Aging parents in the U.S.

[Nara]

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I have sensed a tendency among Indians to take pride in the notion that they put family ahead of self, taking care of aged parents. How far this notion is indeed true is an open question. In addition, they often make ill informed comments about how people in the U.S. are self-centered and don't care for their parents.

These comments are often made to justify the claim that Indians are motivated by the so called spirituality and the increasing aping of western materialism by the youngsters is bad for Indians.

The reality I think is much different. I offer the following article as an opportunity to get a little informed about the relationship between average parents and children in the U.S., the supposed Mecca of materialism.

The dilemma of taking care of elderly parents - Parenting - Salon.com

From what little I have seen of aging parents of 50 something children, both in India and the U.S., American aged and their children have more loving and understanding relationship than those in India. I look around in my own extended family and I see not a single parent getting along well with their children, some not in speaking terms. Whether the fault is that of the parents or the children, these cases reveal the truth about self, family, and love is more complex than the black and white divide between the so called spirituality and materialism.

Goes without saying it is just what I have observed. The extent to which this is true in general, I have no idea.

I invite the aging children of aged parents to comment.

Cheers!

 

[kunjuppu]

very true nara.

most tambram dils here are in no mood to take care the fil sil. if at all they stay, it is grudgingly accepted. makes it very difficult for the guys, who are caught between a rock and a hard place. those that stay with their daughters, i have found more at ease living here, mainly because the daughters go out of their way to make mom comfortable.

i know of folks here, who left their mothers in old age homes, while living a few blocks away. nothing wrong with the mom, just that the dil could not stand the mil. other families moved to the usa, again leaving the mom here. in my own case, i had close relatives in india, who wished for mom to stay, as otherwise i would be in a similar situation.

in india it is no better now a days. that is my opinion. generally. like all generalizations, this is flawed, to the extent that there are exception. i am talking about a broad paint of the brush.

my opinion, is that in canada, with more acceptance, and more prevalence of aged homes for different income and interest bracket, and the fact that most of these are like cultured folks, life may be a little easier. for instance, there are quite a few chinese aged homes, where you get chinese food and company.

the sri lankan tamils have started their own. us tambrams, as usual would not identify with the sri lankans. and the northies basically stick with themselves. alone and stranded. yes!

 

[Raji Ram]

Dear Prof. Sir,

A very nice and hot topic to discuss! Yes, I have also written about the very old parents in the US, mostly moms, driving the car and carrying their

stuff from the market without any help. I feel sometimes whether living a very long life is really worth it? Financial constraints make people

work till their late 60s years and life span has also increased with the modern medicine! Each individual wants to live his/ her own life and

the aged parents living with them will deprive them of their wish! Many senior citizens have old parents but only a few live with them. The

senior citizen homes give a helping hand to those who can afford the expenses either by themselves of by their old children. Many members in

this forum get upset when I say that senior citizen home concept is a good one! (I am ready to go any day to a well established SCH with my DH

and mom! )


In our colony, most of the parents have their children settled either in the US or some other country. Children visit them once in a year or two

and spend lavishly and go back with a huge smile! That is life... If the parents are able to settle down with their children, they are blessed! If

they are fated to stay alone, they should be healthy.


Regards.........

 

[sangom]

The article in salon.com brings out some relevant aspects of the "problem that is aged parents". Children (sons, especially) feel unhappy and even slightly guilty to leave parents alone in India. So they sincerely wish and request parents again and again, to come stay with them on long term basis. But once they have their parents with them, the reality comes knocking, especially if one of the parents is not healthy and often needs medical attention, the children are put to real inconvenience because, unlike in India, the medical care system is very different and always one has to go to doctor even for small ailments because drugs are not available as freely, just for the asking, as in India and a trip to doctor/hospital means the children will necessarily have to drive the parent there.

Once such uncomfortable realities start sinking in their minds, they have some rethinking. Sometimes they tend to feel that the old fellows are complaining too much and too often about health problems and decide that "go slow" approach may automatically set right the problems; this is most often viewed by the parents as neglect - wilful - and then they start feeling why at all their son compelled them to leave their comfortable Indian life and go with him.

Thus, this old-age parenting is a very difficult matter. More discussions will throw more light on the topic I feel.

 

[tbs]

hi
we have a day care home for seniors in USA....a typical for indian seniors....indian food with culture ,,,,visiting local hindu temple

once in a week ...run by americans....medicare/medicaid facilities....health care included,,,,,inclusive for indian age old parents....

gujarati/hindi are common languages....majority are guju old age parents....some hindi based ....not a single southie parents....

not a single tambram.....facilities super excellent....but our attitudes are different.....tambram has some psychological problems,,

they like to stay with son/ daughter......dil has to be adjusted....thses are pre conditions .....we have attitude problem,,,,,gujus

are most adaptive seniors in USA.....

