me!) Plus ex didn't have stable job).

Now after I came out of marriage , been close to a decade( refering to my earlier posts on the same) was it any better with fellow tbs?. No!. This is when i understood things are not over for me in terms of treatment ,and divorcees are actually untouchables and looked down upon! That was a surprise! (Despite me from prominent B school, and in a senior consulting position in a mnc). Actual words by a Tb relative was ' Neeyellam epdi oru ambala illaama oru life lead panna porayo!' - His tone discarded and destroyed me altogether before everyone ; me and my achievements were reduced to nothing! It was also incorrect of me to expect people to support or encourage me, my bad. What he doesn't know is I do live comfortably better than I would with a man; infact i pay my care taker (I don't call her maid) more than my ex would earn!.( I now understand why someone here suggested not to educate women. We know how to hold our values, Wish people grow up!!)

It is been a decade I was called or invited for any auspicious occasion. Even the ones I sponsored (mom's 80th b day) I was asked to stay on one corner! There are some instances I had to give my presence unavoidably, people tried their best to remove me from the place, or those indirect words pierced me -so i always kept away, respecting their faith. People like me are not here to wish bad for others, just because our marriage didn't work, We go through a lot before making such decision and we are more balanced than people think and honestly we would want the couple to live and stay together longer; Plus my worth doesn't lie in marriage. Only one in last 10 years -thankfully we had an opportunity to attend an auspicious occasion, when one of my cousin married a non brahmin, they were broad minded enough, they let me do rituals on the dias.

However this has its own ripple impact.My daughter has absolutely no connect to close relatives or any other TBs, occassions as we are mostly avoided anywhere and everywhere she has not seen any customs/traditions other than the regular festivals at home. (which is one reason am trying my best to learn things from this forum). She is terrified of people in general as well.

I seriously don't know why there should be so much of superiority complex when we hold on to such superstitions even to this day, and why would not a community decline? Irrespective of caste should we not aim to be better humans first?.All i see is most of the time many of my relatives praying to a photo as diety, and never try to listen , understand or follow teachings /discourses of any acharya; We dont live the preachings ; We only follow blindsided practices ; If asked for meaning many are not in a position to explain why we do- what we do; No humanity, and we are expecting us to thrive!

 

[RSSARMA52]

Each persons observation as per their community and office environment living. There are good, bad and the ugly in this which I observed for many years.
Today it is a common thing. I also remember that one such Maharashtra Brahman who had 4 daughters. He is legal profession and first daughter studied law. She helped father further promoting hee father's profession forward and solving cases as she us fresh. Then she went abroad for further studies. She had degree with dating a foreigner and brought him to India to meet his father. But he was in a different profession like music or other. She got married to him in India and I attended their reception at his home. Then she flew away with her husband. The other daughter's were studying that time. Father as before started his own legal profession himself.
So presently we are connected to the world by social media. Attractions doesn't need physical presence and proximity to know each other but just attracted by look and talk and socializing.
Arranged marriage how much parents do their research and consult Astrologer but once this self selection comes nothing stand between them.
Why only marriages there are infatuations to already married peoples life get damaged by arrogance of unacceptable reality by the peoples.
As long as a marriage between couples are making them happy, good life and dignity nothing to worry further.
I have seen girls married into husband's family never ever went to her parents home. But at the same time girls after marriage living not without their parents home and frequently present there. I knew a family where the mother-in-law's both married daughters ever present in her mother's home on all weekends at her married elder brother home. Husband has three more brothers but mother-in-law never tell them not to disturb by this attitude.
So life goes on with people to people.
I had a friend. Who one day said he is going to another state as his daughter's father-in-law's 60th birthday. He said she pulled me to court to marry her love to a Brahmin boy but the girl's is not brahmins but a good status name which I avoid writing here.
Once there was debate on a stage between two different sub-sects. The speaker arrived then asked what is the subject. He simply looked at the banner behind him and said one of it mine and you all know my personal life. No more to elaborate. Let the other speaker speak his point. This speaker has three wife. So accepting the fact.

