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A Prime Minister In Peril

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Dear Sri KRS.,

It is my humble view the current incumbent does not fit in for the post of Prime Minister of this great country. He is a good person and I respect him for that. He may be an academically well qualified economist and wizard in handling financial matters, but not a national leader to lead the country nor who could take decisions on Political Matters. Further he is not an natural leader, but an appointee or a proxy for some one on whom leadership was foisted by quirk of fate. Being a bureaucrat for life, he is used to follow the rules, work within the parameters of responsibilities given. His interaction in Parliamentary debates have not shown any special skill in handling important subjects. Under the present Prime Minister, a new culture of arriving at Cabinet decisions has emerged.He left most of the decisions to be taken by "GOM" (Group of Ministers) or Cabinet Sub Committees. Our relationship with foreign Countries are not as good even as that of Mr.A.B. Vajapee's time. He is respected abroad more for his erudition, and not for skill. Unfortunately the great limitation that our PM has to face is that,except for a few Ministers, he does not have the support of excellence from others in running the Government of the Country.

Mr Ramachandra Guha is an eminent Historian and Sociologist of repute and I have no reason to suspect that the writer would have any bias towards Dr.M.M.Singh.

Warm Regards,
Brahmanyan,
Bangalore.

dear B,

as usual. spoken like a scholar and gentleman. i bow before you sir.

you know sir, i really dont know what government would have been good for india. but i do envy the chinese.

any country or society, in the process of development, suffers pain. in the usa, the pain was suffered by immigrants, europeans, for the better part of the 19th and early 20th century - the steel mills, railroads and cities were built on the blood and sweat and toil of starving whites from italy, poland and russia.

the erstwhile ussr sacrificed the generations of 1920s, 30s to nation building, and sadly stalin's crazy pogroms and imagined enemies.

the china under mao, during the cultural revolution devoured 20 million people. all because of a crazy man, who told children to spy on their parents and report it to the authorities. this. this from a society that revered the elders.

but today, china is blessed with a technocratic leadership..the era started deng zao ping. these guys have a vision. what they want china in 50 years..and go step by step, to plotting it, and the most important factor of all, achieving the goals. unlike nehru's soviet modelled 5 year plans, which were measured by how much we failed to reach the target.

one cannot but be impressed by china and its cities. agreed it is a feudal bureaucratic meritocracy. us tambrams probably would have revelled in the enforcement of lawand order, recogniton of marks based bookstudy merit and above all, enforcement of society wellbeing tactical laws like single child, which though strategically might be a disaster. or maybe not, because, there is. there is a chance, that china's population might end up shrinking in the next 100 years... planned shrinking..

just imagine, how prosperous india would have been.. if we had frozen our population to what we had at the time of independence: about 450 million or 1/3 of our current numbers. people kill the country. more people kill the country quicker. just what i think.
 
Dear Sri zebra16 Ji,
My response is in 'blue':
Let us take 3 or 4 cases how this liberalization (copying US) has affected a sizeable proportion of the Indian population:

(i) Unbridled inflow of foreign money killed the rate of interest on savings. (Remember India is "savings" oriented economy as against "spending" oriented philosophy of US). The pension corpus of the retired private sector employees got wiped out. The retired government employees were slightly lucky, in that the Government owned Provident Funds were subsidized by the budgetary allocations and they got about 8% return per annum on their investments. The tax paying community footed the bill
Are there any studies linking the FDI fluctuations to the savings rates? I thought that it is RBI's role to smooth this out with adjusting the money supply. By the way when you say 'savings were wiped out', how can Bank deposits be 'wiped out'? - I don't understand how this could be. Even if the interest payout is lower the original deposit plus all the accrued money from the past should be fine, right?