 

[Yamaka]

hi
we have a day care home for seniors in USA....a typical for indian seniors....indian food with culture ,,,,visiting local hindu temple

once in a week ...run by americans....medicare/medicaid facilities....health care included,,,,,inclusive for indian age old parents....

gujarati/hindi are common languages....majority are guju old age parents....some hindi based ....not a single southie parents....

not a single tambram.....facilities super excellent....but our attitudes are different.....tambram has some psychological problems,,

they like to stay with son/ daughter......dil has to be adjusted....thses are pre conditions .....we have attitude problem,,,,,gujus

are most adaptive seniors in USA.....

I think many of the South Indians, in particular Tamils, may have attitude problem!

 

[Yamaka]

As I wrote earlier in another context, I lost my Mom for cancer about 2 years before getting my PhD. One thing that gives me enormous grief is her untimely death at the age of 68. I really wanted to do a lot for her, which even today I think of and shed tears.

My Dad died of natural causes at age 88 about 11 years ago. He was surrounded by lots of grand kids, and his life in the small village was very cozy and comfortable till the last minute of his life.

So, only my mil (age 80) and fil (88) are alive in Chennai. My wife has lukewarm contacts with them although she calls and talks to them for a few minutes every week.

Her older sister is living in Bangl'ore and they refused to move with her, because they needed "freedom and privacy". Their only grief is their son quite unexpectedly died of massive heart attack when his family was away! Rumors are he abused his health in drinking, smoking and all sorts of other habits - (in my mind they are all Brahmin Supremacists! My wife agrees - a point not irrelevant to the issue here! LOL ). Their dil lives alone about 3 miles away in T. Nagar, Cheenai.

My point is not all seniors want to live with their sons or daughters... they want to maintain their "freedom and privacy" as long as possible.

In my ils case, if one happens to depart, the other could move with the older daughter!

Wait & watch.

ps. We have not thought of our retirement as yet.. my only concern is to keep healthy, and be always busy with all sorts of multi-tasking, and sleep like a baby for about 6-7 h a day! If possible, I would like to die like my Dad - who asked for water, and before he could get it he died quietly without any pain in a minute! On the other hand some Theists may say "Y, for all that Godlessness, you deserve a cruel death, wait & watch"..... Oh, well whatever comes.... I will take it with a smile! LOL

 

[rishikesan]

All of you above, When i read your comments, I am able to fully appreciate that we, Tamil Brahmins are typical & have our own views. These views, though apparently looks same, yet there would be variations , when it comes to their own personal problems, because of the changing situations. I HAVE CLOSELY INTERACTED WITH sr. CITIZENS LIVING WITH THEIR sons/ DAUGHTERS IN u.S. DURING MY 3 VISITS. THEY FEEL MORE comfortable with their daughters, only because present day sons- in law are listening to their wives ., unlike a few decades earlier. It is also true that, almost all old parents like to live alone in privacy for as long as feasible, health permitting . Literally, problem starts in every house hold 1) when one of them pass away 20 one of them fall seriously ill & the other is also not fit to look to the daily needs of the other.( Couple who are currently 70 to 80 range, the age difference was 8 to 10) One is able to pull on for some more years. All said & done it is expected of the sons to come forward with affection, duly taking their Wives into confidence , so that the parents could have peaceful life , before they depart. One thing has to be ensured by those elderly couples is that they must develop patience & do their bit of house-hold chores, to gain the confidence of , not only the sons . but their daughters in-laws as well. Grand sons/ grand daughters would be useful ,in ,this task.
A.Srinvasan ( Rishikesan )

 

[kunjuppu]

rishi,

good post. i have lost count of times, when i suggest, that folks live with their daughters. makes life easy for everyone.

the sons make good sil, but poor sons. the dils make good daughters, but poor dils.

such is life!!

today.

 

[Nara]

From the comments I have seen so far, it seems to me, the complexities of relationship between parents and children are no less wrought with psychological issues for us Indians compared to the U.S., and neither are the U.S. folks any less caring of their elders compared to the Indians.

The key is to have a free, understanding, and respectful relationship between generations, in both directions, and in this, I think the Americans are able to pull it off far better than their Indian counterparts. For all the so called spirituality of indians, the Americans seem to be able to care for their parents just as well, or better.

