A song of Gayatri Mantra

[a-TB]

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Even though I might not fully resonate with what Shivakannan ji has written, but he seems like a very dedicated young man who is holding on to his tradition and belief system.

So I feel we should encourage young people to be adherent to religion/ spirituality even though our views because of our age and understanding differs from their views.

For example when I told Shivakannan ji to drop the Mine feeling of My culture, My ancestry etc, his reply to me made sense..he said he isnt at the stage to renounce attachment yet and would like to hold on to it and be steadfast.

His reply makes perfect sense.
Younger people do need the sense of being attached to their culture/ religion to be steadfast.

May be since we members are mostly oldies( me included), we have started to shed our attachments and our views have started to be different and more into awakening our spirituality and not so much into rites, rituals and culture.
But at the same time we should not discourage younger people who are adherent to their religion and culture.

Its better for a young person to be adherent to religion/culture even if he or she has blind faith then to let youngsters be so called intelligent and analytical but lead non conducive lifestyles.

An angel with blind faith is way better than an analytical devil.

I understand your motherly instincts to support.

Here are reasons I respectfully disagree with some of the points

1. Why bring age into the discussions? For most part, unless at an immigration counter, I am not conscious of age of the body. Plus I feel young in the heart. I dont think of other people's age unless a person needs physical help due to age of the body. Since you do talk about Gita topics etc, let me add that being conscious of one's own age is about being immersed in body identification. Why not let go of age-thinking? Recently I learnt something useful from a 10 year old.

2. Angels with blind faith reminds me of innocent kids brainwashed to become suicide bombers We should speak against ignorance at any level because blind faith at any level is not good for the person involved or the society.

3. Analysis is about logic and why should that be evil. If Analysis is used to cause harm then it is not good. Language we use is based on some logic. One cannot think of reaching absolute truth if one is loose with relative truth.

The downfall of Hinduism is due to propagation of blind beliefs, fake gurus and superstitions. Our teachings is universal and has never been against logic. Ritualists and emotional bhakthas, those that believe in miracles as a way a god communicates messages tend to be against logic in my experience.


The issue in this thread in terms of recent discussion has more to do with narrow mindedness. It is more of a heart issue to say women have to be excluded. It is not in vedas but smruthis have added all kinds of rules.

In my view the religion of Hinduism can be beneficial to human kind when practitioners are able to relate to the teachings of the heart. But logic comes in only to dispel wrong ideas. There is no other way. That is the neti-neti

I am not expecting agreement or disagreement

 

[a-TB]

I never said women can not chant - I said those without yajnopaveetam can not chant according to the rules. I have clearly stated I am not trampling upon anyone's freedom - I want those who want to follow the traditions not to be misled. You have lied and tried to defame me. This is unacceptable.

OK now you are acting like a cry baby. Come on, grow up man!

Women can chant but not according to rules is as bad as women cannot chant. Because chanting and meter are part of Vedas and chanting means chanting correctly only... That is how the oral tradition has worked over thousands of years. There were great Jnanis who were women in vedic times Sita of Valmiki Ramayana used to do Sandhyavandanam

There are westerners from America, Europe and Asians from places like Japan are learning Veda chanting. You have to hear how well they chant Sri Rudram for example. I know of a woman who learnt many parts of Yajur Veda for 10 years and could chant perfectly. She learnt with meaning and had Sanskrit expertise also.

You can choose to hold onto narrow minded views. Or come out of it. No one can defame you except yourselves

Let peace be with you .. Enjoy your life

 

[renuka]

I understand your motherly instincts to support.

Here are reasons I respectfully disagree with some of the points

1. Why bring age into the discussions? For most part, unless at an immigration counter, I am not conscious of age of the body. Plus I feel young in the heart. I dont think of other people's age unless a person needs physical help due to age of the body. Since you do talk about Gita topics etc, let me add that being conscious of one's own age is about being immersed in body identification. Why not let go of age-thinking? Recently I learnt something useful from a 10 year old.

2. Angels with blind faith reminds me of innocent kids brainwashed to become suicide bombers We should speak against ignorance at any level because blind faith at any level is not good for the person involved or the society.