 

[sravna]

Glad to see someone has this perspective.A few of my thoughts (rants probably, didn't mean to be offending any one, limited to my experiences); I wish people be 'humans' first, before they call themselves a brahmin because of birth, practices, whatever!. Based on my experience, the last 17 to 18 years I feel majority of people, i came across are still 200 to 300 years backward!

While I was married, treatment was more of a maid, (Actual words by my FIL: "If i was not working they would not have to hire a maid!"; I was in early 20's to really understand the veracity of this and was fairly new to their family. I found a maid /paid salary, as beyond a point it was difficult for me handle work, home, chores, baby, managing 'rules' of the house (I still have a list of rules that was given to me!) Plus ex didn't have stable job).

Now after I came out of marriage , been close to a decade( refering to my earlier posts on the same) was it any better with fellow tbs?. No!. This is when i understood things are not over for me in terms of treatment ,and divorcees are actually untouchables and looked down upon! That was a surprise! (Despite me from prominent B school, and in a senior consulting position in a mnc). Actual words by a Tb relative was ' Neeyellam epdi oru ambala illaama oru life lead panna porayo!' - His tone discarded and destroyed me altogether before everyone ; me and my achievements were reduced to nothing! It was also incorrect of me to expect people to support or encourage me, my bad. What he doesn't know is I do live comfortably better than I would with a man; infact i pay my care taker (I don't call her maid) more than my ex would earn!.( I now understand why someone here suggested not to educate women. We know how to hold our values, Wish people grow up!!)

It is been a decade I was called or invited for any auspicious occasion. Even the ones I sponsored (mom's 80th b day) I was asked to stay on one corner! There are some instances I had to give my presence unavoidably, people tried their best to remove me from the place, or those indirect words pierced me -so i always kept away, respecting their faith. People like me are not here to wish bad for others, just because our marriage didn't work, We go through a lot before making such decision and we are more balanced than people think and honestly we would want the couple to live and stay together longer; Plus my worth doesn't lie in marriage. Only one in last 10 years -thankfully we had an opportunity to attend an auspicious occasion, when one of my cousin married a non brahmin, they were broad minded enough, they let me do rituals on the dias.

However this has its own ripple impact.My daughter has absolutely no connect to close relatives or any other TBs, occassions as we are mostly avoided anywhere and everywhere she has not seen any customs/traditions other than the regular festivals at home. (which is one reason am trying my best to learn things from this forum). She is terrified of people in general as well.

I seriously don't know why there should be so much of superiority complex when we hold on to such superstitions even to this day, and why would not a community decline? Irrespective of caste should we not aim to be better humans first?.All i see is most of the time many of my relatives praying to a photo as diety, and never try to listen , understand or follow teachings /discourses of any acharya; We dont live the preachings ; We only follow blindsided practices ; If asked for meaning many are not in a position to explain why we do- what we do; No humanity, and we are expecting us to thrive!

Dear Madam,

One is able to understand and empathize with your heartfelt feelings. The fact that this is happening in a community touted for sattvic qualities is appaling. Having said that many a times people are acting out of base human instincts which simply overwhelm the self.

Humans are still early in the path of evolution though mahaans do appear now and then for the benefit of humans.

TBs are humans and hence the observed behaviour. From my own experience in spirituality I would say TBs are at a higher tolerance level though that is not sufficient enough for kali yoga. Hence you see them as bad as others in terms of fine qualities.

There is no excuse though and TBs have to rise a notch or two if they claim superior knowledge. All humans are capable of great qualities though sattvic qualities make them easier to attain. By sattvic I don't mean to attribute it to brahmins only but to anyone who has those qualities.

I wish people realize sooner than later that pure selfish and materialistic obsession are self destructive and correct the course for their own good and for that of the society.