Cheers!

 

[Raji Ram]

This write up is relevant to this topic and hence copy pasting it!

The lines in italics second Kunjuppu Sir's post # 9

அறிவீரே பெற்றோரே!

பாசம் காட்டி வளர்த்த மகன் மேலை நாடு சென்ற பின்
நேசம் காட்ட மறந்தால் என்னதான் செய்வது?

“தென்னையைப் வெச்சா இளநீரு; பிள்ளையைப் பெத்தா கண்ணீரு!”
உண்மைதான் உரைத்துள்ளார்! அது மிகக் கசப்புத்தான்!

தன் வாழ்க்கைத் துணையைத் தானே தேடணுமாம் – பெற்றோர்
தன் வேலை வளர்த்ததுடன் தீர்ந்த்ததென எண்ணணுமாம்!

நம் இனத்தில் நல்ல பெண்ணிருந்தால் கூறு என்றால்,
எவ்வினமாயின் என்ன? உன் வேலையைப் பார் என்கின்றார்!

தன்னைப் பேணிய பெற்றோரை விடவும் – தான் அந்த
மண்ணில் கண்ட மடந்தை உயர்வாகப் போகின்றாள்!

இந்நாளில் பெண்களுக்கோ அமெரிக்க மாப்பிள்ளை வேணும்;
எந்நாளும் மாமன் மாமி இந்தியாவில் இருக்கவேணும்!

பெண்கள் மட்டும்தான் பெற்றோரைப் பேணுகின்றார் – இல்லை!
பெண்கள் தன் பெற்றோரை மட்டும் பேணுகின்றார்!!

சாண்பிள்ளை ஆனாலும் ஆண் பிள்ளை என்று எண்ணித்
தான் மகிழ்ந்த காலமெல்லாம் மலை ஏறிப் போயிற்று!

பிற் காலத்தில் தன் தேவைகளைத் தன் பிள்ளை கவனிப்பான் என
எக்காலத்திலும் கற்பனை வேண்டாம்! அறிவீரே! பெற்றோரே!

தன் உழைப்பால் சேர்த்த செல்வம் தானம் தருமம் போகத்
தனக்கென்றே வைத்தவர்தான் கலிநாளில் பிழைத்திடுவர்!!

eace:

 

[sangom]

This write up is relevant to this topic and hence copy pasting it!

The lines in italics second Kunjuppu Sir's post # 9

அறிவீரே பெற்றோரே!

பாசம் காட்டி வளர்த்த மகன் மேலை நாடு சென்ற பின்
நேசம் காட்ட மறந்தால் என்னதான் செய்வது?

“தென்னையைப் வெச்சா இளநீரு; பிள்ளையைப் பெத்தா கண்ணீரு!”
உண்மைதான் உரைத்துள்ளார்! அது மிகக் கசப்புத்தான்!

தன் வாழ்க்கைத் துணையைத் தானே தேடணுமாம் – பெற்றோர்
தன் வேலை வளர்த்ததுடன் தீர்ந்த்ததென எண்ணணுமாம்!

நம் இனத்தில் நல்ல பெண்ணிருந்தால் கூறு என்றால்,
எவ்வினமாயின் என்ன? உன் வேலையைப் பார் என்கின்றார்!

தன்னைப் பேணிய பெற்றோரை விடவும் – தான் அந்த
மண்ணில் கண்ட மடந்தை உயர்வாகப் போகின்றாள்!

இந்நாளில் பெண்களுக்கோ அமெரிக்க மாப்பிள்ளை வேணும்;
எந்நாளும் மாமன் மாமி இந்தியாவில் இருக்கவேணும்!

பெண்கள் மட்டும்தான் பெற்றோரைப் பேணுகின்றார் – இல்லை!
பெண்கள் தன் பெற்றோரை மட்டும் பேணுகின்றார்!!

சாண்பிள்ளை ஆனாலும் ஆண் பிள்ளை என்று எண்ணித்
தான் மகிழ்ந்த காலமெல்லாம் மலை ஏறிப் போயிற்று!

பிற் காலத்தில் தன் தேவைகளைத் தன் பிள்ளை கவனிப்பான் என
எக்காலத்திலும் கற்பனை வேண்டாம்! அறிவீரே! பெற்றோரே!