(ii) Once the newly retired community was "put to rest", the productive community was addressed to. Huge inflows into limited corporate entity of listed companies, saw stock prices rising day after day, inducing many to take stock trading as occupation. Speculation became the rule of the day with many leaving their jobs and selling their meagre land and mortgaging their houses put their money in stock markets. One fine day in January 2008 the FIIs realised that they have built-up capital to sustain them (FIIs) for the next ten years and withdrew the "foreign capital" causing the stock market to fall more than 100% in 2008-09. That left many of the budding stock traders shirt-less and laden with debts.
Again, I do not understand your math. If the Stock Market declined by more than 100%, that means the index fell below zero. What are you actually saying?
Investing in stocks is risky. That is why you have the 'Bull' and the 'Bear' symbolize the 'Greed' and 'Fear'. If people on their own volition with greed invested in this high risk game in high risk companies, they are 100% responsible. One can not blame the investment withdrawals in the equity market for that. Over a very long period of time, it has been shown that investing in good companies with long term potential in a fairly transparent market always returns higher averages, than say, saving rates, at least in US.

(iii) As if one speculation market of stocks was not enough, commodity market was opened to all and sundry. Agriculturists were trading in crude oil & precious metals and MBA students were trading in castor seeds & sugar. Needless to say the international speculators very soon divested the local Indians of their savings.
Ditto as above. A country's saving rate is important only if the borrowing costs for the country is high. If a country can borrow at lower rates than what it will pay for internal borrowing, it does not matter, does it?

(iv) Best minds of India (rank holders in IIT & IIM) whose studies were subsidized by Indian Government (and resultantly by Indian people) were recruited by International Bankers as "campus placements/recruitments" and their pay cheque of Rs. 100 million were so highly publicized in the media. The media does not cover what is their position "post-lehman/Post subprime crisis" era. What the common man wants to know is why waste 5 years of government money studying in modern IITs if one's interest is in finance and not in engineering.
Then don't subsidize anymore or subsidize on need basis. Govenment money not withstanding it should be a person's choice to pursue what he/she is interested in doing. Don't see the connection here with liberalization.

(v) Compulsory land acquisition in the name of "large scale infra projects" based on china model was the next best thing to happen. While the government was re-distributing the land of rich land-lords in 1950s, in 2010s they were busy in forcibly re-acquiring agricultural lands for re-distribution to "industrialists" for "industrial and infrastructural projects".
In every country this is done at least for Govt. projects with 'Power of Domain'. This is a political issue in India when it concerns land for Private Companies. Again I fail to see the connection between liberalization and this.

P.S.: Scams have not been taken into account.

How all the above "benefits" would turn India into a vassal state?

As long as India continues to be "reforming" and reaping the benefit as stated above, US would continue to extend support to India for obtaining permanent membership of the UN

India and US will conduct joint naval exercises

India and US will encircle China

US will use its good offices to take India out of the ban imposed by Nuclear Supplies Group

Of course India should continue to dance to the tunes of US on climate change, GATT, policy on Iran etc.
So what you are saying is that both countries have mutual self interests and can scratch each other's backs as friends. What is wrong with that? By the way, last time I looked, India did not go along with US on sanctions on Iran in UN, US sided with India and China on Climate change in Tokyo and did not mind when India refused to join in both wars against Iraq. Quite a 'vassal' nation, wouldn't you say? :)

Regards,
KRS
 
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Dear Sri Kunjuppu Ji,

If I may comment on your above post to Sri Brahmanyan Sir:

My take on China is totally different from yours. I was there for a better part of a year, setting up a unit for my company.

They have huge problems, both social and structural. I think they have built too many 'bridges to nowhere', wasting much money. Yes, they have developed their manufacturing with cheap labor, but are very dependent on foreign markets to sell their products. Their arable land is very small compared to India's both in percentage of the land mass as well in size (e.g., India's is 53% and China's is 11% - no wonder they ate everything in sight). They have long standing ethnic issues, that will erupt if and when political freedom comes. And finally, as they progress, political issues will come to the fore.

More importantly, I saw a country without humor, staid and stodgy the overbearance of the rulers visible everywhere. I do not think that is the model for India.