3. Analysis is about logic and why should that be evil. If Analysis is used to cause harm then it is not good. Language we use is based on some logic. One cannot think of reaching absolute truth if one is loose with relative truth.

The downfall of Hinduism is due to propagation of blind beliefs, fake gurus and superstitions. Our teachings is universal and has never been against logic. Ritualists and emotional bhakthas, those that believe in miracles as a way a god communicates messages tend to be against logic in my experience.


The issue in this thread in terms of recent discussion has more to do with narrow mindedness. It is more of a heart issue to say women have to be excluded. It is not in vedas but smruthis have added all kinds of rules.

In my view the religion of Hinduism can be beneficial to human kind when practitioners are able to relate to the teachings of the heart. But logic comes in only to dispel wrong ideas. There is no other way. That is the neti-neti

I am not expecting agreement or disagreement

Its not motherly instincts..its just my opinion.
Identifying as a a mother itself is bodily identification.
Coming to me calling myself an oldie is a constant reminder to myself that shedding the physical body is something I must pay attention to so that I make changes in my self to introspect more.
Whether one feels young at heart or feels like an oldie both do have bodily attachment.
One who feels young at heart could be in denial and one who feels their age could be more in tune with reality and the one who feels neither old nor young or feels unborn is the one who has reached the state of realization.

Coming to women being excluded...recently I faced this from a family member at my mother's funeral.
All of a sudden this male family member though younger than me decided to play the gender card that women once married are considered outsiders and cant recite prayers or mantras for a deceased mother and forbade me from doing anything.
It wasnt a nice feeling at all but I didnt argue..I thought to myself that he can only forbid my vocal apparatus but he can never forbid my mind.
So I recited mentally.

Coming back to topic.
Shivakannan ji doesnt display aggression and no one here brainwashes kids to harm others.

I am not againsts logic but at times we just go with the flow and let our heart take over at times.
Sometimes the heart knows more than the mind.

 

[a-TB]

Its not motherly instincts..its just my opinion.
Identifying as a a mother itself is bodily identification.
Coming to me calling myself an oldie is a constant reminder to myself that shedding the physical body is something I must pay attention to so that I make changes in my self to introspect more.
Whether one feels young at heart or feels like an oldie both do have bodily attachment.
One who feels young at heart could be in denial and one who feels their age could be more in tune with reality and the one who feels neither old nor young or feels unborn is the one who has reached the state of realization.

Coming to women being excluded...recently I faced this from a family member at my mother's funeral.
All of a sudden this male family member though younger than me decided to play the gender card that women once married are considered outsiders and cant recite prayers or mantras for a deceased mother and forbade me from doing anything.
It wasnt a nice feeling at all but I didnt argue..I thought to myself that he can only forbid my vocal apparatus but he can never forbid my mind.
So I recited mentally.

Coming back to topic.
Shivakannan ji doesnt display aggression and no one here brainwashes kids to harm others.

I am not againsts logic but at times we just go with the flow and let our heart take over at times.
Sometimes the heart knows more than the mind.

It is not possible by using strong identification (feeling oldie which applies only to the body) and be out of the very identification .. Anyway you can discover for yourself ..No action can get one out of identification. Knowing alone can and knowing is not an action.

Heart referred to earlier is not physical heart. Heart in upanishad (as in 'cave of the heart') is not physical heart as clarified by Ramana Maharishi and many other Mahatmas. Young at heart means open to learning. Young word does not denote body age. Perhaps you may not be able to relate to this. Let me leave it as is.

Language of the heart is effortlessly sensed. There need be no conflict with logic because logic is only for negation of the false.

I dont have any view of Mr Shivakannan other than as a person who has some views. I shared some views only to communicate to anyone that cares, that the real teachings of Vedas are universal and broad minded. Even while describing kamya karmas I am told there is not a single place where Vedas say you are a kartha, How can there be Karma without kartha. This is the famous argument of purva mimasakas If it does not say who is kartha then why say women cannot do this or that. I am sure your relatives do not know such things. It is best to stay out - an advice I have to give myself to stay out of this thread !

These narrow minded ideas come from Smruthis. Many do not know the difference with shruthi.. Plus many more local traditions based on ignorance have creeped in into rituals.

Anyway let it be. Peace