After Death - What?

[CLN]

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What happens to any person after death is the primordial question which must have been gripping the minds of "Human Being" since his (which includes her also) creation. All religions have had some thing or other to say about it. From the one extreme of believing that there is NOTHING after death, i.e., when a person dies, that is the END and he just simply ceases to exist to the other extreme where even after death the person will have a life after death, the spectrum (not 2G or 3G but multi-G http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/images/icons/icon12.png) is very wide and has several notches for several variations of the prevailing beliefs.

in this general background, if we take Hindus specifically, Paapam, Punyam, rebirth, Kaarmic Cycle, narakam, moksham, saayujyam, Kaivalyam etc. have great significance. In all varnas, and particularly, among brahmins, it is strongly believed that when a person dies, his son(s) or some one else, when sons are not available or non-existent, should perform pithrukarmas properly so that the jeevaatma, which has just discarded the sthoolaroopam and is in pretharoopam for a certain number of days gets elevated into pithruroopam, is finally handed over to the congregation of older pithrus to go further on, probably to different lokas, like narakalokam, swargalokam, indralokam, brahmalokam, sivalokam, vishnulokam and any other lokam I am not able to recall to mind immediately.

I have three doubts here and I humbly beseach learned members to clarify, without laughing at me for my ignorance, or, arraigning me for my 'cheek' in posing such questions.

1. Are we not led to believe that one's karmas actually decide what happens to him after death? If that is the case, in what way can performing / not performing the pithrukarmas immediately after the person's death and later, annually in the form of shraddhas, modify his 'fate'? To put in another way, will the paapams of a 'mahapaapi' in life, just because his devoted son performs pithrukarmas for his father with great devotion and sincerity , be wiped off and therefore sent to 'good' lokas, but not to narakaloka to receive fitting punishment for his sins? Will he not be born as a lowly janthu (a worm for example) at all because of his sins? On the other extreme, will a very upright, honest Punyathma in mortal life be cursed to rot in hell because his mahapaapi son does not perform the last rites or subsequent shraddhas for his father? Will all the 'punyams' accumulated by the good man in his life be written off and lost on account of his son's fault?

2. If all the antimasamskaras associated with the demise of a person are performed properly culminating in 'Grekyam' or 'Griha Shanthi', with a Vidwan even discoursing on the good deeds of the departed soul and declaring that he must certainly be attaining one of the coveted good lokas, of what purpose are annual ceremonies for him? Will he be thrown off from the good loka because his son decides enough is enough and does not carry on with annual ceremonies?

3. When a person, particularly in old age, dies and within a year or so a baby with the same gender as the person departed, is born in the family it is declared and is sincerely believed, with great glee, that so and so is reborn in the family. What happens then to the unspent period of punyam / paapam of that person? Will it be 'carried over' from the old account and 'brought forward' into the new one?

Once again, I appeal to learned members not to get irritated with me for asking such naive doubts but enlighten me properly.

 

[kunjuppu]

What happens to any person after death is the primordial question which must have been gripping the minds of "Human Being" since his (which includes her also) creation. All religions have had some thing or other to say about it. From the one extreme of believing that there is NOTHING after death, i.e., when a person dies, that is the END and he just simply ceases to exist to the other extreme where even after death the person will have a life after death, the spectrum (not 2G or 3G but multi-G http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/images/icons/icon12.png) is very wide and has several notches for several variations of the prevailing beliefs.

in this general background, if we take Hindus specifically, Paapam, Punyam, rebirth, Kaarmic Cycle, narakam, moksham, saayujyam, Kaivalyam etc. have great significance. In all varnas, and particularly, among brahmins, it is strongly believed that when a person dies, his son(s) or some one else, when sons are not available or non-existent, should perform pithrukarmas properly so that the jeevaatma, which has just discarded the sthoolaroopam and is in pretharoopam for a certain number of days gets elevated into pithruroopam, is finally handed over to the congregation of older pithrus to go further on, probably to different lokas, like narakalokam, swargalokam, indralokam, brahmalokam, sivalokam, vishnulokam and any other lokam I am not able to recall to mind immediately.

I have three doubts here and I humbly beseach learned members to clarify, without laughing at me for my ignorance, or, arraigning me for my 'cheek' in posing such questions..

dear cln, when i first saw this post of yours, i felt that it was best addressed by those erudite in the scriptures. that is because i read only the first few lines. today after your note to sangom, i felt curious enough to go through this once more.

i am happy to note that you have the very same questions as i do.

