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A song of Gayatri Mantra

Even though I might not fully resonate with what Shivakannan ji has written, but he seems like a very dedicated young man who is holding on to his tradition and belief system.

So I feel we should encourage young people to be adherent to religion/ spirituality even though our views because of our age and understanding differs from their views.

For example when I told Shivakannan ji to drop the Mine feeling of My culture, My ancestry etc, his reply to me made sense..he said he isnt at the stage to renounce attachment yet and would like to hold on to it and be steadfast.

His reply makes perfect sense.
Younger people do need the sense of being attached to their culture/ religion to be steadfast.

May be since we members are mostly oldies( me included), we have started to shed our attachments and our views have started to be different and more into awakening our spirituality and not so much into rites, rituals and culture.
But at the same time we should not discourage younger people who are adherent to their religion and culture.

Its better for a young person to be adherent to religion/culture even if he or she has blind faith then to let youngsters be so called intelligent and analytical but lead non conducive lifestyles.

An angel with blind faith is way better than an analytical devil.
I understand your motherly instincts to support.

Here are reasons I respectfully disagree with some of the points

1. Why bring age into the discussions? For most part, unless at an immigration counter, I am not conscious of age of the body. Plus I feel young in the heart. I dont think of other people's age unless a person needs physical help due to age of the body. Since you do talk about Gita topics etc, let me add that being conscious of one's own age is about being immersed in body identification. Why not let go of age-thinking? Recently I learnt something useful from a 10 year old.

2. Angels with blind faith reminds me of innocent kids brainwashed to become suicide bombers We should speak against ignorance at any level because blind faith at any level is not good for the person involved or the society.

3. Analysis is about logic and why should that be evil. If Analysis is used to cause harm then it is not good. Language we use is based on some logic. One cannot think of reaching absolute truth if one is loose with relative truth.

The downfall of Hinduism is due to propagation of blind beliefs, fake gurus and superstitions. Our teachings is universal and has never been against logic. Ritualists and emotional bhakthas, those that believe in miracles as a way a god communicates messages tend to be against logic in my experience.


The issue in this thread in terms of recent discussion has more to do with narrow mindedness. It is more of a heart issue to say women have to be excluded. It is not in vedas but smruthis have added all kinds of rules.

In my view the religion of Hinduism can be beneficial to human kind when practitioners are able to relate to the teachings of the heart. But logic comes in only to dispel wrong ideas. There is no other way. That is the neti-neti

I am not expecting agreement or disagreement
 
I never said women can not chant - I said those without yajnopaveetam can not chant according to the rules. I have clearly stated I am not trampling upon anyone's freedom - I want those who want to follow the traditions not to be misled. You have lied and tried to defame me. This is unacceptable.
OK now you are acting like a cry baby. Come on, grow up man!

Women can chant but not according to rules is as bad as women cannot chant. Because chanting and meter are part of Vedas and chanting means chanting correctly only... That is how the oral tradition has worked over thousands of years. There were great Jnanis who were women in vedic times Sita of Valmiki Ramayana used to do Sandhyavandanam

There are westerners from America, Europe and Asians from places like Japan are learning Veda chanting. You have to hear how well they chant Sri Rudram for example. I know of a woman who learnt many parts of Yajur Veda for 10 years and could chant perfectly. She learnt with meaning and had Sanskrit expertise also.

You can choose to hold onto narrow minded views. Or come out of it. No one can defame you except yourselves

Let peace be with you .. Enjoy your life
 
I understand your motherly instincts to support.

Here are reasons I respectfully disagree with some of the points

1. Why bring age into the discussions? For most part, unless at an immigration counter, I am not conscious of age of the body. Plus I feel young in the heart. I dont think of other people's age unless a person needs physical help due to age of the body. Since you do talk about Gita topics etc, let me add that being conscious of one's own age is about being immersed in body identification. Why not let go of age-thinking? Recently I learnt something useful from a 10 year old.

2. Angels with blind faith reminds me of innocent kids brainwashed to become suicide bombers We should speak against ignorance at any level because blind faith at any level is not good for the person involved or the society.

3. Analysis is about logic and why should that be evil. If Analysis is used to cause harm then it is not good. Language we use is based on some logic. One cannot think of reaching absolute truth if one is loose with relative truth.