Regards,
KRS
 
Mr. KRS,#54,
Thank you for your first hand knowledge.
I have been saying that there is more to china story, but some of the poster here who are enamored with China, also like to criticize India. They do not appreciate India, personal Freedom, and democracy.
Thanks again.
 
Dear Sri Kunjuppu Ji,

If I may comment on your above post to Sri Brahmanyan Sir:

My take on China is totally different from yours. I was there for a better part of a year, setting up a unit for my company.

They have huge problems, both social and structural. I think they have built too many 'bridges to nowhere', wasting much money. Yes, they have developed their manufacturing with cheap labor, but are very dependent on foreign markets to sell their products. Their arable land is very small compared to India's both in percentage of the land mass as well in size (e.g., India's is 53% and China's is 11% - no wonder they ate everything in sight). They have long standing ethnic issues, that will erupt if and when political freedom comes. And finally, as they progress, political issues will come to the fore.

More importantly, I saw a country without humor, staid and stodgy the overbearance of the rulers visible everywhere. I do not think that is the model for India.

Regards,
KRS

China = 100 Mil Poor
India = 800+ Mil Dire Poverty

as per UNO

China = people get food, water, shelter, heathcare BUT no freedom + No respect + No Humor
India = people get democracy + freedom + respect + LOTS of Humor BUT no food no healthcare no water no shelter nothing, left die, beg, live in deplorable conditions.

you may want ask the 800+ Mil poor people (they are the majortiy) to chose which model they want !!
 
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Dear Sri Jaykay767 Ji,

Please post the UNO report you cite to backup your argument. I just don't buy it from my experience in China, especially with the numbers you cite.

Regards,
KRS

China = 100 Mil Poor
India = 800+ Mil Dire Poverty

as per UNO

China = people get food, water, shelter, heathcare BUT no freedom + No respect + No Humor
India = people get democracy + freedom + respect + LOTS of Humor BUT no food no healthcare no water no shelter nothing, left die, beg, live in deplorable conditions.

you may want ask the 800+ Mil poor people (they are the majortiy) to chose which model they want !!
 
Open, Democratic and a Secular Forum.... Yes, but, .....is it too much to expect it to be civilized as well? You can call a spade a spade, but I prefer to avoid calling a spade a 'damned shovel'.

Sir, I am only pointing out to you the possibility and trying to acclamatise you.
I am by no means facilitating or advocating them.
If you want to dive in, can I prevent you?
 
China = 100 Mil Poor
India = 800+ Mil Dire Poverty

as per UNO

China = people get food, water, shelter, heathcare BUT no freedom + No respect + No Humor
India = people get democracy + freedom + respect + LOTS of Humor BUT no food no healthcare no water no shelter nothing, left die, beg, live in deplorable conditions.

you may want ask the 800+ Mil poor people (they are the majortiy) to chose which model they want !!

<edited> Plz refrain from personal remarks.

Like Mr. KRS said provide some facts, otherwise it is all untrue.
 
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Dear Sri Kunjuppu Ji,

If I may comment on your above post to Sri Brahmanyan Sir:

My take on China is totally different from yours. I was there for a better part of a year, setting up a unit for my company.

They have huge problems, both social and structural. I think they have built too many 'bridges to nowhere', wasting much money. Yes, they have developed their manufacturing with cheap labor, but are very dependent on foreign markets to sell their products. Their arable land is very small compared to India's both in percentage of the land mass as well in size (e.g., India's is 53% and China's is 11% - no wonder they ate everything in sight). They have long standing ethnic issues, that will erupt if and when political freedom comes. And finally, as they progress, political issues will come to the fore.

More importantly, I saw a country without humor, staid and stodgy the overbearance of the rulers visible everywhere. I do not think that is the model for India.