1. Are we not led to believe that one's karmas actually decide what happens to him after death? If that is the case, in what way can performing / not performing the pithrukarmas immediately after the person's death and later, annually in the form of shraddhas, modify his 'fate'? To put in another way, will the paapams of a 'mahapaapi' in life, just because his devoted son performs pithrukarmas for his father with great devotion and sincerity , be wiped off and therefore sent to 'good' lokas, but not to narakaloka to receive fitting punishment for his sins? Will he not be born as a lowly janthu (a worm for example) at all because of his sins? On the other extreme, will a very upright, honest Punyathma in mortal life be cursed to rot in hell because his mahapaapi son does not perform the last rites or subsequent shraddhas for his father? Will all the 'punyams' accumulated by the good man in his life be written off and lost on account of his son's fault?.

cln, i also used to wonder how some of the biggest scoundrels, become pithrus and attain a i reverence in all our households. somehow the family forgets the அட்டூழியம்ஸ் and the crimes.

personally i believe that one has to pay for one's sins. in that context, the rites are more a solace for the living. i felt a deep sense of satisfaction for doing my parents last rites and the obsequies at kasi gaya.

over at gays, i also included all my ancestors. so technically speaking those are also beyond the cycle of births. so, all i have to do is to wait for one of my relatives of the future generation to go to kasi gaya and wish for my moksham, i guess.

2. If all the antimasamskaras associated with the demise of a person are performed properly culminating in 'Grekyam' or 'Griha Shanthi', with a Vidwan even discoursing on the good deeds of the departed soul and declaring that he must certainly be attaining one of the coveted good lokas, of what purpose are annual ceremonies for him? Will he be thrown off from the good loka because his son decides enough is enough and does not carry on with annual ceremonies? .

when i performed the obsequies at kasi gaya, i was told that there was no need to do further any annual shraddhams.

3. When a person, particularly in old age, dies and within a year or so a baby with the same gender as the person departed, is born in the family it is declared and is sincerely believed, with great glee, that so and so is reborn in the family. What happens then to the unspent period of punyam / paapam of that person? Will it be 'carried over' from the old account and 'brought forward' into the new one?

.

this is an interesting debit/credit concept of papam punniyam. i always thought the sum total of punniyams should be greater than the paavams. on the other hand, i remember of stories in our ancient lores, that even a scoundrel, at the time of death, if he utters the name of siva or vishnu, his sins will be forgiven and to vaikuntam he will go...

 

[Nara]

Dear CLN sir, after I saw your post to sangom sir, I took a look at your questions again. I have a feeling you already know the answers and are only teasing us for an answer. But I dare to give my take on the questions anyway.

I think all these rituals are more for the satisfaction of the surviving relatives. These are pure and simple superstitions. As a Charwaka would ask, if feeding a couple of Brahmins on earth will reach departed parents living in some celestial abode, why can't we satisfy the hunger of people in say the second floor, by feeding a few people on the ground floor using the same mantras as in a ceremony?

Human knowledge is incomplete and may never be complete, but that does not mean all the handed down superstitions like pouring nuts, fruits, ghee and silk saree into fire will produce everything from such esoteric things like punyam, a kind of cash that can be spent in swargam, or more concrete things, like rain. Not knowing why something happens does not mean all the ancestral religious dogma are true, and that only the truly wise and evolved person can see the truth, through some sort of mysterious intuition.

That is my story and I am sticking to it

best ....

 

[nachi naga]

charavakkan's when confronted to infuse life to a dead body failed in the test and admitted to the fact that jeeva has athma.one of the many reasons why charavakans philosophy lost ground much the same way as buddhism in asia.as to karma after death,or before death of the body is explained in sri bhagavath gita by lord krishna to sri arjuna as well as in srimad bhagavtham.the upanishads explain as well.as long as we live with a body lets do sathvic work as the saints explain.

 

[pannvalan]

I think a famous book in English with the title 'Life after death' was published in 20th century. I shall find its details soon.

If you go very deep into it, the very concepts of 'paapam' and 'punyam' are put to test. With a view to prevent disorder in the society and to give some reasoning and explanation to the distressed people for their sufferings, so as to give them mental solace, these could have been introduced by our ancestors. But, we can't prove or disprove them.

I had a very strange experience when I wrote a poem titled 'இறந்தவரை வணங்குதல் சரியா?'.

I shall write about it later.