 

[renuka]

Glad to see someone has this perspective.A few of my thoughts (rants probably, didn't mean to be offending any one, limited to my experiences); I wish people be 'humans' first, before they call themselves a brahmin because of birth, practices, whatever!. Based on my experience, the last 17 to 18 years I feel majority of people, i came across are still 200 to 300 years backward!

While I was married, treatment was more of a maid, (Actual words by my FIL: "If i was not working they would not have to hire a maid!"; I was in early 20's to really understand the veracity of this and was fairly new to their family. I found a maid /paid salary, as beyond a point it was difficult for me handle work, home, chores, baby, managing 'rules' of the house (I still have a list of rules that was given to me!) Plus ex didn't have stable job).

Now after I came out of marriage , been close to a decade( refering to my earlier posts on the same) was it any better with fellow tbs?. No!. This is when i understood things are not over for me in terms of treatment ,and divorcees are actually untouchables and looked down upon! That was a surprise! (Despite me from prominent B school, and in a senior consulting position in a mnc). Actual words by a Tb relative was ' Neeyellam epdi oru ambala illaama oru life lead panna porayo!' - His tone discarded and destroyed me altogether before everyone ; me and my achievements were reduced to nothing! It was also incorrect of me to expect people to support or encourage me, my bad. What he doesn't know is I do live comfortably better than I would with a man; infact i pay my care taker (I don't call her maid) more than my ex would earn!.( I now understand why someone here suggested not to educate women. We know how to hold our values, Wish people grow up!!)

It is been a decade I was called or invited for any auspicious occasion. Even the ones I sponsored (mom's 80th b day) I was asked to stay on one corner! There are some instances I had to give my presence unavoidably, people tried their best to remove me from the place, or those indirect words pierced me -so i always kept away, respecting their faith. People like me are not here to wish bad for others, just because our marriage didn't work, We go through a lot before making such decision and we are more balanced than people think and honestly we would want the couple to live and stay together longer; Plus my worth doesn't lie in marriage. Only one in last 10 years -thankfully we had an opportunity to attend an auspicious occasion, when one of my cousin married a non brahmin, they were broad minded enough, they let me do rituals on the dias.

However this has its own ripple impact.My daughter has absolutely no connect to close relatives or any other TBs, occassions as we are mostly avoided anywhere and everywhere she has not seen any customs/traditions other than the regular festivals at home. (which is one reason am trying my best to learn things from this forum). She is terrified of people in general as well.

I seriously don't know why there should be so much of superiority complex when we hold on to such superstitions even to this day, and why would not a community decline? Irrespective of caste should we not aim to be better humans first?.All i see is most of the time many of my relatives praying to a photo as diety, and never try to listen , understand or follow teachings /discourses of any acharya; We dont live the preachings ; We only follow blindsided practices ; If asked for meaning many are not in a position to explain why we do- what we do; No humanity, and we are expecting us to thrive!

You have been through a lot.
You are kind and able to handle life well despite all odds.
I usually dont use the word Strong because it gives an impression that we should only force ourselves to be strong and not identify with any weak moments we have.
As a human we have both strength and weakness..its through our weakness we gain strength.
Thats why I prefer to call you a balanced person who has the insight to handle the ups and downs of life.

Since you want your daughter to keep in touch with tradition, why dont you sign her up with Samskrita Bharati and get her to learn Sanskrit.
Once she learns Sanskrit it would help her gain deeper understanding of traditions, mantras and text such as Gita and Vedanta.

Speak to your daugter and ask her if she would like to learn Sanskrit.

Lots of love

 

[psnprem]

I'm a long timer lurker and never posted here.I'm from a karnataka brahmin family and I've few of TB friends. One thing I've observed is Intercaste marriages among TB is very high compared to other brahmins.For example in karnataka there are 4 major brahmin communities.I've seen personally that we can put maximum percentage of intercaste marriages are between 10 to 15%.