Regards,
KRS

dear KRS,

now you have forced me to chime in, 'i have been there too'. let us not please get into 'where and how much mode', as it would sound too much like the 'fact finding' missions of usa senators and congressmen to areas of conflict.

one visit and we get an impression. that is all.

it was interesting, that i was forced to listen to the republican candidate debate moderated by george stephanpoulos dianne sawyer.

could not help noticing every candidate had to address concerns about 'containing' china. china, whether we accept it or not, is a big league player, i think. they had not made one misstep in foreign policy, after the vietnam/china war of 1990s.

i think the gut feeling in the usa is that china is a future enemy to be engaged, and i only hope india does not get carried away by 'praises' from the americans, and gets roped into an anti china axis. this is my personal opinion only and need not be proved.

everyone is hoping for an internal collapse of china like what happened to ussr. time alone will tell if they are proved right.
 
Dear Sri Kunjuppu Ji,

You know I have been to China. And vice-versa. I put that in as a context to the readers, many of whom are newbies as far as we are concerned. I just added a different perspective to your considered opinion.

How is one 'forced to listen to a debate?' :)

Folks here in US, by the way on both sides, over the last few years are starting to think that China is cheating with the value of the currency. They have been essentially doing a cyber warfare against the US, breaking in to many computers, stealing information. Their stance on Iran also does not help. This is why even President Obama made a few negative comments about China and as you might have heard, while slashing the defense budget, US military is now going to focus on the pacific, moving the focus away from Europe.

If I were India, I would be on the watch too. China is actively helping Pakistan, still has claims on parts of India, building roads and moving forces aggressively to those areas. Recent warning to India on off shoring oil off of Vietnam should not be missed. They have been very active in Nepal as a 'proxy' state. They are essentially throwing their weight around, without giving much respect to either the International law or norms. This is why India should be vigilant.

You may say that US also throws her weight around. But at least it is a democracy that can limit any reckless actions, and elections can reverse those. But not so for China.

Just my 2 cents....

Regards,
KRS
 
dear KRS,

i think we are insync re china. all you say about china cheating and fishing in troubled waters is correct.

it was your comments below, i think, was perceived by a few here, as 'putting china down and praising india'.

They have huge problems, both social and structural. I think they have built too many 'bridges to nowhere', wasting much money. Yes, they have developed their manufacturing with cheap labor, but are very dependent on foreign markets to sell their products. Their arable land is very small compared to India's both in percentage of the land mass as well in size (e.g., India's is 53% and China's is 11% - no wonder they ate everything in sight). They have long standing ethnic issues, that will erupt if and when political freedom comes. And finally, as they progress, political issues will come to the fore.

More importantly, I saw a country without humor, staid and stodgy the overbearance of the rulers visible everywhere. I do not think that is the model for India
.


my point is that china, economically, is eons ahead of india, like it or not. and some folks may not like it, but that is the truth.

unfortunately usa is tied to china for all the consumer goods, and they simply cannot cut off the addiction to new and cheap products, increasingly better and better in quality, made at the expense of usa factories. why cant the americans pay a few cents more and keep their factories buzzing.

today usa cannot produce or do not have the technology for many consumer and high tech stuff. apple ipod ipad iphone all made in china. which means technology is given to china for free. the same factories that make ipad in the day shift, make epad during the night shift, and sell it for a fraction of the cost. this is the truth and no one can deny it.

which is why i think, china is a big threat and usa wish that china will self destruct, if it comes true, will also mean that it will drag usa with it, for without chinese goods, usa has no goods.

i 'was forced to see republican debate', because i was at an airport gate, and the TV was blaring in front of me for an hour wait.
 
Dear Sri Kunjuppu Ji,

I agree about the wealth of China versus India. China's GNP is roughly twice that of India. Of course, it is roughly 1/3rd better in terms of health, poverty, etc.

But what I am saying is that over the next couple of decades, as both countries grow, China surely has a harder job of accommodating to democracy and associated institutions. And that requirement to move to democracy will surely come as the country's middle class grows. India has less of a challenge - it is about attracting more investments and getting rid of corruption. The former will come if administrative/political blocks are removed and as one can already see, the latter is now in the mix of national debate.