 

[CLN]

personally i believe that one has to pay for one's sins. in that context, the rites are more a solace for the living. i felt a deep sense of satisfaction for doing my parents last rites and the obsequies at kasi gaya.

over at gays, i also included all my ancestors. so technically speaking those are also beyond the cycle of births. so, all i have to do is to wait for one of my relatives of the future generation to go to kasi gaya and wish for my moksham, i guess.

when i performed the obsequies at kasi gaya, i was told that there was no need to do further any annual shraddhams.

Mr. Kunjuppu,

I feel that you reflect the exact sentiments of many people, including me, when you say "the rites are more a solace for the living". Perhaps it may have another purpose also. There is a widespread belief (I am not sure whether it has any scriptural sanction to it) that the evil doings of a person will be borne upon his descendents. Performing the rites to ancestors by descendents, therefore, may even be a practice originated from this belief, as some kind of 'self-protection'. But again, this takes one back to the first of the three questions I have posed in my post.

As for your wondering about the need for one of your relatives of the future to go to kasi gaya and wish for your moksham, I think that in reality may not even be necessary. I believe, among the many rites performed by one at Gaya, there is also one called Aathmashraddham - 'a-once-and-for-all' sort of rite which makes all shraddhams done for that person unnecessary or superfluous. So, you might have performed that also and in that case there really is nothing to worry!

Generally, it is said that once a shraddham is performed in Gaya (for self or some one else) there really is no need again to perform any shraddham at all for that person. Again, I have no idea whether it is enshrined in any 'samhitha' or not, but it looks as though that it is not really taken in all seriousness because even after returning from Kashi/Gaya/Rameshwarm yaatra, people continue performing annual shraddhas to ancestors. Perhaps, meaning no offence to local Vaadhyaars, if all people who make the trip to Gaya stop performing shraddhas, it would adversely affect Vaadhyaars economically.

this is an interesting debit/credit concept of papam punniyam. i always thought the sum total of punniyams should be greater than the paavams. on the other hand, i remember of stories in our ancient lores, that even a scoundrel, at the time of death, if he utters the name of siva or vishnu, his sins will be forgiven and to vaikuntam he will go...

There is the famous 'Ajaamila Charithram' in which an once good 'brahmin' who took to sinful ways just called out his pet son 'narayana' (NOT Bhagawan Vishnu, mark it), but simply because 'narayana' happens to be bhagawannaama too, Lord Vishnu, in His Infinite Grace, sent Vishnudhootas to drive away yamakinkaraas who had actually gone to take away Ajamila to Yama's court to dispense justice according to his karma. This extraordinary episode is explained by Pravachanakartas very eloquently saying that Lord Vishnu, being the Supreme One, could simply "write off" the grave sins of Ajamila, give him Aatmajnaana and accept him into Vishnuloka, without even the need of the lucky guy Ajaamila experiencing the temporary inconvenience of visiting Yama's court!

What an extraordinary incident! This story is always cited to illustrate how powerful Bhagawannaama is and how easy it is to utter - it does not matter even if the person in his death throes is not thinking of the Lord but it is enough to utter his name which might have been given to an ordinary human being - a powerful incentive to give and call our children by one of the myriad bhagawannaamas.

It may be thought by some of you as irreverent of me to express my curiosity here that our country's politicians seem to have taken a cue or two from this story. Grave public offenders, under the protective wings of powerful personalities in this country, manage to escape the arms of law for long, if not ever, hold on to power and position, giving them time and opportunity enough to compromise records, which might be required by law to incriminate them, even leave the country, with their passports in tact with them. Such privileged 'bhaktas' of the Powerful Ones, even if they condescend to be "bound" by the brahmastram of law, manage after some muhoorthakaalams to come out unbound and unscathed!

 

[sangom]

What happens to any person after death is the primordial question which must have been gripping the minds of "Human Being" since his (which includes her also) creation. All religions have had some thing or other to say about it. From the one extreme of believing that there is NOTHING after death, i.e., when a person dies, that is the END and he just simply ceases to exist to the other extreme where even after death the person will have a life after death, the spectrum (not 2G or 3G but multi-G http://www.tamilbrahmins.com/images/icons/icon12.png) is very wide and has several notches for several variations of the prevailing beliefs.