Girls do marry out more often than men , but still their percentage is quite low(Women perhaps marry out 15% , Men perhaps marry out 10%). In my family or extended family there isn't a single intercaste marriage.But I do know few women and men in my community who had inter caste marriages.In fact compared to 2000s and 2010s , percentage of intercaste marriages is becoming stable or lower.I've attended at least 40 marriages in 2024.Out of them 39 were from within a caste.Other one is married to lingayat community who are fellow vegetarians and have similar culture.

But things are starkly different among TB friends , where too many men and women married out. In fact among TB friends there are very few children born of both TB houses.In US I've seen too many TB women married whites, blacks, chinese , hell lot of them are atheists/agnostics or nonreligious.I was really surprised how many of them are ultra progressive and woke left.

Whenever family functions happen in my family , we are glad to meet people , who speak the same language , have the similar customs, similar thinking .But I've seen among TBs too many different types of people meet in their family functions and uniqueness is pretty much lost.

I've seen similar tendencies among Telugu Brahmins, where inter caste marriages are pretty less.When I visited north indian states ,I've observed that brahmin intercaste marriages are still within 10 to 15% threshold.

My question is why only the TB community is affected so badly ? Why not other brahmins? Basically brainwashing by dravidian parties has an effect in destroying the TB community?

I feel that in the future , when dravidianism dies , one has to import brahmins from north india just like it has been done multiple times before.

Dont worry Sir, Inter caste is better but its decreasing. Instead inter religions (Abrahamic) are increasing, accredited by family elders.

 

[a-TB]

Glad to see someone has this perspective.A few of my thoughts (rants probably, didn't mean to be offending any one, limited to my experiences); I wish people be 'humans' first, before they call themselves a brahmin because of birth, practices, whatever!. Based on my experience, the last 17 to 18 years I feel majority of people, i came across are still 200 to 300 years backward!

While I was married, treatment was more of a maid, (Actual words by my FIL: "If i was not working they would not have to hire a maid!"; I was in early 20's to really understand the veracity of this and was fairly new to their family. I found a maid /paid salary, as beyond a point it was difficult for me handle work, home, chores, baby, managing 'rules' of the house (I still have a list of rules that was given to me!) Plus ex didn't have stable job).

Now after I came out of marriage , been close to a decade( refering to my earlier posts on the same) was it any better with fellow tbs?. No!. This is when i understood things are not over for me in terms of treatment ,and divorcees are actually untouchables and looked down upon! That was a surprise! (Despite me from prominent B school, and in a senior consulting position in a mnc). Actual words by a Tb relative was ' Neeyellam epdi oru ambala illaama oru life lead panna porayo!' - His tone discarded and destroyed me altogether before everyone ; me and my achievements were reduced to nothing! It was also incorrect of me to expect people to support or encourage me, my bad. What he doesn't know is I do live comfortably better than I would with a man; infact i pay my care taker (I don't call her maid) more than my ex would earn!.( I now understand why someone here suggested not to educate women. We know how to hold our values, Wish people grow up!!)

It is been a decade I was called or invited for any auspicious occasion. Even the ones I sponsored (mom's 80th b day) I was asked to stay on one corner! There are some instances I had to give my presence unavoidably, people tried their best to remove me from the place, or those indirect words pierced me -so i always kept away, respecting their faith. People like me are not here to wish bad for others, just because our marriage didn't work, We go through a lot before making such decision and we are more balanced than people think and honestly we would want the couple to live and stay together longer; Plus my worth doesn't lie in marriage. Only one in last 10 years -thankfully we had an opportunity to attend an auspicious occasion, when one of my cousin married a non brahmin, they were broad minded enough, they let me do rituals on the dias.

However this has its own ripple impact.My daughter has absolutely no connect to close relatives or any other TBs, occassions as we are mostly avoided anywhere and everywhere she has not seen any customs/traditions other than the regular festivals at home. (which is one reason am trying my best to learn things from this forum). She is terrified of people in general as well.