தன் உழைப்பால் சேர்த்த செல்வம் தானம் தருமம் போகத்
தனக்கென்றே வைத்தவர்தான் கலிநாளில் பிழைத்திடுவர்!!

eace:

Society is always changing, Smt. Raji Ram, may be very imperceptibly, at times. Two or three generations ago, a tabra boy choosing outside the sub-caste created similar laments and heart-breaks as is oozing out of the above post, imho. The old people of those days used to utter the name of the new dil and then add, in hushed tone, "namma aaLkkaL alla - vaDaman, brahaccaraNam, aShTasahasram," etc., as the case may be.

A smarta iyer boy -iyengar girl marriage used to be viewed as a sure humiliation for the boy's parents. But our Tabra society has been able to withstand all these cultural shocks, learn good (as also bad) lessons from all these "shocking cases" and emerge successful. I therefore am hopeful that even if our boys marry foreign girls or indian girls born and brought up abroad, etc., we will ultimately learn to adapt to it and also eventually adopt it as a salutary practice.

One of my colleagues, a conservative tabra from Mayavaram side has/had 3 daughters. Only the youngest married, a Britisher, love marriage. My colleague and his wife had settled down permanently in US with their youngest daughter and British MaappiLLai, and were very happy about it, when they visited me more than 15 years ago. (I don't know about them now, no contact.) But he had turned into a complete foreigner in every bit of life. That may not be possible for most of us and so, it is our non-adaptability which is to be blamed, imho.

 

[Raji Ram]

Respected Sangom Sir,

My post was the outcome of the lament of many parents in my circle of family and friends. This has made me think practically

and decide to opt for a senior citizen home on any day! People who do not have citizenship in the USA can not think of settling

down with their children who live in the USA with a green card, anyway!

Regards.......

 

[Raghy]

Greetings.

Is this thread focused on parents living in India and children living in USA?

 

[Raghy]

Sowbagyavathy Raji Ram, Greetings.

"தென்னையைப் பெத்தா இளநீரு; பிள்ளையப் பெத்தா கண்ணீரு" although rhymes very nicely, can't be accepted. In India, majority of the parents rule the children with an iron fist. They think, they own the children. They expect their children to put the parent's desire ahead of anything else. Children seldom have the freedom to chosse what they want to study; they have to abide by the parent's desire only. Unfortunately, I was exactly such a parent for many years; I didn't even realise my mistake! That is inspite of going through a bitter childhood.

I understand the above stanza like this - 'when the coconut tree was planted, coconut water was taken from the coconut tree; similarly, from a son/daughter, the youngsters tears was takenout'. The tears belonged to the children, not the parents.

Just because children choose their partners it does not mean they don't have respect for the parents; nor it means they choose a random girl over the parents. If the parents extend a unselfish loving and caring relationship, the son and the daughter-in-law won't even think of going on their own!

I request you to kindly expose both possibilities, please. Thank you.

Cheers!

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

I was in India till 2009 and staying in my own house in Nanganallur.
After my wife expired in Feb,2003,I continued to stay alone.After sometime,my second daughter,her husband(my younger sister's son),their children moved to my house and stayed with me.After they purchased a flat nearby,they wanted to move to their flat
and I used to visit them daily for my lunch,dinner etc.In the meanwhile my son had been requesting me to visit USA every year(I had visa for 10 years).I visited in 2003-2004 and stayed for five months.Since I was not able to visit USA every year,my son suggested to take Green card and shift to USA and stay with him.I came in April,2009.Here life is very peaceful for me,though I cannot freely go anyware as I used to do in India.I have to depend on my son or DIL to take me out.Persons above 65 get free medical service(with certain restrictions).It is difficult to get appointment of Doctors.You get only a date after a month or so.The doctor gives you medicine for three months and the next consultation could be only after three months.Of course you can go to Emergency and take treatment.It will be costly and someone(son or daughter) has to be with you.It will affect their work schedule.
You cannot freely go to any Doctor on payment of consultation fees as you do in India.
Though I am able to maintain a normal health(I take medicines for H/T ,BP,and for reduction of bad chlostrol being a Heart Patient),sometimes I feel India is far far better for aged people like me for medical treatment.Recently I saw one aged person
from India to stay with his son for a period of six months.He wanted to apply for green card and in that context I was requested to meet him and explain the procedure.In the meantime,he developed serious health problem(reports showed that his kidneys are failing.He had no insurance cover.They had to call 911 and shift him to hospital.The treatment was very costly.The only son,poor chap,had to spend all his savings of a few years.As soon as his health improved,his DIL accompanied him to India,left him with his daughter and returned after a week.
I can acquire US citizenship after a few years.After seeing many cases of health deteroration after you become aged,I have started thinking whether it is worth acquiring US Citizenship.After becoming US citizen,one also gets OCS(Overseas Citizen of India) passport from GOI with lifelong Visa which enable a person to stay in India permanently and visit USA occasionally.This is not advantageous in my case as I will lose the benefit of Senior citizen in India.
I do not have any problem of staying with my son,DIL.We are a well knit family.
Here I find indian parents who came to USA long back prefer to stay alone.Children live separately and visit parents occasionally.
In our house,We have a nanny(from Central America)living in USA from her childhood.
She is having two sons and one daughter.First son was married,had one young son.Wife has divorced him.The son stays with mother for some months,with father for some months.He has married an american lady for a second time and so far no issues.The daughter has married an Italian and has one daughter.The second son aged 29 is still not married.He was having a girl friend- philiphino girl(a divorcee with 7 year boy).Recently he left her and taken another girl as girlfriend.The mother((Nanny)is worried that she may have to vacate her apartments once her second son is married.After marriage he will stay withhis wife and nanny has to move to a single room as she cannot afford to pay rent for a two room apartment.
Recently she had eye problem.One eye was fully red.On our advice she went to emergency in a Private Hospital.Her B/P was checked and some medication prescribed.Though she is a US citizen,she had to pay $400 to the Hospital.
Here medical expenses for Us citizens also very costly.She was commenting that she could have checked her B/P fee of cost in any Pharmacy.
I feel the aged Indian parents are in a better position as compared to their counterpart Americans.So it is advisable in their own personal interest(for aged Indian Parents) to keep peace at home when they stay with their son/daughter whether in India or abroad.