in this general background, if we take Hindus specifically,

Paapam, Punyam, rebirth, Kaarmic Cycle, narakam, moksham, saayujyam, Kaivalyam etc. have great significance. In all varnas, and particularly, among brahmins, it is strongly believed that when a person dies, his son(s) or some one else, when sons are not available or non-existent, should perform pithrukarmasjeevaatma, which has just discarded the sthoolaroopam and is in pretharoopam for a certain number of days gets elevated into pithruroopam, is finally handed over to the congregation of older pithrus to go further on, probably to different lokas, like narakalokam, swargalokam, indralokam, brahmalokam, sivalokam, vishnulokam and any other lokam I am not able to recall to mind immediately.
properly so that the
I have three doubts here and I humbly beseach learned members to clarify, without laughing at me for my ignorance, or, arraigning me for my 'cheek' in posing such questions.

1. Are we not led to believe that one's karmas actually decide what happens to him after death? If that is the case, in what way can performing / not performing the pithrukarmas immediately after the person's death and later, annually in the form of shraddhas, modify his 'fate'? To put in another way, will the paapams of a 'mahapaapi' in life, just because his devoted son performs pithrukarmas for his father with great devotion and sincerity , be wiped off and therefore sent to 'good' lokas, but not to narakaloka to receive fitting punishment for his sins? Will he not be born as a lowly janthu (a worm for example) at all because of his sins? On the other extreme, will a very upright, honest Punyathma in mortal life be cursed to rot in hell because his mahapaapi son does not perform the last rites or subsequent shraddhas for his father? Will all the 'punyams' accumulated by the good man in his life be written off and lost on account of his son's fault?

2. If all the antimasamskaras associated with the demise of a person are performed properly culminating in 'Grekyam' or 'Griha Shanthi', with a Vidwan even discoursing on the good deeds of the departed soul and declaring that he must certainly be attaining one of the coveted good lokas, of what purpose are annual ceremonies for him? Will he be thrown off from the good loka because his son decides enough is enough and does not carry on with annual ceremonies?

3. When a person, particularly in old age, dies and within a year or so a baby with the same gender as the person departed, is born in the family it is declared and is sincerely believed, with great glee, that so and so is reborn in the family. What happens then to the unspent period of punyam / paapam of that person? Will it be 'carried over' from the old account and 'brought forward' into the new one?

Once again, I appeal to learned members not to get irritated with me for asking such naive doubts but enlighten me properly.

Many informed replies have already been posted. I give below my opinion about the questions (raised by CLN in the OP) below.

It seems that the people who composed the rigveda believed that the persons who die go to another world where all those who died before, have gone. Yama is the lord of that region. He was the first human to die and go to that world and hence this recognition. It is Yama who leads the dead person to the new abode. Those rigvedic people believed that depending upon the merits earned by performing sacrificial rites (yagas as we call them today), the dead person gets to live with the angirases who are the highest and more or less equal to devas, or some other (lower) status. No hell is depicted, no punishments mentioned. These are all later accretions into hinduism from various sources - both foreign, like greek and indigenous like the natives.

The mantras in the rigveda by themselves do not seem to envisage any sraaddha ritual, except one rik where there is an enquiry to the pirus whether they would not be returning (வருவீர்கள் இல்லையா?). But the rest, so it seems to me, are confined to sending the dead person to the yamaloka, to which no stigma was attaached then. (The zoroastrian/ ancient Persians also believe that Yima was their first king on earth, incidentally.)

My feeling of the Karma concept coming into "sanaatana dharma" must have had something to do with the concepts of the same name in jainism and buddhism, more particularly the latter. Buddha used it to denote the actions of a person in this world and said that if we follow good, egalitarian and eclectic karmas (behaviour) we will be able to overcome "dukkham". Buddha however refused to be drawn into discussion on life-after-death, transmigration, karma following to next birth etc. But one contradiction I find is the jataka tales which clearly depict various previous births of buddha.

Jainism also believes in Karma but their notion is not of karma attaching to the same "soul". The karma, made of invisible, astral particles, floats in space and attach to a new birth where they (the karmas) will find a way of satisfying themselves. So, the bad karmas will result in unlucky new births and good karmas will promote a welfare state. But here, the crucial point is "I" am not going to be affected by whatever karmas I do - except punishments in this world. So, if I can shrewdly escape those risks, I better indulge in whatever suits me. It is like connecting the sewerage from my house to the neighbour's compound so that it becomes "his headache" not mine. Knowing the mindset of our people, the ancients must have, therefore, thought of slightly amending this and telling that one's karma will follow "him/her" through eternity, till all punishments and rewards are experienced in this world itself. But they were not having any "divya cakshus" - divine sight - it seems now. The bhakti movement grew to such an extent that man saw a very loving, extremely kind and forgiving, humanlike god, and that made the efficacy of the karma theory obsolete.