The downfall of Hinduism is due to propagation of blind beliefs, fake gurus and superstitions. Our teachings is universal and has never been against logic. Ritualists and emotional bhakthas, those that believe in miracles as a way a god communicates messages tend to be against logic in my experience.


The issue in this thread in terms of recent discussion has more to do with narrow mindedness. It is more of a heart issue to say women have to be excluded. It is not in vedas but smruthis have added all kinds of rules.

In my view the religion of Hinduism can be beneficial to human kind when practitioners are able to relate to the teachings of the heart. But logic comes in only to dispel wrong ideas. There is no other way. That is the neti-neti

I am not expecting agreement or disagreement
Its not motherly instincts..its just my opinion.
Identifying as a a mother itself is bodily identification.
Coming to me calling myself an oldie is a constant reminder to myself that shedding the physical body is something I must pay attention to so that I make changes in my self to introspect more.
Whether one feels young at heart or feels like an oldie both do have bodily attachment.
One who feels young at heart could be in denial and one who feels their age could be more in tune with reality and the one who feels neither old nor young or feels unborn is the one who has reached the state of realization.

Coming to women being excluded...recently I faced this from a family member at my mother's funeral.
All of a sudden this male family member though younger than me decided to play the gender card that women once married are considered outsiders and cant recite prayers or mantras for a deceased mother and forbade me from doing anything.
It wasnt a nice feeling at all but I didnt argue..I thought to myself that he can only forbid my vocal apparatus but he can never forbid my mind.
So I recited mentally.

Coming back to topic.
Shivakannan ji doesnt display aggression and no one here brainwashes kids to harm others.

I am not againsts logic but at times we just go with the flow and let our heart take over at times.
Sometimes the heart knows more than the mind.
 
Its not motherly instincts..its just my opinion.
Identifying as a a mother itself is bodily identification.
Coming to me calling myself an oldie is a constant reminder to myself that shedding the physical body is something I must pay attention to so that I make changes in my self to introspect more.
Whether one feels young at heart or feels like an oldie both do have bodily attachment.
One who feels young at heart could be in denial and one who feels their age could be more in tune with reality and the one who feels neither old nor young or feels unborn is the one who has reached the state of realization.

Coming to women being excluded...recently I faced this from a family member at my mother's funeral.
All of a sudden this male family member though younger than me decided to play the gender card that women once married are considered outsiders and cant recite prayers or mantras for a deceased mother and forbade me from doing anything.
It wasnt a nice feeling at all but I didnt argue..I thought to myself that he can only forbid my vocal apparatus but he can never forbid my mind.
So I recited mentally.

Coming back to topic.
Shivakannan ji doesnt display aggression and no one here brainwashes kids to harm others.

I am not againsts logic but at times we just go with the flow and let our heart take over at times.
Sometimes the heart knows more than the mind.
It is not possible by using strong identification (feeling oldie which applies only to the body) and be out of the very identification .. Anyway you can discover for yourself ..No action can get one out of identification. Knowing alone can and knowing is not an action.

Heart referred to earlier is not physical heart. Heart in upanishad (as in 'cave of the heart') is not physical heart as clarified by Ramana Maharishi and many other Mahatmas. Young at heart means open to learning. Young word does not denote body age. Perhaps you may not be able to relate to this. Let me leave it as is.

Language of the heart is effortlessly sensed. There need be no conflict with logic because logic is only for negation of the false.

I dont have any view of Mr Shivakannan other than as a person who has some views. I shared some views only to communicate to anyone that cares, that the real teachings of Vedas are universal and broad minded. Even while describing kamya karmas I am told there is not a single place where Vedas say you are a kartha, How can there be Karma without kartha. This is the famous argument of purva mimasakas If it does not say who is kartha then why say women cannot do this or that. I am sure your relatives do not know such things. It is best to stay out - an advice I have to give myself to stay out of this thread !

These narrow minded ideas come from Smruthis. Many do not know the difference with shruthi.. Plus many more local traditions based on ignorance have creeped in into rituals.

Anyway let it be. Peace
 
Syllables of the Gayatri Mantra go much beyond the meaning that we know.