Here is an old article, comparing China and India by someone who knows both.
China vs India - The Match of the Century | Global Envision

Regards,
KRS
 
without comments, i present you, a link to responses from canadians to an article in the business section of toronto globe and mail, a respected newspaper.

i do not know if this is a typical attitude towards india by the west, but canadians are more aware of the world and india, i feel, than their usa cousins.

canada-inc-is-missing-the-india-opportunity//comments/

Nothing personal, I apologies if hurts some feelings.

Paper may be respectable, but people writing opinions are not.
Average person is not knowledgeable about sophisticated economics.
A Canadian is not going to challenging some ignorant Canadian writing about India.

"Before we look deeper into government debt, we also need to evaluate India from a total financial debt standpoint. By total financial debt, I mean an amalgamation of all debts - government debt, corporate bonds and bank loans. The total financial debt of the US and Europe as a percentge of the GDP is about 330-340%. Even China has a total debt/GDP of 180%. India on the other hand has only 116%. The key point is that the Indian economy is significantly (almost by a factor of 3 to 1) under-leveraged when compared with the western economies. Thus, the debt deleveraging concerns plaguing the west are not applicable to India.
Even on government debt, India's public debt/GDP was 44% at the end of 2010, as against 220% for Japan, 75% for the US and 72% for Europe. More importantly, India is growing at 17% nominal rate while the western world is struggling to grow at 3-4% nominal rate. Essentially, our government can grow its spending 17% year on year and still have a constant debt/GDP. The problem with the western world is that their nominal GDP is growing too slowly (3-4%) for them to afford the 7-8% fiscal deficits."

Rising government debt, high oil prices just can't shackle India's bull run - Economic Times

I wish PIO's will dig a little more before believing in hogwash.



[QUOTE]India is not very indebted: at 55% of GDP, bank credit is far lower than in China, let alone rich countries. [/QUOTE]

India
 
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Dear Sri Prasad1 Ji,

I am going to say something here that you may not like. But I thought it may give you a different perspective.

I do not agree on the face of it, your argument that there are India haters here. Especially among those of us who were fortunate enough to be born in that country of mysteries. I am yet to come across anyone here whether a theist or atheist, socialist or capitalist, orthodox or progressive, knowledgeable or ignorant, who does not love that country. We all only want the best for our motherland, best for our brothers who live there and more importantly best for the future generations.

We may not agree on how we think India should progress on her millions of problems, but this should not be taken as India bashing from anyone, just because they point out her shortcomings based on today's life there.

I hope I have not offended you.

Regards,
KRS
 
Dear Sri Prasad1 Ji,

I am going to say something here that you may not like. But I thought it may give you a different perspective.

I do not agree on the face of it, your argument that there are India haters here. Especially among those of us who were fortunate enough to be born in that country of mysteries. I am yet to come across anyone here whether a theist or atheist, socialist or capitalist, orthodox or progressive, knowledgeable or ignorant, who does not love that country. We all only want the best for our motherland, best for our brothers who live there and more importantly best for the future generations.

We may not agree on how we think India should progress on her millions of problems, but this should not be taken as India bashing from anyone, just because they point out her shortcomings based on today's life there.

I hope I have not offended you.

Regards,
KRS

Not at all.
If you constantly only find negatives about India and Indians, I should be ok.
If you have nothing positive to say about India and Indians it is ok.
If you constantly put India down in comparison to every other country it should ok.
But I did not Say that in this post. I do not think you should read my mind. LOL
 
Dear Sri Jaykay767 Ji,

Please post the UNO report you cite to backup your argument. I just don't buy it from my experience in China, especially with the numbers you cite.

Regards,
KRS

Well, hope this clarifies, how bad the situation is in India !!!

Pl refer below URL - 90 to 135 Mil Poor in China - this gives you what is the no of poor by China standards, world bank etc..


BY THE WAY CHINA PROVIDES FREE HEALTHCARE TO ALL ITS PEOPLE EVEN THOSE IN POVERTY. - REMEMBER CHINA IS A COMMUNIST/SOCIALIST COUNTRY !!

NO HEALTHCARE IN INDIA, ZERO, NADA, ZIP, NOPE, NONE = LEFT TO DIE !!