If there is a very loving, extremely kind and forgiving, humanlike god, who is sure to forgive your every sin and "save you" (does it ring a bell at least in some ears?) why bother, do whatever you want and then run to god and say sorry, I won't repeat it again. This did not stop with mere apology but some token of the seriousness of the intention, and that is how we find so much of wealth with some temples. As time passed, god who was very loving, extremely kind and forgiving, say in the time when the Sree mahabhakta vijayam was composed, also underwent changes in his attributes and took on some of the characteristics of those who are powerful to condone your transgressions and save you from punishments in this world.

The "token" of apology slowly morphed into a bribe and I think that is what it is today.

Coming to sraaddhas, tarpanam, etc., as I said earlier, the rigveda does not seem clear about the manes being fed periodically by the heir/s or son/s in this world. This could have been assimilated from the primitive practices of some local tribes with whom the vedic people subsequently came into contact and immediately understtod the business potential in it for the priesthood. One question which I have in this regard is that if the right for doing the cremation and all the rites till the aabdeekam is that of the eldest (surviving) son, why should all other sons perform sraaddha in subsequent years? I have not received any satisfactory answer yet.

Also observe that the "sapindeekaranam" done on the twelfth day after demise is "advance booking" and infructuous, so to say. The soul of the deceased person will not be judged till the aabdeekam (since one day for the manes is equal to one year - solar or lunar or luni solar? - it has to wait till then. A jury of sixteen (the number varies according to desaacaaram) eminent persons will decide the eligibility of the soul into the pitruloka.

We try to keep them in good humour by giving feast, cash, new clothes and a vessel filled with water, so that their judgment will be in favour of the deceased parent's soul; we also perform the "sapindeekaranam"in advance on the 12th. day after demise, because, if the "karta" dies during the one-year period the soul of the parent will be in a limbo, even if the "eminent persons" decide in favour of admission into the pitruloka. If all these things do not reveal the truth of "as below, so above", what else will?

In this context I may say that viewed from the angle of the funral and sraaddha rituals, there is no other world (like vaikuntam, sivalokam, etc.,) except pitrulokam. We are able to secure admission for our parents only into this region, the rest is for them to look after.

mahamahopadhyaya Dr. P.V. Kane discusses these aspects in his exhaustive "History of Dharmasastras" and I have given extracts in this post. In it he mentions that according to vedanta (I think he refers to advaita primarily) immediately on leaving one body the soul has recourse to another body, either as a god or a man or a beast or a snake &c., and that the mārkaṇḍeya and the matsya puranas appear to agree with the doctrine. Hence, you will find that the sraaddha and tarpana etc., rituals are justified by convoluted arguments. An unbiased study of the puranas will show anyone the extent to which daanams (gifts) to brahmins has been extolled, practically on every conceivable occasion and a study of the kalpas will show how hundreds of "vratas" each culminating in gifts to braahmanas, have been extolled. Hence the conclusion is inescapable that the sraaddha ritual, tarpanam, etc., are pure manipulative instructions to ensure the well-being of the brahmins ans ensuring for them a somewhat reliable source of livelihood.

We, as a people, are sold on those ideas. So, it is perhaps not possible to preach against these practices. But our tabras are also shrewd. They know when to do what and when not to do; I find many people not performing sraaddham/tarpanam. Instead of sraaddham they donate to vedapatasalas or old age homes, "annadaanam" in some temples, etc. In course of time these practices are likely to catch up because of the high dakshina asked for by vaadhyaars and the shoddy way they perform the rituals.

As to the third question, I feel it is impossible to conclude that the deceased old person himself/herself is reborn in such circumstances. My view is that life is a general phenomenon - a universal field - like the parabrahman of advaita. When a person dies, the life principle activating his body, mind and intellect dissolves back into the universal field. (This seems to have been endorsed by vedanta also partly.) Any new life coming subsequently cannot be identified as the same earlier one; it is like your taking a glassful of water from the sea, pouring it back and then trying to get the very same old (molecules of) water which you took in the first instance. But the good and bad karmas of the dead persons affect the life field and what is born as the new baby might or might not be affected by the karmas of the ancestor. Each of us experiences the karmic influence which got attached with our present life principle at the very instant of birth and also by the results of our subsequent karmas. When we die and depart,

the best that we can do is to leave the life force field as little polluted as possible by our karmas; if at all we may pollute it by our good karmas, not evil ones.