 

[sangom]

Sowbagyavathy Raji Ram, Greetings.

"தென்னையைப் பெத்தா இளநீரு; பிள்ளையப் பெத்தா கண்ணீரு" although rhymes very nicely, can't be accepted. In India, majority of the parents rule the children with an iron fist. They think, they own the children. They expect their children to put the parent's desire ahead of anything else. Children seldom have the freedom to chosse what they want to study; they have to abide by the parent's desire only. Unfortunately, I was exactly such a parent for many years; I didn't even realise my mistake! That is inspite of going through a bitter childhood.

I understand the above stanza like this - 'when the coconut tree was planted, coconut water was taken from the coconut tree; similarly, from a son/daughter, the youngsters tears was takenout'. The tears belonged to the children, not the parents.

Just because children choose their partners it does not mean they don't have respect for the parents; nor it means they choose a random girl over the parents. If the parents extend a unselfish loving and caring relationship, the son and the daughter-in-law won't even think of going on their own!

I request you to kindly expose both possibilities, please. Thank you.

Cheers!

Dear Raghy,

The mil-dil relationship is, somehow, always antagonistic. Like you say, some of our tabra mothers have iron fist over their sons and, more commonly, an emotional-blackmail-able situation is created very shrewdly by the mothers. But there are very simple and not so cunning mothers. I know one such very closely. Her husband is a crorepati and a doctor. Her only son is married to a girl from my place. They are three daughters (only) to the parents, father a medical doctor and mother again, a very "OTTavaay" type of person.

This girl, youngest of the three daughters looked so fragile and weak, she would not be able to even speak very audibly. The mother-in-law was extremely happy that she got such a nice dil when the marriage was over about 10 or 12 years ago. But that puny, frail girl has now become a real terror in her "pukkaam"; she orders her 79 years old fil as though he is just a servant and finds fault with him for all the mistakes he does because he has advanced Parkinson's disease. Her husband tried to reason with her, control her and even complained to his fil. But the peruchaali that he is, the fil advises the daughter publicly to be a very obedient door-mat like dil, but I sincerely feel it is all a facade so that there is no rift because he knows his daughter (her husband) will inherit huge wealth and he and his wife will be able to enjoy all that in their old age.

Now the mother-in-law has become a virtual servant. She was telling that any whichever way you go, you will be found fault with and rebuked very stringently. One instance she told was that the grandson (8 years) is too fond of chocolates; if the grandmother tries to control his intake, then it becomes cruelty to child, but if she does not object, then she is not being careful about the child's health. She said, என்ன செய்தால் சண்டை கிடைக்காமல் இருக்கும் என்னே தெரியல்லை. அவனுக்கு (பிள்ளை) தெரிஞ்சால் அவளெ சண்தை பிடிப்பன். அப்பவும் நான் சிண்டு முடிஞ்சதாகத்தான் எடுத்துப்பள். கடவுள் சட்டுப்புட்டுன கொண்டு போக மாட்டேங்கறார். This coming from a lady who was once upon a time, enjoying the respect of so many people.