How many poor people are there in China?_Society--China Economic Net

In India, the country with the largest number of extremely poor however defined, more than 4 out of 10 Indians - or 41.6 percent of the entire population - survive on less than $1.25 a day.[7]

According to the ADB, the number of poor in India is 622 million for 2004-05 .

World Bank Poverty Figures: What Do They Mean? - STWR - Share The World's Resources

Indian Take: Poverty: How Many Are Poor In India?

Here is the poverty data for India and some other countries:

[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]Country
[/TD]
[TD]< $1.25/day
[/TD]
[TD]< $2/day
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]India
[/TD]
[TD]42%
[/TD]
[TD]76%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Indonesia
[/TD]
[TD]21%
[/TD]
[TD]54%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]China
[/TD]
[TD]16%
[/TD]
[TD]36%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Brazil
[/TD]
[TD]5%
[/TD]
[TD]13%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mexico
[/TD]
[TD]2%
[/TD]
[TD]5%
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

This means 90 crore Indians live in moderate poverty and 50 crore Indians live in extreme poverty.

Source: Wikipedia

Each year, the cost of health care pushes some 39 million people back into poverty, according to a study published in the Lancet medical journal. Patients shoulder up to 80 percent of India's medical costs. Their share averages about $66 (3,000 rupees) annually per person — a crippling sum for the 800 million or so Indians living on less than $2 a day.

Haq's Musings: World Bank on Poverty Across India in 2011

GREAT SAINT MMS SILLY SPEECH
Malnutrition a matter of national shame: PM


42% OF ALL CHILDREN ARE AFFECTED
WHAT THE HELL WAS HE DOING IN THE LAST 7 YEARS ?? I remember another member saying that MMS is a govt economist parrorting the statistics - perfect example !!!! - LOL !!!!

Read more at: http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/m...al-shame-pm-165424?pfrom=home-otherstories&cp
http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/m...ional-shame-pm-165424?pfrom=home-otherstories
 
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<edited> Plz refrain from personal remarks.

Like Mr. KRS said provide some facts, otherwise it is all untrue.

Now that I have responded with facts/figures to justify the vast difference in poverty between China & india with sources/URLs etc.., can you please remove this silly post !!!

you can dream a utopia about India, great democracy, most honest Saint MMS!, freedom, lots of humor blah blah blah & talk like all the politicians, India CEOS who repeat the "India Story" like a parrot !!. But some of us would like to live in the real world & talk about real issues.

Some of us would like to ask - yeah, yeah yeah, MMS is a Great Saint, but what the hell was he doing for the last 7 years to reduce poverty?. Oh yeah i know, oh he could not do anything becos he was/is remote controlled. So lets remove this silly saint & bring in a politician/statesman with human flaws but can implement "rural reforms" !!

Oh, you are impinging on my freedom !!
 
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Dear Sri Jaykay767 Ji,

This is what you said in your last post:

China = 100 Mil Poor
India = 800+ Mil Dire Poverty

as per UNO

My question to you was to prove this huge 1 to 8 scale comparison between China's 'poor' and what you termed as India's 'Dire poverty'. And you said, it was from a 'UNO' report.

This is what I was questioning.

And yet here you come up with all sorts of citations (which do not support your original theory of a poverty ration of 1 to 8 between China and India). And some of your citations are dated, if you notice.

If you are going to make an argument on numbers here, please make sure you do two things:
1. Cite credible sources to support your argument
2. If you do not cite a source, then do not reference an imaginary number to support your argument.

I know and appreciate your deep concern for India's poverty. We all share in that feeling. But don't you think that it is as much improper to inflate India's poverty to laud China's system as to deflate China's poverty to criticize India?

Regards,
KRS


Well, hope this clarifies, how bad the situation is in India !!!

Pl refer below URL - 90 to 135 Mil Poor in China - this gives you what is the no of poor by China standards, world bank etc..