I am typing it here to share with everyone.

Tat - To awaken the sAphalya power embedded in the tApini granthi in the area of the Ajna chakra.

Sa- To activate the parAkrma power embedded in the saphalata granthi in the left eye.

Vi- To activate the pAlana power concentrated in the viswa granthi in the right eye

Tuh - To rouse the mangala karam power concentrated in the tusthi granthi in the left ear.

Va - To achieve the yoga power enshrined in the varada granthi in the right ear.

Re- To achieve the prema power concentrated in the revati granthi at the base of the nose.

Ni- To activate the ghana power lying in the sUshma granthi in the upper lip.

Yam - To activate the teja power lying in the gyana granthi in the lower lip.

Bhar - To activate the rakshana power concentrated in the bharga granthi in the throat.

Go - To achieve the buddhi power concentrated in the gomati granthi in the gullet.

De- To rouse the dhamanam power lying in the devika granthi in the upper portion of the left chest.

Va- To rouse the nistha power concentrated in the vArAhi granthi located in the upper portion of the right chest.

Sya - To activate the dharana power concentrated in the simhini granthi positioned in the place where the side ribs join in the upper portion of the stomach.

Dhii - To activate the prana power concentrated in the dhyana granthi of the liver.

Ma - To activate the samyama power concentrated in the maryada granthi in the spleen.

Hi - To rouse the tapo power concentrated in the sputa granthi of the navel.

Dhii - To activate the power of dUrdarsita in the medha granthi located at the end of the spinal cord.

Yo - To activate the antarnihita power concentrated in the yogamaya granthi of the left shoulder

Yo - To rouse the utpadana power concentrated in the yogini granthi of the right shoulder

Nah - To rouse the sarasata power concentrated in the dharini grantha in the right forearm.

Pra - To activate the adarsha power lying in the prabhava granthi in the left forearm.

Cho - To activate the sAhasa power lying in the Ushma granthi of the right wrist.

Da - To rouse the viveka power concentrated in the drusya granthi of the right palm.

Yaat - To awaken the seva power concentrated in the niranjana granthi of the left palm.

Taken from Sripada Sri Vallabha Charanamrit
 
Great Renuka! thanks for sharing. The power of mantras not come from understanding but from proper chanting. May be mantras are for the physical system which may explain this. In its most potent practice it may impact mind but typically it has more to do with the body I think.
 
Some beautiful points made by Shivkannan met with the usual greetings of you know nothing, you are confused and superstitious. Ignore and move on Shivkannan. You are doing great!
 
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Syllables of the Gayatri Mantra go much beyond the meaning that we know.

I am typing it here to share with everyone.

Tat - To awaken the sAphalya power embedded in the tApini granthi in the area of the Ajna chakra.

Sa- To activate the parAkrma power embedded in the saphalata granthi in the left eye.

Vi- To activate the pAlana power concentrated in the viswa granthi in the right eye

Tuh - To rouse the mangala karam power concentrated in the tusthi granthi in the left ear.

Va - To achieve the yoga power enshrined in the varada granthi in the right ear.

Re- To achieve the prema power concentrated in the revati granthi at the base of the nose.

Ni- To activate the ghana power lying in the sUshma granthi in the upper lip.

Yam - To activate the teja power lying in the gyana granthi in the lower lip.

Bhar - To activate the rakshana power concentrated in the bharga granthi in the throat.

Go - To achieve the buddhi power concentrated in the gomati granthi in the gullet.

De- To rouse the dhamanam power lying in the devika granthi in the upper portion of the left chest.

Va- To rouse the nistha power concentrated in the vArAhi granthi located in the upper portion of the right chest.

Sya - To activate the dharana power concentrated in the simhini granthi positioned in the place where the side ribs join in the upper portion of the stomach.

Dhii - To activate the prana power concentrated in the dhyana granthi of the liver.

Ma - To activate the samyama power concentrated in the maryada granthi in the spleen.

Hi - To rouse the tapo power concentrated in the sputa granthi of the navel.

Dhii - To activate the power of dUrdarsita in the medha granthi located at the end of the spinal cord.