This is the reality, more or less in many tabra houses, I think though each family tries to keep this truth under wraps, as best as they can.

My son lives in London. His neighbour is an old lady, about 80 years or more, when we visited him 8 years ago. She lives all alone even now. Then she used to drive the car like it was an aeroplane (so fast) etc. When I enquired about her recently, my son said she has become too old, but has to fend for herself. Her daughter who lives in London (some other suburb) comes only on mothers' day and performs the required formalities but during the rest of the year, she is on her own. Like very many old people we used to see in supermarkets and shopping malls, these old people come, congregate there, eat some snacks and take a taxi or something to go back home late in the evening by sunset. Old age homes there are not affordable to many I was told, nor many like to live there. Hence, the attitudinal problems seem to be there in UK also and perhaps in US also, such problems are there, despite Shri Nara's observations to the contrary.

In India my generation was perhaps unique—we took care of the parents as per the old world norm, brought up our children as per the old custom - looking after their needs till they could complete their chosen educational path and start earning some income, but we have to face our old age according to the western mores. Similarly, the lady whom I referred to had to serve her in-laws according to the old custom but when it comes to her turn, the world has turned upside down and she suffers. Like a mridangam this in-between generation gets beaten on both sides!

 

[Yamaka]

Sowbagyavathy Raji Ram, Greetings.

"தென்னையைப் பெத்தா இளநீரு; பிள்ளையப் பெத்தா கண்ணீரு" although rhymes very nicely, can't be accepted. In India, majority of the parents rule the children with an iron fist. They think, they own the children. They expect their children to put the parent's desire ahead of anything else. Children seldom have the freedom to chosse what they want to study; they have to abide by the parent's desire only. Unfortunately, I was exactly such a parent for many years; I didn't even realise my mistake! That is inspite of going through a bitter childhood.

I understand the above stanza like this - 'when the coconut tree was planted, coconut water was taken from the coconut tree; similarly, from a son/daughter, the youngsters tears was takenout'. The tears belonged to the children, not the parents.

Just because children choose their partners it does not mean they don't have respect for the parents; nor it means they choose a random girl over the parents. If the parents extend a unselfish loving and caring relationship, the son and the daughter-in-law won't even think of going on their own!

I request you to kindly expose both possibilities, please. Thank you.

Cheers!

Dear Raghy:

Very nice post. I agree with you.

However, parents also shed "Aanatha Kaneer" when the kids achieve the unthinkable!

Cheers.

 

[Yamaka]

Dear Krish Sir: Ref your post 16.

Very nice post. I get to know you more.

Yes, in the US, healthcare is very costly, and I believe in CA you have generous healthcare for people like you.

In most other States things are much harder for "dependents or retired people from foreign country - not paid into the system via payroll tax".

My father refused to come to US because he thought loneliness and lack of language (he is a village man w/o knowing a word of English) will kill him here!

Wish you a healthy, fruitful stay in the US.

Regards.

Y

 

[kunjuppu]

sangom,

your post #17.

why are the parents not altering their will. all they need to tell the son and dil, that let us part. apparently since the dil does not want to take care of the fil and mil,

these two can buy the best care with their money, with a little bit of effort, and leave the money to charity after they are gone.

i know it itakes guts, but there is only so muc insult that one can put up with.

much as i take girls' sides, i cannot tolerate gross negligence and arrogance.

 

[B.Krishnamurthy]

Dear Thiru.Yamaka,
Thank you for your generous compliment.I was told the facility available in California state regarding Health care is far better than many states in USA.In Texas this facility is not available as one elderly gentleman from Texas wants to move to an old age home in India only for health reasons.Otherwise he is very comfortable in USA with his son.
Of late the financial position of our Almaeda county being not so good,they are withdrawing many existing facilities.Recently they have stopped Dental treatment.
I was getting 'Lipitol' for Cholestrol control.Last month they told me that the Insurance company rules do not allow issue of 'Lipitor'.Another medicine' 'Simvastin' has been prescribed.Doctor has asked me to take minimum dosage and go for blood test after 45 days.On the basis of laboratory report,she will prescribe the correct dosage.In USA,the medicine(aspirin family)for thinning of blood is reported to be very costly and not available free for Medi-Cal patients.I was advised to bring the medicine from India.I keep stock of all medicines (which I was taking in India) as standby for emergency.This facility is to be renewed on yearly basis.Last year they refused to renew on the plea that I was unable to
give independant proof that I have no regular income in USA.Subsequently on giving individual declaration they renewed.This took more than 2 months.