 

[CLN]

It is interesting to note from the worthy post of siganeswarie that the views of the ancient Greek wise men like Socrates, Plato, Aristotle and a host of many others - they were the counterparts of our own 'maharishis' there, in a way - agree with the beliefs of this land in some essential aspects.

 

[CLN]

Dear Mr. Sangom,

Your exposition comes to me both as a relief as well as a revelation. 'Relief' because my own ideas run more less along similar lines, (with a crucial difference that yours are based on your erudtion and depth of knowledge but mine are born of my own sporadic thoughts) and really I am not much off the mark; 'Revelation' because till now I was under the impression that the concept of 'rebirth' and the belief that the quality of life of a person is based on poorvajanma karma, paapam, punyam etc. are very fundamental to 'Sanaatana Dharma' and they derived from the very Vedas, which appears to be not really the case.

Your view that "Life is a general phenomenon - a universal field - like the parabrahman of advaita. When a person dies, the life principle activating his body, mind and intellect dissolves back into the universal field" appeals to my scientifically trained mind strongly.

 

[Iyyarooraan]

In the divine account system, there are two sides - credit and debit. But never a balance sheet or the reconciliation of the two. Whether it happens here and now or continued elsewhere for the unrepentant doer of sins, even a super-super computer will not be able to find out. I definitely see a clamour for occupying the god's seat. One man's food is another's poison or vice verse. One slaughters a goat for money and another buys the meat for money. If you do not eat any thing, you starve and die and that is suicide which again is a Paap. Those days Brahmins were poor (the anti-brahminism notwithstanding) and again death was such a dreaded thing. Today it is not because the death is given a name by medicine/science. The starving people might have tried to assuage the wailing and the broken-hearted, in the fashion of rituals. the resounding mantras even today create vibrations in those that hear. The fashion has continued. Unlike ladies who change their fashion very often, men do not change theirs, like they hold on to their old shirt and worn out sandal. I think feeding a span of hungry belly is satisfying; that feeling must be your punyam. If you do not, you have hurt yourself and that is paapam'. All the mantras and rituals and dharmaas are created to instil in you that YOU are not the master of YOURSELF. If they had not done, all of us would have been Adams and made the Creator to worry. Fearing this He threw in the dice of "Eves" and named them 'dharmasamvardhinis'. Is it not time to talk about the living? If we do not care for us brahmins, we will all be compelled to go back and restart with increased intensity "bhavathi bikshaamdehi" as a matter of convenience. The readers maybe knowing that many VRSed, retired of our clan (who may, or not, have done sandhyavandanam or shraadham) have gone back to the time ordained "yatras", etc. compelled by economic conditions though not of starving type.

 

[nachi naga]

only the body dies.the memory of deeds,get another body.maynot be human all the time,could be animal,plant,metal,wood.tree etc.athma has the body,ie athma which is neither created nor destroyed,but is the sub stratum of all existance in all worlds.samastha loka sukhino bhavanthu.

 

[nachi naga]

The death of a person may occur during the main periods (Maha-dasaas) of the lords of 7
th and 2nd houses or the periods of the planets which are positioned in the 2 nd and 7
th houses or the planets which have relation with the lords of those 2 nd and 7 th
houses. If such periods (dasaas) do not occur during the life period of the person, the death will occur during the period of the lord of 12 th house (relative to janma lagnam =house of birth = ASD). ---------->Sage Parashara.

 

[kunjuppu]

.......... If we do not care for us brahmins, we will all be compelled to go back and restart with increased intensity "bhavathi bikshaamdehi" as a matter of convenience. The readers maybe knowing that many VRSed, retired of our clan (who may, or not, have done sandhyavandanam or shraadham) have gone back to the time ordained "yatras", etc. compelled by economic conditions though not of starving type.

iyar,

of late i have been to some special poojas where feeding of 110 brahmiins and similar large numbers is mandated. believe it or not, i have seen many VRSd and ex IAS officers there.

i was told that it was now fashionable to take the role of the 'indigent' brahmins. one organizer was proud of the gathering of so many graduates... what went unanswered was the query to the missing poor brahmins.."bhavathi bikshaamdehi" appears to have indeed taken a new avatar..