BY THE WAY CHINA PROVIDES FREE HEALTHCARE TO ALL ITS PEOPLE EVEN THOSE IN POVERTY. - REMEMBER CHINA IS A COMMUNIST/SOCIALIST COUNTRY !!

NO HEALTHCARE IN INDIA, ZERO, NADA, ZIP, NOPE, NONE = LEFT TO DIE !!

How many poor people are there in China?_Society--China Economic Net

In India, the country with the largest number of extremely poor however defined, more than 4 out of 10 Indians - or 41.6 percent of the entire population - survive on less than $1.25 a day.[7]

According to the ADB, the number of poor in India is 622 million for 2004-05 .

World Bank Poverty Figures: What Do They Mean? - STWR - Share The World's Resources

Indian Take: Poverty: How Many Are Poor In India?

Here is the poverty data for India and some other countries:

[TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD]Country[/TD]
[TD]< $1.25/day[/TD]
[TD]< $2/day[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]India[/TD]
[TD]42%[/TD]
[TD]76%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Indonesia[/TD]
[TD]21%[/TD]
[TD]54%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]China[/TD]
[TD]16%[/TD]
[TD]36%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Brazil[/TD]
[TD]5%[/TD]
[TD]13%[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mexico[/TD]
[TD]2%[/TD]
[TD]5%[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

This means 90 crore Indians live in moderate poverty and 50 crore Indians live in extreme poverty.

Source: Wikipedia

Each year, the cost of health care pushes some 39 million people back into poverty, according to a study published in the Lancet medical journal. Patients shoulder up to 80 percent of India's medical costs. Their share averages about $66 (3,000 rupees) annually per person — a crippling sum for the 800 million or so Indians living on less than $2 a day.

Haq's Musings: World Bank on Poverty Across India in 2011

GREAT SAINT MMS SILLY SPEECH
Malnutrition a matter of national shame: PM


42% OF ALL CHILDREN ARE AFFECTED
WHAT THE HELL WAS HE DOING IN THE LAST 7 YEARS ?? I remember another member saying that MMS is a govt economist parrorting the statistics - perfect example !!!! - LOL !!!!

Read more at: Malnutrition a matter of national shame: PM
Malnutrition a matter of national shame: PM
 
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Dear Sri Jaykay767 Ji,

This is what you said in your last post:



My question to you was to prove this huge 1 to 8 scale comparison between China's 'poor' and what you termed as India's 'Dire poverty'. And you said, it was from a 'UNO' report.

This is what I was questioning.

And yet here you come up with all sorts of citations (which do not support your original theory of a poverty ration of 1 to 8 between China and India). And some of your citations are dated, if you notice.

If you are going to make an argument on numbers here, please make sure you do two things:
1. Cite credible sources to support your argument
2. If you do not cite a source, then do not reference an imaginary number to support your argument.

I know and appreciate your deep concern for India's poverty. We all share in that feeling. But don't you think that it is as much improper to inflate India's poverty to laud China's system as to deflate China's poverty to criticize India?

Regards,
KRS

Dear Sir,

Pl refer the URL's I sent (click on the lines that are colored they are URL's)- you will see as per world bank, China has 130 Mil poor in 2010 & India has 625 Mil poor in 2004/2005. If you refer to the other URLs in my post, you can see this no has jumped to 90 Crores (900 Mil ) for India.

you also need to adjust the fact that China has free healthcare for all its people, India has NO free health care least of all to the poor people. if you apply this to the 2004/2005 world bank report, this no will be up to 700 to 800 in 2004/2005 itself !!!!!! All these URLs provide the data with the sources mentioned !!

there are NO factual inconsistencies in any of my statements. of course if you say that I mentioned china poor as 100 mil & world bank says 130 Mil (nos vary from 90 mil to 130 mil), I then stand corrected. if u say u cannot adjust the nos for India becos of lack of healthcare & then compare only as per the $1.25 / $2 figures between India & China, I stand corrected.

I would love to see india shining as all of you but I would NOT do it by deliberately ignoring critical issues like healthcare & the way montek & Saint MMS deliberately tried to fudge by lowering the poverty line !!.