Immigrants from other countries who landed in USA prior to 1994 are getting monthly$600 under Social Security Scheme.Persons who migrated thereafter are not eligible.Earlier their cases were considered on individual merit basis after they have stayed for a minimum of three years.Now the period of stay has been increased to 10 years.
I was told that Government Schools(where fee structure is low or nil)are extremely good and parents generally put their kids only in such Schools.Here the Govt Schools
are reported to be not so good and every parent wants to put their children in reputed private Schools like 'Challenger'.Monthly fees for each child may be anything like $1200 to $1500.

PS:-I mentioned about your family to a Muslim girl from Annanagar,Chennai living here.
She informed me that only Muslims from Bangladesh keep the name as"Habiba".
Since I am not aware of Muslim culture,I just listened to her.Even if you are a practicing Muslim(only Atheist for this Forum),I very much like your frankness and openness.In my view God gives everyone equal measure of Happiness.Some get happiness because of Children(just like your case),others for other reasons.
A person who is also happy for someother reason feels bad that his children could not
reach that level of merit and so becomes unhappy.If you keenly observe everyone's life,You can notice this aspect.Even the Nanny in our house often praises indian culture of children looking after aged parents(seeing me as an example)while I envy her in other aspects.This is the essence of life.

 

[kunjuppu]

BK,

there is another viewpoint to the whole USA healthcare (which i think sucks.. living in canada, with universal health care, and any citizen 65 or over is eligible for free prescription, any citizen, immigrant or refugee is eligible for free medical care + hospitalization - but that is another story).

back to the usa.

the tax payers foot the medical bills of the poor and the 65+ aged. it is a very handsome privilige. my own uncle waited till the day he passed 65, and was treated to an orthopaedic surgery which went for a month. god knows how much it cost.

i had another uncle who came from india, had a stroke, and we thought his children would have to pay.thanks to some loophole the usa government picked the bill.

my neighbour in chennai, while visiting his son, had a stroke. was hospitalized for a month. the son sold the extra apartment in chennai to pay the bills.

those who were born and bred in the usa, now look upon immigrants, who spend a few years or land at 65, and 'usurp' their privileged healthcare for free. to them it is unfair.

in other places, there is simply no money to pay for the entitlements. americans like to have all the government services that canadians have. but are unwilling to pay the taxes that go along with it.

moreover, the usa medical system is so corrupt, with the doctors and pharmaceutical companies and the insurance business in cohoots to fleece the public, for what is perhaps the most expensive but not necessarily the best (not even close) system in the world.

the rich in usa get the best care in the world. the usa is the only 1st world country, where the people sell their houses is to pay medical bills.

california, i am surprised that you had a good health care so far. while it is potentially a rich state, the whites basically do not want to pay the schoold fees and medical care for the millions of illegals who flock there, and who, every middle class family employs at low wages, to babysit, garden or elder care.

looking down from the 49th parallel (the latitude that divides canada from the usa) we wonder, how this giant elephant is slipping in its feet. we used to have a moderator KRS - who consistently believed that canada's health care was 'socialized' and useless. this is the propaganda that was waged when obama opted initially for one payment one care doing away with insurance and pharmaceutical companies in the picture.

in canada, the doctor, is set one fee for each type of diagnosis, which he bills the government. the government buys in bulk from all over the world, wherever drugs are cheap (many from india or generic products made locally). in the usa i think there is a bureaucracy which the doctor has to face - how much to bill the insurance co, govt and so on).

i do not know what the solution is..for all this mess. meanwhile, there is a law that the emergency dept in any hospital cannot chase away a patient who needs care. so the emergencies are clogged, with chronic care patients who keep coming back.

there are flaws in canadian system. but it is more similar to europe. where the attitude is that good medical care, should be an entitlement, served equally and freely to all the citizens.

i wish you good health, and pray for a better usa economy, so that the funds to the governments start flowing in again, and the normal functionalities are restored.

best wishes...

ps..in india it is equally bad. the rich get good care. the poor none. even the employees of apollo hospital do not get any priviliges or discounts for their services at the hospital. you work there for others, but cannot afford it yourself. ...

 

[Nara]

.....those who were born and bred in the usa, now look upon immigrants, who spend a few years or land at 65, and 'usurp' their privileged healthcare for free. to them it is unfair. ...

I agree with almost all of what K had to say, I do agree a single-payer system not unlike the Canadian system, or that of Japan or even Taiwan, is far better than what we have in the U.S. But, in what way is that better is to be understood clearly.