 

[Iyyarooraan]

Us, Brahmins

iyar,

of late i have been to some special poojas where feeding of 110 brahmiins and similar large numbers is mandated. believe it or not, i have seen many VRSd and ex IAS officers there.

i was told that it was now fashionable to take the role of the 'indigent' brahmins. one organizer was proud of the gathering of so many graduates... what went unanswered was the query to the missing poor brahmins.."bhavathi bikshaamdehi" appears to have indeed taken a new avatar..

Kunjupp, Sir: That means we have graduated or PGd, notwithstanding the efforts of antibrahmins!

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

TO ALL,
Recently I came across a website"www.exotic india.com" where a topic almost similar to this thread has been discussed with quotes from vedic scriptures.The topic is discussed in the form of 'RESOLUTION' and 'OBJECTIONS'.Interested members may go through this website which also contains discussions on various topics of interest relevant to 'Hinduism'

 

[siganeswarie]

he Sanskrit word Karma (or kamma in Pali) literally means action. In Buddhism however, karma mainly refers to one's intention or motivation while doing an action.
The shortest explanation of karma that I know is: 'you get what you give'. In other words; whatever you do intentionally to others, a similar thing will happen to yourself in the future.
Our largest obstacle to understanding or even believing in karma may be time. The 're-actions' or results of our actions show up with a time delay, and it becomes extremely hard to tell which action caused which result. Actions done in a previous life can create results in this life, but who can remember their past life? For ordinary humans, the mechanisms of karma can be intellectually understood to some extent, but never completely "seen".

 

[siganeswarie]

From His Holiness the Dalai Lama's book Path to Bliss:
"Some people misunderstand the concept of karma. They take the Buddha's doctrine of the law of causality to mean that all is predetermined, that there is nothing that the individual can do. This is a total misunderstanding. The very term karma or action is a term of active force, which indicates that future events are within your own hands. Since action is a phenomenon that is committed by a person, a living being, it is within your own hands whether or not you engage in action."

 

[siganeswarie]

As the Buddha taught:

"Do not think a small sin will not return in your future lives.
Just as falling drops of water will fill a large container,
The little sins that steadfast accumulate will completely overwhelm you.
Do not think a small virtue will not return in your future lives.
Just as falling drops of water will fill a large container,
The little virtues that steadfast accumulate will completely overwhelm you."
​

The Auspicious or Endless Knot (see image on the right) symbolises the nature of reality where everything is interrelated and only exists as part of a web of karma and its effect. (It can also be seen as an auspicious sign for long life, as it is endless.)

 

[siganeswarie]

THE FOUR LAWS OF KARMA

1. 
   Results are similar to the cause. Simply said, when I cause other people harm, I will harvest suffering myself. It is important to note here, that "positive" actions are defined as actions that have happiness as a result; "negative" actions are defined as actions that lead to suffering as a result.
2. No results without a cause. As is obvious within science, things do not just appear out of nothing.
3. Once an action is done, the result is never lost. Similarly as above, things do not just disappear into nothing.
4. Karma expands. Once we have an imprint of an action in our mind, it tends to be habit-forming. As is often said in wars for example, killing the first enemy is tough, but after a handful, one quickly loses count and it becomes "normal". Also psychology often stresses a similar point when e.g. explaining actions of adults from their childhood experiences.

 

[siganeswarie]

FOR KARMA TO RIPEN?

1. A previous action, or karmic potential.
2. Conditions: the circumstances must be available before I can undergo a specific result (vipāka).
3. A deluded mind. Without delusions in our mind, we will never experience the results of previous actions. This happens to Arhats and Buddhas; their minds have been purified from delusions, and they are beyond the realm of karma.

It should be realised that without any karma to ripen at all, we could never experience anything unpleasant - most likely, when this occurs, we are in a blissful state of nirvana or full enlightenment.

 

[siganeswarie]

he severity of the results of our actions depends on various factors:

1. Our intention or motivation - the intention is the most important aspect by far, as karma is mainly connected to the intention of the action, be it positive or negative.
2. The nature of the action: obviously, gossiping is less severe than killing.
3. The actual deed: whether we kill in self-defence or sadistically torture someone to death does make a difference, usually this directly related to intention.
4. The basis or object: it does make a difference whether we kill our mother or an ant.
5. Repetition; how often do we repeat the action, which reinforces the habit, and makes even killing feel less negative.
6. Doing the reverse: if we always behave negatively to others and never try to do any good, consequences will be severe.