Yo - To activate the antarnihita power concentrated in the yogamaya granthi of the left shoulder

Yo - To rouse the utpadana power concentrated in the yogini granthi of the right shoulder

Nah - To rouse the sarasata power concentrated in the dharini grantha in the right forearm.

Pra - To activate the adarsha power lying in the prabhava granthi in the left forearm.

Cho - To activate the sAhasa power lying in the Ushma granthi of the right wrist.

Da - To rouse the viveka power concentrated in the drusya granthi of the right palm.

Yaat - To awaken the seva power concentrated in the niranjana granthi of the left palm.

Taken from Sripada Sri Vallabha Charanamrit
According to shivakannanji you should not be allowed to do Gayatri Mantra:cool:
 
According to shivakannanji you should not be allowed to do Gayatri Mantra:cool:
If we read the post of Shivakannanji, he didnt state anywhere that a non brahmin woman cant recite the Gayatri Mantra.

He was only opposing the Gayatri being sung.

Anyway, personally I do not recite the Gayatri mantra as my sadhana though I read about mantras in detail to gain information.
 
Just because people make it available to all does not mean it is allowed. Just like certain rites can be performed by only married couples and not by a bachelor there are eligibility requirements for everything including the Gayatri. Arya Samaj may do as they please, but I deeply disagree with their philosophies. They say they accept Vedas but reject Smritis and other works such as Puranas, and they say because only Vedas are authoritative and Puranas and Smritis are written by Rishis. However, though Vedas may be authoritative, the hymns are only given to us by Rishis. So Vedas and Puranas are both given by Rishis and both are authoritative, you can not accept Vedas saying Puranas have biases of humans (Rishis).
There seems to be an issue with your understanding of shruti and smriti. The vedas and the upanishads, the BG, etc are examples of shruti. The shruti is what has been heard or given by Bhagwan and is more authentic per se. Of course the human bias may be there but marginally lesser as it is hard to deviate by too much.

The smritis are not written by divine guidance but rather are a product of their times, and as we know, time is not stagnant and thereby they seem to lose their value over time and become incompatible with our lives. The various dharma shastras are an example of this.

The puranas and ithiasa are a recounting of what has happened and are therefore not as authoritative in nature. That is why, though the BG comes as part of the Mahabharata it is a shruti and not a smriti as it is given by Bhagwan to Arjuna.

I do partly agree with you on the issue of enunciation of mantras. But even for that we have a remedy which is the saying of the pranava mantram before any mantra- Doing so takes away any bad effects such as mispronunciation etc.

The core issue in my opinion seems to be your dogmatic stance on what is "right" or "wrong". The beauty of Sanatana Dharmam lies in the factum that there is no "right" or "wrong". What Shankaracharya believes and propunds is not what Ramanujacharya believes to be the the case; However, you have many of us who consider both of them to be knowledgeable and "right" in their own way.
Your last point is exactly what is wrong and what I will tell people not to do. You say people should learn themselves. This religion does not accept that. That is why the Guru is given such a high status in our Shastras and Vedas. "Acharya Devo Bhava" states Shikshavalli. Vedic mantras are not even to be chanted or studied without a Guru as without a Guru people can easily misinterpret the religion. I can give another example. Reading many verses in the Bhagavad Gita such as 2.42, 2.43, 2.45 people may come to the conclusion that Vedas give material pleasure and that Krishna is advocating against yajna and only promoting Bhakti. However, when one reads the works of Acharyas such as Mahaperiyava, we understand, Shri Krishna is talking about the Mimamsakas who accept the Karma Kanda and reject the Upanishads and that Shri Krishna encourages Vedic yajna but says we should not attatch ourselves to heaven yielded by Yajnas and we should focus on Moksha. Hence, Acharyas are incredibly necessary. ONE MUST NEVER ATTEMPT TO LEARN ON HIS OR HER OWN.
You seem to be forgetting that the true guru is Bhagwan in various forms. The path to enlightenment cannot be done on your own- that part is true but the idea that the guru ought to manifest in a physical form is wrong. If that was the case, then the Vedas are to be heavily discredited can they not? There is nothing wrong in learning mantras through different mediums such as the pusari of a temple or on the net; Though one has to be careful and make sure that they are not saying something wrong.