The health-care system in the U.S. is among the best in the world, if not the best. The problem is how it is paid for. The funding system is so screwed up that we pay at least twice as much and yet manage only half the overall, aggregate, health measures. In other words, if you have good insurance or other means of paying for it, then you get the best care anywhere. Or else, you are screwed, i.e. either you get the care and are ruined financially, or ruined health-wise.

If you have a job with good healthcare, you have affordable and top notch healthcare anywhere in the world. If you are out of work, or if the job offers lousy health insurance if any, then you are made to choose between good health and a reasonable middle-class life, and that is unconscionable. BTW, Obama was never for a single-payer system, he was not even for individually mandated insurance plan, Hilary's medical plan was much better. But even with respect to the modest plan Obama campaigned on, the messiah of hope sold his adoring voters down the river, but I digress.

US is also very generous with immigrants. Even if you are a brand new citizen at age 65, never having contributed a single penny to the Medicare or the Social Security, the system insists on offering you Medicare for free, and pay you a monthly subsistence allowance and an additional payment for rent if you can show you have no income or other assets. Many Indian parents, with their children earning in mid to high six-figures, take advantage of this. Is it any wonder that a middle-class working family struggling to make ends meet, ever so precariously at the edges of the precipice of financial ruin, take offense to these prosperous immigrants taking advantage of the rules meant for the truly poor and suffering Americans?

All said and some, I am with K, the answer is not to pit one group against another, a single-payer system of one kind or another will be less expensive, will cover everyone, and there will be no scope for animosity towards anyone, poor or immigrant. But, the two parties, Democrat and Republican, are beholden to corporate interests. They will never come up with anything that truly benefits ordinary folks, not Obama, not Hillary, let alone Mitt.

In the near future, rich people, those with steady jobs, and those with affluent Indian children will continue to have the best healthcare available anywhere in the planet. The rest, will have to wait until they can wake up from their hypnotic stupor that the one-part system of the U.S. with two names, Republican and Democratic, is part of what makes them exceptional among nations on earth (Y ).

Cheers!

 

[Yamaka]

Dear N: Ref your post 23

I agree with most of what you said.

Knowing how difficult it is to organize a Third Party (ask Perot who got almost 20% of popular votes, but zero electoral delegate in 1992), what do you suggest as the SOLUTION, if you hate the Democrats and Republicans?

You saw what happened in the Senate for passing the PPACA in 2009 (the so called Obamacare derisively by the Repubs), and BHO was forced to spend all his political capital... he has none left to do anything about the Dream Act and other initiatives that he promised.

Yes, we spend nearly $8800 per person per year on healthcare whereas Britain pays about half of this per person per year to get the same health outcome..we leave about 30 million citizens out in the cold not covered. Our healthcare delivery has overuse, abuse, waste and fraud... tons of money is going into black hole that no one knows how to stop it!

Hopefully, the SCOTUS will not trash the entire PPACA next year.. I hope they will follow what the DC Appellate Court did recently: Larry Silberman a Republcan Judge upheld the Individual Mandate for a sound reason.

This will allow the uninsured 30 million people to be covered by health insurance and the so-called Pre-Existing Conditions will be removed.

Wait & watch

 

[Yamaka]

"US is also very generous with immigrants. Even if you are a brand new citizen at age 65, never having contributed a single penny to the Medicare or the Social Security, the system insists on offering you Medicare for free, and pay you a monthly subsistence allowance and an additional payment for rent if you can show you have no income or other assets. Many Indian parents, with their children earning in mid to high six-figures, take advantage of this. Is it any wonder that a middle-class working family struggling to make ends meet, ever so precariously at the edges of the precipice of financial ruin, take offense to these prosperous immigrants taking advantage of the rules meant for the truly poor and suffering Americans?"- Nara post 23

Dear N:

I have the following doubts/questions about what you said above -

1. As poor, these new immigrants at age 65, will be covered by MEDICAID, not Medicare. For Medicaid to kick in, their sponsors must be poor also. Am I wrong?

For Medicare, Part A one should have paid into the system at work. For Part B, & D we must pay the premium.. the poor new immigrant is paid by the Medicaid. Am I wrong?

2. The monthly subsistence should also come from Medicaid... It can't come from SS. Am I wrong?

3. If the sponsors - the children of this immigrant -make good money in high six-figures, how could they qualify for Medicaid? Here in TX, people say it is impossible to get Medicaid if you are a new immigrant. Am I wrong?

How does this work in your State? I know Medicaid CA is very generous.

Cheers.