PS: The reason i used dire poverty for India & not for China is becos there is NO healthcare & you can see millions of people dying of simple diseases in India.

Cheers,
JK
 
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42% of indian children are underweight

the purpose of showing india's shortcomings, is not to put the country down. it is to bring a dose of reality, to those who believe 'india shining'.

this is to show, that there is no reason, for jingoistic breast thumping of 'victory'. the successive govts, since independence, have shortchanged the public consistently. when i was a teenager, and when the memory of british raj was still fresh, we always heard the murmurs, of how honest the raj was. today, vast majority have no memory of the raj, and all they know is the grinding corruption that infects us in our daily lives.

for once, the central government, has come to realize, that internal insurgencies are not a military but a social issue. PC has repeatedly offered to talk to the disenfranchised tribals, only to be spurned. they have had 60 years of promises, broken promises. they cannot trust the centre anymore.

frankly i do not know what the solution is. we have too many people in india, and maybe a good civil war, to finishing off about 20% of us, would do good and provide some fresh air and land, for the remaining.

russia, france, china, and yes, even england, went through internal revolutions, which chopped the head of the corrupt ruling classes. we need maybe some of it, in india of today.

there is a weak underbelly of the deprived - the ones that are the fodder for the maoists, who are estimated to control vast territories of central/western rural india. a desperate group will take up arms from anywhere, and those are the stuff that worries me.

que sera sera.
 
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Dear Sri Jaykay Ji,

You made your point and I did mine. No need to continue this conversation.
God bless.

Regards,
KRS
Dear Sir,

Pl refer the URL's I sent (click on the lines that are colored they are URL's)- you will see as per world bank, China has 130 Mil poor in 2010 & India has 625 Mil poor in 2004/2005. If you refer to the other URLs in my post, you can see this no has jumped to 90 Crores (900 Mil ) for India.

you also need to adjust the fact that China has free healthcare for all its people, India has NO free health care least of all to the poor people. if you apply this to the 2004/2005 world bank report, this no will be up to 700 to 800 in 2004/2005 itself !!!!!! All these URLs provide the data with the sources mentioned !!

there are NO factual inconsistencies in any of my statements. of course if you say that I mentioned china poor as 100 mil & world bank says 130 Mil (nos vary from 90 mil to 130 mil), I then stand corrected. if u say u cannot adjust the nos for India becos of lack of healthcare & then compare only as per the $1.25 / $2 figures between India & China, I stand corrected.

I would love to see india shining as all of you but I would NOT do it by deliberately ignoring critical issues like healthcare & the way montek & Saint MMS deliberately tried to fudge by lowering the poverty line !!.

PS: The reason i used dire poverty for India & not for China is becos there is NO healthcare & you can see millions of people dying of simple diseases in India.

Cheers,
JK
 
42% of indian children are underweight




frankly i do not know what the solution is. we have too many people in india, and maybe a good civil war, to finishing off about 20% of us, would do good and provide some fresh air and land, for the remaining.

russia, france, china, and yes, even england, went through internal revolutions, which chopped the head of the corrupt ruling classes. we need maybe some of it, in india of today.

I am aghast at your suggestion. Do you really mean that there should be an internal strife that wipes out 20% of the local population? It is okay if you do not have any suggestions to wipe out the poverty, but I would humbly request you to refrain from posting anything that crosses your mind.

Do you realise what is 20% of 1.3 billion people? Has there been any tragedy whether natural or man-made that has wiped out that number of humans? Would I be wrong in wishing that PIOs who nurture such thoughts are also in that 20% that would be wiped out of the face of the earth? You play the pious saint by sending the URL links to isolated human atrocities and think out aloud here wishing 20% of Indians are eliminated by fight amongst themselves.

You also wish gory head-chopping of corrupt ruling classes (in your thoughts India is in need of it today). Serial reading of your posts leave it in no doubt who you mean here, so I refrain from dwelling on it.

This post of yours is just a "sick post".
 
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