How we experience the result of an actions does depend on our other actions in life. For example, if we experience the result of being hungry for a day, there is a huge difference whether we experience this as a malnourished person in a hopeless situation, or as a healthy fast for an obese person.

 

[siganeswarie]

Question: "Could Your Holiness please explain why the result of karma is sometimes instant and why on other occasions we have to wait lifetimes before the causal effect occurs?"
Answer: "One factor would be the intensity of the karmic action itself. Another factor is the extent to which the various other conditions that are necessary for that karma to ripen are complete, and this is dependent, in turn, on other karmic actions. Vasubandhu addressed this in the Abhidharmakosha, in which he states that, generally speaking, the karmic actions which are the most forceful tend to produce their effects first. If the intensity of a karmic action is euqal to that of another karmic action, then the result of the action with which the individual is most familiar tends to ripen first. However, if two karmic actions are equally forceful and equally familiar, then the one that is committed earlier tends to produce its results first."
​

 

[siganeswarie]

HAT CAN I DO TO REMOVE PREVIOUS NEGATIVE KARMA?

Nobody likes to suffer, so we all like to rid ourselves of negative karmic potential.
There are several possibilities, and in fact we may need to try and apply all of these methods as much as we can:

• To avoid having negative thoughts that lead to negative actions in the future, we need to observe and control our own thoughts and behaviour, and destroy our negative attitudes.
• Similarly, we can observe/study (meditate) our own mind and encourage positive thoughts that lead to positive actions.
• We can avoid negative karmic seeds to ripen by purifying it, using the four powers of purification (see below). Although this does not eliminate the negative karmic actions, it can avoid the results to occur.
• Ultimately, when we realise emptiness directly (see the page on Wisdom), and remove all our delusions, we are not under the control of past karma anymore.

 

[siganeswarie]

THE FOUR POWERS OF PURIFICATION

The purification practices found within Buddhism are not unlike the practices applied in many other religions. The most essential mental factor that one requires is sincerity or honesty with oneself. When one wants to purify past negative karma, one has to do some action with the correct motivation.
This is summarised in the following Four Powers of Purification:

1. Power of the Object: One should practice thinking of all sentient beings one may have hurt. Traditionally, one remembers all sentient beings and the Three Jewels of Refuge (Buddha, Dharma and Sangha), by generating compassion for all sentient beings and taking refuge.
2. Power of Regret: This should not be senseless guilt or self-recrimination, which are said to be useless emotional torture. What is intended here is to examine oneself and one's actions and to recognise that negative actions done in the past were very unwise.
3. Power of Promise: As a logical consequence of the above, one should promise not to repeat these negative actions. It is good if one can promise to avoid a negative behaviour for a specific time, or at least promise that one will put effort in avoiding repetition. Not being honest at this stage makes the practice useless or even harmful to oneself.
4. Power of Practice: Basically any positive action with a good motivation can be used as practice. Traditionally in Buddhism, one can practice e.g. making prostrations (throwing oneself to the floor - as a means to destroy pride), making offerings (to counteract greed), reading Buddhist texts (to counteract ignorance and negative thoughts), reciting mantras et

 

[siganeswarie]

FATE IS IN OUR HANDS - A PARABLE

In a time long past, there was an old monk who, through diligent practice, had attained a certain degree of spiritual penetration.
He had a young novice who was about eight years old. One day the monk looked at the boy's face and saw there that he would die within the next few months. Saddened by this, he told the boy to take a long holiday and go and visit his parents. 'Take your time,' said the monk. 'Don't hurry back.' For he felt the boy should be with his family when he died.
Three months later, to his astonishment, the monk saw the boy walking back up the mountain. When he arrived he looked intently at his face and saw that they boy would now live to a ripe old age.
'Tell me everything that happened while you were away,' said the monk. So the boy started to tell of his journey down from the mountain. He told of villages and towns he passed through, of rivers forded and mountains climbed.
Then he told how one day he came upon a stream in flood. He noticed, as he tried to pick his way across the flowing stream, that a colony of ants had become trapped on a small island formed by the flooding stream. Moved by compassion for these poor creatures, he took a branch of a tree and laid it across one flow of the stream until it touched the little island. As the ants made their way across, the boy held the branch steady, until he was sure all the ants had escaped to dry land. Then he went on his way. 'So,' thought the old monk to himself, 'that is why the gods have lengthened his days.'
​