I seriously don't know why there should be so much of superiority complex when we hold on to such superstitions even to this day, and why would not a community decline? Irrespective of caste should we not aim to be better humans first?.All i see is most of the time many of my relatives praying to a photo as diety, and never try to listen , understand or follow teachings /discourses of any acharya; We dont live the preachings ; We only follow blindsided practices ; If asked for meaning many are not in a position to explain why we do- what we do; No humanity, and we are expecting us to thrive!

Glad to see that seeming setback of a divorce has made you more mature and more in touch with yourself. As humans, some of us tend to grow in moments of suffering.

The suffering itself is arising because we are conditioned to believe caste is a real identity. The Varna in Gita , which defines only 4 is actually scientific and is not based on birth, The Jaathi also referred to as caste is a distortion of a lofty idea and we may have more than 2000 castes as of today!

The Jaathi came about in my understanding of a very lofty notion. The land of Indian subcontinent that spanned from Afganisthan (Gandhari in Mahabharatha was from place called Kandahar) to Burma (which used to be called Brhma desha). had one goal which is of spiritual upliftment. For that to become possible, competition based on comparisons was not seen as a virtue in those days, as it is seen today. So ambition and competition are not good for personal growth.

The society being non-competitive created a system of jobs based on the family one was born into. A pot maker family would raise children to be pot makers. The idea is that Moksha or freedom was not dependent on the job anyone did. That is why Svakarma is glorified in Gita

But this Jaathi is distorted in today's world. Today's TBs by and large are just namesake Bs. Chanting a few slokas or liking curd rice or listening to carnatic music or babbling words like atma, brahman , maya etc cannot make one a TB

The world today celebrates competition and everyone is a Vaishaya varna pretty much except a few worthy exception. The Brahmin as a caste has no relevance anymore. Being a tiny minority the nature is ensuring its extinction quickly.

Now you cannot talk about these to a typical ignoramus TB who think being born in TB family makes them satvic etc. They all kind of believe the Sankya meaning of the Gunas and our teachers teach like that. But real vedanta definition of Gunas is something else. Anyway I do not want to digress.

Not knowing truth of life or purpose of life may be ignorance but that by itself is fine. We are all born that way. Not knowing that one is ignorant is the real ignoramus.

Your ex FIL said something seemingly harsh because he was projecting his own insecurity on you. But it has an effect to hurt someone like you only because you may believe at that time TB is something decided by God. TB is an imagination at best. Your ex FIL is typical person who has not taken to study about real purpose of life. I may not be exactly right but wanted to use the example that the caste is born out of imagination. There is nothing real about it.

My suggestion for you is this. if you have not already, let go any reverence to the TB as a caste. Relinquish that idea in total. Now begin to celebrate all our cultural events with your daughter as in any TB family. You dont need to be recognized in the stage by ignorant TBs. You go ahead and live the best of TB culture being that you were raised in that culture.

Understand the profound significance of some of our authentic putanic stories. Study vedanta. Live the life of Yagna (chapter 4 Gita), danam (teaching others is the greatest danam) and Tapas. You will be the real TB as intended by shastras.

I would listen to ideas expressed here by all in this firum but dont take anyone seriously. That includes what I say also because in the end you have to see the truth for yourself. In Gita this is emphasized by saying 'the one that sees, alone sees - something like Yah pashyathi sah pashyati'. Meaning knowing is not useful. Seeing the truth alone is. It is a good forum to bounce ideas but learning has to be only from authentic sources.

I think if more people tried to live the life of a TB even in today's world , the world would want TB as a group to continue. Inter caste marriages are but symptoms of ignorant and superstitious culture TBs have morphed into

In the end, you can teach your daughter by how you live and not by what you say to her .. All the best

 

[CHANDRU1849]

Why are you dividing Tamil Brahmins? What is your intention? Why are you trying to belittle the Kanchi Sankaracharya?

Did any of the Sankaracharayas or Jeers speak to all brahmin groups to shed their differences and work as one group? They concentrate only to enhance their popularity, maintain ideology and to lead others.