When it comes to the decoding the texts, I am of the opinion that it cannot be done for you by a guru but rather it is upto each, our Karmas help guide us to what we have to learn from the texts and therefore there is no one size fits all. Such diversion in thought processes have given us different schools of thought like the advaita-vedanta, vishvavedanta, dvaita-vedanta to name a few. This is why the bharatiya form of education has always been conversations between people and how they interpret the various texts.

So I feel we should encourage young people to be adherent to religion/ spirituality even though our views because of our age and understanding differs from their views.
I feel that I may not be the right person to comment upon this as I myself am still a teenager, but Ma'am I think this sort of a mindset is the reason why our dharmic tradition has been on the decline. Do you not think it is wrong to encourage views that are based on misunderstandings of the texts or what has been taught? I believe the moral duty of a periva lies in calling out such misunderstandings as they too have gone through this and have learnt a lot. Carelessly encouraging views that are grossly wrong may be bad in the long run.

This was just my take on the conversation. I apologise if I have hurt anyone's sentiments.
 
There seems to be an issue with your understanding of shruti and smriti. The vedas and the upanishads, the BG, etc are examples of shruti. The shruti is what has been heard or given by Bhagwan and is more authentic per se. Of course the human bias may be there but marginally lesser as it is hard to deviate by too much.

The smritis are not written by divine guidance but rather are a product of their times, and as we know, time is not stagnant and thereby they seem to lose their value over time and become incompatible with our lives. The various dharma shastras are an example of this.

The puranas and ithiasa are a recounting of what has happened and are therefore not as authoritative in nature. That is why, though the BG comes as part of the Mahabharata it is a shruti and not a smriti as it is given by Bhagwan to Arjuna.

I do partly agree with you on the issue of enunciation of mantras. But even for that we have a remedy which is the saying of the pranava mantram before any mantra- Doing so takes away any bad effects such as mispronunciation etc.

The core issue in my opinion seems to be your dogmatic stance on what is "right" or "wrong". The beauty of Sanatana Dharmam lies in the factum that there is no "right" or "wrong". What Shankaracharya believes and propunds is not what Ramanujacharya believes to be the the case; However, you have many of us who consider both of them to be knowledgeable and "right" in their own way.

You seem to be forgetting that the true guru is Bhagwan in various forms. The path to enlightenment cannot be done on your own- that part is true but the idea that the guru ought to manifest in a physical form is wrong. If that was the case, then the Vedas are to be heavily discredited can they not? There is nothing wrong in learning mantras through different mediums such as the pusari of a temple or on the net; Though one has to be careful and make sure that they are not saying something wrong.

When it comes to the decoding the texts, I am of the opinion that it cannot be done for you by a guru but rather it is upto each, our Karmas help guide us to what we have to learn from the texts and therefore there is no one size fits all. Such diversion in thought processes have given us different schools of thought like the advaita-vedanta, vishvavedanta, dvaita-vedanta to name a few. This is why the bharatiya form of education has always been conversations between people and how they interpret the various texts.


I feel that I may not be the right person to comment upon this as I myself am still a teenager, but Ma'am I think this sort of a mindset is the reason why our dharmic tradition has been on the decline. Do you not think it is wrong to encourage views that are based on misunderstandings of the texts or what has been taught? I believe the moral duty of a periva lies in calling out such misunderstandings as they too have gone through this and have learnt a lot. Carelessly encouraging views that are grossly wrong may be bad in the long run.

This was just my take on the conversation. I apologise if I have hurt anyone's sentiments.
Dear OKO,
Thank you for the comments..do not fear that you are a teenager and shouldnt feel free to share your opinion.

I would just like to explain a little more.
When I wrote that we should encourage youngsters to adhere to religion/ spirituality even if their views differ from mine..this is what i meant..let me explain.

For eg I have met youngsters who follow ISCKON, they adhere firmly and tell everyone ONLY Krishna is Supreme and the rest of Divinities are Demi Gods.
I dont " correct" them..reason is what difference does it make to God which form is Supreme?
One may think Krishna is Supreme and another might think Shiva or Vishnu is Supreme.
So I usually dont really want to change anyones mindset as long they pursue some form of worship.

Its this minor things which I do not really feel its important to " correct"

Also each person is on their own journey and eventually all find their way.
 

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